Detective Vision.

I don't understand the obsession with Detective Vision these days. Almost every game uses it now. It's up there with QTEs for being the worst gameplay mechanic. Nothing breaks immersion and takes the fun away as much as this mode does.

Everything goes well during gameplay videos and then devs use this mode when showcasing their game for the first time and it completely turns me off. Why they treat us like brain dead husks? I'm sure we can handle one video game without magical Sonar Goggles while not having a mental breakdown.

Now someone is going to say "Then don't use it". I've tried that but it doesn't work that way because game expects you to use it which means sound is not designed to assist the player in this case and enemies aren't placed in levels smartly to have interesting encounters without being cheap.

It also means that clues aren't hidden inside the game's environment for you to find and solve a mystery in the process. Not only that but it also discourages you from reaching some tall building to observe your enemies and planning your next move because player is going to use this mode and everything will be served on a platter anyway, so who cares.

This mode alone takes away so many other elements from the game that can make the experience a lot better. Sure if you've made the game primarily without this mode in mind and then gave players Detective Vision as an option then it's acceptable. But that's exactly the problem.

Every game with Detective Vision feature that I've played is made with that mode in mind and you are forced to use it, because otherwise you barely hear footsteps of guards to mark their exact location, or encounter a place which allows you to observe your enemies, or get some scouting gadget to see what's around the corners, or find clues in environments to solve a mystery, or hear guards talking about some hidden item, or get your hands on some plans to see guards' patterns etc. Instead just press xyz key to see everything.

Over and over again I ended up pressing that magical key in these games to highlight everything around me, even behind several walls. I ended up playing 50+% of the game in black and white mode where enemies were red, allies were green and NPCs were yellow. Not a good way to experience game world.

Share your thoughts.

I can see the logic in Deus Ex because of augmentation but Mafia 3?? Assassins creed??

I mean how the hell it make any kind of sense in Mafia 3?? seriously??

dont use it

Deus Ex 1 did it best.

Don't forget "Time Vision" in Quantum Break. That makes sense because... reasons!

-Byshop

I don't see the big deal.

I don't want to play a stealth game like Dishonored only to be surprised by 50 guards when I turn the corner.

This allows you to prepare for a situation and think in advance, before executing your plan.

Most games I played also have it so that you can only use detective mode when standing still, as soon as you move it's off, and guards continue moving so it's not like a wallhack or anything. It gives you some elements to be better prepared, that's it.

Devs treat us like brain dead husks because the masses want to be treated that way.

That's been the general trend for a decade now. Too bad it still feels like we haven't hut the peak of casual gaming yet. We still have more hell to go through.

But but focus groups love it!

Tagging and Detective vision have ruined the genre. Well at least the former makes sense in games like Crysis or Deus Ex.

I think what TC means is that many games are using this instead of other more traditional and challenging ways to do the same. For example you can pick over a corner to watch the enemies or use security cameras or climb somewhere hiding while watching your enemies and planning your strategy. Detective vision basically replaces all these strategies and gives you an easier (lazier?) way to do the same stuff.

You can achieve that through sound and scouting devices.

Don't forget The Witcher, Uncharted and Tomb Raider! Those games hold your hand all the way to the end.

Good thread TC.....i could not agree more and that's something i have been asking for a while.

I have been passing lots of games just because of that stupid ability to see enemies through walls! It kills any challenge and sense of unpredictability.

There are some cool new technologies with sound coming up like this http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/ADAPTIVEIR/

Maybe new games will take more advantage of these. Hopefully...

It's even worse when every treasure or collectible is shimmering or glowing off in the distance. Why even have the stuff if you want everyone to find it anyway?

Well I know the answer. Endorphin hits. That's why games are so easy now. When the gamer feels good and powerful, they keep going. Why else would "clicker" games even be a thing? You literally just watch hit points go up without actually doing anything, but the brain feels content.

This happens a lot for me in stealh games. I lean around the corner and spot 3 guards, plan my attack, but the moment I enter the room, a fourth guard enters the room.

I don't see it as problematic that a game would let me know of this fourth guard with cheat-o-vision.

Not to say you should never get into situations where you have to react fast, but again it's nice to have all information in advance before planning an attack/entry. And let's be real: I don't think gamers would be willing to spend days staking out the place.

Sure, but if it achieves the exact same result... what's so bad about detecitve vision ?

I think it's ridiculous as well. Gamers now are borderline ******** compared to gamers in the past, according to developers.

Mafia 3.. even the mob has super powers now.

I've thought about making a thread about this but got lazy. This shit really needs to go away.

And yeah, don't even see why you got those super powers on top of health regen in Mafia III.

Yes, that's equally bad and the reason i don't buy Ubisoft open world games. Everything is schematical (you visited 1 /10 zones, you collected 5/50 items, etc, etc), every item is highlighted giving no reason to explore the environments, enemien can be seen through walls, etc...

Good thing there are still devs like Bethesda, CDPR and Rockstar, who respect gamer's intelligence.

ugh I hate using detective vision never liked it not every game needs to keep using it

Even when collectibles are shiny/sparkle, I still dont fine them all on initial run through of game. I feel I explore pretty well too, I trey to take every path available, but still miss them.

Many are still tucked away pretty well and you need a guide to find them

I'm in line with you except in the instances where it makes total sense, like in Batman Arkham series.

Gotta be realistic tho, i think they're kinda necessary for the mainstream and casual gamers .... i reached to this conclusion after introducing my friend to gaming, she was having a difficult to find a simple path! In Bioshock Infinite she highly appreciated that flash arrow because it was guiding her towards the objective .... so we gotta cut devs some slack, but i believe there should be a more creative approach regarding this matter.

Whacking off to porn also achieves the same effect as having sex, but it's much easier.

But you don't get all the satisfaction from chasing the girl and bedding her.

Pre-detective vision stealth games were just so much more satisfying than current games that rely on detective vision. And it rubs off on design too - designers won't drop clues in the environment to help you get the advantage. Instead, they'll just presume you'll use the feature.

The problem so much isn't that detective vision exists, but it's used as a crutch in modern game design.

One fundamental problem with stealth is that it's such a brittle activity in games. You spend say ten minutes observing, scouting etc and then you make one wrong move and hell breaks lose. You'll have to start over or fight your wait out, either way it feels pretty shitty. A few instances like that and I wanna play something else. For stealth to be fun it's super important (imo) that the mechancis feel robust, predictable and fair.

Now detective vision is a way to help out. It gives the player enough info to plan and to make sure he will not be suprised when turning a corner and stumble upon a guard and thus ruining 10+ minutes. I understand it's aesthetically ugly and make zero sense in many games. I do think that Arkham and Splinter Cell: Blacklist (my two favourite AAA stealth (I also really dig Mark of the Ninja) benefits hugely from their respective detective mode.

I understand that you are a much more advanced player (I'm not being sarcastic, I mean it) and that you therefor want to spend the extra time to find out guard patterns in more subtle ways. And that you are prepared/like to take the pain of failure every so often. I kind of don't like either that much.

That's cool.

Pretty much.

I'm indifferent on this.

I only used Detective vision once, and that is because the game told me to.

But yeah, I am not a fan of the feature at all.

I think Watch dogs handle itself well by just using the phone to connect to the cameras on the walls to get a better view of your surroundings and that kept me in immersion as I went thought the game without some detective powers.

Games like Batman Arkham or any other Batman game, he can get away with using Detective modes because that's how DC operates when it comes to this type of gadgets, so it doesn't break the immersions but anything outside of DC and such, I do agree that there are games that don't feel right at all when using detective modes but other examples like Watch Dogs does it well.

Not every game needs to use it,it's okay in the arkham games and in AC.

Agreed

Good thread, TC. I really hate that. The only instance I found that acceptable was Arkham series and I think even that too can be avoided. Fucking hate it.

I understand the mode breaks immersion but I honestly cant see a game like Batman Arkham working without it...

I think its a little petty of a complaint.

TW3 has it and that game is high up on many ppl' list.

Yeah, it made no sense lore wise. Just call it Detective Vision and be done with it. Lol "Time Vision".

I made a thread a while back about how every game has "_____ vision" even when the idea makes no sense.

-Byshop

then don't use it then, bragging rights

I hate detective vision. I'll agree its mechanically a shortcut that allows dev's to take shortcuts in level / audio design. Also if you have to use it its hard to stop using because you get so used to seeing all those pretty assets completely undone with everything you may want to kill highlighted. Stealth games are boring if they take all the tension out of the game.

I miss the days when games forced the player to evaluate a situation through various sources (sounds, sights, maps, intel, etc) and then relied on them to apply those things through skill in order to achieve the goal.

Games like Thief.

@waahahah: Agreed. Stealth game without tension is not that entertaining. Fear of failure to me makes the experience better like suspense in movies, except in this case you are the main protagonist.

What about "Spot and Mark" mechanics like in the Battlefield games and (more recently) Uncharted 4? They require you to physically see your target first, but then you can use a marker to keep track of them. Again, completely optional, but it forces you to be vigilant.

I really don't like it when a game is designed in a way where it must be used or you have no chance of progressing. I don't mind it as something optional, but forced is another story.

In The Witcher 3, the Witcher Senses are required during sections of the game to progress, you just won't be able to find certain things without it. For Quantum Break, it's there if you want it, but game progression has no reliance on it and you don't ever need to actually use it for anything, that's how it should be done.

that requires too much time. Remember most people just wanna "play games and relax"..

Yeah I am counting that shit here too.

Bingo

Nice sentiment but that's not possible in a lot of games. In The Witcher 3 I tried and you can follow foot prints and blood splats without it but try following a scent. You can't even move on with a lot of the missions without activating it first.

In this vein, detective mode actually makes sense. Witchers are able to focus their enhanced receptors to track monsters. It makes perfect sense in this game. Also, you don't use it in combat at all.

Don't get me wrong I'm a massive fan of The Witcher but the glowing trail to follow just feels wrong, it could have been implemented better rather than copying ideas from other games. Remember it does mark enemies as well so it can be used for combat purposes.

@GarGx1: Yeah not fan of that in Witcher 3 too. Witcher 2 did it better. Cat potion allowed you to see some stuff, that you had to craft. Rest was up to the player. Map was also not detailed.

@GarGx1: then use it only when you have to. Problem solved

It marks them because they make sounds and Geralt has superhuman hearing. It still makes sense in that context.

And no, that is not a combat purpose. Lol. There is no stealth, and enemies are never hiding on purpose(unless they are a foglet or a vampire).

What would be a better system, pray tell?