Is 825gb hard drive space acceptable for a next gen system?

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Nonstop-Madness

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#101 Nonstop-Madness
Member since 2008 • 12303 Posts
@pc_rocks said:
@Nonstop-Madness said:
@gifford38 said:

mark said himself a game like spiderman has to copy a fire hydrant or mail box over one hundred times all over the game because the game is in chunks. like a city block. a lot of open worlds are done this way not all of them but some. but all of them has to make copies of assets because of seek time to get that asset up at that moment.

he said they had trouble fitting all those copies on blu-ray disc.

he said now they can have only one copy that streams in when needed and as many they need of that one asset instead of making hundreds of copies of the same item.

this is me not hyping the ps5. this is me trying to say the game data could be smaller because of this. it was more of a question. im not trying to embarrass myself or making things up. i say things that i hear come out of there month. there not guesses.

if you take the same spiderman game and they remake the same game with the ssd getting rid of the hundreds of copies you get a smaller file correct?

same with the series x ssd. if it fast enough because the ssd does not have seek times.

Loading Video...

^ it's all explained right here.

They would put duplicate assets on the hard drive because it's much faster to read consecutive data and discard stuff you don't need than it is to physically have the hard drive seek to where the asset would be.

So ... yes, having an SSD would help remove the need to duplicate assets.

Does it mean games will be smaller next gen? Perhaps. The assets themselves will more likely be larger but, removing duplication and other things like compression definitely helps keep the file size down.

What Cerny said is not the same as what you and Grifford is saying. You don't need to read a 'fire hydrant' 100 times from a disc if a scene contains 100 instances of it. One read is enough.

What Cerny meant is developers make copies of the 'fire hydrant' and spread them over multiple HDD sectors in order to improve the 'seek' time i.e. reducing the time for that 'one read' not 100s or 1000s.

You're right. You would never read an asset the same number of times it appears in a specific scene.

But, I'm pretty sure these are exactly the same, no?

---

The practice of spreading the same asset across multiple sectors is the "issue" here.

You don't need to do that with an (any) SSD which means you could save *some* storage space.

I.e. Spiderman would have taken up less storage if the PS4 used an SSD as the primary and default storage media.

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PC_Rocks

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#102 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 8470 Posts

@gifford38 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@Nonstop-Madness said:
Loading Video...

^ it's all explained right here.

They would put duplicate assets on the hard drive because it's much faster to read consecutive data and discard stuff you don't need than it is to physically have the hard drive seek to where the asset would be.

So ... yes, having an SSD would help remove the need to duplicate assets.

Does it mean games will be smaller next gen? Perhaps. The assets themselves will more likely be larger but, removing duplication and other things like compression definitely helps keep the file size down.

What Cerny said is not the same as what you and Grifford is saying. You don't need to read a 'fire hydrant' 100 times from a disc if a scene contains 100 instances of it. One read is enough.

What Cerny meant is developers make copies of the 'fire hydrant' and spread them over multiple HDD sectors in order to improve the 'seek' time i.e. reducing the time for that 'one read' not 100s or 1000s.

yes it is copied hundreds of times on the hdd. if the block has say 20 hydrants it loads once next block has say 4 hydrants it uses a copy that is in that chunk of data. each chunk contains a copy of the same asset. each chunk has its own copy of the same item. but its also other copies like news stands or light poles. each chunk contains copies of different things. i think i worded that right.

with the ssd it can have only one asset brought into memory and re use it in each chunk. because of the no seek times.

this also allows the developer to make different looking assets so the level design does not get stale.

Dude, stop trying to talk about things you have no idea about. You're literally embarrassing yourself. It's okay to like PS5 and be hyped for it. You don't have to know the technicalities to like something. This is precisely why consoles exist. You like what you see then get it. No need to convince yourself or others on the 'why'.

For you again!

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deactivated-5fd4737f5f083

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#103 deactivated-5fd4737f5f083
Member since 2018 • 937 Posts

Next gen games will comfortably be near the 100gb mark given how they will be pushing 4k texturing. You might get 8 to 10 games on there.

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Sushiglutton

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#104 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 9853 Posts

Cerny’s motivated this by saying that they had looked at data of people’s playing habits and concluded that it is enough. For me it will be. I typically play a game from start to finish and then move on to the next. I never jump around between say even 5 different games.

A lot of it comes down to how well the do UI. But I feel like re-downloading a game is already pretty smooth. And most games you can start with just a fraction downloaded, so it’s not that big of a deal.

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sealionact

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#105 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 9816 Posts

1tb on my xsx filled pretty quickly, and although I mostly only play 2-3 games at a time I'm downloading a lot more games using GP. It's a pain deleting games knowing that it will take so much time if I want to download it again....so 1tb is not enough, much less 875 GB. It doesnt help that the as yet unannounced ssd cards for ps5 will again be 825gb.

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XenoNinja

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#106 XenoNinja
Member since 2003 • 5380 Posts

Arent most games being stored on cloud? So I would say its plenty for games saves, etc

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Martin_G_N

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#107 Martin_G_N
Member since 2006 • 2124 Posts

Yes, it will be enough. Games on the PS5 will require less space on the SSD, because it doesn't need duplicated data on there to keep the read speeds up like on previous gens. Of course higher detail will bring the space requirements up again, but games won't be 200GB. They also have better compression than before. I guess games will be around 50 to 100GB each, with some bigger titles reaching 150GB. Who plays 8 games at once? And the fact that you can choose what to install, like the SP and MP, or certain DLC, will save space as well.

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Litchie

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#108  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34602 Posts

Most PS owners just get a Call of Duty, FIFA and some hyped cinematic action game. So that's more than enough space for the majority of PS owners.

For the actual gamers though, they might need a little more. Impossible to say really, as we don't have any info about the filesize of PS5's games. 800GB of space should fit quite a lot of games though.

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W1NGMAN-

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#109 W1NGMAN-
Member since 2008 • 10109 Posts

@SolidGame_basic: Hell no. I upgraded my PS4's internal HDD to 2TB, also added a 4TB external drive. I'm now having to delete games off my HDD's to make room for my most recent purchases. 875GB will last me maybe a year. What makes me most nervous about this gen is Sony is touting their custom SDD so we can probably expect a hefty price to upgrade.

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xantufrog

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#110 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@XenoNinja: what? No. Game installs are not being streamed from the cloud.

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VFighter

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#111 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@Litchie: CoD:MW takes up at least 200 gigs ALONE, not sure what you're smoking but neither new system has the storage space it needs. Hell I have a 500 gig ps4 and a 2 tb external and that's filling up quick (even after deleting the games Ive beaten and probably won't go back to).

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shellcase86

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#112 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 6848 Posts

@Sushiglutton said:

Cerny’s motivated this by saying that they had looked at data of people’s playing habits and concluded that it is enough. For me it will be. I typically play a game from start to finish and then move on to the next. I never jump around between say even 5 different games.

A lot of it comes down to how well the do UI. But I feel like re-downloading a game is already pretty smooth. And most games you can start with just a fraction downloaded, so it’s not that big of a deal.

Good points.

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organic_machine

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#113  Edited By organic_machine
Member since 2004 • 10141 Posts

How much will be taken up by the OS? How much will be taken up by games? And lastly, and most importantly in regards to the PS5's advantage, how much will be required to be reserved by games taking advantage of the drive for it's ability to be used as virtual RAM? I'd imagine many devs would want to use as much RAM as they can on graphics and rely on the hyper fast SSD as virtual RAM. That's a big advantage of the PS5 and it's SSD over the XSX potentially and there doesn't seem to be any talk about devs having dedicated SSD space to reserve.

I'd imagine even 1TB juggling all three would be a nightmare. Imagine popping in a game that relies on virtual RAM to make up for dedicating all the RAM to the GPU to render 4K and not having the space? Either the game will give you an error and tell you that you don't have enough space or, perhaps worse, the game will run and tank it's FPS or dramatically lower its res (or both?).