First Person Shooters on the Wii....

I made this. It's how I think first person shooters should control on Wii.

Movement is analogue.

Turning is analogue. 

Please comment.

Explain your more rightward angles thing.

Explain your more rightward angles thing.Jandurin

I made it look a bit close to the TV, but you get the picture.

Arrows behind the TV represent the view into the game world.

It would just control like that Red Steel video that everybody thought was impossible.

Won't work, really. You basically took a dual analog setup and turned it into a tri-analog setup. It's overcomplicated.Michael85

It wouldn't be complicated.

If anything it would be less complicated because it removes thumbling duel analogue that casuals can't seem to get a grip of.

im impressed. 8)

good post,dude.

Gotcha.  That would be awesome.  But, then, how do you see what is behind you?  Would there be a flip move that just turns everything around?

And/or directly to the right or left.

Gotcha. That would be awesome. But, then, how do you see what is behind you? Jandurin

Since steering and aiming would be seperated, I think that analogue turning would be most functional.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

Gotcha. That would be awesome. But, then, how do you see what is behind you? Lilac_Benjie

Since steering and aiming would be segregated, I think that analogue turning would be most functional. Certainly much better than pointing the Wii remote at the edge of the screen.

I haven't actually played any FPS on the Wii yet.  Wait, I did play Elebits.  Do most FPSs control like Elebits currently?

im impressed. 8)

good post,dude.jessesalinas

If you like it, then host the images yourself and post them on other Wii forums.

Spread the word. 8) 

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't.  Especially that turning around part. 

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't. Especially that turning around part.

NobuoMusicMaker

1. Crouching jumps are stupid, and impossible in most decent FPS games.
2. Sprinting is analogue. Turning is analogue.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't. Especially that turning around part.

Lilac_Benjie

1. Crouching jumps are stupid, and impossible in most decent FPS games.
2. Sprinting is analogue. Turning is analogue.

Uh in Half-life, all you do is crouch jumps all the time.

Sprinting is a button if you haven't played many FPS before.  BF2, DoD it's shift.  And turning... Red Steel explains it.  You turn too slow compared to KB+M.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't. Especially that turning around part.

NobuoMusicMaker

1. Crouching jumps are stupid, and impossible in most decent FPS games.
2. Sprinting is analogue. Turning is analogue.

Uh in Half-life, all you do is crouch jumps all the time.

Sprinting is a button if you haven't played many FPS before. BF2, DoD it's shift. And turning... Red Steel explains it. You turn too slow compared to KB+M.

yeah in HL but really it's not a realistic thing though.  Sprinting is a button on PC games because the keyboard is digital. with an analog stick you can determine the level of speed more natrually.

and as for the comparison to KB+M. if the developer allows you to adjust the sensitivity then it's not a big deal. we really shouldn't think in terms of kb+m anyway since ppl don't move as fast and accurately as a kb+m setup. 

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]

Gotcha. That would be awesome. But, then, how do you see what is behind you? Jandurin

Since steering and aiming would be segregated, I think that analogue turning would be most functional. Certainly much better than pointing the Wii remote at the edge of the screen.

I haven't actually played any FPS on the Wii yet.  Wait, I did play Elebits.  Do most FPSs control like Elebits currently?

I havent played Elebits but CoD3 had a very good control scheme. You should try that one.Weslii

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't. Especially that turning around part.

NobuoMusicMaker

1. Crouching jumps are stupid, and impossible in most decent FPS games.
2. Sprinting is analogue. Turning is analogue.

Uh in Half-life, all you do is crouch jumps all the time.

Sprinting is a button if you haven't played many FPS before. BF2, DoD it's shift. And turning... Red Steel explains it. You turn too slow compared to KB+M.

Am I the only one who gets chronically confused by Wii diagrams? :SVandalvideo

The only one that makes perfect sense to me is the green arrow angle things.

All the rest, I need to actually feel it and try it to fully grasp.

Maybe that means I'm not a visual learner?

I made this for no raisins. It just looks cool ^_^

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't. Especially that turning around part.

Ontain

1. Crouching jumps are stupid, and impossible in most decent FPS games.
2. Sprinting is analogue. Turning is analogue.

Uh in Half-life, all you do is crouch jumps all the time.

Sprinting is a button if you haven't played many FPS before. BF2, DoD it's shift. And turning... Red Steel explains it. You turn too slow compared to KB+M.

yeah in HL but really it's not a realistic thing though. Sprinting is a button on PC games because the keyboard is digital. with an analog stick you can determine the level of speed more natrually.

and as for the comparison to KB+M. if the developer allows you to adjust the sensitivity then it's not a big deal. we really shouldn't think in terms of kb+m anyway since ppl don't move as fast and accurately as a kb+m setup.

HL was the first game with it but a lot of current FPS use crouch jump as a way to imitate a higher jump.  Makes sense huh?   And sprint is being used on console FPS as a button.  CoD3 uses left analog button (L3) as a sprint button.

They can make the sensitivity so high that'd you reach behind no problem, but it's not an analog stick.  With the Wii, there is a certain point  where the sensor picks up that you are turning and stop turning.  You begin to turn with high sensitivity and miss your target because you couldn't move back in time to stop.  That's why Red Steel had slow turning sensitivity, and that shows the flaws in Wii's FPS logic. 

Red Steel controls nothing like what he's suggested.
ithilgore2006

Red Steel's turning wasn't even mentioned. 

So you're saying that to strafe left, you have to actually strafe left in a real life?Teufelhuhn

And to crouch behind cover you have to crouch in real life.

And to lean over from behind the crate you have to lean over in real life.

And to aim your shot have to aim in real life.

^__________^

This idea kind of eliminates the whole "sit back and play a game" concept. purplemidgets

What about if I don't want to sit back and play a game? What if I want to play something more involving? 

That's the whole point of Wii really. 

Sprinting cannot be analog. A sprint feature needs to be limited, and having the player only push the analog stick slightly up to run at moderate speed would make it too difficult. purplemidgets

Yeah, definitely a difference between walk, run, and sprint.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]So you're saying that to strafe left, you have to actually strafe left in a real life?Lilac_Benjie

And to crouch behind cover you have to crouch in real life.

And to lean over from behind the crate you have to lean over in real life.

And to aim your shot have to aim in real life.

^__________^

Those commercials really got to you.  Even Police 9-1-1, lightgun arcade sim that involves motion dodging, doesn't go that far.

Those commercials really got to you. Even Police 9-1-1, lightgun arcade sim that involves motion dodging, doesn't go that far.

NobuoMusicMaker

What commercials?

I don't care about Police 9-1-1. Lightgun arcade is not on the same level as Wii. 

 

What about if I don't want to sit back and play a game?

 Lilac_Benjie

There's always a time when you want to do that. You don't always wants to be jumping around while playing a game. That wouldn't make sense.

[QUOTE="purplemidgets"]Sprinting cannot be analog. A sprint feature needs to be limited, and having the player only push the analog stick slightly up to run at moderate speed would make it too difficult. NobuoMusicMaker

Yeah, definitely a difference between walk, run, and sprint.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]So you're saying that to strafe left, you have to actually strafe left in a real life?Lilac_Benjie

And to crouch behind cover you have to crouch in real life.

And to lean over from behind the crate you have to lean over in real life.

And to aim your shot have to aim in real life.

^__________^

Those commercials really got to you. Even Police 9-1-1, lightgun arcade sim that involves motion dodging, doesn't go that far.

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. 

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]What about if I don't want to sit back and play a game?purplemidgets

There are two other consoles that let you do that.

Even Police 9-1-1, lightgun arcade sim that involves motion dodging, doesn't go that far.

NobuoMusicMaker

Police 911 rocks. And that's actually what I was referencing when I mentioned it being good for an arcade game.

I pumped a lot of dollars into that game to beat it. Good times. 

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

What about if I don't want to sit back and play a game?

 purplemidgets

There's always a time when you want to do that. You don't always wants to be jumping around while playing a game. That wouldn't make sense.

Sort of like Laser-tag.

They should do LASER-TAG multiplayer online like this on the Wii.

I wonder if it would work.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"] What about if I don't want to sit back and play a game? purplemidgets

Hey for all we know, devs could TRY and make it interactive, but it'll end up like this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjLg1NeWDE8 

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]

How would you...

Sprint, Crouch Jump, turn behind you, aim and shoot, all at the same time.

Can't. Especially that turning around part.

NobuoMusicMaker

1. Crouching jumps are stupid, and impossible in most decent FPS games.
2. Sprinting is analogue. Turning is analogue.

Uh in Half-life, all you do is crouch jumps all the time.

Sprinting is a button if you haven't played many FPS before. BF2, DoD it's shift. And turning... Red Steel explains it. You turn too slow compared to KB+M.

yeah in HL but really it's not a realistic thing though. Sprinting is a button on PC games because the keyboard is digital. with an analog stick you can determine the level of speed more natrually.

and as for the comparison to KB+M. if the developer allows you to adjust the sensitivity then it's not a big deal. we really shouldn't think in terms of kb+m anyway since ppl don't move as fast and accurately as a kb+m setup.

HL was the first game with it but a lot of current FPS use crouch jump as a way to imitate a higher jump. Makes sense huh? And sprint is being used on console FPS as a button. CoD3 uses left analog button (L3) as a sprint button.

They can make the sensitivity so high that'd you reach behind no problem, but it's not an analog stick. With the Wii, there is a certain point where the sensor picks up that you are turning and stop turning. You begin to turn with high sensitivity and miss your target because you couldn't move back in time to stop. That's why Red Steel had slow turning sensitivity, and that shows the flaws in Wii's FPS logic.

Red Steel controls nothing like what he's suggested.
ithilgore2006

Red Steel's turning wasn't even mentioned.

[QUOTE="purplemidgets"][QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

What about if I don't want to sit back and play a game?

Jandurin

There's always a time when you want to do that. You don't always wants to be jumping around while playing a game. That wouldn't make sense.

Sort of like Laser-tag.

They should do LASER-TAG multiplayer online like this on the Wii.

I wonder if it would work.

Yeah, it would be fun if the laser guns had a medium-high velocity, and if you saw them coming you could try to dodge them in real time. It would be a fun online game.

:) 

There are two other consoles that let you do that.

Lilac_Benjie

Would you agree that a game that has this kind of setup should also have a traditional control option for people who want to play this game without all this complicated motion sensing, and don't want to buy a new console to have that experience? 

Currently, there is no subsitute for a mouse and keyboard IMO. But the Wii controller is still a little bit more accurate than dual analog sticks, from what we've seen so far.Timstuff

FIXED.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]There are two other consoles that let you do that.purplemidgets

Both Xbox360 and Playstation 3 use variants of dual analogue-trigger control schemes which stem from the traditional N64 setup. Wii is not about dual analogue.

HL was the first game with it but a lot of current FPS use crouch jump as a way to imitate a higher jump. Makes sense huh? And sprint is being used on console FPS as a button. CoD3 uses left analog button (L3) as a sprint button.

They can make the sensitivity so high that'd you reach behind no problem, but it's not an analog stick. With the Wii, there is a certain point where the sensor picks up that you are turning and stop turning. You begin to turn with high sensitivity and miss your target because you couldn't move back in time to stop. That's why Red Steel had slow turning sensitivity, and that shows the flaws in Wii's FPS logic.

NobuoMusicMaker

A lot of current FPS's use crouch jump? i'd say the vast majority do not. it's not and important feature. the only time it's used is when developers purposefully create objects for it.  the fps's for consoles these days are still taking a lot of influence from pc fps's. 

red steel using the edge to turn. it had nothing to do with the analog stick. the system the tc is describing is not red steel so why are you using that as an example for why this system wouldn't work?

Currently, there is no subsitute for a mouse and keyboard IMO. But the Wii controller is a lot clumsier than a normal set of analog sticks, from what we've seen so far.Timstuff

real life wouldn't be a subsitute for kb+m. they are too acurate.

as for the wii. i'm a big pc gamer and i was able to pick up the wiimote and start shooting well in 5 min. I can't stand analog sticks of the other consoles. it's like trying to draw with an etch a sketch. sure with a lot of work you might be able to get good but it's not as natural or quick to pick up. 

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]Currently, there is no subsitute for a mouse and keyboard IMO. But the Wii controller is a lot clumsier than a normal set of analog sticks, from what we've seen so far.Ontain

real life wouldn't be a subsitute for kb+m. they are too acurate.

as for the wii. i'm a big pc gamer and i was able to pick up the wiimote and start shooting well in 5 min. I can't stand analog sticks of the other consoles. it's like trying to draw with an etch a sketch. sure with a lot of work you might be able to get good but it's not as natural or quick to pick up. 

same experience, not as good as kb+m, but doper than twiddle stix

TC: i hope i interpret you diagrams correctly...

I disagree with your first diagram, especially having to hold the nunchuck low to crouch.  Those kinds of gestures might be very difficult to implement and not very reliable.  I still want a game to try it to see if it might work though

The second one makes a lot of sense, and it is something.  Sniping would still have to be a mode though, I dont know how the wiimote is supposed to detect that you put it in you line of sight.  Anyway, I've played most of the FPSs on the wii and your control scheme is better I'm sure.  Most importantly, you divorce the wiimote's pointing function from movement so it can be used for shooting exlusively.  Pushing the screen with the cursor is very cumbersome.  That 3d aiming is very promising, and i've never thought of that before. 

Here's the scheme I like, (maybe since its PC FPS derivative):

Wiimote: weapons controller, as if the game was a rail shooter if the game only used the wiimote.  (weapon switching: maybe +/- buttons, home pauses game, I'm flexible on this point though).  Actualy, I wonder why FPSs dont allow you to click buttons on screen to switch weapons). A button for shooting, B button for secondary weapons, gestures for actions (eg open doors like in godfather). 

z button : toggle stance; c button: toggle binoculars/ snipe

 Analog stick: moves the character in a static gaze--- forward, backwards, strafe left, strafe right (and all the angles in between)

For turning and looking: tilt the nunchuck left, right, up, down (and all angles in between).  Why? Because the tilting is by far the strongest motion sensing in the wii's repetoire.  Just look at how well wii racing games use it, or how great tilt works in SSX.  If you want to turn, turn the nunchuck like a key (clockwise for right, cc for left).  To turn faster, tilt it sharper.  This would require some discipline in holding the nunchuck.  This would be superior to PC turning and looking because it would be easy to go back to the straight ahead static stance: just hold the nunchuck straight. 

I'll admit your control scheme is more interesting than mine.  it's really "wii" if you catch my drift