@darkangel115: Its seem like they just didnt even listen to Cerny trying find the next bad news about the x1
Devs React to DX 12 Doubling Xbox One GPU Speed
Well, while you guys rush out to buy a $500 console that needs to go meditate with monks in the Himilayas for the next few years seeking it's "true self", the rest of us will be happy with our PS4s that hit the ground running and continue to put you guys on the search for Shangri'lah each and every day.
Lems, gather around your new mascot and enter deep meditation. XBone hidden power is like a Spirit Bomb. We need you all to send your energy to the XBone now to unlock the hidden powahs insyde.
@Opus_Rea-333 said:
MisterXmedia redeemed, sorry haters
if only a drop of what thats sites becomes truth then we can be assured MS will continue unlocking power by 10% to 50% until the end of the gen. And Xbox One like they says 2-3 times more powerful than PS4. ;)
sauce: Microsoft may unlock "hidden" Xbox One performance boosts in time, suggests Witcher 3 dev
If you believe, then you shall be HEALED!
@darkangel115 said:
I'm gonna leave this here
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/windows-7-performance,2476-10.html
[quote]
However, the most noticeable differences show up when you compare Windows 7 and Windows Vista doing everyday operating system operations. Startup, standby, and hibernation are much faster, proving that Microsoft had to turn many things upside down to reach these performance benefits. Given the fact that Windows 7 is more aggressive when it comes to performance versus power saving, considering the tangible performance benefits, and having felt the improved experience when handling Windows 7, our conclusion is rather strong this time: should you want to improve your Windows-based system, now is the time to change up to the next-generation edition—provided that you find driver support for all of your components, which may be particularly tricky for some notebooks.
Our conclusion is not only valid for fast PCs but also for all systems that aren’t top of the line anymore. We’ve installed Windows 7 onto many different systems and found that the new OS is even more favorable if your system hardware isn’t particularly fast. For instance, we noticed significant differences between Windows Vista and Windows 7 on Atom-based netbooks. Windows 7 showed much less stuttering than Windows XP and Vista. Just make sure you have enough RAM for Windows 7, as insufficient memory will slow down any system on every OS.[/quote]
As you see, upgrading form windows vista to windows 7 provided a performance boost in the same PC with the same hardware (you can read the whole link for more details) 18FPS higher on L4D using the same GPU and CPU and RAM etc. Now this is a broad spectrum but they did note that every PC they tested even low end ones seen a significant boost in performance when upgrading from vista to windows 7. This is real life proof that software does in fact increase performance of hardware. I mean any hermit here will attest to the difference updated drivers make for their GPUs in games performance. So why do the hardcore cows refuse to believe this is impossible?
Now mind you I'm not in anyway stating anything specific except that, if anything has been proven, its that consoles games will look better and run better over the course of the gen. This has been proven time and time again. MS has been a leader in the software industry for well over 20 years and still going strong, Do people actually believe there is no way that MS will increase game performance on the xbox one? Or is it fanboy drivel. Sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself "what am i really saying here" because the fact people refuse to believe in something that has been proven to be true time and time again is rather sad. I guess some people are incapable of learning.
Yes that mean that ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl hardware get the same boost because the OS is better,not this one get a performance boost and this other same hardware doesn't.
The xbox one is not windows 7 or Vista is a damn console that already runs a modify windows version,so yeah the xbox one ins't getting a damn freaking OS is getting a damn API upgrade oh wait it already has it,the xbox one API is not the same as windows,is already modify.
You fanboys will never get it,grab your self a damn chair so you can wait for the magical performance boost..lol
@Tighaman said:
@misterpmedia: thats yall problem everytime someone hit you fanboyswith some knowlegde instead of you listening you go into the misterx excuse when all you got to do is go back to the arch panel from march of last year and hotchips and you could find out yourself the only thing that ps4 go going for it is a .5 more tfs and if you have to uses cpu offloading to the gpu, sound with gpu, and CUs for gpgpu that .5 disappear fast because the x1 has different processors for them tasks.
The PS4 has 10 Processors to help with task...Hahaha....
@Tighaman said:
@misterpmedia: the same interview about the rumors 14+4 cu use read it
Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...........Proved wrong already...lol
@darkangel115 said:
FYI the chip for the PS4 is very basic, It doesn't handle all the audio which is offloaded to the GPU. Cerny discussed this quite a few times. Also Sony skipped hotchips this year and didn't show off the PS4 for some reason. Both systems do the same thing, they just handle it differently. The PS4 has a stronger GPU, X1 has a faster CPU, X1 has more co-processors for offloading, PS4 uses GPU compute for tasks due to the latency of the GDDR5 and the CPU's sensitivity to it. Both systems are much more complex then the people here make them sound and why people cherry pick 1 competent of complex machines is beyond me because it'll never tell the full picture. I mean a mustang GT has about 50% more HP and cost about 40% less then a Lotus exige, Yet the lotus will accelerate faster (faster 0-60) Brake better, and handle better and will win in most race types against it. 1 number doesn't tell the full story.
No...
Is not very basic and doesn't offload to the GPU raytracing for audio is something that will cost performance wise on the xbox one as well,is not a normal process dude.
That xbox one doesn't have a stronger CPU the CPU is faster by 100mhz which is totally kill by the xbox one cumbersome hardware,worse the xbox one has 3 OS running,running an OS in hyper visions has a 9 to 12% CPU hit,non existent on PS4.
Which is why this in happening even with 100mhz faster the xbox one CPU trails the PS4 one..lol
What co processor the xbox one has for offloading,.?
Please name them 1 by 1..
Link to where it say the PS4 uses compute to compensate for GDDR5 latency you pulled that from deep deep down your ass,basically you aren't debating you are down right inventing sh** left and right,the PS4 does compute which isn't even doing much because it was modify to do so,Cerny claimed that compute may be the next big thing in a few years so they plan ahead which is way more than what MS did,hell the PS4 has 8 Aces and 64 commands the xbox one doesn't even has half.
That because on racing horse power isn't everything,torque,weight,wind resistance and other variables affect performance,the PS4 in this case is a Lutus but with more horse power as well than the mustang GT..
That was a sad analogy on your part.
@Tighaman said:
@misterpmedia: true audio TECHNOLOGY it got one DSP is not enough for all sound for the game and crosschat and etc dont say i dont know what im talking about. Cerny already said you will need help for the gpu for ingame sound that ONE DSP is not enough when the competition has a whole sound block with 4 DSP cores for sound try again.
No you biased lemming he say you can do ray traced Audio on the GPU,ray traced audio will need GPU time on xbox one as well,it can't be done by that crappy ass shapes sound ship.
Link to where is say is 1 DSP..
Also a single SPE on Cell was enough to do uncompressed 7.1 loss less sound,so i don't think AMD True Audio is behind Cell which is a 2005 CPU..lol
Most of the sound block of the xbox one is for Kinect voice recognition..hahahahaaa
Stated by Bkillian on Beyond3d,he worked on the xbox one sound chip...lol
hahaha Any other secret souse theory.?
@darkangel115 said:
As you see, upgrading form windows vista to windows 7 provided a performance boost in the same PC with the same hardware (you can read the whole link for more details) 18FPS higher on L4D using the same GPU and CPU and RAM etc. Now this is a broad spectrum but they did note that every PC they tested even low end ones seen a significant boost in performance when upgrading from vista to windows 7. This is real life proof that software does in fact increase performance of hardware. I mean any hermit here will attest to the difference updated drivers make for their GPUs in games performance. So why do the hardcore cows refuse to believe this is impossible?
Now mind you I'm not in anyway stating anything specific except that, if anything has been proven, its that consoles games will look better and run better over the course of the gen. This has been proven time and time again. MS has been a leader in the software industry for well over 20 years and still going strong, Do people actually believe there is no way that MS will increase game performance on the xbox one? Or is it fanboy drivel. Sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself "what am i really saying here" because the fact people refuse to believe in something that has been proven to be true time and time again is rather sad. I guess some people are incapable of learning.
That benchmark is really CPU limited and Windows 7 has lower CPU requirements leading to better single core performance
IIRC Valve also upgraded L4D to multi-threading for that benchmark.
And lastly, because developers also aim to push console hardware to max and always try to optimize as much as possible for max performance, developers can't do that for PC graphics cards so AMD and Nvidia have to do the optimization themselves at driver level, hence the performance improvements.
Consoles are already using very efficient code and DX12 won't make it any more efficient.
@tormentos said:
@StormyJoe said:
Look, I have been writing software for... well, more years than I care to admit to. And, I will tell you first hand that optimized APIs can significantly improve an applications performance, just like poorly written APIs can cripple it. So without having any benchmark comparisons between DX 11's API performance and DX 12's API performance, making a blanket comment like "Its all because of hardware piece X" is nothing short of pure ignorance.
The difference between the PS4 and XB1 is, in the large scale of things, relatively minor. If you apply Moore's Law, the difference doesn't even amount to 1 CPU generation (2 years). So, is a 1-2 year old high end PC that much slower than a brand new high end PC?
Yeah and you claim the difference would be 3 to 5 frames per second at the same resolution and you were totally wrong.
Problem is all consoles improve by API and the PS4 will improve as well so it nos like the xbox one will improve while the PS4 stay static.
Minor.?
Up to 30 FPS advantage in Tomb Raider while having better textures,better effects is Minor.?
Dude the difference in Tomb raider is so damn big it make the xbox one seem like it has a 7770 while the PS4 has a 7950 or even worse.
You people don't actually quantify the difference you really aren't.
Look at the 7770 vs the 7850 the difference is 13 FPS,look at the difference between the 7770 and the 7870 23 FPS,look at the difference between the 7770 and the 7950 exactly 30 FPS...
How is it possible that the PS4 commands a lead which is as big as the one between the 7770 vs the 7950.?
On average the PS4 version is 21 FPS faster, that is 7770 vs 7870.
Oh and that is without taking into account that while the 7770 is 30 FPS slower than the 7950 is doing exactly the same graphics,image quality is the same under the same setting,on PS4 vs xbox one that isn't the case either,the xbox one version has alpha based effects in parts at half the resolution,lower quality depth of field,reduced levels of anisotropic filtering and some lower resolution textures and 900p cut scenes.
So not only the PS4 commands a lead which go up to 30FPS it also do so while having better image quality as well which would make the gap even bigger.
16 ROP isn't the problem since the 7790 has 16 ROP as well and hit 1080p easy,is ESRAM the problem alone side the xbox one reservation on a GPU that was already weaker to begin with.
You keep clinging to that one instance where I was incorrect. Despite the fact that I readily admit it. It's kind of an honor at this point, honestly - I made that claim in August of last year, I believe - it's still the only thing you have on me. I have proven you wrong so many times since then, I'd need 1000s of lines to list them all. LOL!!!!
I never said the PS4's APIs would not be improved. However, I think there is significantly more room for improvement on the XB1 side than the PS4 side.
And yes, it is minor. You cows are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Lack of software optimization and poorly performing APIs easily dismiss the resolution/frame rate issue. The difference this gen is less than last gen, which wasn't that big to begin with.
@StormyJoe said:
You keep clinging to that one instance where I was incorrect. Despite the fact that I readily admit it. It's kind of an honor at this point, honestly - I made that claim in August of last year, I believe - it's still the only thing you have on me. I have proven you wrong so many times since then, I'd need 1000s of lines to list them all. LOL!!!!
I never said the PS4's APIs would not be improved. However, I think there is significantly more room for improvement on the XB1 side than the PS4 side.
And yes, it is minor. You cows are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Lack of software optimization and poorly performing APIs easily dismiss the resolution/frame rate issue. The difference this gen is less than last gen, which wasn't that big to begin with.
No is not clinging is telling you that your prediction have been wrong before on Hardware.
Dude i debated with you for pages on end to make it admit the PS4 API will also improve,and when you did you try to imply that the xbox one will improve more..lol
So basically you just ignore what i just showed you.? How 7770 vs 7950 is small? How are you claiming that the difference between those 2 cards is small.?
Yeah 30 FPS and while having better effects is minor... In your personal Disney Land,not it doesn't because the xbox one isn't 12 CU because of a poorly performing API or lack of software..lol
DX12 will not make the xbox one 18 CU and have parity with the PS4.
@delta3074 said:
No, DX upgrades are not the only optimisation the Xbone will receive in it's lifetime but DX upgrade will definitly make the xbone more efficient and allow developers to squeeze more from the hardware.
With the xbox 360 DX 10 did help to improve things because the Xenos was capable of emulating Certain DX 10 features, it didn't recieve an upgrade to it's DX but because the GPU was already capable of running various DX 10 subroutines it helped, Gears 2 and 3 use various DX 10 subroutines.
My god DX12 hit PC on holiday 2015 not the xbox one,the xbox one already has its console version which uses the hardware more efficiently,DX12 is a direct response to Mantle,Mantle is a direct Response to CONSOLES API.
Specially the one on PS consoles,even that DX on xbox 360 wasn't as low as the PS3 API use by sony,the DX version of the xbox 360 was lower level than DX PC,and in fact the xbox 360 spread its workload more efficiently that PC ever did,not to mention that developers who worked on consoles had a leg up on PC developers since coding for multicore CPU for games on 2005 wasn't available,CPU multicore use has its roots on consoles the xbox 360 3 core 6 threads,the PS3 Cell 1 PPE 6 SPE.
So basically PC is playing catch up with console API that is what mantle is,and that is what DX12 will bring to PC late like always by the way.
So you see the xbox one already has this,so does the PS4 LibGNM is like mantle alto sony state is not quite at driver level which is where they want to get.
The xbox 360 didn't run DX 10,it could handle some things but DX 10 not it can't
Unfortunately, none of this is true, according to ATI themselves. "Xbox360 cannot run DX10, and confirmed what I said earlier about the extended functionality. The Xbox360 has unique features including memory export that can enable DX10-class functionality such as stream-out," said an ATI spokesperson. "From what we're hearing, Crysis will support DX9 with some sort of use for DX10 features. It's likely that those DX10 visuals can be replicated on the Xbox360, but it can't be properly called DX10."
http://www.1up.com/news/xbox-360-upgradable-directx-10
Is not the same running full set that emulating some things.
@delta3074 said:
Nothing you said equates to the Ps4 being 50% more powerful, Dazzle us with brilliance tormentos, don't try to baffle us with bulls***.
Kojima already stated he was making the PS4 version of MGS better than the xbone and it had nothing to do with the hardware.
You are basically using your own flawed logic to try and justify a 50% Power increase over the Xbone by using one game, tomb raider
Everybody knows the xbone can render games above 720p which negates your 50% advantage BS.
You honestly don't think people will notice that you used the worse case example of a multiplatform game , you CANNOT equate the PS4 having 50% greater power using one game as an example, one game is nothing, means nothing
Also, the dev that made the claim about the Ps4 being 50% more powerful had this to say
'1. I am not doing a damage control, but I do want to clarify one thing. But first, yes, devs I know -- and as someone has shown it before in this thread, some other devs already talked about it too -- claim that there's 50% speed difference WHEN DEVELOPING in cross-gen/next-gen PS4/XO games. So there we are, I said it and I stand by it. Notice: WHEN DEVELOPING. It'll become clear in a second."'
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80542977#post80542977
So basically he said the PS4 was 50% faster to develop for, NOT 50% more powerful.
You guys should actually read what people actually write, not read what you want to see ,lol
Ok lets start simple..
1840 -1180 = 660.
Half of 1180 = 590
660 it more than half of 1180 it was more than 50% This is based alone in Gflops. This was with the 10% reservation on.
Now is 1840 - 1280 = 560 This is after the 10% reservation drop.
560 X 2 = 1120 Gflops Now the PS4 isn't 50% more powerful any more.
1280- 44% = 563.2 The PS4 now is basically 44% stronger,and don't tell me Gflops mean nothing that may be comparing the PS3 vs xbox 360,but comparing the same hardware it does matter,since the one with more flops perform better on GCN.
Please link me to where Kujima say that,because from what i know he say the difference wasn't big between both consoles,and then claimed it would look a little better on PS4 and they boom 720p vs 1080p with missing effects on xbox one as well.
Dude WTF the 7950 has more than 100% difference in power vs the 7770 and still the 7770 can render in 1080p what the fu** man,hell the 7770 can render in 2560x1600 that doesn't negate the fact that the 7950 is more than 100% stronger.
So at 2560x1600 not even the ROP stop the 7770,but that doesn't negate the fact that the 7950 is more than 100% stronger the 7950 is running at 45 FPS more than doubling the 7770 frames.
So yeah the xbox one hitting 1080p doesn't negate the fact the PS4 was 50% more powerful,in fact the xbox one should be pulling almost all games at 1080p because the 7770 can do it so can the 7790 as well.
So should i use Ghost which has 100%+ resolution advantage on xbox one.? Or BF4 which has 50% higher resolution while have like 25% frame boost as well,maybe i should use MGS5 which also has 100%+ advantage in resolution + effects not found on the xbox one version.
This difference are huge the PS4 is doubling the xbox one in resolution and frames,Tomb Raider is a good example because instead of focusing on resolution which isn't done much on PC it focus on frames which is the way it is done on PC,which allow one to make a more relevant comparison,the gap is not close by any means,BF4 also had a combined lead as well of both Resolution and Frames and this is the case,you can have both,you can have resolution advantage or frames advantage one thing is clear the PS4 will be ahead always.
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