DX12 Performance Gains Detailed

  • 89 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

http://www.developer-tech.com/news/2014/aug/13/directx-12-boosts-fps-50-and-cuts-power-consumption-half/

TL;DR: 50,000 draw calls on a Surface Pro 3 done in DX11 and DX12. DX12 version saw 50% more FPS and lower power consumption simply but increased CPU utilization with a lower level of hardware abstraction. Big gains coming to the PC in the future. Consoles do not have the bottleneck thus it won't apply to them.

Full writeup:

I'll preface this by saying this is for one tech demo that was ran on a Surface Pro 3 (Microsoft Tablet) with a HD4400 graphics chip.

The demonstration did 50,000 unique objects with equates to 50,000 draw calls per frame. They used procedural generation to generate the meshes which created the objects. Draw calls are some of the most expensive things a GPU does and is a huge software bottleneck as currently DX11 uses a higher level of hardware abstraction (one-size-fits all approach) that isn't easily multithreaded and is lower due to the higher level nature. DX12 provides a lower level of hardware abstraction (less one-size-fits-all) and thus allows for much better multithreading of draw calls and better CPU utilization reducing overhead.

The CPU will still be part of the equation. CPUs are still used to feed information to the GPU. The scenes are built on the CPU and then sent to the GPU through draw calls. Of course there are also ways to utilize the GPU to do certain CPU operations to reduce the overhead of calculations (physics for the most part). In certain situations it's faster to send time communicating information between the CPU and GPU, running the stuff on the GPU, and then sending it back to the CPU to finish building the frame than it is to do it all on the CPU.

Running DX11 they were able to get 19 FPS on this system doing the 50,000 draw calls. With DX12 they were getting 33 FPS. This also increase the efficiency of each draw call lowering the power consumption and heat of the GPU as it doesn't have to work as hard. Thus we saw an FPS boost and power consumption drop (which means less heat).

Now this is only a tech demo but these gains are very promising. This was a huge gain on a very weak mobile device. The gains will be reflected with more powerful hardware so with DX12 we should be able to see better CPU and GPU utilization allowing our existing GPUs to perform far better on games.

OpenGL 4.5 has also been released (or about to be released) and it too is focusing on lowering the hardware abstraction to try to get similar performance gains.

This all only really applies to the PC as consoles do not have that higher level of hardware abstraction because there is no need for a "one-size-fits-all" approach as a console only has one level of hardware. This has allowed GPUs to be used far more efficiently and thus has gotten better performance out of console hardware than comparable PC hardware. We saw a 50% gain in FPS here simply from better CPU utilization through a lower level API yet that level is still higher than a consoles so there is reason to believe that the consoles even get better utilization of their hardware. This is why despite the PS3/360 being so old, they could do modern rendering techniques even if it was at lower resolutions/framerates.

So don't think this is going to boost the power of the Xbox One. This lower level abstraction of hardware is loosening up a bottleneck that simply does not exist on a console.

Avatar image for cainetao11
cainetao11

38036

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 77

User Lists: 1

#2 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38036 Posts

Never bought into any of these things anyway.

Avatar image for ReadingRainbow4
ReadingRainbow4

18733

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#3 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

Bad news for lemmings.

Avatar image for daious
Daious

2315

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#4  Edited By Daious
Member since 2013 • 2315 Posts

I can't wait for the new cards to have full dx12 support.

I hope newegg has the sale they had for last year where r9 290x was 400 dollars a piece on black friday (but this time with the r9 390x).

Avatar image for chikenfriedrice
chikenfriedrice

13561

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

Well Phil Spencer already stated that DX12 won't do much for the XB1....so not really any new news for the console.

Will existing gpu's get updated? Like my 660ti? ( might be a stupid question )

Avatar image for MlauTheDaft
MlauTheDaft

5189

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6  Edited By MlauTheDaft
Member since 2011 • 5189 Posts

Nice find.

Here's ArsTechnica on OGL 4.5.

This is very exciting and I'm really looking foreward toseing where the APIs go.

Edit:

Don't think you need to point out that it won't help the Xbone anymore ;) I believe it's gotten through most of even the thicker skulls around here.

Avatar image for lostrib
lostrib

49999

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#7 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

Cool, hopefully devs will actually use DX12

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

Saying this for ages for console this will do nothing since consoles have lower over head than PC already,in fact in 2011 before the whole DX12 debacle one of AMD top guys was talking about draw calls been superior on consoles vs PC and that was PS3 and xbox 360 vs PC not PS4 or xbox one.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#9 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@chikenfriedrice said:

Well Phil Spencer already stated that DX12 won't do much for the XB1....so not really any new news for the console.

Will existing gpu's get updated? Like my 660ti? ( might be a stupid question )

Yes. GPU utilization will increase but not by a lot for most games. If your CPU limited now you'll see bigger gains. We'll see some improvements on the GPU side of things, especially in games that do a lot of draw calls. Even that bogs down the best of CPUs.

Avatar image for MlauTheDaft
MlauTheDaft

5189

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By MlauTheDaft
Member since 2011 • 5189 Posts

@chikenfriedrice said:

Well Phil Spencer already stated that DX12 won't do much for the XB1....so not really any new news for the console.

Will existing gpu's get updated? Like my 660ti? ( might be a stupid question )

Fermi architecture and newer I believe.

So yes.

Edit:

The reduced power consumption alone sparks my interest. This will mean improved GPU Boost due to lower temperatures.

Avatar image for Sollet
Sollet

8282

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#11 Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8282 Posts

@lostrib said:

Cool, hopefully devs will actually use DX12

This.

Avatar image for ShepardCommandr
ShepardCommandr

4939

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#12 ShepardCommandr
Member since 2013 • 4939 Posts

@Sollet said:

@lostrib said:

Cool, hopefully devs will actually use DX12

This.

Avatar image for chikenfriedrice
chikenfriedrice

13561

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 chikenfriedrice
Member since 2006 • 13561 Posts

@Wasdie@MlauTheDaft Great news...thanks guys.

Avatar image for topgunmv
topgunmv

10880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#14 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

Has microsoft said whether win7 will get dx12?

Avatar image for santoron
santoron

8584

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#15 santoron
Member since 2006 • 8584 Posts

Could really extend the life of middle class aging hardware.

Avatar image for RossRichard
RossRichard

3738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 RossRichard
Member since 2007 • 3738 Posts

@daious said:

I can't wait for the new cards to have full dx12 support.

I hope newegg has the sale they had for last year where r9 290x was 400 dollars a piece on black friday (but this time with the r9 390x).

If you bought a new GPU in the last couple of years, you likely already have a fully dx12-compliant card.

Avatar image for osan0
osan0

17817

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#18 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17817 Posts

very nice.

will DX 12 be a windows 8.1 (or possibly a windows 9) release or will it also appear on windows 7? if MS pull a DX 10 again then they will just shoot themselves in the foot.

it would be even worse if openGL4.5/5 works on windows 7. with OSX and linux getting more attention having that extra support would just be another reason for game devs to stop using DX for future projects.

Avatar image for FireEmblem_Man
FireEmblem_Man

20248

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#19 FireEmblem_Man
Member since 2004 • 20248 Posts

Impressive! I want to get a Surface Pro 3, and this DX12 will make it more power friendly.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#20 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@osan0: Depends on the direction they go with Windows 9. The rumor is it's going to be free for Windows 7 users so I could see them making DX12 Windows 8/9 and not supporting Windows 7.

I plan on getting Windows 9 if it's what the rumors say it to be.

Avatar image for papatrop
PapaTrop

1792

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#21 PapaTrop
Member since 2014 • 1792 Posts

I'm sure I'm still a few years off from seeing any benefit. I currently have a DX11 card and Windows 7, and don't think I'll be upgrading anytime soon.

Avatar image for foxhound_fox
foxhound_fox

98532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#22 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

I hope 32-bit Windows platforms are phased out for developers soon. That 3GB restriction on XP is really holding things back.

Avatar image for leandrro
leandrro

1644

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: -2

User Lists: 0

#23 leandrro
Member since 2007 • 1644 Posts

DX12 draw calls performance increase ? thank you AMD for making mantle and forcing them to move

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@MlauTheDaft said:

Nice find.

Here's ArsTechnica on OGL 4.5.

This is very exciting and I'm really looking foreward toseing where the APIs go.

Edit:

Don't think you need to point out that it won't help the Xbone anymore ;) I believe it's gotten through most of even the thicker skulls around here.

It hasn't you will be surprise at how many lemmings still cheer for DX12 as the xbox one savior,including Blackace,slimdogmillionar,stormyjoke,fast robby.. and several others.

Avatar image for glez13
glez13

10310

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 glez13
Member since 2006 • 10310 Posts

@RossRichard said:

@daious said:

I can't wait for the new cards to have full dx12 support.

I hope newegg has the sale they had for last year where r9 290x was 400 dollars a piece on black friday (but this time with the r9 390x).

If you bought a new GPU in the last couple of years, you likely already have a fully dx12-compliant card.

From what I understand, not a "fully" DX12 compliant card, just a card capable of using these basic DX12 functions. For actual DX12 specific graphical functions you will still need a DX12 compliant card like always.

Avatar image for papatrop
PapaTrop

1792

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#27 PapaTrop
Member since 2014 • 1792 Posts

@magicalclick said:

Yup, when DX12 was announced, I already know console is on its way to retirement. Xbox One is very likely the last console because when PC/Tablet/Phone all run the same universal games just as efficiently as console, the benefit of gaming anywhere anytime becomes much more important than stationary console.

Yep.

I wouldn't be surprised to see docking ports on future TVs that allow you to plug any device into the TV, and run it. Smartphones, tablets, set-top boxes, etc.

It'd be great if Sony/MS/Nintendo only made handheld consoles that had that feature. Take it with you to play on the go, and when you get home plug it into the back of your TV and pick up a wireless controller. There's no need to have stationary boxes.

Avatar image for HaloinventedFPS
HaloinventedFPS

4738

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By HaloinventedFPS
Member since 2010 • 4738 Posts

Low level API's won't make much of a difference if you have a good CPU, i remember saying this before Mantle came out & a lot of people said i was wrong, then came the benchmark's, 5% gains at best if you had an i5/7, especially if it was OC'd, more like 2% gains

There is some advantages though, no micro stuttering & better crossfire scaling, which Mantle provides & i hope DX12 provides something similar

Avatar image for Salt_The_Fries
Salt_The_Fries

12480

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#30 Salt_The_Fries
Member since 2008 • 12480 Posts

@Wasdie said:

http://www.developer-tech.com/news/2014/aug/13/directx-12-boosts-fps-50-and-cuts-power-consumption-half/

TL;DR: 50,000 draw calls on a Surface Pro 3 done in DX11 and DX12. DX12 version saw 50% more FPS and lower power consumption simply but increased CPU utilization with a lower level of hardware abstraction. Big gains coming to the PC in the future. Consoles do not have the bottleneck thus it won't apply to them.

Full writeup:

I'll preface this by saying this is for one tech demo that was ran on a Surface Pro 3 (Microsoft Tablet) with a HD4400 graphics chip.

The demonstration did 50,000 unique objects with equates to 50,000 draw calls per frame. They used procedural generation to generate the meshes which created the objects. Draw calls are some of the most expensive things a GPU does and is a huge software bottleneck as currently DX11 uses a higher level of hardware abstraction (one-size-fits all approach) that isn't easily multithreaded and is lower due to the higher level nature. DX12 provides a lower level of hardware abstraction (less one-size-fits-all) and thus allows for much better multithreading of draw calls and better CPU utilization reducing overhead.

The CPU will still be part of the equation. CPUs are still used to feed information to the GPU. The scenes are built on the CPU and then sent to the GPU through draw calls. Of course there are also ways to utilize the GPU to do certain CPU operations to reduce the overhead of calculations (physics for the most part). In certain situations it's faster to send time communicating information between the CPU and GPU, running the stuff on the GPU, and then sending it back to the CPU to finish building the frame than it is to do it all on the CPU.

Running DX11 they were able to get 19 FPS on this system doing the 50,000 draw calls. With DX12 they were getting 33 FPS. This also increase the efficiency of each draw call lowering the power consumption and heat of the GPU as it doesn't have to work as hard. Thus we saw an FPS boost and power consumption drop (which means less heat).

Now this is only a tech demo but these gains are very promising. This was a huge gain on a very weak mobile device. The gains will be reflected with more powerful hardware so with DX12 we should be able to see better CPU and GPU utilization allowing our existing GPUs to perform far better on games.

OpenGL 4.5 has also been released (or about to be released) and it too is focusing on lowering the hardware abstraction to try to get similar performance gains.

This all only really applies to the PC as consoles do not have that higher level of hardware abstraction because there is no need for a "one-size-fits-all" approach as a console only has one level of hardware. This has allowed GPUs to be used far more efficiently and thus has gotten better performance out of console hardware than comparable PC hardware. We saw a 50% gain in FPS here simply from better CPU utilization through a lower level API yet that level is still higher than a consoles so there is reason to believe that the consoles even get better utilization of their hardware. This is why despite the PS3/360 being so old, they could do modern rendering techniques even if it was at lower resolutions/framerates.

So don't think this is going to boost the power of the Xbox One. This lower level abstraction of hardware is loosening up a bottleneck that simply does not exist on a console.

But surely it could amount to mustering another 12p, just like Metro Redux devs did?

Avatar image for GrenadeLauncher
GrenadeLauncher

6843

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31 GrenadeLauncher
Member since 2004 • 6843 Posts

Most DX12 improvements are already on the Xbone anyway. Sorry lemrats.

Avatar image for Heil68
Heil68

60714

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#32 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60714 Posts

Consoles do not have the bottleneck thus it won't apply to them.

poor lems cant catch a break.

Avatar image for Salt_The_Fries
Salt_The_Fries

12480

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#33 Salt_The_Fries
Member since 2008 • 12480 Posts

@Heil68 said:

Consoles do not have the bottleneck thus it won't apply to them.

poor lems cant catch a break.

I see you're too busy having Broshida's dong in your mouth anyway.

Avatar image for topgunmv
topgunmv

10880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#34  Edited By topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

@glez13 said:

@RossRichard said:

@daious said:

I can't wait for the new cards to have full dx12 support.

I hope newegg has the sale they had for last year where r9 290x was 400 dollars a piece on black friday (but this time with the r9 390x).

If you bought a new GPU in the last couple of years, you likely already have a fully dx12-compliant card.

From what I understand, not a "fully" DX12 compliant card, just a card capable of using these basic DX12 functions. For actual DX12 specific graphical functions you will still need a DX12 compliant card like always.

While what you say makes sense, I haven't seen any news sources reporting that.

Avatar image for Kinthalis
Kinthalis

5503

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#35 Kinthalis
Member since 2002 • 5503 Posts

@Wasdie said:

Consoles do not have the bottleneck thus it won't apply to them.

Consoles absolutley DO have a bottleneck.. it's called their crappy AMD CPU's.

Avatar image for FoxbatAlpha
FoxbatAlpha

10669

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36 FoxbatAlpha
Member since 2009 • 10669 Posts

So it doesn't cure a bottleneck that isn't there so just immediately rule out all the other benefits. Cows around here still only here what they want to. Dumb.

Avatar image for Kinthalis
Kinthalis

5503

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By Kinthalis
Member since 2002 • 5503 Posts

@tormentos said:

Saying this for ages for console this will do nothing since consoles have lower over head than PC already,in fact in 2011 before the whole DX12 debacle one of AMD top guys was talking about draw calls been superior on consoles vs PC and that was PS3 and xbox 360 vs PC not PS4 or xbox one.

That was also consoles vs DX9, NOT DX 11.

Avatar image for Oemenia
Oemenia

10416

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: -2

User Lists: 0

#43 Oemenia
Member since 2003 • 10416 Posts

Always so much insecurity frothing from fanboy mouths, Im sure you guys were saying console optimisation was a myth not long ago. Its as pathetic as bashing console games only to go begging for them.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#44 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@HaloinventedFPS said:

Low level API's won't make much of a difference if you have a good CPU, i remember saying this before Mantle came out & a lot of people said i was wrong, then came the benchmark's, 5% gains at best if you had an i5/7, especially if it was OC'd, more like 2% gains

There is some advantages though, no micro stuttering & better crossfire scaling, which Mantle provides & i hope DX12 provides something similar

Nah you can still bottleneck a good CPU without proper multithreading. A single core tends to spend a lot of time waiting for memory calls and whatnot. Multiple cores can distribute this far better.

Planetside 2 is a poster child of this. The CPU utilization is just horrible. Even on the best CPUs that are overclocked framerates die in big battles because of poor CPU utilization. They are kind of stuck though thanks to the DX9 rendered. Lots of wasted CPU time just waiting for other hardware to get its crap done.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#45  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

Don't derail the thread.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#47 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@Kinthalis said:

@Wasdie said:

Consoles do not have the bottleneck thus it won't apply to them.

Consoles absolutley DO have a bottleneck.. it's called their crappy AMD CPU's.

Way to ignore everything I said and bring up something completely unrelated. Bravo. You're making us PC gamers look really good.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#48 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@GrenadeLauncher said:

Most DX12 improvements are already on the Xbone anyway. Sorry lemrats.

They were also on the PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, and PS4. Basically any game console with a dedicated GPU.

The PC has been the only platform with this bottleneck unless there was a graphics API written for a specific GPU/CPU combination (which there were a few I believe). The big ones, OpenGL and Direct3D, were built as "one-size-fits-all" for wide hardware compatibility and thus were higher level.

Avatar image for uninspiredcup
uninspiredcup

58965

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 86

User Lists: 2

#49 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58965 Posts

Still waiting on FF14 to get DX11.