Is Hideo Kojima better game designer than Shigeru Miyamoto?

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uninspiredcup

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Poll Is Hideo Kojima better game designer than Shigeru Miyamoto? (102 votes)

Hideo Kojima 20%
Shigeru Miyamoto 80%

Both of these men are Japanese with a long history in the industry, one is unarguably sexist, placing heavy emphasis on intrusive cut-scenes, the other creates child friendly with story as, not very important, focusing on mechanics.

Kevin Vanord (who was fired for his Witcher 3 review) wrote of Metal Gear Solid 4:

"Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots is the most technically stunning video game ever made. It's also a fine example of storytelling prowess within its medium, combining gameplay and narrative so slickly and beautifully that it's impossible to extricate one from the other."

Meanwhile, Skyward Sword was remarked as:

"alright"

Weighed up, is Hideo Kojima better than the Shigeru Miyamoto, at making video games?

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#51 foxhound_fox
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#52 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59267 Posts

@davillain- said:

Kojima, he's George Lucas in gaming industry

Absolutely true.

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emgesp

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#53  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

Miyamoto didn't create Skyward Sword. Miyamoto hasn't designed a Zelda game since Ocarina of Time.

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#54  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

Nope. Miyamoto is better. Nothing against Kojima, who is pretty damn awesome, but Miyamoto has honestly probably invented more genres than Kojima has directed games.

Charizard, which genre did Miyamoto invent? I can't think of one. While he improved already established genres, I'm pretty sure he never invented any.

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#55 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59267 Posts

@emgesp said:

Miyamoto didn't create Skyward Sword. Miyamoto hasn't designed a Zelda game since Ocarina of Time.

Everyone agrees he's better so it doesn't really matter.

At this point it's not even a contest; Hideo Kojima is practically non existent.

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#56 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

Also, you guys need to realize that without this game there would be no Super Mario Bros as we know it.


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blackace

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#57 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

I thought this was a joke thread or something. Everyone should know the answer to this question. From looking at the poll, most do.

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deactivated-5d1e44cf96229

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#58  Edited By deactivated-5d1e44cf96229
Member since 2015 • 2814 Posts

Miyamoto is the greatest game developer of all time and nobody else even comes close to him.

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#59 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@storm_of_swords said:

Miyamoto is the greatest game developer of all time and nobody else even comes close to him.

Kojima is still designing games, Miyamoto has mainly been a producer for the past 8 yrs or so.

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#60  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59267 Posts

@emgesp said:
@storm_of_swords said:

Miyamoto is the greatest game developer of all time and nobody else even comes close to him.

Kojima is still designing games, Miyamoto has mainly been a producer for the past 8 yrs or so.

But his 15 year old games are better than Hideo Kojima's 1 year old games.

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#61  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@uninspiredcup:

Not to me as Metal Gear Solid and Snatcher are my all time favorite games.

I'd pick those two games over Miyamoto's whole gameography any day of the week. I know that is sacrilege to some people, but its just my personal preference.

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#62 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17684 Posts

I'm sure even Kojima himself would choose Miyamoto. Different levels altogether.

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#63 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17684 Posts

@emgesp: is that a compliment or insult?

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#64 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

Shigeru Miyamoto is in another stratosphere. The comparison should not be made.

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#65 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:

@emgesp: is that a compliment or insult?

What do you mean?

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#66  Edited By UltimateImp
Member since 2015 • 1192 Posts

You just can't compare Miyamoto with any other developer, period. He is the single most influential figure in gaming, ever. There will never be anyone who can accomplish a tenth of what he did for this industry.

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#67 emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@ultimateimp said:

You just can't compare Miyamoto with any other developer, period.

Sure you can. Miyamoto isn't infallible.

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#68  Edited By UltimateImp
Member since 2015 • 1192 Posts
@emgesp said:
@ultimateimp said:

You just can't compare Miyamoto with any other developer, period.

Sure you can. Miyamoto isn't infallible.

No one is infallible. But that's not what we're talking about. Even with his small mistakes, he still is the single developer with the most influence.

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#69  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@ultimateimp said:
@emgesp said:
@ultimateimp said:

You just can't compare Miyamoto with any other developer, period.

Sure you can. Miyamoto isn't infallible.

No one is infallible. But that's not what we're talking about. Even with his small mistakes, he still is the single developer with the most influence.

This poll isn't about who was more influential. It is who is the better developer. I personally prefer Hideo Kojima as a game creator. Hideo Kojima might have made less games, but just about everything he made has been pretty great. Miyamoto hasn't designed a game since Galaxy.

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#70 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17684 Posts

@emgesp: that OoT was Miyamoto's last game?

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#71  Edited By emgesp
Member since 2004 • 7848 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:

@emgesp: that OoT was Miyamoto's last game?

That wasn't his last game, but the last Zelda game he helped design. He's mostly been a producer in the 2000's. He hasn't really created a brand new IP since Pikmin back in the Gamecube days.

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#72 intotheminx
Member since 2014 • 2608 Posts

Lol this isn't funny.

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#73 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

I think they've both lost their magic.

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#74 coasterguy65
Member since 2005 • 7133 Posts

Is this a serious question? Miyamoto by a long shot. It's not even close.

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#75 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64040 Posts

It's Miyamoto, and it's not even close. The man's on a completely different level, his resume and sheer influence of his work is in another ball park. As far as other japanese directors are concerned, Yu Suzuki is the only one with a resume that stacks up.

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#76  Edited By superbuuman
Member since 2010 • 6400 Posts

No, its Shigi ..no contest. Kojima is good however. :P

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#77 Shmiity
Member since 2006 • 6625 Posts

No. Metal Gear is a great franchise but you're comparing him to the guy behind Zelda, Mario, Donkey Kong, and Pikmin.. there is no comparison. I believe Miyamoto was also the mentor of Tajiri... the guy who made Pokemon. Kojima is a mad scientist, but Miyamoto is really the god of video games as we know it.

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#78 dobzilian
Member since 2012 • 3409 Posts

Honestly i think a better debate would be. Kamiya vs kojima.

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#79 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34732 Posts

LOL

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#80 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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@jg4xchamp: I wish more of the general gaming community actually knew what Suzuki did. They all just associate him with Shenmue, and while Shenmue is whatever, it doesn't begin to approach the sheer importance of some of the other stuff Suzuki did earlier in his career.

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#81  Edited By AznbkdX
Member since 2012 • 4284 Posts

Hell no he isn't. Even if Miyamoto doesn't really make games any more, the few he did make crap on MGS from a great height.

I don't hate MGS, but yeah... not on the level of 3D Mario or any of the other things he thought up.

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#82  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19675 Posts

Just like like comparing consoles, I'll do a genre-by-genre comparison between the games they designed and directed, with the better man chosen for each genre:

  • Action-Adventure - Miyamoto
  • Graphic Adventure - Kojima
  • Maze - Miyamoto
  • Music - Miyamoto
  • Platformer - Miyamoto
  • Racing - Miyamoto
  • RPG - Tie
  • Shooter - Kojima
  • Simulation - Miyamoto
  • Sports - Miyamoto
  • Stealth - Kojima
  • Strategy - Miyamoto
  • Survival Horror - Kojima
  • Visual Novel - Kojima

Overall:

  • Miyamoto - 9 genres (1 tie)
  • Kojima - 6 genres (1 tie)

Winner: Miyamoto

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#83 khoofia_pika
Member since 2006 • 16761 Posts

Game designer? No. This shouldn't even be a question. Why did you ask this

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#84 deactivated-597794cd74015
Member since 2012 • 961 Posts

Kojima does not have much technical knowledge, you know that right ?

He doesn't make or design anything. He's a writer and director.

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#85 ConanTheStoner  Online
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@faizanhd said:

Kojima does not have much technical knowledge, you know that right ?

He doesn't make or design anything. He's a writer and director.

I don't know if you're confusing things like coding, concept/technical art with game design, but he's very much a game designer.

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#86 so_hai
Member since 2007 • 4385 Posts

Miyamoto is like Lennon & Macarteny, Kojima is like Oasis

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#87  Edited By deactivated-597794cd74015
Member since 2012 • 961 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:
@faizanhd said:

Kojima does not have much technical knowledge, you know that right ?

He doesn't make or design anything. He's a writer and director.

I don't know if you're confusing things like coding, concept/technical art with game design, but he's very much a game designer.

He has not been a "designer" since MGS 3. Gameplay and mechanics have been directed by individual western devs since then. Which is why games since MGS 4 have standard shooter controls and why MGS 5 feels like a Ubisoft open-world game.

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#88 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
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@charizard1605 said:
@emgesp said:

@charizard1605:

Miyamoto didn't create any new genres.

You're right actually, he hasn't directed a (non Wii brand) game since Pikmin 2. For some reason I was sure Pikmin 3 was also him.

It is Shigeru Miyamoto as a game designer that matters. It is the concept of Pikmin that matters. Same goes for countless other Nintendo games.

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#89 emgesp
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@Jag85 said:

Just like like comparing consoles, I'll do a genre-by-genre comparison between the games they designed and directed, with the better man chosen for each genre:

  • Action-Adventure - Miyamoto
  • Graphic Adventure - Kojima
  • Maze - Miyamoto
  • Music - Miyamoto
  • Platformer - Miyamoto
  • Racing - Miyamoto
  • RPG - Tie
  • Shooter - Kojima
  • Simulation - Miyamoto
  • Sports - Miyamoto
  • Stealth - Kojima
  • Strategy - Miyamoto
  • Survival Horror - Kojima
  • Visual Novel - Kojima

Overall:

  • Miyamoto - 9 genres (1 tie)
  • Kojima - 6 genres (1 tie)

Winner: Miyamoto

Kojima never developed a Sports or Racing game, so that isn't fair.

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#90  Edited By Elaisse
Member since 2012 • 651 Posts

This is Kojima

This is Shiggy

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#91 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41571 Posts

@charizard1605: Uh, Virtua Fighter?

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#92  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19675 Posts
@emgesp said:

Kojima never developed a Sports or Racing game, so that isn't fair.

Miyamoto never developed a survival horror or graphic adventure either, so Kojima also wins those genres by default. I was just comparing the number of genres they excelled at, and Miyamoto comes out ahead in that regard. But Kojima comes surprisingly close, only three genres short of Miyamoto.

@nintendoboy16 said:

@charizard1605: Uh, Virtua Fighter?

Yu Suzuki also developed other important arcade games like Hang-On, Space Harrier, OutRun, After Burner, Power Drift, Virtua Racing, Daytona USA, Virtua Cop and Virtua Striker. And as an engineer, Suzuki also developed important hardware like the Super Scaler, Sega Model and Naomi arcade systems and the Dreamcast console.

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#93 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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@Jag85: @nintendoboy16:Yes, I know all this, my point was that, unlike with Miyamoto, most other people are not familiar with Suzuki's extent of contributions :/

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#94  Edited By ConanTheStoner  Online
Member since 2011 • 23721 Posts

@faizanhd said:
@ConanTheStoner said:
@faizanhd said:

Kojima does not have much technical knowledge, you know that right ?

He doesn't make or design anything. He's a writer and director.

I don't know if you're confusing things like coding, concept/technical art with game design, but he's very much a game designer.

He has not been a "designer" since MGS 3. Gameplay and mechanics have been directed by individual western devs since then. Which is why games since MGS 4 have standard shooter controls and why MGS 5 feels like a Ubisoft open-world game.

Dude, the only games he didn't take the lead design role with, post MGS3, were Portable Ops and Rising. And of course PO blew chunks, while Rising was nearly scrapped before being outsourced.

He was the lead designer behind MGS4, Peace Walker and MGSV.

At the time (MGS4), Ryan Payton was the assistant producer and was pushing for MGS4 to have more of a western appeal. As much as people loved MGS3, the main gripe was the camera and controls. In those respects, the game felt outdated upon release. It's not as if this was some mystery to Kojima, he's always been on top of feedback, sometimes to a fault. As a matter of fact, both MGS3 and MGS4 were both direct responses to fan complaints. That's getting away from the point though. Kojima did decide to implement a more up to date camera for MGS3 Subsistence, but saved the big revisions for MGS4 which was already in pre-production.

As for MGSV being an open world sandbox infiltration game.

1. This is the type of game Kojima has been describing as his dream game since the original Metal Gear.

2. As far back as MGS2, he's been trying to pull this off. MGS2 was originally supposed to take place in an open ended Manhattan setting, but the testing phase proved to be a failure. Then again with MGS3, you have the early test footage that was built on the MGS2 engine, then you have the E3 2003 trailer. Both of which show a far more open game, the E3 trailer even poking fun about Vice City. Then of course you have Kojimas own words on the matter about wishing for a far more open world in that game. Of course again, they failed to follow through. Same old story with MGS4.

You are correct in that they brought in some western talent, but that was to get their tech and pipeline up to current standards. Kojima needed the technical backbone and workflow to finally see HIS DESIGN ideas become a reality.

At the end of the day, Kojima is the one who establishes the rules of play. He's the one who dictates the kind of game they will make. He's the idea guy who spits out the plan, then delegates the detail work down the line. While he does have teams of specialized designers working under him, and will hear out their suggestions, he's ultimately the filter that says yay or nay. And once those ideas start seeing implementation, he's the one who tests them, suggests fixes if necessary, or outright cuts them if he feels they aren't fun, or don't balance well.

He is THE lead game designer of these games. He also happens to be the director and writer, which isn't too uncommon at all. Trying to discredit Kojima as a designer on these games because he happens to fill other roles would be like trying to discredit Miyamoto as a designer of Super Mario Bros. or The Legend of Zelda, simply because he was also the producer and director.

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#95 aroxx_ab
Member since 2005 • 13236 Posts

Depends who you ask

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#96 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41571 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

@Jag85: @nintendoboy16:Yes, I know all this, my point was that, unlike with Miyamoto, most other people are not familiar with Suzuki's extent of contributions :/

I don't believe that. I really don't. If most people are not familiar with Suzuki's work, why does he get so much recognition in the gaming press for it all? Why does much of the gaming community do the same?

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#97 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:
@charizard1605 said:

@Jag85: @nintendoboy16:Yes, I know all this, my point was that, unlike with Miyamoto, most other people are not familiar with Suzuki's extent of contributions :/

I don't believe that. I really don't. If most people are not familiar with Suzuki's work, why does he get so much recognition in the gaming press for it all? Why does much of the gaming community do the same?

Because he doesn't? Outside of highly enthusiast niches, Suzuki is hardly known.

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#98 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
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@charizard1605 said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@charizard1605 said:

@Jag85: @nintendoboy16:Yes, I know all this, my point was that, unlike with Miyamoto, most other people are not familiar with Suzuki's extent of contributions :/

I don't believe that. I really don't. If most people are not familiar with Suzuki's work, why does he get so much recognition in the gaming press for it all? Why does much of the gaming community do the same?

Because he doesn't? Outside of highly enthusiast niches, Suzuki is hardly known.

Suzuki is hardly known? He is one of the most influential and lauded in the industry.

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#99 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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@Heirren: Again, you are misunderstanding me.

Outside of the enthusiast circles and media, Suzuki's name does not have the cachet Miyamoto's name does. I am saying it is unfair, because Suzuki is every bit as influential.

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#100  Edited By chocolate1325
Member since 2006 • 33007 Posts

Sorry but Zelda and Mario the main games are superior to Kojimas MGS games.