Here is hard evidence that Mark Cerny is full of bullsh@t, just a lot of bullsh@t this lying fak

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Xplode_games

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#1  Edited By Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2228 Posts

Does anyone remember the PS5 reveal video with Mark Cerny? This guy went on and on and on about how the approach of fewer CUs at a high clock speed were better than more CUs at lower clock speed. He explained it really well too I guess.

I'm not a programmer but as a PC gamer that sh$t didn't make sense to me because I overclock graphics cards and it doesn't really do much. Yes sometimes it matters a little but the more you increase the lesser you gain and the more power it draws and the more it f&cks up your card and system and causes problems no matter how many hours you test it stable.

The better idea is buy the card you need for the performance you want and then do a mild overclock and that will give you modest performance gains and not too much more power draw or heat or anything.

For a console it makes all the sense in the world to create one with more CUs at less clock speeds. Because it you can turn off cores to get better yields as Microsoft did with the Series X, 60 cores, 52 active for better yields. Also the clock speed is high but not crazy super high so the system will stay cool and have a very long lifespan.

The PS5 has a dumb approach but it makes sense. The approach is lesser CUs at a very high crazy higher, higher than overclocked PC Radeon cards with the same chips high. And Mark Cerny claims this was done because it's the more intelligent better approach.

The reason it was done I believe is because the rumors were true that the PS5 has 9.2 teraflops. It was too late to change anything so they just overclocked the APU and then sent Mark Cerny in there to do damage control to explain how this is the intelligent approach and the 52 CUs as a much lower more stable clock speed is dumb and worse. It makes sense because they sort of had to to damage control and market the PS5. That's the only way it makes sense. But if that's true, then Mark Cerny lied to all of us. If that's true then no more quoting him as if he's some guru on this forum. He's a hype guy for Sony and full of it.

Yea Mark, the 52 CU approach gives you 12 teraflops, real teraflops not b$llsh#t variable teraflops like the PS5. And it give you a more stable, easier to keep cool and with a long lifespan but it's way more expensive this way.

You are telling me you believe Mark Cerny wasn't lying his arse off?

Some of the posters here are game programmers, right? You should know this stuff inside and out. Come in here and be honest with the forum, was Mark Cerny lying or was he right?

This is just my opinion obviously but I feel strongly about it. What is yours?

Don't get me wrong, I like Mark Cerny. He seems like a really cool guy. But he lied to us to shill for the company here works for. I just wanted to clear this up as there will be many performance arguments all gen over this.

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Techhog89

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#2  Edited By Techhog89
Member since 2015 • 4057 Posts

U ok?

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The6millionLies

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#3 The6millionLies
Member since 2020 • 519 Posts

I am not a programmer/ not going to say that he is a liar... But somethings he said doesn't really make sense.. if less CUs with higher frequencies was the new solution we wouldn't see Nvidia and AMD putting even more CUs to their GPU...If I am not wrong the 3090 has a lot of CUs and max frequency is 1.5ghz...

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supergokublitz

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#4 supergokublitz
Member since 2005 • 635 Posts

Wall of text!

I have never trusted cerny, hes a weird fucker!

He said that the xbox one x couldn't do true 4k with only 6tf. Gears 5 and red dead 2 spring to mind amount many others

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Xplode_games

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#5 Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2228 Posts

@techhog89 said:

U ok?

Yes thank you, just enthusiastic about the subject. More CUs at less MHz is much better especially for consoles.

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NathanDrakeSwag

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#6 NathanDrakeSwag
Member since 2013 • 14237 Posts

PS5 has all the lems and hermits on full tilt.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#7 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 7201 Posts

real teraflops not b$llsh#t teraflops

The most technical minded post on all of the internet.

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Gifford38

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#8 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 3326 Posts

yet the new amd gpu will have high clock speeds. no a lie its just a different approach.

the ps4 pro was the base model at a higher gpu clock speeds which got it to 4 teraflops. they didn't add a new gpu or cpu. they just it upped the frequencies of the gpu.

ps5 is 10.28 teraflops get over it. not a lie. the 9.2 teraflops was when they thought the gpu was only 2.0 frequencies instead of 2.23. if you do the math it = 10.28.

its cheaper to add higher clock speeds than it is to add cu's.

Some of the posters here are game programmers, right? You should know this stuff inside and out. Come in here and be honest with the forum, was Mark Cerny lying or was he right?

all of them has not use amd shift before and does not know how its used in the ps5. there is enough power there to run both at max.

so if worked for the pro it will work for the ps5. the ps5 gpu is the most highest clock gpu until the new amd cards comes out. cu's might be better but they both work to up the teraflop number.

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Xplode_games

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#9  Edited By Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2228 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin said:

real teraflops not b$llsh#t variable teraflops

The most technical minded post on all of the internet.

Lol, I made it clear I am not a programmer.

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The6millionLies

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#10  Edited By The6millionLies
Member since 2020 • 519 Posts

@gifford38: What are you talking about ? The PS4 pro GPU was a complete different GPU to the one on PS4.. it wasn't just an overclocked ps4 GPU..

Playstation 4 Pro GPU

GRAPHICS PROCESSOR : Neo

CORES: 2304

TMUS:144

ROPS:64

MEMORY SIZE:8 GB

MEMORY TYPE:GDDR5

BUS WIDTH : 256 bit

VS

AMD Playstation 4 GPU

GRAPHICS PROCESSOR : Liverpool

CORES : 1152

TMUS : 72

ROPS : 32

MEMORY SIZE : 8 GB

MEMORY TYPE : GDDR5

BUS WIDTH : 256 bit

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Ghost_of_Phobos

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#11 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 757 Posts

We'll have to wait and see. But I'll say what I've said at the time, the idea that Cerny's presentation was aimed at developers is hilarious, that was a marketing move, no doubt.

But Sony's approach of a cheap GPU, cheap cooling solution and cheap form factor allowed them to place budget in other areas like a super fast SSD and the new controller(lol). We'll see soon enough who made the best choices overall.

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osan0

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#12  Edited By osan0
Member since 2004 • 16028 Posts

I think he said he preferred fewer CUs at higher clocks to more CUs at lower clocks. he never claimed that the PS5 was more powerful than the xbox....just to be clear. that was people misinterpreting what he said.

I can really only speculate why here but i think he saw the Vega64 and freaked out. If something is wrong with an AMD GPU, chances are the root of the problem lies in the vega 64 :P. even if its a pre vega gpu...still a vega problem.

in all seriousness though: generally the TC is right. More CUs means more performance. Graphics workloads generally scale well across multiple shaders...its why GPUs are the way they are. i did some rough numbers ages back comparing a clock adjusted 2080 to a 2080TI and the numbers do indicate that the extra CUs in the 2080TI do actually contribute quite a lot. the architecture scales well.

One big exception to this is the Vega 64 (and maybe fiji...i cant remember). the architecture was shockingly inefficient. According to an article by Sapphire (who know a thing or 2 about AMD GPUs) only about 60% of the CUs in a vega 64 were effective in games. so that's roughly 40 of the CUs being used. That is horrendous.

This bears out in benchmarks too. I think DF have a vid floating around that shows a Vega 56 and 64 basically offering the same performance when the clocks match: so the 8 extra CUs in the V64 are useless.

On paper, looking at the sheer resources that go into making a vega 64, it should have given the 1080TI a bloody nose. but it didn't and it wasn't even close.

That can't happen in a console. you cant have a GPU where devs are really struggeling to get the CUs working. thats just leaving money on the table.

I can only guess that Sony were not confident that AMD would solve this problem and, using vega data, surmised that a 36CU GPU with higher clocks would hit the price/performance sweet spot. Based on what we know now (though RDNA2 has not been independently tested yet) it looks like sony made the wrong call on that one.

That's only my speculation though.

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Zero_epyon

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#13 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 15831 Posts

@the6millionlies said:

I am not a programmer/ not going to say that he is a liar... But somethings he said doesn't really make sense.. if less CUs with higher frequencies was the new solution we wouldn't see Nvidia and AMD putting even more CUs to their GPU...If I am not wrong the 3090 has a lot of CUs and max frequency is 1.5ghz...

So the RX 6800 has more CUs but also has higher clock speeds. The Series X GPU is clocked at 1.8Ghz. The RX 6800 has a similar base clock and 8 more CUs, but has a boost clock up to 2.1Ghz. The Series X does not boost.

The 6800 XT has 72 CUs, 20 more CUs than the Series X. If CU count alone was the main factor here, then AMD didn't need to give the 6800 XT a base clock of 2.1Ghz with a boost clock of 2.25Ghz. AMD can get away with doing high clocks and CU count because the 6800 cards are desktop cards. For consoles, they have to consider heat, power, and cost.

It's highly likely that the PS5's setup was due to cost. Sony can get the PS5 to boost high enough to reach a certain performance target while using dynamic/reconstruction techniques to get the image the rest of the way to 4k/60 or whatever the end goal of the game is. And obviously, more CUs at higher than base clocks would generate more heat than they wanted to. That's my take anyway.

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Shmiity

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#14 Shmiity
Member since 2006 • 6613 Posts

@Xplode_games Hat tip to you for probably the funniest thread title I have read on my 16 years on the site. It just struck me as really funny. Avoiding the censor and running out of characters. Great. I dont really have an opinion on the content- I just wanted you to know.

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Sagemode87

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#15 Sagemode87
Member since 2013 • 2014 Posts

Lems are shook at PS5 having the best looking games and best controller.

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Zero_epyon

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#16 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 15831 Posts
@gifford38 said:

yet the new amd gpu will have high clock speeds. no a lie its just a different approach.

the ps4 pro was the base model at a higher gpu clock speeds which got it to 4 teraflops. they didn't add a new gpu or cpu. they just it upped the frequencies of the gpu.

ps5 is 10.28 teraflops get over it. not a lie. the 9.2 teraflops was when they thought the gpu was only 2.0 frequencies instead of 2.23. if you do the math it = 10.28.

its cheaper to add higher clock speeds than it is to add cu's.

Some of the posters here are game programmers, right? You should know this stuff inside and out. Come in here and be honest with the forum, was Mark Cerny lying or was he right?

all of them has not use amd shift before and does not know how its used in the ps5. there is enough power there to run both at max.

so if worked for the pro it will work for the ps5. the ps5 gpu is the most highest clock gpu until the new amd cards comes out. cu's might be better but they both work to up the teraflop number.

"the ps4 pro was the base model at a higher gpu clock speeds which got it to 4 teraflops. they didn't add a new gpu or cpu. they just it upped the frequencies of the gpu."

I don't think that's true. The PS4 used a Polaris GPU which wasn't the same GPU in the PS4. It was more than just a boost in clocks. And the boost if clocks were within ~100Mhz. What remained the same was the jaguar CPUs and those were just a bump in frequency.

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lamprey263

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#17 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 37728 Posts

So basically just asserting it was always a 9.2TF machine until the Series X made them feel too inadequate so Sony quietly over-clocked it, added a pricier cooling solution... I have considered as much.

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#18 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7822 Posts

They did it to close the TFLOP gap for marketing reasons, its already proven that overclocked a card with less cores isn't always going to beat the card above it. It comes close but rarely beats it... The difference between a XSX and PS5 CU count is more than just one card gap its like two card gap in CU count.

They spent a chunk of the conference talking about TFLOPS so it makes me very aware that they wanted to cover up the lack of it. Its the oldest trick in marketing.

They put all the egg's in NVME performance, we will see if it pays off.

That chip in the PS5 is a slightly slower than a 6700 and the XSX is between a 6700XT and 6800 in terms of CU counts. That's a noticeable gap.

4K vs 1600-1800p all over again.

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Gifford38

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#19  Edited By Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 3326 Posts

@ghost_of_phobos said:

We'll have to wait and see. But I'll say what I've said at the time, the idea that Cerny's presentation was aimed at developers is hilarious, that was a marketing move, no doubt.

But Sony's approach of a cheap GPU, cheap cooling solution and cheap form factor allowed them to place budget in other areas like a super fast SSD and the new controller(lol). We'll see soon enough who made the best choices overall.

so liquid metal that they took 2 years testing it is cheap cooling? that huge heat sink is not cheap either considering they formed it to operate like a vapor chamber on top a a custom made huge ass fan that goes through the entire system. they didn't say heah lets make a weaker console so we can have a faster ssd. sony just has a different approach than xbox. do you want these system do be identical?

um a cheap gpu? isn't it the same gpu as the series x? the only difference one has a higher clock frequency the other has more cu's.

they did it with the ps4 pro. now they added a new cooling solution for those high frequencies.

they both have great working console coming over the launch system of last gen.

both ps4 and xbox one were ugly and sucked engineered consoles that felt rushed.

lol cheap cooling? like you have know how much they spent on the cooling. when there engineering team took 2 years to balance the heat and the high frequency.

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Gifford38

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#20 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 3326 Posts
@the6millionlies said:

@gifford38: What are you talking about ? The PS4 pro GPU was a complete different GPU to the one on PS4.. it wasn't just an overclocked ps4 GPU..

Playstation 4 Pro GPU

GRAPHICS PROCESSOR

Neo

CORES

2304

TMUS

144

ROPS

64

MEMORY SIZE

8 GB

MEMORY TYPE

GDDR5

BUS WIDTH

256 bit

VS

AMD Playstation 4 GPU

GRAPHICS PROCESSOR

Liverpool

CORES

1152

TMUS

72

ROPS

32

MEMORY SIZE

8 GB

MEMORY TYPE

GDDR5

BUS WIDTH

256 bit

no but the main factor was the gpu frequencies and yes they added new parts. but nothing major. not much has changed though. they also made the cpu at a higher clock speed. most of it was just adding higher clock speeds.

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hardwenzen

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#21 hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 5010 Posts

Cerny has been lying his ass off since before the ps4 was even out. I knew he is full of shit, but when he spent 60% (another 20% about its audio and ear pictures) of the ps5 spec reveal conference talking about an SSD, i knew they had absolutely nothing inside the system that would impress anybody, especially when the much better X specs were already known to public. You think its a coincidence that we still don't have a die pic when the console is coming out in 2 weeks? The best thing to do is to wait for everyone to buy the system, THEN you can damage control on twitter.

I wish i didn't care about PS exclusives, cuz it sure as hell bothers me supporting lying bitches.

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Ghost_of_Phobos

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#22 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 757 Posts

@gifford38: Cheaper

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#23 Fedor  Online
Member since 2015 • 8211 Posts

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Phlop_Spencer

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#24 Phlop_Spencer
Member since 2020 • 1159 Posts

I sort of agree with OP. I think cerny boosted the frequencies in response to the xbone S ex. With that said, I’m eager to see how big the differences are between the nexbone and ps5 in multiplats.

Also, take a lude and have a nap op

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Sushiglutton

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#25 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 8304 Posts

And here’s evidence he’s legit: https://psnprofiles.com/Marcus

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#26  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 13123 Posts

They have different approaches to CU count and clock speeds, but at the end of the day, they both offer decent performance with the XSX beating out the PS5. They are both limited by power, heat, and a $500 price point. So, they can't go too crazy. Like I always say, if you really care about performance and specs, you should be playing on PC anyway. Just avoid the shit XSS and you will be alright.

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Bluestars

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#27 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 2048 Posts

are sony liars?

“we believe in generations”

yip liars

hah

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tormentos

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#28 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33553 Posts

@techhog89 said:

U ok?

He is just sad and confuse.

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hrt_rulz01

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#29 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 20383 Posts

@NathanDrakeSwag said:

PS5 has all the lems and hermits on full tilt.

Lmao, you cows are completely blind to your own hypocrisy... it's incredible.

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LouiXIII

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#30  Edited By LouiXIII
Member since 2015 • 9513 Posts

@Xplode_games: How can you make a thread about someone else telling a lie when you're lying about the teraflops?

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Pedro

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#31 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 45033 Posts

Cerny is the savior. How dear OP blaspheme his holy name.😂

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blueinheaven

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#32 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 5244 Posts

lolz? Intellectually challenged lembot attacks Cerny for alleged 'bullshit' when Flip Flop Phil tells everyone nobody gets left behind and all new games support Xbox One then says oh no I meant we leave it up to studios I wasn't feeling well earlier and got it all wrong yeah absolutely no bullshit from the Flip Flopper on literally a weekly basis even the Xbox studios have literally no clue from one week to the next what bullshit he is throwing at the media and if any of it is actually true or not.

Lems, self awareness, ne'er the twain shall meet.

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Zero_epyon

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#33  Edited By Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 15831 Posts

@blueinheaven said:

lolz? Intellectually challenged lembot attacks Cerny for alleged 'bullshit' when Flip Flop Phil tells everyone nobody gets left behind and all new games support Xbox One then says oh no I meant we leave it up to studios I wasn't feeling well earlier and got it all wrong yeah absolutely no bullshit from the Flip Flopper on literally a weekly basis even the Xbox studios have literally no clue from one week to the next what bullshit he is throwing at the media and if any of it is actually true or not.

Lems, self awareness, ne'er the twain shall meet.

That was a mouthful lol

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Zero_epyon

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#34 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 15831 Posts
@BassMan said:

They have different approaches to CU count and clock speeds, but at the end of the day, they both offer decent performance with the XSX beating out the PS5. They are both limited by power, heat, and a $500 price point. So, they can't go too crazy. Like I always say, if you really care about performance and specs, you should be playing on PC anyway. Just avoid the shit XSS and you will be alright.

Solid advice.

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lundy86_4

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#35 lundy86_4  Online
Member since 2003 • 57388 Posts

We thank you for your guiding light...

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blueinheaven

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#36 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 5244 Posts

@Zero_epyon said:
@blueinheaven said:

lolz? Intellectually challenged lembot attacks Cerny for alleged 'bullshit' when Flip Flop Phil tells everyone nobody gets left behind and all new games support Xbox One then says oh no I meant we leave it up to studios I wasn't feeling well earlier and got it all wrong yeah absolutely no bullshit from the Flip Flopper on literally a weekly basis even the Xbox studios have literally no clue from one week to the next what bullshit he is throwing at the media and if any of it is actually true or not.

Lems, self awareness, ne'er the twain shall meet.

That was a mouthful lol

Sorry man! Synopsis: Phil 'I must talk ignorant lying bullshit to the media every single day of my life' Spencer is the KING of bullshit. Just clarifying that inarguable truism.

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Ghost_of_Phobos

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#37 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 757 Posts

@blueinheaven: Are you ok?

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blueinheaven

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#38 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 5244 Posts

@ghost_of_phobos said:

@blueinheaven: Are you ok?

Completely. Are you? It must be upsetting having so little confidence in yourself that you're using your alt to post. Do you need help? We're all here for you.

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Ghost_of_Phobos

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#39 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 757 Posts

@blueinheaven: Better report me to the mods then. Anyway, just found your little meltdown funny.

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blueinheaven

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#40 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 5244 Posts

@ghost_of_phobos said:

@blueinheaven: Better report me to the mods then. Anyway, just found your little meltdown funny.

Meltdown? Just a reality check. You're not the first on here to hide behind an alt and you won't be the last. I don't report anyone, for anything. So sleep easy.

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Ghost_of_Phobos

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#41 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 757 Posts

@blueinheaven: There's medication for paranoia.

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ButDuuude

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#42 ButDuuude
Member since 2013 • 1769 Posts

Yeah, I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to believe this person on system wars over Mark Cerny.

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Xplode_games

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#43 Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2228 Posts

@louixiii said:

@Xplode_games: How can you make a thread about someone else telling a lie when lying about the teraflops?

I didn't lie about the teraflops, they are bs teraflops because the clock speed is variable so by definition the teraflops are variable. The teraflops are based on the clock speed. If the clock speed drops then the teraflops will also drop. That means the developers cannot rely on 10.2 teraflops when programming their games so the teraflops are bs teraflops.

The XSX has 12 teraflops always, they are not variable. Developers can target all 12 teraflops to make their games. The CPU as well on the XSX is not variable. The PS5 has variable speeds on their CPU and GPU, lol.

Sony did that variable clock so the console won't burn up with the overlock. Even though it's practically useless it's very useful for marketing purposes.

Have fun with your variable teraflop console. Keep telling yourself it's a true 10.2 teraflop machine.

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Pedro

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#44 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 45033 Posts

@Xplode_games: The frequency is variable. That doesn't mean that they(developers) can't run the game to favor the GPU over the CPU and vice versa. You are trying to make it out to be that the PS5 frequency is just randomly all over the place when its not.

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VFighter

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#45 VFighter  Online
Member since 2016 • 7585 Posts

Another quality thread on gamespot...(that's sarcasm by the way).

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Bluestars

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#46 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 2048 Posts

@vfighter:

and your appearance just lowered it further

well done cow

HaH

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LouiXIII

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#47 LouiXIII
Member since 2015 • 9513 Posts

@Xplode_games said:
@louixiii said:

@Xplode_games: How can you make a thread about someone else telling a lie when lying about the teraflops?

I didn't lie about the teraflops, they are bs teraflops because the clock speed is variable so by definition the teraflops are variable. The teraflops are based on the clock speed. If the clock speed drops then the teraflops will also drop. That means the developers cannot rely on 10.2 teraflops when programming their games so the teraflops are bs teraflops.

The XSX has 12 teraflops always, they are not variable. Developers can target all 12 teraflops to make their games. The CPU as well on the XSX is not variable. The PS5 has variable speeds on their CPU and GPU, lol.

Sony did that variable clock so the console won't burn up with the overlock. Even though it's practically useless it's very useful for marketing purposes.

Have fun with your variable teraflop console. Keep telling yourself it's a true 10.2 teraflop machine.

Someone sounds real salty xD I wonder how many cows are living rent free up there? If this keeps up we'll have to change your name to farmfresh_games :D

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Telekill

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#48  Edited By Telekill  Online
Member since 2003 • 9989 Posts

Eh... not going to bother reading a rant about how someone is full of BS when the one ranting prove they are full of BS on an almost daily basis.

You gotta have at least a shred of dignity first Xplode...

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Xplode_games

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#49 Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2228 Posts

@louixiii said:
@Xplode_games said:
@louixiii said:

@Xplode_games: How can you make a thread about someone else telling a lie when lying about the teraflops?

I didn't lie about the teraflops, they are bs teraflops because the clock speed is variable so by definition the teraflops are variable. The teraflops are based on the clock speed. If the clock speed drops then the teraflops will also drop. That means the developers cannot rely on 10.2 teraflops when programming their games so the teraflops are bs teraflops.

The XSX has 12 teraflops always, they are not variable. Developers can target all 12 teraflops to make their games. The CPU as well on the XSX is not variable. The PS5 has variable speeds on their CPU and GPU, lol.

Sony did that variable clock so the console won't burn up with the overlock. Even though it's practically useless it's very useful for marketing purposes.

Have fun with your variable teraflop console. Keep telling yourself it's a true 10.2 teraflop machine.

Someone sounds real salty xD I wonder how many cows are living rent free up there? If this keeps up we'll have to change your name to farmfresh_games :D

I am salty, that's it? Let's say that you were right, does that change the variable speeds of the CPU and GPU of the PS5?

You see you didn't argue the facts here, I guess you conceded that the PS5 teraflops are questionable.

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Xplode_games

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#50 Xplode_games
Member since 2011 • 2228 Posts

@Pedro said:

@Xplode_games: The frequency is variable. That doesn't mean that they(developers) can't run the game to favor the GPU over the CPU and vice versa. You are trying to make it out to be that the PS5 frequency is just randomly all over the place when its not.

I already said I am not a programmer and I am not saying the variable clocks will bamboozle developers and they won't know what to do with it.

What I am saying is that the variable is sh@tty and they did it so it won't overheat and they can control the temperature of the console. If they could've left it at 10.2 teraflops and 3.6 CPU, they would have. Instead they had to do the variable clocks because it was a last minute overclocking response to realizing Xbox owned them hard.