Death Stranding PC DLSS 2.0 vs PS4 Pro Checkerboard rendering

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NoodleFighter

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#1 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 11803 Posts

Digital Foundry just released a video comparing DLSS 2.0 to PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering and as expected DLSS 2.0 mops the floor with the PS4 Pro checkerboard rendering. Nvidia really thought one step ahead of next gen consoles by creating DLSS. The PS4 Pro's internal resolution is

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The concept of native resolution is becoming less and less relevant in the modern era of games and instead, image reconstruction techniques are coming to the fore. The idea here is remarkably simple: in the age of the 4K display, why expend so much GPU power in painting 8.3m pixels per frame when instead, processing power can be directed at higher quality pixels instead, interpolated up to an ultra HD output? Numerous techniques have been trialled, but Kojima Productions' Death Stranding is an interesting example. On PS4 Pro, it features one of the best checkerboarding implementations we've seen. Meanwhile, on PC, we see a 'next-gen' image reconstruction technique - Nvidia's DLSS - which delivers image quality better than native resolution rendering.

Checkerboard rendering as found in Death Stranding is non-standard and it's the result of months of intensive work by Guerrilla Games during the production of Horizon Zero Dawn. Curiously, it does not use PS4 Pro's bespoke checkerboarding hardware. Base resolution is 1920x2160 in a checkerboard configuration, with 'missing pixels' interpolated from the previous frame. Importantly, Decima does not sample a pixel from its centre, but from its corners over two frames. By combining these results over time in a specialised way similar to the game's TAA and a very unique pass of FXAA, a 4K pixel grid is resolved and the perception of much higher resolution is achieved. According to presentations from Guerrilla, of the engine's 33.3ms per-frame render budget, 1.8ms is spent on the checkerboard resolve.

Although it upsamples from a much lower resolution, DLSS works differently. These is no checkerboard, no pixel-sized holes to fill. Rather, it works more like accumulation temporal anti-aliasing, where multiple frames from the past are queued up and information from these frames is used to smooth lines and add detail into an image - but instead of adding detail to an image of the same resolution as TAA does, it generates a much higher output resolution instead. As a part of these frames from the past, motion vectors from those frames for every object and pixel on screen are integral for DLSS working properly. How all of this information is used to create the upscaled image is decided upon by an AI program running on the GPU, accelerated by the tensor cores in an RTX GPU. So while DLSS has fewer base pixels to work from, it has access a vast amount of compute power to help the reconstruction process.

DLSS quality mode/1440p internal resolution delivers overall better quality than native 4k.

On an RTX 2080 Ti at 4K, DLSS completes in around 1.5ms - meaning it's faster than checkerboarding on PS4 Pro. However, the hardware comparison is obviously lopsided. The weakest capable GPU is the RTX 2060 (still significantly more powerful than the Pro) and DLSS has an overhead in excess of 2.5ms on this card. That's heavy, especially if you're targeting 60fps where the entire frame rendering budget is just 16.7ms. However, the core advantage is that the base resolution is so much lower. DLSS in Death Stranding comes in two flavours: the performance mode achieves 4K quality from just a 1080p internal resolution. Meanwhile, the quality mode delivers better-than-native results from a 1440p base image. In both cases, that's much lower than PS4 Pro's 1920x2160 core resolution. By running everything else in the GPU pipeline at much lower resolutions, the cost of processing DLSS is more than offset - to the point where mildly overclocking the RTX 2060 allows Death Stranding to deliver 4K gaming at 60fps.

There's an important point of differentiation between Nvidia's hardware and AMD's, however. The green team is deeply invested in AI acceleration across its entire business and it's investing significantly in die-space on the processor for dedicated AI tasks. AMD has not shared its plans for machine learning support with RDNA 2, and there is some confusion about its implementation in the next-gen consoles. Microsoft has confirmed support for accelerated INT4/INT8 processing for Xbox Series X (for the record, DLSS uses INT8) but Sony has not confirmed ML support for PlayStation 5 nor a clutch of other RDNA 2 features that are present for the next generation Xbox and in PC via DirectX 12 Ultimate support on upcoming AMD products.

Broadly speaking then, the Xbox Series X GPU has around 50 per cent of the RTX 2060's machine learning processing power. A notional DLSS port would see AI upscaling take 5ms to complete, rather than a 2060's circa 2.5ms. That's heavy, but still nowhere near as expensive as generating a full 4K image - and that's assuming that Microsoft isn't working on its own machine learning upscaling solution better suited to console development (spoilers: it is - or at least it was a few years back). In the meantime though, DLSS is the most exciting tech of its type - we're sure to see the technology evolve and for Nvidia to leverage a key hardware/software advantage. The only barrier I can see is its status as a proprietary technology requiring bespoke integration. DLSS only works as long as developers add it to their games, after all.

As exciting as the prospects for machine learning upscaling are, I also expect to see continued development of existing non-ML reconstruction techniques for the next-gen machines - Insomniac's temporal injection technique (as seen in Ratchet and Clank and Marvel's Spider-Man) is tremendous and I'm fascinated to see how this could evolve given access to the PS5's additional horsepower. Maybe the developer is leaning into this to achieve its 60fps mode for Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales? Even with the arrival of Xbox One X and its 'true 4K' marketing - and even the focus on native 4K at the PS5 games reveal - the truth is that the concepts of dynamic resolution scaling, temporal supersampling and perhaps even checkerboarding may well persist into the next generation. Despite the move to next-gen hardware, GPU resources will still be finite - and it's likely that ultra HD will still be more of a 'destination' and the route taken to get there will vary very much on a game by game basis.

TLDR: The Next gen consoles don't have any solution like DLSS although microsoft has confirmed that the Xbox Series X is capable of machine learning although it's machine learning abilities is only 50% that of an RTX 2060 so it won't be as good an RTX PC.

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Fedor

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#2  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11620 Posts

Just wait for when 3.0 comes out and works with every game using TAA. Consoles have 0 answer for tensor cores.

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hardwenzen

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#3 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39185 Posts

I guess i can't try the DLSS on a 1070? This thing intrigues me, and may be a revolution in pc gaming. I was thinking of getting an amd gpu for my next upgrade, but if they don't have dlss, how is it worth buying over the overpriced Nvidia offerings?

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rmpumper

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#4 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2145 Posts

@hardwenzen: Yeah, AMD will only be relevant if they can offer native 4K performance equal to DLSS 1440p at the same price.

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Fedor

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#5 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11620 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

I guess i can't try the DLSS on a 1070? This thing intrigues me, and may be a revolution in pc gaming. I was thinking of getting an amd gpu for my next upgrade, but if they don't have dlss, how is it worth buying over the overpriced Nvidia offerings?

No tensor cores, no DLSS.

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xantufrog

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#6  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@hardwenzen: I suspect the next AMD generation will have a DLSS2-3 counterpart - but whether it's as good is an open question (unlikely, IMO)

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hardwenzen

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#7  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 39185 Posts

God dammit. Staying an Nvidia slave for the next upgrade(s) then 😢

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Sancho_Panzer

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#8 Sancho_Panzer
Member since 2015 • 2524 Posts

It's come a long way. Remember all the "vaseline filter" stuff a year or so back?

Sure, their cards come at a bit of a premium, but Nvidia does a good job keeping GPU tech moving forward.

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NathanDrakeSwag

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#9  Edited By NathanDrakeSwag
Member since 2013 • 17392 Posts

A $3000 PC has more detailed eyebrows than a $400 console. Am I supposed to be impressed?

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Mozelleple112

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#10 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

An entire console costing less than the GPU alone performs worse than said GPU. Noooo waaaay.

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Phlop_Spencer

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#11 Phlop_Spencer
Member since 2020 • 1476 Posts

Anyone that doesn’t think Nvidia is the superior gpu choice, well you must be as delusional as our resident lemmings.

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Fedor

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#12 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11620 Posts

@NathanDrakeSwag said:

Am I supposed to be impressed?

By DLSS? you should be.

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NathanDrakeSwag

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#13 NathanDrakeSwag
Member since 2013 • 17392 Posts

@fedor said:
@NathanDrakeSwag said:

Am I supposed to be impressed?

By DLSS? you should be.

If I have to pause a game and zoom in on specific parts to notice the difference then what is there to be impressed by? Most people would not notice any difference at all while games are in motion.

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Fedor

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#14 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11620 Posts

@NathanDrakeSwag said:
@fedor said:
@NathanDrakeSwag said:

Am I supposed to be impressed?

By DLSS? you should be.

If I have to pause a game and zoom in on specific parts to notice the difference then what is there to be impressed by? Most people would not notice any difference at all while games are in motion.

No need to pause and zoom, game looks better with better draw distance without needing to. Assuming your eyesight is up to par. Then there's that whole doubling (over in a lot of cases) of the console framerate thing, kind of a big deal.

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Zero_epyon

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#15 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20125 Posts

DLSS is really making me want to switch back to Nvidia...

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Wizard

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#16 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 940 Posts

Nvidia is why consoles will always be well behind PC. They're six steps ahead of Cerney and right now...Radeon unfortunately.

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Zaryia

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#17 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@Mozelleple112 said:

An entire console costing less than the GPU alone performs worse than said GPU. Noooo waaaay.

So are you gonna play the noticeably worst version of every game for another 8 years like you did the last 8 years?

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Zaryia

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#18 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@fedor said:
@NathanDrakeSwag said:
@fedor said:
@NathanDrakeSwag said:

Am I supposed to be impressed?

By DLSS? you should be.

If I have to pause a game and zoom in on specific parts to notice the difference then what is there to be impressed by? Most people would not notice any difference at all while games are in motion.

No need to pause and zoom, game looks better with better draw distance without needing to. Assuming your eyesight is up to par. Then there's that whole doubling (over in a lot of cases) of the console framerate thing, kind of a big deal.

He's a cow. They all seem to have bad eye sight.

Last gen it was "They human eye can't see past 30 fps". Meanwhile I'm starting to dislike 60 fps.

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ConanTheStoner

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#19 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 23717 Posts
@zaryia said:

He's a cow. They all seem to have bad eye sight.

He's just broke mad, comes up every time PC is mentioned.

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SolidGame_basic

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#20 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 45245 Posts

Do people really care about this?

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Livecommander

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#21 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1388 Posts

This is what yall consider 300 to 3000 dollars better ?

I'll enjoy it when i buy a big budget pc for more than just gaming.

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ConanTheStoner

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#22 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 23717 Posts

@SolidGame_basic said:

Do people really care about this?

That's basically asking if people care about graphics and performance lol.

Being SW, I'd say the answer is yes for many.

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xantufrog

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#23  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@Livecommander: No.

https://www.pcgamer.com/death-stranding-dlss-2-4k-2060-performance/

DLSS allows a ~$300 GPU (https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-2060-gv-n2060ixoc-6gd-rev-2-0/p/N82E16814932210?&quicklink=true)

To run Death Stranding at effectively >4K 60FPS.

A $360 PS4 Pro (https://www.gamestop.com/video-games/playstation-4/consoles/products/playstation-4-pro-black-1tb/10134659.html?rt=productDetailsRedesign&utm_expid=.h77-PyHtRYaskNpc14UbmA.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F) runs it at sub 4K 30FPS.

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deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9

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#24 deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

I wonder who will be getting this game? Don't think it sold well on PS4 and have to wonder if there's an audience for it on PC.

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Zaryia

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#25 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@SolidGame_basic said:

Do people really care about this?

Well you're super excited and care about 3rd place graphics and post endlessly in PS5 threads, so I'd assume people care about 1st place graphics as well.

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SolidGame_basic

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#26 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 45245 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:
@SolidGame_basic said:

Do people really care about this?

That's basically asking if people care about graphics and performance lol.

Being SW, I'd say the answer is yes for many.

The PS4 version looks really good, I'm sure the PC version is even better and runs better, but it's not like as I was playing the PS4 version I stopped and said "damn, look at this subpar rendering". lol. I was busy playing and enjoying the game!

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Zero_epyon

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#27 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20125 Posts

@SolidGame_basic said:
@ConanTheStoner said:
@SolidGame_basic said:

Do people really care about this?

That's basically asking if people care about graphics and performance lol.

Being SW, I'd say the answer is yes for many.

The PS4 version looks really good, I'm sure the PC version is even better and runs better, but it's not like as I was playing the PS4 version I stopped and said "damn, look at this subpar rendering". lol. I was busy playing and enjoying the game!

The point of this is that you can get this game looking its absolute best while not taking a performance hit. If that's not something you care about then it's probably not aimed at you. I for one am very close to getting an RTX card just for DLSS.

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Pedro

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#28 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 69765 Posts

This is a feature that console needs the most. If there is any reason to delay next gen is to have a feature like this mainly due to consoles needing to last and average of 7 years.

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Livecommander

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#29 Livecommander
Member since 2009 • 1388 Posts

@xantufrog: you're comparing a New egg sale of a gpu to and entire console ?

Not to mention this game wouldn't exist to the same degree it does if not for the playstation 4

Consoles are just where its at. Pc can technically be better and just as fun but consoles are the heart of aaa gaming.

Face it. Eat it

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Duckyindiana

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#30 Duckyindiana
Member since 2006 • 3040 Posts

An amazing looking game on the pro now looks even more amazing! One of the better looking open worlds. Wasn’t a massive fan of some of the gameplay and need to finish! Great soundtrack as well

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Fedor

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#31 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11620 Posts

@Livecommander said:

This is what yall consider 300 to 3000 dollars better ?

Yes.

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xantufrog

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#32  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 17875 Posts

@Livecommander said:

@xantufrog: you're comparing a New egg sale of a gpu to and entire console ?

Not to mention this game wouldn't exist to the same degree it does if not for the playstation 4

Consoles are just where its at. Pc can technically be better and just as fun but consoles are the heart of aaa gaming.

Face it. Eat it

No.

You made a specific claim. And I showed it was unequivocally wrong. You're spreading bullshit information, and you know it

I'm not pretending an RTX2060 PC is cheaper than a PS4 Pro. Look up my posting history if you really want to go down that road. And that includes me arguing the visual bump on this game is totally underwhelming on PC.

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ConanTheStoner

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#33 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 23717 Posts
@SolidGame_basic said:

The PS4 version looks really good, I'm sure the PC version is even better and runs better, but it's not like as I was playing the PS4 version I stopped and said "damn, look at this subpar rendering". lol. I was busy playing and enjoying the game!

Ohh, thought you meant in general.

Yeah for sure dude. Even playing DS on PC, only night and day difference to me is the frame rate. Game looked great on PS4.

But yeah, just meant in general tho. This feature isn't exclusive to Death Stranding and is a pretty big deal for graphics/performance. Which of course people care about.

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deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9

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#34 deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

@SolidGame_basic said:

The PS4 version looks really good, I'm sure the PC version is even better and runs better, but it's not like as I was playing the PS4 version I stopped and said "damn, look at this subpar rendering". lol. I was busy playing and enjoying the game!

Good to see all the cow trolling on Switch games coming around and biting you guys in the ass.

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SolidGame_basic

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#35 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 45245 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:
@SolidGame_basic said:

The PS4 version looks really good, I'm sure the PC version is even better and runs better, but it's not like as I was playing the PS4 version I stopped and said "damn, look at this subpar rendering". lol. I was busy playing and enjoying the game!

Ohh, thought you meant in general.

Yeah for sure dude. Even playing DS on PC, only night and day difference to me is the frame rate. Game looked great on PS4.

But yeah, just meant in general tho. This feature isn't exclusive to Death Stranding and is a pretty big deal for graphics/performance. Which of course people care about.

If Conan says it's a big deal, then I'm inclined to believe it!

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rzxv04

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#36 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts

@fedor said:

Just wait for when 3.0 comes out and works with every game using TAA. Consoles have 0 answer for tensor cores.

I'm actually excited for the next 2 gens of Nvidia within this gen. if there's a massive advantage for PC thanks to NV, I am very confident that the mid-gen refresh would also be nifty.

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#37 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 2578 Posts
@Pedro said:

This is a feature that console needs the most. If there is any reason to delay next gen is to have a feature like this mainly due to consoles needing to last and average of 7 years.

Better mid-gen refresh incoming if Nvidia wipes consoles out early on. Maybe.

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ermacness

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#38 ermacness
Member since 2005 • 10626 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Mozelleple112 said:

An entire console costing less than the GPU alone performs worse than said GPU. Noooo waaaay.

So are you gonna play the noticeably worst version of every game for another 8 years like you did the last 8 years?

Can I buy a PC that performs like this for a price of a ps5? If not, then YES.

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deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9

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#39 deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

@ermacness said:
@zaryia said:
@Mozelleple112 said:

An entire console costing less than the GPU alone performs worse than said GPU. Noooo waaaay.

So are you gonna play the noticeably worst version of every game for another 8 years like you did the last 8 years?

Can I buy a PC that performs like this for a price of a ps5? If not, then YES.

Same for most people. LEETs get so mad 'cause we the majority don't gaf about such trite shite.

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Zaryia

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#40 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@ermacness said:
@zaryia said:
@Mozelleple112 said:

An entire console costing less than the GPU alone performs worse than said GPU. Noooo waaaay.

So are you gonna play the noticeably worst version of every game for another 8 years like you did the last 8 years?

Can I buy a PC that performs like this for a price of a ps5? If not, then YES.

Can you buy a PS5 that will ever perform like a PC? If not, then NO!

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Zaryia

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#41  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@briguyb13 said:
@ermacness said:
@zaryia said:
@Mozelleple112 said:

An entire console costing less than the GPU alone performs worse than said GPU. Noooo waaaay.

So are you gonna play the noticeably worst version of every game for another 8 years like you did the last 8 years?

Can I buy a PC that performs like this for a price of a ps5? If not, then YES.

Same for most people. LEETs get so mad 'cause we the majority don't gaf about such trite shite.

Garbage fallacy. I'm sure the Ferrari owners are so mad at Civic owners.

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Zaryia

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#42  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Livecommander said:

@xantufrog: you're comparing a New egg sale of a gpu to and entire console ?

Not to mention this game wouldn't exist to the same degree it does if not for the playstation 4

Consoles are just where its at. Pc can technically be better and just as fun but consoles are the heart of aaa gaming.

Face it. Eat it

The heart of AAA gaming has less AAA games and everything on it looks/runs worse.

I guess it has heart disease.

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deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9

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#43 deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

@zaryia said:
@briguyb13 said:

Same for most people. LEETs get so mad 'cause we the majority don't gaf about such trite shite.

Garbage fallacy. I'm sure the Ferrari owners are so mad at Civic owners.

You turd warriors use such bullshit terms like broken records. "fallacy" and "false equivalency" like they are some kind of armor, but they're just feces you smear all over yourselves.

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Zaryia

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#44 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@briguyb13 said:
@zaryia said:
@briguyb13 said:

Same for most people. LEETs get so mad 'cause we the majority don't gaf about such trite shite.

Garbage fallacy. I'm sure the Ferrari owners are so mad at Civic owners.

You turd warriors use such bullshit terms like broken records. "fallacy" and "false equivalency" like they are some kind of armor, but they're just feces you smear all over yourselves.

But you guys reek of jealousy. YOU entered a thread where PC got praised to the high moons by Digital Foundry and attacked PC.

Just get a better job so you don't have to have a worse gaming experience and have to take it out on the superior platform all the time?

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deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9

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#45 deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

@zaryia said:
@briguyb13 said:
@zaryia said:
@briguyb13 said:

Same for most people. LEETs get so mad 'cause we the majority don't gaf about such trite shite.

Garbage fallacy. I'm sure the Ferrari owners are so mad at Civic owners.

You turd warriors use such bullshit terms like broken records. "fallacy" and "false equivalency" like they are some kind of armor, but they're just feces you smear all over yourselves.

But you guys reek of jealousy. YOU entered a thread where PC got praised to the high moons by Digital Foundry and attacked PC.

Just get a better job so you don't have to have a worse gaming experience and have to take it out on the superior platform all the time?

You're like some racist who lump all people together. I game on consoles and handhelds and don't gaf about PC, but you'll never see me seriously discussing a platform I have zero interest in.

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lundy86_4

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#46 lundy86_4  Online
Member since 2003 • 61509 Posts

@briguyb13 said:

You turd warriors use such bullshit terms like broken records. "fallacy" and "false equivalency" like they are some kind of armor, but they're just feces you smear all over yourselves.

False equivalency is a fallacy.

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lundy86_4

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#47  Edited By lundy86_4  Online
Member since 2003 • 61509 Posts

1440p and 120fps is the sweet spot for my PC/TV, so bring DLSS on a grand scale. Even a 2080 struggles at the 4K mark with current games, which is why I want the 3080 to be a solid 4K card.

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#48 deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

@lundy86_4 said:
@briguyb13 said:

You turd warriors use such bullshit terms like broken records. "fallacy" and "false equivalency" like they are some kind of armor, but they're just feces you smear all over yourselves.

False equivalency is a fallacy.

You turd. :P

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Zaryia

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#49  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@briguyb13 said:

You're like some racist who lump all people together. I game on consoles and handhelds and don't gaf about PC, but you'll never see me seriously discussing a platform I have zero interest in.

Then why are you in a thread about that platform discussing that platform.

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#50  Edited By deactivated-618bc23e9b1c9
Member since 2007 • 7339 Posts

@zaryia said:
@briguyb13 said:

You're like some racist who lump all people together. I game on consoles and handhelds and don't gaf about PC, but you'll never see me seriously discussing a platform I have zero interest in.

Then why are you in a thread about that platform discussing that platform.

It's none of yo goddamned business.