IGN proves that PS3 has better exclusives than 360

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Verge_6

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#51 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

Huh, last I checked, that logo in the top left corner of this page said 'Gamespot'. :roll:

Also, an editor opinion compilation list? For rizzle? I lol'd.

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WAIW

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#52 WAIW
Member since 2008 • 5000 Posts

[QUOTE="WAIW"][QUOTE="xsubtownerx"] Wow. PC gamers just can not accept the fact that some people just do not like gaming on PCs.. :lol:xsubtownerx
Please, tell me why you'd rather play multiplats on 360.... I said 'probably' because I can understand the community aspect of XBL... But otherwise the 360 is indisputably worse, in graphics, control options and so forth.

Controls you say are worse? Then why do so many people plug in a 360 controller on to their PCs for some of these multiplats you speak of? Graphics are worse? yeah the PC has a slight edge, but no where near the light years ahead it was, like in the 90's. I also just don't like being on a desk to play video games. I really cannot stand K&M controls. I find it to be very uncomfortable for me. You know, people have different opinions and tastes. Just because you think PC gaming is the best, that doesn't mean the next guy feels the same way.

Yes, the control OPTIONS are better by default, because you can use ANY controller and not be restricted...

Yes, the graphics are better...

It doesn't matter if you don't like KB/M because you don't have to use it... You yourself referenced plugging in a 360 controller.

You don't have to sit on a desk to play... Unless, of course, as I originally stated, you don't have enough money or are not willing to spend more on your optimal gaming setup...

And, uh, I don't think PC gaming is the best. :)

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mirriorman

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#53 mirriorman
Member since 2009 • 1946 Posts

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/106/1060027p25.html

IGN just released their top 25 games on PS3, lets see it:

1. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (Exclusive)
2. Uncahrted 2: Among Thieves (Exclusive)
3. LittleBigPlanet (Exclusive)
4. Grand Theft Auto IV
5. Fallout 3
6. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Exclusive)
7. Killzone 2 (Exclusive)
8. BioShock
9. Batman: Arkham Asylum
10. Call of Duty : Modern Warfare 2

That's a pretty good list, and there's 5 title that's exclusives, dont forget the top 3 are all exclusives

Compared it to Xbox 360:

1. Mass Effect
2. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
3. Fallout 3
4. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
5. Grand Theft Auto IV
6. Halo 3 (Exclusive)
7. The Orange Box
8. BioShock
9. Braid
10. Gears of War

WTF? Only 1 exclusive? And it placed number 6? Really? Why should I buy 360 if I can play all the good games on my PC?

And now lemmings, your excuse?

ihsanqueen

times like this make me glad i'm an xbox owner as it means i could never bump into you

grow up a small bit and stop worshipping a console

also little big planet is on the psp :P

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SilverChimera

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#54 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]It's really a landslide on that site.

Yeah I noticed that too. IGN overrated a lot of those games IMO.
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SilverChimera

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#55 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

Huh, last I checked, that logo in the top left corner of this page said 'Gamespot'. :roll:

Also, an editor opinion compilation list? For rizzle? I lol'd.

Verge_6
Reviews are editor's opinions too... Even on gamespot.
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Skittles_McGee

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#56 Skittles_McGee
Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts
also little big planet is on the psp :Pmirriorman
Different game. Same name, not the same game.
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Verge_6

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#57 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

Huh, last I checked, that logo in the top left corner of this page said 'Gamespot'. :roll:

Also, an editor opinion compilation list? For rizzle? I lol'd.

SilverChimera

Reviews are editor's opinions too... Even on gamespot.

There is a very, very, very, VERY large difference between a review and one of these 'Top 10/15/20etc. games for X console' compilations. One tends to be a pretty good tool for determining whether one will enjoy a game or not, and the other has a tendency of being laughably bad and chock-full of nonsense.

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SilverChimera

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#58 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
[QUOTE="SilverChimera"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]

Huh, last I checked, that logo in the top left corner of this page said 'Gamespot'. :roll:

Also, an editor opinion compilation list? For rizzle? I lol'd.

Verge_6
Reviews are editor's opinions too... Even on gamespot.

There is a very, very, very., VERY large difference between a review, and on of these 'Top 10/15/20etc. games for X console' compilations. One tends to be a pretty good tool for determining whether one will enjoy a game or not, and the other has a tendency of being laughably bad and chock-full of nonsense.

Because you are viewing the list through your bias and expectations. I thought the list was trash at first and then I realized that it's not my opinion but the IGN editors' opinions. Same with their reviews.
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navyguy21

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#59 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17457 Posts
lol, the title should be edited to say "IGN proves they have an opinion like the other 8.9 BILLION people on earth" :P
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Verge_6

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#60 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
[QUOTE="SilverChimera"] Because you are viewing the list through your bias and expectations

No, I'm pretty sure I'm viewing it through my experience with these compilation pages, but thanks for your suggestion.
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SilverChimera

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#61 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="SilverChimera"] Because you are viewing the list through your bias and expectations

No, I'm pretty sure I'm viewing it through my experience with these compilation pages, but thanks for your suggestion.

How else do you think they come up with the list? Just pick the highest rated games? They get together as a group and choose what they think should be on the list. It's all opinion. How exactly do reviews determine how fun a game is better than a list? I'm not saying a list is better, but I just want to hear what you think.
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LOXO7

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#62 LOXO7
Member since 2008 • 5595 Posts

I thought it was pretty clear by now

360 >>>>> PS3 - 3rd party

PS3 >>>>> 360 - Exclusives

GnR-SLaSh

But this is a top ten games list..... 360 3rd party >>>>> 360 - Exclusives. :?

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Verge_6

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#63 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="SilverChimera"] Because you are viewing the list through your bias and expectations SilverChimera
No, I'm pretty sure I'm viewing it through my experience with these compilation pages, but thanks for your suggestion.

How else do you think they come up with the list? Just pick the highest rated games? They get together as a group and choose what they think should be on the list. It's all opinion. How exactly do reviews determine how fun a game is better than a list? I'm not saying a list is better, but I just want to hear what you think.

I think you're confused, as I've never denied that it was all opinion. Opinions, believe it or not, are not immune from critiquing, especially if they're presented in a 'top x' format.

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SilverChimera

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#64 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="SilverChimera"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] No, I'm pretty sure I'm viewing it through my experience with these compilation pages, but thanks for your suggestion.

How else do you think they come up with the list? Just pick the highest rated games? They get together as a group and choose what they think should be on the list. It's all opinion. How exactly do reviews determine how fun a game is better than a list? I'm not saying a list is better, but I just want to hear what you think.

I think you're confused, as I've never denied that it was all opinion. Opinions, believe it or not, are not immune from critiquing.

Then how exactly is a review any better?
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Verge_6

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#65 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
[QUOTE="SilverChimera"][QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="SilverChimera"] How else do you think they come up with the list? Just pick the highest rated games? They get together as a group and choose what they think should be on the list. It's all opinion. How exactly do reviews determine how fun a game is better than a list? I'm not saying a list is better, but I just want to hear what you think.

I think you're confused, as I've never denied that it was all opinion. Opinions, believe it or not, are not immune from critiquing.

Then how exactly is a review any better?

I never said it was. It's an entirely different presentation.
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Midnightshade29

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#66 Midnightshade29
Member since 2008 • 6003 Posts
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][QUOTE="WAIW"][QUOTE="millerlight89"] I think it is more for the people who can not afford them.

Yea, anyone who wants to play those games and has the money to afford a good setup (their controller of preference, monitor/tv, etc.) would probably play it on PC...

Wow. PC gamers just can not accept the fact that some people just do not like gaming on PCs.. :lol:

And some of us do love the pc.. been a pc gamer since i was a little kid back in the early 1980's with the Apple IIc then 80286 Ibm PC.... with consoles every once in a while(but always, Always had a PC that could play games) I admit some people like playing on the 360 more, but that doesn't make the games that come out on both excluisvie to the 360. It makes them multiplat.... and some games like Risen that I am playing now on the PC.... were just ports to the 360 and are much much better on the PC. Regardless nothing can be proved based on OPINION.. the only fact is that if a game is on 360 and PC its a multiplat. For myself who is a PC and PlayStation gamer.. there really is nothing so great(that interests me) that makes me want to get a 360.
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pstripl3

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#67 pstripl3
Member since 2007 • 795 Posts
we all know already that the ps3 has better exclusives and overall better and more variety of games. plus the graphics on the ps3 games blows the 360 games out the water (killzone 2 and uncharted 2).
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SilverChimera

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#68 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

I never said it was.Verge_6

Then what is this supposed to mean:

There is a very, very, very., VERY large difference between a review, and on of these 'Top 10/15/20etc. games for X console' compilations. One tends to be a pretty good tool for determining whether one will enjoy a game or not, and the other has a tendency of being laughably bad and chock-full of nonsense.

Verge_6

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Verge_6

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#69 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]I never said it was.SilverChimera

Then what is this supposed to mean:

There is a very, very, very., VERY large difference between a review, and on of these 'Top 10/15/20etc. games for X console' compilations. One tends to be a pretty good tool for determining whether one will enjoy a game or not, and the other has a tendency of being laughably bad and chock-full of nonsense.

Verge_6

I'll go with 'NOT a direct comparison of two totally different editorial types with equally different intentions' for $200, Mike.

In all honesty, if this turns into yet another petty semantics debate, I'll be glad. Verg's got three hours to kill.

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SUD123456

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#70 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6960 Posts

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/106/1060027p25.html

IGN just released their top 25 games on PS3, lets see it:

1. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (Exclusive)
2. Uncahrted 2: Among Thieves (Exclusive)
3. LittleBigPlanet (Exclusive)
4. Grand Theft Auto IV
5. Fallout 3
6. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Exclusive)
7. Killzone 2 (Exclusive)
8. BioShock
9. Batman: Arkham Asylum
10. Call of Duty : Modern Warfare 2

That's a pretty good list, and there's 5 title that's exclusives, dont forget the top 3 are all exclusives

Compared it to Xbox 360:

1. Mass Effect
2. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
3. Fallout 3
4. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
5. Grand Theft Auto IV
6. Halo 3 (Exclusive)
7. The Orange Box
8. BioShock
9. Braid
10. Gears of War

WTF? Only 1 exclusive? And it placed number 6? Really? Why should I buy 360 if I can play all the good games on my PC?

And now lemmings, your excuse?

ihsanqueen

Why would lemmings need an excuse?

Most lemmings don't give a crap what is on the PC. And why would they care whether you buy a 360 or not?

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ActicEdge

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#71 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

They're not written by the same people. That basically ends the discussion. Even so, if you ask IGN, they are going to say the PS3 has better exclusives. Nothing wrong with that.

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anshul89

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#72 anshul89
Member since 2006 • 5705 Posts

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][QUOTE="ihsanqueen"]

Why should I buy 360 if I can play all the good games on my PC?

And now lemmings, your excuse?

millerlight89

The 360 is aimed at those who don't like gaming on PCs. For those people, owning a 360 is a better choice than owning a PS3. Also, that IGN list is pretty weak. IGN in general are pretty weak.

I think it is more for the people who can not afford them.

I agree 100%. That's the number 1 excuse I get when I try to convince my mates on xbox live to build a gaming rig. All of them were blown away after playing Empire Total War, Crysis, Dirt 2, etc etc

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SilverChimera

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#75 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

I'll go with 'NOT a direct comparison of two totally different editorial types with equally different intentions' for $200, Mike.

Verge_6

Then why compare them in the first place? Answer this, if you wanted to buy a console, wouldn't you want to know the best games to get for it through a quick list rather than sift through a bunch of reviews?

That's what I would do and then if a game looks interesting on the list, I'd go read/watch the review.

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SilverChimera

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#76 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
Bladex2k
I'd delete that last part if I were you.
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Verge_6

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#77 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

Then why compare them in the first place?SilverChimera
To show the laughably obvious differences (in presentation and intent) between them? Ooh, and how about pointing out how one tends to excel in its goal and accomplish it, and one generally falls short with ludicrous entries?

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EndorphinMaster

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#78 EndorphinMaster
Member since 2009 • 2118 Posts

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/106/1060027p25.html

IGN just released their top 25 games on PS3, lets see it:

1. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (Exclusive)
2. Uncahrted 2: Among Thieves (Exclusive)
3. LittleBigPlanet (Exclusive)
4. Grand Theft Auto IV
5. Fallout 3
6. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Exclusive)
7. Killzone 2 (Exclusive)
8. BioShock
9. Batman: Arkham Asylum
10. Call of Duty : Modern Warfare 2

That's a pretty good list, and there's 5 title that's exclusives, dont forget the top 3 are all exclusives

Compared it to Xbox 360:

1. Mass Effect
2. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
3. Fallout 3
4. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
5. Grand Theft Auto IV
6. Halo 3 (Exclusive)
7. The Orange Box
8. BioShock
9. Braid
10. Gears of War

WTF? Only 1 exclusive? And it placed number 6? Really? Why should I buy 360 if I can play all the good games on my PC?

And now lemmings, your excuse?

ihsanqueen

Obviously the lists are done by different staffs, proven by the number of discrepancies. Try harder next time TC.

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Silverbond

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#79 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts

Nah. IGN just proved they have an opinion. Although, their opinion doesn't really count for much here.

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carljohnson3456

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#80 carljohnson3456
Member since 2007 • 12489 Posts
The "hiding behind the PC" excuse is sooo tired. The 360 and PS3 aint competing with PC. They are competing against each other. In that regard, the 360 has more console exclusives.
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SilverChimera

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#81 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

[QUOTE="SilverChimera"]Then why compare them in the first place?Verge_6

To show the laughably obvious differences (in presentation and intent) between them? Ooh, and how about pointing out how one tends to excel in its goal and accomplish it, and one generally falls short with ludicrous entries?

You forgot the "In my opinion" part. Some people prefer reviews, other prefer lists. I presume you fall into the former?
You may view some of the entries differently than other people. Same goes for reviews. Both are the editor's opinions so I'm having a hard time understanding why one is better than the other when they are both opinions.

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EndorphinMaster

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#82 EndorphinMaster
Member since 2009 • 2118 Posts

Huh, last I checked, that logo in the top left corner of this page said 'Gamespot'. :roll:

Also, an editor opinion compilation list? For rizzle? I lol'd.

Verge_6

Fanboys tend to jump at every chance they get. This thread proves it.

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Verge_6

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#83 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

[QUOTE="SilverChimera"]Then why compare them in the first place?SilverChimera

To show the laughably obvious differences (in presentation and intent) between them? Ooh, and how about pointing out how one tends to excel in its goal and accomplish it, and one generally falls short with ludicrous entries?

You forgot the "In my opinion" part. Some people prefer reviews, other prefer lists. I presume you fall into the former?
You may view some of the entries differently than other people. Same goes for reviews. Both are the editor's opinions so I'm having a hard time understanding why one is better than the other when they are both opinions.

You're also having a hard time comprehending the intent and purpose of a review in comparison to that of a 'Top X console games!'. This isn't even about who prefers reviews or who prefers lists, for the love of Christ.

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Yo-gan

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#84 Yo-gan
Member since 2006 • 1878 Posts
Gears 2 > Gears 1 and its an exclusive. Also those lists are made up by ign's opinion, i can think of the top 10 games for each console and those lists would be quite differnt to ign's list. And before and fanboys cow, lemmings or whatever those freakshows are calling themselves these days start saying im being biased or im th eone who's a fanboy im far from it, i have a PS3, a 360 and even a Wii.
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SilverChimera

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#85 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

You're also having a hard time comprehending the intent and purpose of a review in comparison to that of a 'Top X console games!'. This isn't even about who prefers reviews or who prefers lists, for the love of Christ.

Verge_6

Why don't you enlighten me, then, about the purpose of each?

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Verge_6

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#86 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

You're also having a hard time comprehending the intent and purpose of a review in comparison to that of a 'Top X console games!'. This isn't even about who prefers reviews or who prefers lists, for the love of Christ.

SilverChimera

Why don't you enlighten me, then, about the purpose of each?

And repeat what I've said numerous times already? No, I find that boring. I'm seeking entertainment, remember?
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Bladex2k

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#87 Bladex2k
Member since 2003 • 2755 Posts
[QUOTE="Bladex2k"]SilverChimera
I'd delete that last part if I were you.

why im not saying its legal to do or am i saying to do its we all know its a problem for any pc software
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SilverChimera

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#88 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
[QUOTE="Verge_6"] And repeat what I've said numerous times already? No, I find that boring. I'm seeking entertainment, remember?

Now you're just beating around the bush. You never said exactly what the purpose of a review and a top x list is. You've said why YOU think that reviews are better and why YOU think that top x lists have BS entries. Oh, and why is it that any of the entries in these particular lists don't deserve their spot?
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Verge_6

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#89 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
You never said exactly what the purpose of a review and a top x list is. You've said why YOU think that reviews are better and why YOU think that top x lists have BS entries. Oh, and why is it that any of the entries in these particular lists don't deserve their spot? SilverChimera
I believe I said so multiple times. And even if I didn't, such elementary things shouldn't need to be explained. Top X lists tend to be crap as they are inconsistent, and some even defy common sense. GTA4 being a better PS3 game than Killzone 2 or Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, the latter two beng platform defining entries? That's a crap entry. And there are other like it. I'm glad I finally have my own post stalker, it's something I've wanted for a while now. :D
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SilverChimera

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#90 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

GTA4 being a better PS3 game than Killzone 2 or Uncharted: Drake's FortuneVerge_6

Yet you seem to forget than GTA4 got a 10/10 in its review while Uncharted got a 9.1 and Killzone 2 a 9.4. Point debunked?

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agesyrh

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#91 agesyrh
Member since 2010 • 164 Posts

The "hiding behind the PC" excuse is sooo tired. The 360 and PS3 aint competing with PC. They are competing against each other. In that regard, the 360 has more console exclusives.carljohnson3456
All systems are competing against each other, not just ps3 and 360.Oh and lol at console exclusives :lol:

Either a game is exclusive or isn't.

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Verge_6

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#92 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]GTA4 being a better PS3 game than Killzone 2 or Uncharted: Drake's FortuneSilverChimera

Yet you seem to forget than GTA4 got a 10/10 in its review while Uncharted got a 9.1 and Killzone 2 a 9.4. Point debunked?

Burnout: Paradise, an 8.8 scoring multiplat, was ranked higher up than Resistance and inFAMOUS, which were AAA-scoring PS3 exclusives. Notice the logic-defying entries I was talking about now? Point debunk attempt...debunked :)

*EDIT*

Burnout ALSO massively outranked Demon Souls, yet another AAA scoring, platform-defining PS3 title. Awe-inspiring, is it not?

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SilverChimera

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#93 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
[QUOTE="SilverChimera"]

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]GTA4 being a better PS3 game than Killzone 2 or Uncharted: Drake's FortuneVerge_6

Yet you seem to forget than GTA4 got a 10/10 in its review while Uncharted got a 9.1 and Killzone 2 a 9.4. Point debunked?

Burnout: Paradise, an 8.8 scoring multiplat, was ranked higher up than Resistance and inFAMOUS, which were AAA-scoring PS3 exclusives. Notice the logic-defying entries I was talking about now? Point debunk attempt...debunked :)

Reviews = one person's opinion. Notice how each entry has multiple people's takes on the game. This is also why reviews =/= how fun a game is or will be.
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abuabed

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#94 abuabed
Member since 2005 • 6606 Posts

I thought it was pretty clear by now

360 >>>>> PS3 - 3rd party

PS3 >>>>> 360 - Exclusives

GnR-SLaSh
That's what I believe too, to make things a bit clear though: PC >>>> Consoles - everything :P
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Verge_6

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#95 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="SilverChimera"]

Yet you seem to forget than GTA4 got a 10/10 in its review while Uncharted got a 9.1 and Killzone 2 a 9.4. Point debunked?

SilverChimera

Burnout: Paradise, an 8.8 scoring multiplat, was ranked higher up than Resistance and inFAMOUS, which were AAA-scoring PS3 exclusives. Notice the logic-defying entries I was talking about now? Point debunk attempt...debunked :)

Reviews = one person's opinion. Notice how each entry has multiple people's takes on the game. This is also why reviews =/= how fun a game is or will be.

Now you've just entered apologist territory. Yes, it sure is logical to place a AA-scoring multiplat game above several AAA titles that are the backbone of the PS3 in a 'Best PS3Games' list. Am I the only one that is baffled by this?

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SilverChimera

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#96 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

*EDIT*

Burnout ALSO massively outranked Demon Souls, yet another AAA scoring, platform-defining PS3 title. Awe-inspiring, is it not?

Verge_6
You're proving my point more and more. It's your opinion that Demon's Souls > Burnout Paradise. And I like it better too. That doesn't make IGN's opinion "bad" or "wrong". Maybe they just had more fun with Burnout Paradise than Demon's Souls.
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SilverChimera

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#97 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts

Now you've just entered apologist territory. Yes, it sure is logical to place a AA-scoring multiplat game above several AAA titles that are the backbone of the PS3 in a 'Best PS3Games' list. Am I the only one that is baffled by this?

Verge_6

They have a different opinion than you. Get over it. If it bothers you so much, why don't you make a list?

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Verge_6

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#98 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]Now you've just entered apologist territory. Yes, it sure is logical to place a AA-scoring multiplat game above several AAA titles that are the backbone of the PS3 in a 'Best PS3Games' list. Am I the only one that is baffled by this?

SilverChimera

They have a different opinion than you. Get over it. If it bothers you so much, why don't you make a list?

Once again, another 'opinions are infallible!' misconception. I can't believe some people defend such a thing as this list. :(
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pstripl3

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#99 pstripl3
Member since 2007 • 795 Posts

ps3 owners with a pc gets th ebest of both worlds and we get most of the 360 games for free on pc cuz of piracy :)

Bladex2k
Agreed. Face it, if you own a 360, its such a waste. People wake up!
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Verge_6

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#100 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

*EDIT*

Burnout ALSO massively outranked Demon Souls, yet another AAA scoring, platform-defining PS3 title. Awe-inspiring, is it not?

SilverChimera
You're proving my point more and more. It's your opinion that Demon's Souls > Burnout Paradise. And I like it better too. That doesn't make IGN's opinion "bad" or "wrong". Maybe they just had more fun with Burnout Paradise than Demon's Souls.

This is a 'Top PS3 Games' list. You seriously, in all honestly, don't see the questionable placement of those titles?