My grandmother is deeply disturbed by the removal of Nazi symbols from games

My grandmother is deeply disturbed by the removal of Nazi symbols from games. My grandfather was at Omaha Beach Normandy. My grandmothers brother was at Pearl Harbor. My grandmother worked in a munitions factory during WW2. She made parts for the bombs dropped on Japan. My uncle died in Vietnam.

I was showing my grandmother how they removed Nazi symbols from WW2 games. She said it's historically inaccurate and shouldn't be allowed. She say's it demeans everything they fought for and distorts history.

My grandparents knew who they were fighting. They're proud of what they fought for.

Wolfenstein didn't remove them.

Also, they do it to either appease the German government or a certain side of politics that runs rampant.

@getyeryayasout: thirsty boy

According to EA, your grandmother fought on the beaches at Normandy alongside your grandfather.

lol, nailed it.

Different people will have different perspectives on this, especially people such as your grandparents who were alive at the time. The laws concerning Nazi symbolism in Europe at least, are in place for a reason. One of them being that others who are still alive today and suffered back then under the Nazis could find them distressing or offensive.

Of course they're not likely to go out and buy a ww2 game to play like us gamers would. However the risk of advertising or word of mouth bringing back traumatic memories for them is not worth what little authenticity you'd gain by including swastikas and such imo. It's not like people don't know who they are shooting when they play Call of Duty, Wolfenstein or whatever anyway.

@mandzilla: It was over 80 years ago there can't be many left. All my relatives that where alive during the war in Germany are dead. That's a terrible reasoning.

I agree with your grandmother. Sadly, too many people are trying to expand their safe space into everyone else's spaces.

Doesn't matter if there aren't many left, it's still an extremely taboo subject in Europe.

@so_hai: Fucking lol haha

Its just so the games sell better in Germany. Its nothign to do with sensitivity, its all to do with sales figures.

And she's a lesbian.

Exactly. It's actually very dangerous if it gets a good a handle on things.

LOL ! Nice made up story you got there xD

Are you that afraid of expressing your own opinion that you have to put words in your grandmothers mouth ?

@mandzilla: i get the not being able to usse the symbol in a current situation but its history, how do they teach about ww2 in school

I don't feel it is my place to comment on this as an American.

I mean look at the debate we have concerning the confederate flag. Now imagine if the Confederacy committed mass, organized genocide against black people and, in addition to fighting against the Union, also invaded Mexico and Canada. We would not want to see the Confederate flag even more than we don't want to see it now. It probably would be illegal to wave it around.

So while I can't really sympathize with them, I guess I can imagine why they don't want to see Nazi flags and symbols and shit. I don't think we are being ignorant about history when we don't show them, we are just being conscious of people's feelings (which, contrary to what people think, does matter on occasion).

Outside of a handful of crazies (Holocaust deniers, skinheads, etc) I think you would be hard-pressed to find any German (or European) that doesn't know what a Nazi is, doesn't know what a Swastika is, and doesn't know what atrocities were committed. We aren't going to put swastikas back in games and suddenly some kid is going to go "Gee, what's that?"; everyone knows what that is.

I agree, videogames should be a safe space for grandmothers.

My grandmother hates Wolfenstein too. Removing the flags is not historically accurate, she says. Plus there's too many women and blacks, she hates it too. Yet she's fine with the Nazi base on the moon.

My grandmother is a moron.

I don't play games for history lessons and your grandma is not particular smart if she is offended by this. I reckon your entire story is bullshit but hey this is Internet, my grandma fought Hitler in hand to hand combat.

I played your grandma in CoD WW2 and she wouldn't stop griefing me, dude. Heard she was a gamergater too. Your grandma is toxic, son.

OK. Thanks for sharing.

Your Grandmother sounds awesome and I agree with her.

Most of Europe and USSR was victims (lost material wealth, lost land sovereignty, etc) of the Nazis which is different for US and UK which fought them with intact sovereignty. Sometimes, people forgets USSR also invaded Poland with Nazi Germany, hence continuing relationship problems between Poland and Russia. There's no apology from Russians on invading Poland.

My grandparents fought against Imperial Japan (Pacific theater).

Historical accuracy > snowflakes' feelings

It has nothing to do with sales, you idiot. Nazi symbols are factually illegal here. Selling games with them would indeed be a crime. How can anybody be so uneducated?

On the other hands those symbols are perfectly fine when used in forms of art which is why they are allowed in movies for example. Movies count as art, games don't. It's completely ridiculous but doesn't change the fact that as of right now it's against the law to show them in games.

Devs remove this for marketing reasons. Germany doesn't ban the game outright, but the game gets less marketing there, which means less sales.

You should probably write to your country representatives that censor games instead of making a thread on system wars.

Why would they remove them? Are we trying to forget what happened and who was responsible?

It's a part of our history, for better or worse. Don't sweep it under the rug, what the hell...

lol XD

so the game is a simulator?

Is she proud about that?

Your grandmother is right. The more we try to sugar coat history, the more likely we are to repeat its mistakes. Most people live in a fantasy land where nothing bad can ever happen, but the truth is that Germany was a democracy and Hitler was elected Chancellor. We're trying so hard to propagate this Walt Disney version of things and we're leaving the door wide open for people to distort and even romanticize the Third Reich as a result.

Your story sounds like fake news.

Odd thread, the American at right spearheaded recruiting millennials on this anti-PC gaming issue, they also got offended by Wolfensteins Nazi killing. Offended by Nazis portrayed as subhuman trash, offended Nazis aren't properly vilified, make up your minds why don't you.

I'm Southern GA, I for one never care about Confederate flag issue. I just wish us Americans can just move on and not looking back on the past. The U.S flag is more then enough, I just wish my countryman would use what we have.

advocating for forgetting history?

that is scary stuff

@tryit: Some things are better off leaving the past behind. Moving forward is what we as Humans should be doing now in this day.

I guess you never heard the phrase 'if we dont learn from our past we are doomed to re-create it'

and other various takes on the same phrase.

Tell yer got damn granny to shut her trap!

For once I actually agree.

Which I find it then hilarious that "Creative Freedom" allows for Nazi's to be removed from a game... Advertised as SET IN WW2

Isn't this in Germany only?

'creative freedom'

and

'I think the developer should be a history teacher just because I feel like it'

and

'dont forget the past'

are all different things.

its not the job of the game developer to be a history teacher

Your right, doesn't stop anyone complaining to get it fixed though.

Obviously not in this title, but if you don't speak up, you don't get.

'fixed'?

look I have given serious though to making my own game and I am a developer by trade. If I ever did that I would be good god damned if I would let anyone tell me what I can and can not put in my game outside the law.

if I want to make a gaming version of 'The Man in the High Castle' then I am going to do it. lets see if you understand why I used that example, I doubt it

That's nothing! My grandmother was Hitler.

I find so stupid when these people complain about political, historical or anything in those games...

It's like you people can't play anything that makes you think about what you're playing or seeing.

It's pretty sad actually.

I live in a place with plenty of Nazi victims and my grandpa himself, now 98, fought against Nazis. I cant forget all those real stories he told me. I just cant. Nor ill ever forget his face while he was crying like a little baby when was telling me those atrocious stories, each and every time.

I feel lucky i know so much about this war from a soldier point of view. Nor historians or TV documentaries. From my grandpa himself.

I know we need to move on and forgive but we should never forget. People died in millions so we are free today.

@jdc6305: shes proud of participating in the killings of thousands? well **** u too kid.

Honestly couldn't careless what YOU would decide to do, we are discussing a well known franchise/product and voice opinions do in some degree influence developement of ANY product. E.G they are taking this approach now, doesn't neccessarily mean they will in the future depending on feedback.

Because its a fictional alternative reality set in WW2, we get it, but that universe didn't change the majority of the rules at play, it changed the outcome. It infact realistically doubled down on assumed based on FACTUAL behaviours what would happen, and maintained an authentic "by the rules of the time" approach.

Meanwhile Female Black German Nazi's were not present... its called immersion breaking... and as a result causes a disconnect between relating the authentic material to the fictional alternative outcome.

F*ck it why not have modern art all over the Japanese own zones... what does it matter? ITS NOT A DOCUMENTARY.

Your "F*CK IT IL DO WHATEVER" mindset is yours, but understand why other's would FEEDBACK on some of these disney level stupid choices.

Your own statement works both ways and cancels itself out.