Defining a Hardcore Platform

For many years we've lacked a unified definition for what a core gamer is, or what makes a system a core system. No more - at long last, we have a simple means of knowing - Ikaruga.

Simply ask this question - "does this platform have Ikaruga?" If you answered yes - then it's a hardcore gaming system. If you answered no, then it's not. You can use this simple test with your friends as well - "Have you played a lot of Ikaruga?" If the answer is "no" you should introduce them to the game - if they take to it like a fish to water, they're a core gamer, if not, they're some other kind of gamer.

Using this standardized method will save you time, effort, and argument - finally, it really is *that simple*.

*looks up Ikaruga*

looks pretty hardcore, what with all the fancy polarity switching.

For many years we've lacked a unified definition for what a core gamer is, or what makes a system a core system. No more - at long last, we have a simple means of knowing - Ikaruga.

Simply ask this question - "does this platform have Ikaruga?" If you answered yes - then it's a hardcore gaming system. If you answered no, then it's not. You can use this simple test with your friends as well - "Have you played a lot of Ikaruga?" If the answer is "no" you should introduce them to the game - if they take to it like a fish to water, they're a core gamer, if not, they're some other kind of gamer.

Using this standardized method will save you time, effort, and argument - finally, it really is *that simple*.

subrosian

Are you just getting into Ikaruga?

and have you beaten it yet?

I have that guy in your sig as my Xbox 360 Gamerpic, nice avatar as well

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

For many years we've lacked a unified definition for what a core gamer is, or what makes a system a core system. No more - at long last, we have a simple means of knowing - Ikaruga.

Simply ask this question - "does this platform have Ikaruga?" If you answered yes - then it's a hardcore gaming system. If you answered no, then it's not. You can use this simple test with your friends as well - "Have you played a lot of Ikaruga?" If the answer is "no" you should introduce them to the game - if they take to it like a fish to water, they're a core gamer, if not, they're some other kind of gamer.

Using this standardized method will save you time, effort, and argument - finally, it really is *that simple*.

krunkfu2

Are you just getting into Ikaruga?

and have you beaten it yet?

I have that guy in your sig as my Xbox 360 Gamerpic, nice avatar as well

No, I was in to Ikaruga when it was just an arcade game in Japan, I just find it funny that everyone is just now getting into it (since it was on Dreamcast / Gamecube - but very hard to get your hands on). Thanks to the miracle of digital distribution it's finally $10 and available to everyone.

The downside has been that there are a lot of people now who "dont' get it" - they buy it thinking it's a SCHMUP, and they maybe beat it after a lot of tries and say "what was the point" - they don't get that it's about chaining, it's about enjoying replaying each level, trying to find new enemies, new things you can do - racking up those 10+ million point scores by playing artfully.

Anyway, the OP is just to get people interested - the real miracle here is that Ikaruga is back! And yeah my gamerpic is actually now Shinra as well.

nice joke?Popadophalis

It's not a joke - I've decided this is the fastest "rough method" of making people understand whether or not they're a genuine core gamer (as in, what core used to mean, not the bastardized system wars definition). "Do you like and understand Ikaruga? Y/N" that's it - if you can explain *why* Ikaruga is great, you're in, if not, you're something else - simple, easy, efficient. People like that, right?

I suck at getting chains so bad

I've the game for Dreamcast and it's much easier with an arcade stick

I can usually get somewhat into the 3rd level without dying on Dreamcast; I downloaded the trial on Live and can't even finish the firstl level with the 360 controller

I love it, but it's hatefully difficult. These guys had a chip on their shoulders when they made this game.

It should probably come with electric nipple clamps.

[QUOTE="Popadophalis"]nice joke?subrosian

It's not a joke - I've decided this is the fastest "rough method" of making people understand whether or not they're a genuine core gamer (as in, what core used to mean, not the bastardized system wars definition). "Do you like and understand Ikaruga? Y/N" that's it - if you can explain *why* Ikaruga is great, you're in, if not, you're something else - simple, easy, efficient. People like that, right?

While your method may well be convenient it's essentially flawed. Some people just flat-out hate old-school shooters, doesn't mean that they aren't hardcore.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

[QUOTE="Popadophalis"]nice joke?Popadophalis

It's not a joke - I've decided this is the fastest "rough method" of making people understand whether or not they're a genuine core gamer (as in, what core used to mean, not the bastardized system wars definition). "Do you like and understand Ikaruga? Y/N" that's it - if you can explain *why* Ikaruga is great, you're in, if not, you're something else - simple, easy, efficient. People like that, right?

While your method may well be convenient it's essentially flawed. Some people just flat-out hate old-school shooters, doesn't mean that they aren't hardcore.

I know that BUT Ikaruga isn't a shooter, it has much more in common with puzzle games, and only people who don't understand Ikaruga would say it's a shooter (not faulting you, it's a very common misconception).

So Dreamcast, GameCube, and 360 are the only hardcore platforms?
Isn't the 360 version modified, though?
EmilioDigsIt

The timings are tightened and one of the bosses spins in the opposite direction at the start now.

I know that BUT Ikaruga isn't a shooter, it has much more in common with puzzle games, and only people who don't understand Ikaruga would say it's a shooter (not faulting you, it's a very common misconception).

subrosian

Hmm sounds interesting. If I ever get the chance I'll definitely give the game a go

My platform doesn't have Ikaruga and yet it;s far more hardcore than DC, GC or 360. Falcon 4.0 alone is many times more hardcore than Ikaruga will ever beAdrianWerner

1. You should know me better than to think I would be taking a shot at the PC AND

2. A combat flight sim is NOT my definition of a clas sic core gamer - games like Ikaruga which defy definition, are only possible within the realm of gaming are. I'm not saying X-Wing vs Tie Fighter isn't seriously old school core gaming joy - what I'm doing is offering people who don't "get it" a game which is incredibly difficult to compare to anything BECAUSE

When you say Falcon 4.0, you automatically open yourself to someone saying "The 360 has Ace Combat! I'm hardcore, Ace Combat!" and they never *get it*. When you show them a game like Ikaruga, and show them S++ runs, they go "oh, this is a game that's entirely different, entirely beyond what I'd expect". There's a genuine amazement and respect and appreciation that's not going to come from ramming some PC-exclusive down people's throats - that brings up the console vs PC hatred, which really isn't what core gaming was or is about.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

I know that BUT Ikaruga isn't a shooter, it has much more in common with puzzle games, and only people who don't understand Ikaruga would say it's a shooter (not faulting you, it's a very common misconception).

Popadophalis

Hmm sounds interesting. If I ever get the chance I'll definitely give the game a go

I'd recommend it - it's a really good idea to approach it the same way you would Lumines or Tetris - thinking about placement and position. It's fast, which can make it hard when you start, but ultimately I think a lot of the people getting frustrated are doing so because there's no one there whose played it to say "woah woah, don't try and shoot everything on the screen - take it slow, play it slow, learn one group of enemies at a time, and you'll be fine".

There's a really mean learning curve there if you don't have someone to tell you that - it's really not a punishing game once you understand that it's not about winning, or being perfect right off the bat, it's about the fun of learning, and exploring, and saying "woah I pulled that off" or "hah! I found my own way to do this - and it's way easier than what the pros were trying!".

-

For example, you can get beat Ikaruga (the entire game) without firing a single shot.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]My platform doesn't have Ikaruga and yet it;s far more hardcore than DC, GC or 360. Falcon 4.0 alone is many times more hardcore than Ikaruga will ever besubrosian

1. You should know me better than to think I would be taking a shot at the PC AND

2. A combat flight sim is NOT my definition of a clas sic core gamer - games like Ikaruga which defy definition, are only possible within the realm of gaming are. I'm not saying X-Wing vs Tie Fighter isn't seriously old school core gaming joy - what I'm doing is offering people who don't "get it" a game which is incredibly difficult to compare to anything BECAUSE

When you say Falcon 4.0, you automatically open yourself to someone saying "The 360 has Ace Combat! I'm hardcore, Ace Combat!" and they never *get it*. When you show them a game like Ikaruga, and show them S++ runs, they go "oh, this is a game that's entirely different, entirely beyond what I'd expect". There's a genuine amazement and respect and appreciation that's not going to come from ramming some PC-exclusive down people's throats - that brings up the console vs PC hatred, which really isn't what core gaming was or is about.

So bassicaly Falcon4.0 is for hardcore gamers, while Ikaruga isn't for hardcore gamers, just for the most hardcore among casual gamers? :

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]My platform doesn't have Ikaruga and yet it;s far more hardcore than DC, GC or 360. Falcon 4.0 alone is many times more hardcore than Ikaruga will ever beAdrianWerner

1. You should know me better than to think I would be taking a shot at the PC AND

2. A combat flight sim is NOT my definition of a clas sic core gamer - games like Ikaruga which defy definition, are only possible within the realm of gaming are. I'm not saying X-Wing vs Tie Fighter isn't seriously old school core gaming joy - what I'm doing is offering people who don't "get it" a game which is incredibly difficult to compare to anything BECAUSE

When you say Falcon 4.0, you automatically open yourself to someone saying "The 360 has Ace Combat! I'm hardcore, Ace Combat!" and they never *get it*. When you show them a game like Ikaruga, and show them S++ runs, they go "oh, this is a game that's entirely different, entirely beyond what I'd expect". There's a genuine amazement and respect and appreciation that's not going to come from ramming some PC-exclusive down people's throats - that brings up the console vs PC hatred, which really isn't what core gaming was or is about.

So bassicaly Falcon4.0 is for hardcore gamers, while Ikaruga isn't for hardcore gamers, just for the most hardcore among casual gamers? :

*bangs head on table repeatedly*

No.

No.

No.

Consolites aren't going to get Falcon 4.0. You really want to try and explain the combat flight sim community to people and have them "get" why a game like Falcon 4.0 is so radically different from a game like Ace Combat? It brings up a great deal of comparisson, and platform elitism, and just other issues where it's hard for a person to immediately grasp. For example - Flight Simulator X, people are sitting around just as "air traffic controllers" - but is that core gaming, or is that a simulation of a real life practice, and an entirely different niche community?

Ikaruga is a game people can be exposed to, that definitely represents what the classic core meant, and those same people can now say (on a console, of all things *gasp*) "okay, this is neat, this is challenging, but it's really satisfying building my skills") and that exposes them to what those words and that play sty1e really means. Because sure you can point to Falcon 4.0, but that's not an entry path, it's a different community, and it brings up what I'd call an elistist definition of a core gamer.

I wish I can find this on GC :(

I might get a 360 just for this game...

I wish I can find this on GC :(

I might get a 360 just for this game...

Jakendo

With any luck it will come on Wiiware and PSN, along with Radiant Silvergun.

Consolites aren't going to get Falcon 4.0. You really want to try and explain the combat flight sim community to people and have them "get" why a game like Falcon 4.0 is so radically different from a game like Ace Combat? It brings up a great deal of comparisson, and platform elitism, and just other issues where it's hard for a person to immediately grasp. For example - Flight Simulator X, people are sitting around just as "air traffic controllers" - but is that core gaming, or is that a simulation of a real life practice, and an entirely different niche community?

Ikaruga is a game people can be exposed to, that definitely represents what the classic core meant, and those same people can now say (on a console, of all things *gasp*) "okay, this is neat, this is challenging, but it's really satisfying building my skills") and that exposes them to what those words and that play sty1e really means. Because sure you can point to Falcon 4.0, but that's not an entry path, it's a different community, and it brings up what I'd call an elistist definition of a core gamer.

subrosian

Ermm...sorry, but you're showing exactly what I'm talking about. Ikaruga is simply a game for more hardcore of casual gamers, since they have to "get it".

Hardcore game is exactly a game that casuals can't get. Since casuals can get Ikaruga, it's obviously not a truly hardcore game

and really...it's easier to explain diffrences between AceCombat and Falcon 4.0 than between any casual shump and Ikaruga

Compared to Falcon 4.0 Ikaruga is a casual game, especialy since it can be played and enjoyed like a casual game, when Falcon4.0 can't

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

Consolites aren't going to get Falcon 4.0. You really want to try and explain the combat flight sim community to people and have them "get" why a game like Falcon 4.0 is so radically different from a game like Ace Combat? It brings up a great deal of comparisson, and platform elitism, and just other issues where it's hard for a person to immediately grasp. For example - Flight Simulator X, people are sitting around just as "air traffic controllers" - but is that core gaming, or is that a simulation of a real life practice, and an entirely different niche community?

Ikaruga is a game people can be exposed to, that definitely represents what the classic core meant, and those same people can now say (on a console, of all things *gasp*) "okay, this is neat, this is challenging, but it's really satisfying building my skills") and that exposes them to what those words and that play sty1e really means. Because sure you can point to Falcon 4.0, but that's not an entry path, it's a different community, and it brings up what I'd call an elistist definition of a core gamer.

AdrianWerner

Ermm...sorry, but you're showing exactly what I'm talking about. Ikaruga is simply a game for more hardcore of casual gamers, since they have to "get it".

Hardcore game is exactly a game that casuals can't get. Since casuals can get Ikaruga, it's obviously not a truly hardcore game

and really...it's easier to explain diffrences between AceCombat and Falcon 4.0 than between any casual shump and Ikaruga

Compared to Falcon 4.0 Ikaruga is a casual game, especialy since it can be played and enjoyed like a casual game, when Falcon4.0 can't

If you played Ikaruga, at all, for any length of time, you'd recognize that your statements reflect a grave misconception of the game on your part. I didn't say casuals could instantly be good at it, or that it was even approachable. I said that *playing the game* would make them understand what a core game is about - whereas only a tiny niche of PC gamers ever even see Falcon 4.0.

What you're saying here comes across as utterly elitist - as though, god forbid, a casual gamer has even heard of your game, it's not core. And Ikaruga IS NOT A SHUMP. That's a common misconception generally perpetrated by casual gamers who haven't taken the time to grasp its deeper gaming, which makes it odd to hear such things coming from you :P.

Have you not played Ikaruga? Does a game have to be on PC for you to say "oh, it's core"?

That's rather sad, and I'm rather offended you'd come to someone such as myself in that way, speaking as though I'm some *detractor of the PC* given that I'm not (my name is at the top of the PC Harware Forum :) ) and that you'd speak in a way that perpetuates the kind of "PC Hardcore is elitist" mindset in SW.

If you played Ikaruga, at all, for any length of time, you'd recognize that your statements reflect a grave misconception of the game on your part. I didn't say casuals could instantly be good at it, or that it was even approachable. I said that *playing the game* would make them understand what a core game is about - whereas only a tiny niche of PC gamers ever even see Falcon 4.0.subrosian

And Ikaruga IS NOT A SHUMP. That's a common misconception generally perpetrated by casual gamers who haven't taken the time to grasp its deeper gaming

subrosian

Ikaruga has much more in common with shumps than Ace Combat has with flight sims and it;'s visible after 10 seconds of playing

Simply put Ikaruga isn't anywhere near hardcore enough game to define a "hardcore platform" on it's own.

Hecl tje mere though that one single game can define a platform as hardcore is just ridiculous.

Especialy since so far Ikaruga has apeared on some of the most casual platforms ever

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

If you played Ikaruga, at all, for any length of time, you'd recognize that your statements reflect a grave misconception of the game on your part. I didn't say casuals could instantly be good at it, or that it was even approachable. I said that *playing the game* would make them understand what a core game is about - whereas only a tiny niche of PC gamers ever even see Falcon 4.0.AdrianWerner

And Ikaruga IS NOT A SHUMP. That's a common misconception generally perpetrated by casual gamers who haven't taken the time to grasp its deeper gaming

subrosian

Ikaruga has much more in common with shumps than Ace Combat has with flight sims and it;'s visible after 10 seconds of playing

Simply put Ikaruga isn't anywhere near hardcore enough game to define a "hardcore platform" on it's own.

Hecl tje mere though that one single game can define a platform as hardcore is just ridiculous.

Especialy since so far Ikaruga has apeared on some of the most casual platforms ever

Again answer my questions:

1. Have you ever played Ikaruga?

2. Have you ever beaten Ikaruga in arcade mode?

3. Have you ever S-ranked Ikaruga?

I'm already guessing the answer is "no" or you would never, ever try and claim that you can "play Ikaruga like a SHUMP". You cannot, you will die, repeatedly, and you only have three lives to work with. You will be utterly destroyed if you try and play Ikaruga in the same way you would approach a game like Raiden II or R-Type.

This is where the great casual frustration, realization, and respect comes from. It's a game that absolutely requires you to put in dozens of hours of practice, hone your skills, and develop as a gamer.

-

What you're calling "hardcore" is merely superficial. "A 400 page plus manual and 50 keys" doesn't make a game "hardcore". You might as we claim D&D is hardcore because it has a 350 page Player's Handbook - and let's not get started on Harry Potter :P .

You're missing my point, entirely of course, because you're focused on promoting the PC instead of grasping how Ikaruga benefits core gamers. Ikaruga is a *deceptively simple game*. It doesn't have a 400+ page manual - it only uses a joystick and three buttons on the 360 (six in arcades) - and yet it takes far more time, effort, and skill, and frankly is far more rewarding than Falcon 4.0.

What you're implying is that a flight sim is "hardcore" for being realistic. That's idiotic - by your definition a real pilot would be a "hardcore gamer" without ever touching a videogame. Dale Earnhart was of course a "hardcore" race sim player, since a realistic racing game, he should be able to top any gamer at. Being a *simulation* doesn't make something hardcore - core is a *specific* niche - simulation is another. Please, please stop promoting this "Elite PC Gamer" mentality and missing the forest for the trees - all that does is confuse people *even further* on what a core game is, and turn people off from promtiong and financially supporting those kinds of games.

-

If you're going to respond again, please answer my three questions first.

[QUOTE="Jakendo"]

I wish I can find this on GC :(

I might get a 360 just for this game...

subrosian

With any luck it will come on Wiiware and PSN, along with Radiant Silvergun.

I've heard it'll be hard to port Radiant Silvergun due to it's origins on the SEGA Saturn

I got it on the Dreamcast when it came out. And I beat the game (the difficulty will turn you into a bonifide sailor). Do I get a hardcore badge?-Wheels-

In my book yes

[QUOTE="-Wheels-"]I got it on the Dreamcast when it came out. And I beat the game (the difficulty will turn you into a bonifide sailor). Do I get a hardcore badge?krunkfu2

In my book yes

Well you do to for having a Jet Grind Radio sig :P

[QUOTE="krunkfu2"]

[QUOTE="-Wheels-"]I got it on the Dreamcast when it came out. And I beat the game (the difficulty will turn you into a bonifide sailor). Do I get a hardcore badge?-Wheels-

In my book yes

Well you do to for having a Jet Grind Radio sig :P

Thanks, When I beat Ikaruga we can boast about our Hardcore badges =D

Absolutely sadistic... http://youtube.com/watch?v=ToBdzV7w5Pcfoxhound_fox

wow that looks insane.

I had to stop watching it though, I don't want to spoil the last level. I've yet to reach it

[QUOTE="Popadophalis"]nice joke?subrosian

It's not a joke - I've decided this is the fastest "rough method" of making people understand whether or not they're a genuine core gamer (as in, what core used to mean, not the bastardized system wars definition). "Do you like and understand Ikaruga? Y/N" that's it - if you can explain *why* Ikaruga is great, you're in, if not, you're something else - simple, easy, efficient. People like that, right?

Thank god, I'm not hardcore. Take your old school shooters and put them somewhere dark please:|

Games or game systems cannot be hardcore. Only gamers can be hardcore.Fatkiwi

I agree.

Absolutely sadistic... http://youtube.com/watch?v=ToBdzV7w5Pcfoxhound_fox

Ive played the demo on XBL it was hard and confusing at the start then i eventually got the whole polarity switch thing, dont know about the chains but, probably because i didnt read the tutorial or anything.

Ill probably go back to it tonight and try and get a better rating, i got C the first time i finished it......is that good?

[QUOTE="Fatkiwi"]Games or game systems cannot be hardcore. Only gamers can be hardcore.Storm_Marine

I agree.

I agree as well I was just making a point :P

Ive played the demo on XBL it was hard and confusing at the start then i eventually got the whole polarity switch thing, dont know about the chains but, probably because i didnt read the tutorial or anything.

Ill probably go back to it tonight and try and get a better rating, i got C the first time i finished it......is that good?

xbox3604lyf

C is the lowest rank.

[QUOTE="Popadophalis"]nice joke?subrosian

It's not a joke - I've decided this is the fastest "rough method" of making people understand whether or not they're a genuine core gamer (as in, what core used to mean, not the bastardized system wars definition). "Do you like and understand Ikaruga? Y/N" that's it - if you can explain *why* Ikaruga is great, you're in, if not, you're something else - simple, easy, efficient. People like that, right?

Panzer_zwei hates ikaruga though. I guess he's an exception :P

Games or game systems cannot be hardcore. Only gamers can be hardcore.Fatkiwi

does the GC version of Ikaruga count if it's backwards compatable with the wii?

There are tons of fratboys who own a 360, play nothing but Madden and never heard of Ikaruga. A gaming system doesn't make you hardcore, TC.
majadamus

*woooosh* (the sound of not getting it).

does the GC version of Ikaruga count if it's backwards compatable with the wii?

Shinobishyguy