Microsoft says cloud isn't the future

@Shewgenja:

OK. So, I admit that I did not read your wall of text at first, so I went back and read everything. My response is this:

LOL!!! You and all the cows in this thread are dumbasses. Spencer was responding to the question: "Do you think the Xbox One is the last console as we know it? You know, running local hardware."

You cows would crap your utters if Sony said "There will be no PS5, we are going to stream games in the future."

You can't have both VR and cloud as latency is much more harmful than for regular gaming. Personally I hope VR takes off big and that means local compute needs to stay!

@Shewgenja said:

@kuu2 said:

So my thread about Cerny saying games won't come for 3 years on PauperStation4 is closed because it was "out of context" but this one is not..........

Cowspot confirmed.

MooJenga, bbbbut I am not a cow........lulz.

That's a funny gif kid. I actually lol'ed at that

A streaming only future is worse. Like the one in the sentence I bolded.

Stream movies Netflix & Amazon, are really the only things worth streaming at this point. The lag on PS Now is going to hurt gameplay in any PS2 or PS3 game that requires accuracy in jumping or shooting. It'll be fine for turnbased RPG's though. Once broadband speeds get a lot faster and ISP providers increase bandwidth restrictions, it'll be ok.

I give it a year or two until MS introduces their own version of Playstation Now and they start throwing around the word "innovation".

Aww, bless. Who's a dumb, gullible lemming? Oh yes u are, yesyeyeyeyes... Mfw....

TC still being misleading? Yup.

Good to see ms is still on the side of gamers.

Meanwhile Sony wants a future dominated by subscription fees and DRM just so you can rent digital content.

So let ME get this right. After MS announces X1, no used games, edging the industry to digital service, having to have an internet connection, and gets crucified for it, Sony offering a digital streaming gaming service, where you cant buy physical, trade in, get used, need an internet connection to use and its good?

Considering the direction gaming went, it's not that hard to figure out.. People will always want to have the choice of purchasing a new game physically. Playstation Now doesn't change that.... at all.

What it does change is backwards compatibility. So, as soon as people see it for what it is, we can have an honest debate about what it is not. As completely expected, Lems strive to find equivalence between something Sony does and their own short-sighted failings supporting the XBone. As much as I get heat for having a misleading title or whatever, it's these strawman arguments that make me not regret a thing.

Considering all the crap theories you try to pull already i would not even go there.

The xbox one can have the ethernet port on top of the damn SOC it doesn't matter the internet connection giving you the data from MS cloud doesn't have even close the speed need it for what they claim period,if the cloud make the damn xbox one so powerful they would not even need a damn GPU and CPU upclock there would be no point in it.

The PS4 is better it will actually use its own GPU for compute without hurting the graphics,when games start to use heavy compute the xbox one will be left even more behind.

Yes i have and you can do office 365 on the cloud that doesn't require intensive processing power,in fact Azure is for the xbox one office 365 and several other products,now running those is not even close to be as intensive as running game code over the internet.

That same latency also affect compute over the internet,that and horrible slow stated of connection today,a 100MB line is not even comparable in speed with a 2000 GPU,the bandwidth need it on GPU is measure in GB not MB.

Let me break it down for you.

Star downloading a big file over the internet with your connection,the bigger the better 20GB or more,now take how long it takes for that file to download completely on your PC,10 hours 5 hours 18 hours what ever.

Yeah that is the problem a 7770 which is low end has 72Gb/s which mean is almost 4 times as big as what i ask you to download,and it pass that 72Gb of data in just 1 second.

So what took you 10 15 hours to download into your PC or console over the internet will pass up to 8 or 9 times faster but every second on a GPU.

The speed difference is not even comparable.

You guys do realize that if PS Now works well, it means that Sony can pursue whatever technology they want in future iterations of the Playstation without losing Backwards Compatibility as an advantage. It blows my mind how MS or some posters here spin this as a bad thing. Then again, it's the same hand full of posters who walked lock-step with MS during their DRM fiasco.

No wonder you want to raise that specter in this thread as if vindicated somehow lol

We're all going to move the goal posts. Bottom line is I remember all the "I want to own and be able to do what I want with my games" arguments. And you wont be able to on PSnow. So I see a, its done by Sony and slightly different so its good, sort of like charging for MP now after YEARS of "MP should be free". I will own a PS4 and an X1 as I have owned both every gen they were available. Look forward to playing some great games on my Vita with Now, I just wont praise Sony for this, as I didn't praise MS for their attempts to move us to digital in the summer. What if someone didn't play TLOU? Its a new game to them, so they suddenly are cool with not owning it?

So, Playstation Now is going to come into my home and brick my PS1, PS2 and PS3 then smash my game discs? Wow, Sony really IS as evil as people have been saying. Thanks for looking out for me.

The compute, that 72Gb/s will happen on the server's hardware. You will basically send to the server info on what it should render, the server will do the job and it will send you back the finished render.

What will travel through the cable is not big at all. For example on autocad, you create a house and send it to autodesk's server to render it. What you will send is basically just a few KB of data, the server will do all the heavy lifting and send you back a 2MB jpg. What traveled through the internet cable was just a few MB.

So you're going to put a ps2 disc in your PS3 and stream the game from PSnow? Taking things out of context is certainly what you like to do from the thread title. But I have done the same in my day. Good talk, son.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

MS's cloud was for AI, off loading compute and calculations, to make the console 10x more powerful, storage, servers and to work in conjunction with the Local Cloud.

That's so stupid it's not even funny.

Didn't BlackAce say they had a similar service in the works? lol

Reminds me of Ballmer's comments on the original IPhone, now look at windows phones.

No what you are describing there is Onlive,the game is store on the servers ran there and video stream to you.

What MS claimed was different,what they claim was that they could increase the power of the unit with the cloud,which is totally different.

Games graphics are done on the fly,which mean they can't be process that way,which is the reason why MS changed the tune from 40 tjmes the power of the xbox 360,to you can offload some CPU task with the cloud because in reality is all you can do,this has been discuss already to no end,you can't stream complex process that happen inside the GPU over the internet,bandwidth doesn't allow it,so what they can do is things that doesn't have to be updated every second like baked lighting and stuff like that,and sony can do that as well if they want to build a cloud service,MS cloud is not just for xbox one,is also for office 365 and other MS product,the whole cloud crap was just MS way of over hyping their own server service and compute service.

Why would company do that. OnLive have been streaming games before both Sony & Microsoft. None of it is really innovative. Until it actually works without lag. That ain't happening anytime soon.

Yes, M$ was looking into it using their cloud servers, but they said latency problems was causing them to wait a bit longer. So they will probably see how Playstation Now pans out before they attempt to introduce their B/C service. I would rather them just make app emulators and call it a day.

bingo

@tormentos: you so stupid sometimes TORM I don't make theories I see possibilities I really think you are mad because no one really talks about the ps4 it is what it is an upgrade from the ps3 that's it the cam is have no better success than move and the graphics are the same engines upgraded to 1080p resolution that's it its stale as hell, GPU compute has nothing to do with LOCAL CLOUD COMPUTE so don't worry about ps4 doing it and the industry is not moving to heavy GPU compute and with two more CPU compute processors, for offloading two more GPU compute processors for offloading, and CLOUD for offloading only the ps4 will be behind. I seen NVIDIA do something you say it cant be done with 109 GPUs just think of the possibilities when having 100,000 GPUs together stop acting close minded because YOUR CONSOLE of CHOICE is not moving forward or taking a hella of a time to catch up.

Of course you can't but maybe you can separate the game into parts. On what is rendered by the machine which would involve things that should not have latency, like pressing the button and jumping and shooting. NPCs reacting to what you do.

The other part, the part where latency is not that important can be rendered by a server and streamed to the machine. Stuff like what happens on the background, on static buildings, some flying ships blowing each other up. Basically stuff that are out of reach for the player so latency is not a big deal. For example say there is a huge battle game with the player count of total war but in third person. The local machine will handle only what's close to the player, what's far from him could be calculated by the server. This ally attacks that enemy, roll dice, win/lose. Servers can do that calculation and only sends back it in a form of video or maybe just rough data ( I did the calculations, x kills y so console just play the death animation for y)

The point of it all is to take some heavy lifting from the local machine so the console can use the resources for other things. However this not only sounds like some future mumbo jumbo we're not even close yet but even as a developing nightmare. Considering developing costs for games are already too high I doubt anyone will bother.

Latency and restrictions with streaming modern games. No mods, no custom settings, no higher resolutions, etc.

Which is why i explained to you that outside few things you can't do much,because most process on the GPU need to be refresh every second.

Which is why MS is using the cloud for baked lighting or AI like on titanfall,outside of that few are the things,most process on the GPU require high bandwidth.

No you see to much Mister X Media crap.

Funny that you say that because a little weaker and the xbox one would not be an upgrade over the xbox 360 at all.

Compute is compute dude WTF the cloud one is less useful because you are limited by a slow connection and latency while on GPU you are not.

Th Industry doesn't have to move to heavy GPU compute,just the PS4 does need and nothing that the industry does will stop sony from taking advantage out of it.

In fact you say the industry is not moving to heavy compute.? How the fu** do you think MS generate compute power from.? They have clusters of servers with very strong GPU and CPU dude and most use on those servers are not your normal GPU,they are way more expensive.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla-supercomputing-solutions.html

The so call power the cloud has come from GPU and CPU on another host machine,so yeah that compute power is been generated by GPU compute already.

You are a total joke cloud computing can be use by any device,is not something exclusive to MS in fact MS is a damn newbie on this area.

Once again cloud is for dedicated servers outside of that little is what it can be done,and the xbox one will trail the PS4 all generation long you can mark that.

If ANYTHING, the XBox One is just an upgraded PS3. Entertainment Super Computer with a bunch of "cell hype" only "cloud" this time claiming to be an all-in-one system all while struggling to deliver games at the accepted HD format. Bonus points for being more difficult to develop games for, too. If the XBone was any more like the PS3, I'd swear to God that Ken Kuturagi designed the thing.

@tormentos: Again just rambling on that nonsense I said the industry is not moving to heavy GPU COMPUTE, and you showed one link that I was already explaining and everyone cant use local cloud show me others that's doing local cloud GPU and CPU COMPUTE show me SONY doing it oh that's right they still waiting on you all to buy more games so they can buy more servers.

I don't really see how it is behind what resolution Im sorry I rather have 720 better textures than 1080p washed out or 900 with no jaggies at all than 1080p with minimal AA but hey to each its own

The AZURE CLOUD is the biggest cloud infrastructure and MS has unlimited resources its real and its coming rather you like it or not cry and tell the people its not possible like you work for MS but SONY tell you anything and you are giddy like a lil school girl but they are slow and stale like their games and the new console.

Lems are stuck with this argument.

They can't discredit PlayStation Now with out making MS look like the marketing bull shieters they are.

The restrictions for streaming games is the same restricting for cloud computing, latency and bandwidth being top of the list.

The main difference is cloud gaming can work to a certain degree, the make-believe cloud computing MS pretended they could do is just laughable.

TLHBO... again

Other forms of entertainment that use streaming is irrelavant. Not a big deal if pressing pause takes a few milliseconds longer on Netflix than a dvd but an action performed in a game being delayed is a big deal. Sp will lag like p2p mp and mp cloud gaming would take lag to a whole new level.

*Having fun playing awesome game*

*internet disconnects*

It's part of the future.

Games will just have to be designed with latency in mind in the near future.. til they solve this latency.. if it can really even be solved with ISPs trying to slow down infrastructure development in certain countries.

How is streaming games NOT cloud computing?

Sony seems to have a working service not surprised M$ is jelly. They hyped the cloud then they say the cloud is not the future typical M$. Valve has the steam os and soon M$ will bash that if they have not already.

That bold part is completely stupid,i showed you where in hell the power from the cloud comes from,machines with heavy CPU and GPU for compute,so yeah is compute on a GPU and is been done already,cloud computing is using machines that use very expensive GPU design for heavy compute.

So don't tell me the industry will not move,it has already tarted moving.cloud computing is part of that movement,those GPU are what power MS cloud.

And nothing has stoped sony ever from taking full advantage of the hardware they have,since the PS1 this is a fact,so yeah i am sure that games with heavy compute in mind are already been made, or are on early stage,

http://n4g.com/news/1283531/sony-of-course-ps4-can-do-cloud-computing#c-7770328

Oh i am sure sony isn't waiting and unlike cloud compute the one sony is working on,works with all consoles with all gamers regardless of you having or not internet,once again GPU compute is more efficient and deliver results in the same frame unlike cloud computing that works only on things that don't need to be refresh like AI or baked lighting,see how Titanfall uses the cloud and the game is been say to struggle to even hit 720p.?

Yeah that is because all the cloud is helping that game is with dedicated servers and bot AI,the game look average as hell.

lol..

Now 1080p has wash out textures...hahahahaa see post like this is what make you look desperate and stupid,Ghost and BF4 look better on PS4,and jaggies on the xbox one version are super easy to spot,thanks to been 720p oh and in BF4 case it runs 10 FPS faster than the xbox one version over all as well.

MS cloud is juts like any other cloud,is not even for the xbox one alone,is for MS products,it doesn't have unlimited power you moron,nothing has unlimited power now nothing,you should have take that as an indication of how MS was taking you for a moron,when they claim unlimited power,no there is no such thing as unlimited power on PC we all know it.

Once again you will look stupid 3 years from now when MS still behind in graphics and the so call power of the cloud doesn't arrive in the form you dreamed it.

@foxhound_fox said:

*Having fun playing awesome game*

*internet disconnects*

Yep is the reason why 24 hours check ups were drop not always online will be there,a problem with your connection and any game that relies on internet for work will fail,either been from PSN now or MS cloud like Titanfall.

Basically is one form,the compute is done on sony side and streamed to you.

@tormentos said:

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: Again just rambling on that nonsense I said the industry is not moving to heavy GPU COMPUTE, and you showed one link that I was already explaining and everyone cant use local cloud show me others that's doing local cloud GPU and CPU COMPUTE show me SONY doing it oh that's right they still waiting on you all to buy more games so they can buy more servers.

I don't really see how it is behind what resolution Im sorry I rather have 720 better textures than 1080p washed out or 900 with no jaggies at all than 1080p with minimal AA but hey to each its own

The AZURE CLOUD is the biggest cloud infrastructure and MS has unlimited resources its real and its coming rather you like it or not cry and tell the people its not possible like you work for MS but SONY tell you anything and you are giddy like a lil school girl but they are slow and stale like their games and the new console.

That bold part is completely stupid,i showed you where in hell the power from the cloud comes from,machines with heavy CPU and GPU for compute,so yeah is compute on a GPU and is been done already,cloud computing is using machines that use very expensive GPU design for heavy compute.

So don't tell me the industry will not move,it has already tarted moving.cloud computing is part of that movement,those GPU are what power MS cloud.

And nothing has stoped sony ever from taking full advantage of the hardware they have,since the PS1 this is a fact,so yeah i am sure that games with heavy compute in mind are already been made, or are on early stage,

http://n4g.com/news/1283531/sony-of-course-ps4-can-do-cloud-computing#c-7770328

Oh i am sure sony isn't waiting and unlike cloud compute the one sony is working on,works with all consoles with all gamers regardless of you having or not internet,once again GPU compute is more efficient and deliver results in the same frame unlike cloud computing that works only on things that don't need to be refresh like AI or baked lighting,see how Titanfall uses the cloud and the game is been say to struggle to even hit 720p.?

Yeah that is because all the cloud is helping that game is with dedicated servers and bot AI,the game look average as hell.

lol..

Now 1080p has wash out textures...hahahahaa see post like this is what make you look desperate and stupid,Ghost and BF4 look better on PS4,and jaggies on the xbox one version are super easy to spot,thanks to been 720p oh and in BF4 case it runs 10 FPS faster than the xbox one version over all as well.

MS cloud is juts like any other cloud,is not even for the xbox one alone,is for MS products,it doesn't have unlimited power you moron,nothing has unlimited power now nothing,you should have take that as an indication of how MS was taking you for a moron,when they claim unlimited power,no there is no such thing as unlimited power on PC we all know it.

Once again you will look stupid 3 years from now when MS still behind in graphics and the so call power of the cloud doesn't arrive in the form you dreamed it.

@foxhound_fox said:

*Having fun playing awesome game*

*internet disconnects*

Yep is the reason why 24 hours check ups were drop not always online will be there,a problem with your connection and any game that relies on internet for work will fail,either been from PSN now or MS cloud like Titanfall.

@way2funny said:

@navyguy21 said:

He means streaming games, not cloud computing............which he is correct.

Why do you think Onlive failed?

PC gamers know how unreliable internet streaming is, its bad enough for video itself.

To say that there wont be any lag is a lie plain and simple.

Even multiplayer games lag and you actually OWN those discs....

How is streaming games NOT cloud computing?

Basically is one form,the compute is done on sony side and streamed to you.

Exactly, Cloud computing and cloud storage are just buzz words for simple concepts that have been around since the internet, since the thought of client-server structures. They are just server side storage and server side computations. When you go to a website it is technically being 'cloud computed'