Nintendo NX Will Use A Pascal Nvidia Tegra Chip

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

Take a look at the official statement about the 16FF+ node from TSMC

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/16nm.htm

TSMC’s 16FF+ (FinFET Plus) technology can provide above 65 percent higher speed, around 2 times the density, or 70 percent less power than its 28HPM technology. Comparing with 20 (nm) SoC technology, 16FF+ provides extra 40% higher speed and 60% power saving.

40 percent of Shield TV's 21 watts is 8.4 watts which is OK for 8 to 9 inch tablet and still too high for candy bar smart phones.

5 to 6 inch candy bar smart phones are about 1 to 5 watts.

Did you just say "candy bar" phones in 2016? Uh....

M-moving on from that, the 10-inch Pixel C tablet uses an X1 with the GPU clocked down to 850MHz, and only consumes 14W, screen and all. NX would have a much a smaller, lower-resolution screen, and overall could probably match it.

Note why I stated 8 to 9 inch tablet not 10.2 inch Pixel C tablet.

Change candybar with Phablet.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Google-Pixel-C-Tablet-Review.158868.0.html

The price for Pixel C is $499 USD for 32 GB model https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c

40 percent faster speed yields around 56,931 points.

Nexus 9 with K1 is only 35 percent slower.

For comparison

40 percent of 14 watts is 5.6 watts... getting close.

My estimate for NX, it's far from XBO.

You're forgetting about the decrease in power consumption from going to a screen with a much smaller size and resolution. Factoring in that, it gets under 5W for sure. Also, from what I've heard, the X1's GPU uses just 1.5W when clocked at 500MHz, so a Pasal-based one should be 700MHz for 1.5W.

And yes, it's obviously going to be much slower than XB1 in even the best case.

Since you're assuming that there won't be difference between it being docked and on battery, that's extremely optimistic. Think 150-300 GFLOPS.

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

Take a look at the official statement about the 16FF+ node from TSMC

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/16nm.htm

TSMC’s 16FF+ (FinFET Plus) technology can provide above 65 percent higher speed, around 2 times the density, or 70 percent less power than its 28HPM technology. Comparing with 20 (nm) SoC technology, 16FF+ provides extra 40% higher speed and 60% power saving.

40 percent of Shield TV's 21 watts is 8.4 watts which is OK for 8 to 9 inch tablet and still too high for candy bar smart phones.

5 to 6 inch candy bar smart phones are about 1 to 5 watts.

Did you just say "candy bar" phones in 2016? Uh....

M-moving on from that, the 10-inch Pixel C tablet uses an X1 with the GPU clocked down to 850MHz, and only consumes 14W, screen and all. NX would have a much a smaller, lower-resolution screen, and overall could probably match it.

Note why I stated 8 to 9 inch tablet not 10.2 inch Pixel C tablet.

Change candybar with Phablet.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Google-Pixel-C-Tablet-Review.158868.0.html

The price for Pixel C is $499 USD for 32 GB model https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c

40 percent faster speed yields around 56,931 points.

Nexus 9 with K1 is only 35 percent slower.

For comparison

40 percent of 14 watts is 5.6 watts... getting close.

My estimate for NX, it's far from XBO.

You're forgetting about the decrease in power consumption from going to a screen with a much smaller size and resolution. Factoring in that, it gets under 5W for sure. Also, from what I've heard, the X1's GPU uses just 1.5W when clocked at 500MHz, so a Pasal-based one should be 700MHz for 1.5W.

And yes, it's obviously going to be much slower than XB1 in even the best case.

1.5Watts at 500 Mhz? Where's it's 5 to 6 inch mobile phone solution?

Multiple mobile phone vendors' avoidance of TX1 indicates inferior lower power handling.

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

Take a look at the official statement about the 16FF+ node from TSMC

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/16nm.htm

TSMC’s 16FF+ (FinFET Plus) technology can provide above 65 percent higher speed, around 2 times the density, or 70 percent less power than its 28HPM technology. Comparing with 20 (nm) SoC technology, 16FF+ provides extra 40% higher speed and 60% power saving.

40 percent of Shield TV's 21 watts is 8.4 watts which is OK for 8 to 9 inch tablet and still too high for candy bar smart phones.

5 to 6 inch candy bar smart phones are about 1 to 5 watts.

Did you just say "candy bar" phones in 2016? Uh....

M-moving on from that, the 10-inch Pixel C tablet uses an X1 with the GPU clocked down to 850MHz, and only consumes 14W, screen and all. NX would have a much a smaller, lower-resolution screen, and overall could probably match it.

Note why I stated 8 to 9 inch tablet not 10.2 inch Pixel C tablet.

Change candybar with Phablet.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Google-Pixel-C-Tablet-Review.158868.0.html

The price for Pixel C is $499 USD for 32 GB model https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c

40 percent faster speed yields around 56,931 points.

Nexus 9 with K1 is only 35 percent slower.

For comparison

40 percent of 14 watts is 5.6 watts... getting close.

My estimate for NX, it's far from XBO.

You're forgetting about the decrease in power consumption from going to a screen with a much smaller size and resolution. Factoring in that, it gets under 5W for sure. Also, from what I've heard, the X1's GPU uses just 1.5W when clocked at 500MHz, so a Pasal-based one should be 700MHz for 1.5W.

And yes, it's obviously going to be much slower than XB1 in even the best case.

1.5Watts? Where's it's 5 to 6 inch mobile phone solution?

Please tell me you're not going to use a logical fallacy to prove a point. You're better than that.

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

Note why I stated 8 to 9 inch tablet not 10.2 inch Pixel C tablet.

Change candybar with Phablet.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Google-Pixel-C-Tablet-Review.158868.0.html

The price for Pixel C is $499 USD for 32 GB model https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c

40 percent faster speed yields around 56,931 points.

Nexus 9 with K1 is only 35 percent slower.

For comparison

40 percent of 14 watts is 5.6 watts... getting close.

My estimate for NX, it's far from XBO.

You're forgetting about the decrease in power consumption from going to a screen with a much smaller size and resolution. Factoring in that, it gets under 5W for sure. Also, from what I've heard, the X1's GPU uses just 1.5W when clocked at 500MHz, so a Pasal-based one should be 700MHz for 1.5W.

And yes, it's obviously going to be much slower than XB1 in even the best case.

1.5Watts? Where's it's 5 to 6 inch mobile phone solution?

Please tell me you're not going to use a logical fallacy to prove a point. You're better than that.

My logic is backed by development patterns from multiple phone vendors.

Tegra X1 already has aggressive clock gating/clock speed throttling when it's idling or low compute usage.

At idle mode with max aggressive clock gating/clock speed throttling, Shield TV consumes around 3.2 watts without a screen.

The NX console will be released first in March 2017.

http://nintendonews.com/news/general/nintendo-nx-home-console/

@ronvalencia: The 1.5W is just for the GPU itself. It's not including the rest of the SOC.

The system doesn't operate with just the GPU and system power consumption has double importance with handheld device form factors.

Qualcomm/Apple ARM SoC competitors reaches sub-1 watts. If TX1 is king/god for handheld devices, where TX1's 5 to 6 inch smart phone solution?

20 watts to 14 watts = 30 percent power consumption reduction.

http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/Google+Pixel+C/review

Pixel C's Ice Storm Graphics score is 52,457 (~14 watts, 10.2 screen tablet form factor)

Shield TV's Ice Storm Graphics score is 61,735 (~21 watts, lite desktop form factor)

14 percent reduction in performance.

@ronvalencia: The fact that no TX1 phone exists isn't proof that making a TX1-based phone is impossible. :/

Also, again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Out of that 14W, the screen is probably using close to half.

Your arguments are not proof for 5 to 6 inch mobile phone considerations.

So, what are you guessing for NX then? 1 SM at 200MHz for 51 GFLOPS?

My arguments are for the upper limit expectations i.e. NX has to beat Microsoft Surface Pro 4 before it beats XBO or PS4.

I'm not going to be box in with a specific estimate.

My view, NX is "Wii U 2.0" with a proper mobility like an 8 inch Tablet and Unreal Engine 4 support.

So, basically, you're just here to state the obvious and you don't actually know what you're talking about.

@techhog89:

Look's like I read Ron's post wrong.

Yeah, X2 at 3 watts would yield less than 400 Gflops. Well, at least its still a huge upgrade over the 3DS.

I have already stated my TX1 16 nm FinFET estimate which is based from TSMC's guidelines.

I do not need to repeat myself.

Your 500 Mhz argument is amateurish i.e. mobile SoCs has very aggressive clock speed throttling. You think TX1 stays at 850 Mhz or 1 Ghz all the time?

I'm not Nintendo i.e. NX is either 5-to-6 inch smart phone or 7-to-8 inch tablet power consumption profiles. It depends on the size of the device and battery pack i.e. Pixel C's battery pack is not cheap.

A modern chip design has multiple p-states. A system integrator could limit the upper p-state to reach a certain power consumption and performance goals.

Guys... it doesn't matter what the specs are. If it runs Grid it will always have access to the latest and greatest in 3rd party content. Nintendo has already shown that they can make a game work on a potato. Between them and Grid they are fine. NX will be awesome.

One more month to go...till Nintendo release info on the NX..officially? :P

Hmm people are mentioning short battery life a lot... But pascal is very tiny, right? I thought it was pretty efficient compared to older tech.

Reminder, Nvidia has their Q2 earnings call in about an hour.

http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/n6phuy56

If they happen to mention a new design win, that would be almost a confirmation of Tegra in NX.