BulletStorm sequel shelved, Epic games blames PC pirates for PC sales

:cry:

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

When you get your foot in a creative industry you'll understand this mentality.

Dev's need money to survive and keep producing games, if dev's ARENT making money and able to turn a profit it hits the pan.Its harrowing in cases like this where a great game and concept are being shelved because it didnt sell enough yet faired well critically and enjoyed a lot by those who bought it, and to boot it was a highly replayable game.

It's annoying a lot of idiots pirated it based on the fact it had a short campaign and no real focus on online, but there are those PC gamers out there who even hermits admit exist who just pirate everything..they exist on consoles but its a bigger problem on PC as its a tad bit easier and theres a little less repercussions compared to say pirating on the 360 if your a live user :P

When your in a creative industry (im heavily involved in music and in the midst of starting my own gig promotion company as a little extra cash on the side since no promoter here handles the more extreme spectrum of metal/hardcore) you learn a few things and even more in a band every penny does count and i can see where developers are coming from, i've seen many a band split because its not financially viable any more a honest to god good example is Anterior a stellar band who's split well before their time because they just couldnt keep going.

Its a shame when you see something with a ton of potential shelved because they just cant make money, because some little bozo thinks its better to pirate the game sure im coming off with a draconian attitude but the people who expect more than they deserve attitdues (most of SW) just need a clobbering over the head and brought back to reality.

razgriz_101

Based on your example , if you release a CD with your songs and wont sale .. youll blame piracy!! Well is that the real issue? Maybe your music isnt good enough? Maybe there are too many others , way better musicians/vocalists on your genre and you cant compete with them or your synthesis/arrangement isnt something fresh and someone just passing your songs thinking "" one of the same ""

? There are many reasons why a game / song doesnt sale . Thats my opinion.

Im not saying piracy isnt a problem but you cant blame ONLY that. If your game/song or whatever is good enough , it will sale. period.

Considering i've got a lot of knowledge with the scene, based on habitual talk on music forums, the actual scene itself priacy and copying cd's is actually rife with ripping.

If your trying to deny piracy is a problem in music then i suggest you read this by a local band, strangely one who's growing leaps and bounds but not hitting full potential sometimes.If people dont buy your favourite band might not be able to come play for you live or continue functioning as a band, a thing people really take for granted much like developers.

People dont pirate a cd cause its bad or various other things, its usually a factor of oh i want that so i'll just jump on pirate bay and download it.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150128024374033&__adt=3&__att=iframe

Many lower teir bands are moving to more free pre production demo's as they are cheap and quick to record especially if one member of the band is training in sound production you can get a demo done in a couple hours providing you have a decent practice space, but full albums cost A LOT of time and cash it can be between £100-500ish if you want a good tech and mastering and thats on a per track basis and IF you want really good production.

No its not. Its as simple as , IF youre good , you gonna sale. Thats all there is to it. Did you read my post or ?

Because if you are , your profits wont come from CDs only. Will come from net profits ( youtube for example ) , live shows profits etc.

I said it before , im not saying piracy is good , but every single GOOD or even marketing success song will sale. Period

And to be honest with ourselfs , who didnt "pirate" A THING ever. From mp3 to a TV series / movie etc etc.. Who ? You?... Come on. Lets be honest here.

At least he admitted that the port sucked.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

Based on your example , if you release a CD with your songs and wont sale .. youll blame piracy!! Well is that the real issue? Maybe your music isnt good enough? Maybe there are too many others , way better musicians/vocalists on your genre and you cant compete with them or your synthesis/arrangement isnt something fresh and someone just passing your songs thinking "" one of the same ""

? There are many reasons why a game / song doesnt sale . Thats my opinion.

Im not saying piracy isnt a problem but you cant blame ONLY that. If your game/song or whatever is good enough , it will sale. period.

AzatiS

Considering i've got a lot of knowledge with the scene, based on habitual talk on music forums, the actual scene itself priacy and copying cd's is actually rife with ripping.

If your trying to deny piracy is a problem in music then i suggest you read this by a local band, strangely one who's growing leaps and bounds but not hitting full potential sometimes.If people dont buy your favourite band might not be able to come play for you live or continue functioning as a band, a thing people really take for granted much like developers.

People dont pirate a cd cause its bad or various other things, its usually a factor of oh i want that so i'll just jump on pirate bay and download it.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150128024374033&__adt=3&__att=iframe

Many lower teir bands are moving to more free pre production demo's as they are cheap and quick to record especially if one member of the band is training in sound production you can get a demo done in a couple hours providing you have a decent practice space, but full albums cost A LOT of time and cash it can be between £100-500ish if you want a good tech and mastering and thats on a per track basis and IF you want really good production.

No its not. Its as simple as , IF youre good , you gonna sale. Thats all there is to it. Did you read my post or ?

Because if you are , your profits wont come from CDs only. Will come from net profits ( youtube for example ) , live shows profits etc.

Negative,

I said it before , im not saying piracy is good , but every single GOOD or even marketing success song will sale. Period

And to be honest with ourselfs , who didnt "pirate" A THING ever. From mp3 to a TV series / movie etc etc.. Who ? You?... Come on. Lets be honest here.

I did but you clearly dont understand the points i have tried to make, Anterior are a stellar band who had to pack it in because they couldnt afford it anymore and they had 2 albums, a massive following and one of the best British metal bands of this era which to be honest is a shame especially cause the band were always so cool to hang out with aswell as generally being down to earth guys who just cared bout the music and the folks that came out to shows.

youtube for most bands isnt profitable a single bit, neither is spotifiy a lot of labels and bands have expressed this in interviews that they are low profitability but give off good exposure in some cases with bands it can have an effect on the other area's where bands make money.

Piracy is hurting the middle echelons of the industries end of..failing to see it as a problem is like saying Syria isnt a problem, lower bands have adapted to live centric and/or merch sales with free demo's and the rest of it and the top 40 stuff can pump out a load of bull and still be profitable regardless as theres millions of drones out there to buy it.

Piracy hurts everything BUT the top 40 especially the hard working guys.

I've personally never illegally downloaded for well over a decade back when i was what around 12, as music is a cheap commodity, games are cheap and i've got a Sky tv box with about all the channels so yeah i dont need to pirate anything really :)

Once your really involved in music and all the rest of it you learn a lot of intricacies, and im sure the same applies to the vg industry in terms of recouping and sustainabiliy.

Considering i've got a lot of knowledge with the scene, based on habitual talk on music forums, the actual scene itself priacy and copying cd's is actually rife with ripping.

If your trying to deny piracy is a problem in music then i suggest you read this by a local band, strangely one who's growing leaps and bounds but not hitting full potential sometimes.If people dont buy your favourite band might not be able to come play for you live or continue functioning as a band, a thing people really take for granted much like developers.

People dont pirate a cd cause its bad or various other things, its usually a factor of oh i want that so i'll just jump on pirate bay and download it.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150128024374033&__adt=3&__att=iframe

Many lower teir bands are moving to more free pre production demo's as they are cheap and quick to record especially if one member of the band is training in sound production you can get a demo done in a couple hours providing you have a decent practice space, but full albums cost A LOT of time and cash it can be between £100-500ish if you want a good tech and mastering and thats on a per track basis and IF you want really good production.

razgriz_101

That post is bollocks and you should know it. Especially since you claim you're in the industry. You can't take things at face value when speaking of mass market phenomena.

"Steal music". I know for sure I wouldn't have one tenth of the albums I own if I couldn't have "stolen" them first. Which in turn would have resulted in even less sales for them. And for what? So that a torrent counter on the internet could be lower? What would you achieve if it was zero?

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

Considering i've got a lot of knowledge with the scene, based on habitual talk on music forums, the actual scene itself priacy and copying cd's is actually rife with ripping.

If your trying to deny piracy is a problem in music then i suggest you read this by a local band, strangely one who's growing leaps and bounds but not hitting full potential sometimes.If people dont buy your favourite band might not be able to come play for you live or continue functioning as a band, a thing people really take for granted much like developers.

People dont pirate a cd cause its bad or various other things, its usually a factor of oh i want that so i'll just jump on pirate bay and download it.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150128024374033&__adt=3&__att=iframe

Many lower teir bands are moving to more free pre production demo's as they are cheap and quick to record especially if one member of the band is training in sound production you can get a demo done in a couple hours providing you have a decent practice space, but full albums cost A LOT of time and cash it can be between £100-500ish if you want a good tech and mastering and thats on a per track basis and IF you want really good production.

razgriz_101

No its not. Its as simple as , IF youre good , you gonna sale. Thats all there is to it. Did you read my post or ?

I did but you clearly dont understand the points i have tried to make, Anterior are a stellar band who had to pack it in because they couldnt afford it anymore and they had 2 albums, a massive following and one of the best British metal bands of this era which to be honest is a shame especially cause the band were always so cool to hang out with aswell as generally being down to earth guys who just cared bout the music and the folks that came out to shows.

Because if you are , your profits wont come from CDs only. Will come from net profits ( youtube for example ) , live shows profits etc.

Negative, youtube for most bands isnt profitable a single bit, neither is spotifiy a lot of labels and bands have expressed this in interviews that they are low profitability but give off good exposure in some cases with bands it can have an effect on the other area's where bands make money.

I said it before , im not saying piracy is good , but every single GOOD or even marketing success song will sale. Period

Piracy is hurting the middle echelons of the industries end of..failing to see it as a problem is like saying Syria isnt a problem, lower bands have adapted to live centric and/or merch sales with free demo's and the rest of it and the top 40 stuff can pump out a load of bull and still be profitable regardless as theres millions of drones out there to buy it.

Piracy hurts everything BUT the top 40 especially the hard working guys.

And to be honest with ourselfs , who didnt "pirate" A THING ever. From mp3 to a TV series / movie etc etc.. Who ? You?... Come on. Lets be honest here.

I've personally never illegally downloaded for well over a decade back when i was what around 12, as music is a cheap commodity, games are cheap and i've got a Sky tv box with about all the channels so yeah i dont need to pirate anything really :)

Once your really involved in music and all the rest of it you learn a lot of intricacies, and im sure the same applies to the vg industry in terms of recouping and sustainabiliy.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

Considering i've got a lot of knowledge with the scene, based on habitual talk on music forums, the actual scene itself priacy and copying cd's is actually rife with ripping.

If your trying to deny piracy is a problem in music then i suggest you read this by a local band, strangely one who's growing leaps and bounds but not hitting full potential sometimes.If people dont buy your favourite band might not be able to come play for you live or continue functioning as a band, a thing people really take for granted much like developers.

People dont pirate a cd cause its bad or various other things, its usually a factor of oh i want that so i'll just jump on pirate bay and download it.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150128024374033&__adt=3&__att=iframe

Many lower teir bands are moving to more free pre production demo's as they are cheap and quick to record especially if one member of the band is training in sound production you can get a demo done in a couple hours providing you have a decent practice space, but full albums cost A LOT of time and cash it can be between £100-500ish if you want a good tech and mastering and thats on a per track basis and IF you want really good production.

N30F3N1X

That post is bollocks and you should know it. Especially since you claim you're in the industry. You can't take things at face value when speaking of mass market phenomena.

"Steal music". I know for sure I wouldn't have one tenth of the albums I own if I couldn't have "stolen" them first. Which in turn would have resulted in even less sales for them. And for what? So that a torrent counter on the internet could be lower? What would you achieve if it was zero?

I find my music through going to shows, doing research, reading the press, checking out bands on youtube,myspace(if were getting retro) and facebook.I take 2 songs from a band give them a chance if i like them i put them on my to buy list.Torrenting the album is something i personally dont ever wish to do at all.

What im saying is piracy is hurting everything but the local band and the top 40 everything inbetween feels the pinch.

I've been to near enough 150 live gigs,heavily involved in the local scene here aswell as being in the midst of starting little promoter gig on the side with a mate and we've found a venue which we can book.

Torrenting does have an effect whether you claim it does or nott.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="AzatiS"]

No its not. Its as simple as , IF youre good , you gonna sale. Thats all there is to it. Did you read my post or ?

I did but you clearly dont understand the points i have tried to make, Anterior are a stellar band who had to pack it in because they couldnt afford it anymore and they had 2 albums, a massive following and one of the best British metal bands of this era which to be honest is a shame especially cause the band were always so cool to hang out with aswell as generally being down to earth guys who just cared bout the music and the folks that came out to shows.

Because if you are , your profits wont come from CDs only. Will come from net profits ( youtube for example ) , live shows profits etc.

Negative, youtube for most bands isnt profitable a single bit, neither is spotifiy a lot of labels and bands have expressed this in interviews that they are low profitability but give off good exposure in some cases with bands it can have an effect on the other area's where bands make money.

I said it before , im not saying piracy is good , but every single GOOD or even marketing success song will sale. Period

Piracy is hurting the middle echelons of the industries end of..failing to see it as a problem is like saying Syria isnt a problem, lower bands have adapted to live centric and/or merch sales with free demo's and the rest of it and the top 40 stuff can pump out a load of bull and still be profitable regardless as theres millions of drones out there to buy it.

Piracy hurts everything BUT the top 40 especially the hard working guys.

And to be honest with ourselfs , who didnt "pirate" A THING ever. From mp3 to a TV series / movie etc etc.. Who ? You?... Come on. Lets be honest here.

I've personally never illegally downloaded for well over a decade back when i was what around 12, as music is a cheap commodity, games are cheap and i've got a Sky tv box with about all the channels so yeah i dont need to pirate anything really :)

AzatiS

Once your really involved in music and all the rest of it you learn a lot of intricacies, and im sure the same applies to the vg industry in terms of recouping and sustainabiliy.

Because those devs are the equivelant to the music top 40 herp derp, they could badge a turd with those brands and it sells.

The top 40 should burn in a pit of hell for how commercialised and how much bollocks it has become and basically a little club ran by the major lables where you get the rare out of nowhere album instead its filled with what i consider absolute rubbish autotuned horse crap.

So I guess the sh*tty console sales were also due to PC pirates?

The game sold poorly because it wasn't good enough to command a full retail price tag. I loved the game, but no one in their right mind is going to drop $50/60 on a ~6 hour campaign sans replay value and half-baked co-op mode. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if they'd launched it at $30 their total dollar sales would've been significantly higher.

it wasnt the worst port ever (unmodded RE4 takes that cake), but it was pretty bad

you had to edit one of the .ini files to make it playable, such as turning off mouse smoothing and increasing the FOV

im not exactly sure, but i think you had to download a crack or something, so you could edit the .ini files, since they were locked down... hmm cant remember, this was last year

oh and the lead dev on bulletstorm said "playing with mouse/keyboard was like eating with a screw driver" how nice of him

HaloinventedFPS

"Our game didn't sell well because it was not very good so lets blame pirates and used games."

This is the new slogan for these slug video game devs/pubs. Either they will make good games or they will try and make more money by penalizing their customers. The latter will plummet the video game industry into darkness and I will find something else to do with the little spare time I have dedicated to the hobby.

[QUOTE="AzatiS"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

Once your really involved in music and all the rest of it you learn a lot of intricacies, and im sure the same applies to the vg industry in terms of recouping and sustainabiliy.

razgriz_101

Because those devs are the equivelant to the music top 40 herp derp, they could badge a turd with those brands and it sells.

The top 40 should burn in a pit of hell for how commercialised and how much bollocks it has become and basically a little club ran by the major lables where you get the rare out of nowhere album instead its filled with what i consider absolute rubbish autotuned horse crap.

1. Release a bad game for idiots with no jump and missing coop...
2. Sells poorly.
3. PIRACY!!!

This is proof that devs are crack smoking idiots that don't know their customers. I could develop a better game than BStorm in my sleep ... sorry, you are morons and fail at gaming. LOL. Idiots.

So ... dumb. Literally, in my sleep, better game.

1. Release a bad game for idiots with no jump and missing coop...
2. Sells poorly.
3. PIRACY!!!

This is proof that devs are crack smoking idiots that don't know their customers. I could develop a better game than BStorm in my sleep ... sorry, you are morons and fail at gaming. LOL. Idiots.

So ... dumb. Literally, in my sleep, better game.

haberman13

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

1. Release a bad game for idiots with no jump and missing coop...
2. Sells poorly.
3. PIRACY!!!

This is proof that devs are crack smoking idiots that don't know their customers. I could develop a better game than BStorm in my sleep ... sorry, you are morons and fail at gaming. LOL. Idiots.

So ... dumb. Literally, in my sleep, better game.

Ravensmash

Yes, I can't seem to wrap my mind around the idiocy of the entire thing. Also, missing jump is LOL worthy. No?

I find my music through going to shows, doing research, reading the press, checking out bands on youtube,myspace(if were getting retro) and facebook.I take 2 songs from a band give them a chance if i like them i put them on my to buy list.Torrenting the album is something i personally dont ever wish to do at all.

What im saying is piracy is hurting everything but the local band and the top 40 everything inbetween feels the pinch.

I've been to near enough 150 live gigs,heavily involved in the local scene here aswell as being in the midst of starting little promoter gig on the side with a mate and we've found a venue which we can book.

Torrenting does have an effect whether you claim it does or nott.

razgriz_101

Torrenting or getting it off youtube is completely irrelevant. The net effect is what matters. The average listener doesn't mind the difference in quality between the uncompressed wav or ogg you can find on a disk and the mp3 format you get in converted videos. Either way, the listener downloads it off the net and the artist doesn't see a penny.

I'm not denying the fact that it has an effect.

I'm trying to get across the point that its effect is incorrectly valued. From you aswell. "What you're saying" about piracy is factually flawed. There's no way you can say with certainty it actually hurts anyone.

I'll repeat this again - there's NO WAY you can say with certainty it actually hurts anyone. Got it?

Especially in the music industry. Don't make me take out the big guns.

"Oh we didn't sell well for PC so it must be those pirates":roll:

People are really stupid here. Did you guys even read the article?

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

Tanked on all platforms.

Therefore, it's PC pirates' fault.

Seems legit.

tenaka2

This, if they were tellign the truth they could just do a console version for the sequal.

PC piracy hurts consoles sales = console gamers pirating pc version?

"To be honest, if PC wasn't pirated to hell and back, there'd probably be a PC version coming out the same day as the other two," he said, talking of the voice-controlled RTS.

"But at the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you're doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy's basically killing PC."

We asked if piracy was the main reason to keep EndWar off PC.

"Yeah, at the time of release," he said. "You know, the level of piracy that you get with the PC just cannibalizes the others, because people just steal that version."

Michael de Plater

Ubisoft creative director

According to Cowan & Company analyst Doug Creutz, People Can Fly's Bulletstorm has sold 279,000 units in the US to date across Xbox 360 and PS3, a figure Cruetz brands "disappointing".

http://www.oxm.co.uk/26331/analyst-labels-bulletstorm-sales-disappointing/

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

I find my music through going to shows, doing research, reading the press, checking out bands on youtube,myspace(if were getting retro) and facebook.I take 2 songs from a band give them a chance if i like them i put them on my to buy list.Torrenting the album is something i personally dont ever wish to do at all.

What im saying is piracy is hurting everything but the local band and the top 40 everything inbetween feels the pinch.

I've been to near enough 150 live gigs,heavily involved in the local scene here aswell as being in the midst of starting little promoter gig on the side with a mate and we've found a venue which we can book.

Torrenting does have an effect whether you claim it does or nott.

N30F3N1X

Torrenting or getting it off youtube is completely irrelevant. The net effect is what matters. The average listener doesn't mind the difference in quality between the uncompressed wav or ogg you can find on a disk and the mp3 format you get in converted videos. Either way, the listener downloads it off the net and the artist doesn't see a penny.

I'm not denying the fact that it has an effect.

I'm trying to get across the point that its effect is incorrectly valued. From you aswell. "What you're saying" about piracy is factually flawed. There's no way you can say with certainty it actually hurts anyone.

I'll repeat this again - there's NO WAY you can say with certainty it actually hurts anyone. Got it?

Especially in the music industry. Don't make me take out the big guns.

That would require everybody who's pirated anything to, with 100% certainty, not have any intention of buying the product in the first place. The question is not if, but how much money is lost.

That would require everybody who's pirated anything to, with 100% certainty, not have any intention of buying the product in the first place. The question is not if, but how much money is lost.

SkyWard20

People are really stupid here. Did you guys even read the article?SkyWard20

The. F*cking. Irony.

back in the 90's it was MUCH easier to copy games then it is now and yet somehow the industry grew...

SEANMCAD

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

That would require everybody who's pirated anything to, with 100% certainty, not have any intention of buying the product in the first place. The question is not if, but how much money is lost.

N30F3N1X

People are really stupid here. Did you guys even read the article?SkyWard20

The. F*cking. Irony.

[QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

back in the 90's it was MUCH easier to copy games then it is now and yet somehow the industry grew...

wis3boi

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

back in the 90's it was MUCH easier to copy games then it is now and yet somehow the industry grew...

SkyWard20

Exactly.

Back in the '90s you could make a mainstream, high-profile game with $2 million.

As long as you made $2 million in sales, you were set.

Now you need $20 million.

Tanked on all platforms.

Therefore, it's PC pirates' fault.

Seems legit.

N30F3N1X

[QUOTE="wis3boi"][QUOTE="SEANMCAD"]

back in the 90's it was MUCH easier to copy games then it is now and yet somehow the industry grew...

SkyWard20

I get the feeling that talking to you will be a pain in the ass, but just so you know, I can't read every previous discussion you've had in this thread. If you have a point, make it, instead of waiting for me to tell you to.

SkyWard20

Okay.

That would require everybody who's pirated anything to, with 100% certainty, not have any intention of buying the product in the first place. The question is not if, but how much money is lost.

SkyWard20

Demonstrate this.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"][QUOTE="wis3boi"] Yep, and back then people bought what was quality and ignored the rest. Now if the devs don't get an A+ on their product suddenly it's "dem pirates. Can the rest of the franchise."wis3boi

No no...it's the silly voice acting, detailed 3D character models / backgrounds, cinematics, set pieces, and CGI that's so costly.

Remove all of that, and you get a much cheaper game (see Kickstarter).

>Tanked on all platforms. So you really didn't read it.SkyWard20

It did tank on all platforms considering they've decided to put its sequel's development "on hold".

I was ironizing on the fact that he decided to single out the PC in the interview.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]>Tanked on all platforms. So you really didn't read it.N30F3N1X

It did tank on all platforms considering they've decided to put its sequel's development "on hold".

I was ironizing on the fact that he decided to single out the PC in the interview.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]I get the feeling that talking to you will be a pain in the ass, but just so you know, I can't read every previous discussion you've had in this thread. If you have a point, make it, instead of waiting for me to tell you to.

N30F3N1X

Okay.

That would require everybody who's pirated anything to, with 100% certainty, not have any intention of buying the product in the first place. The question is not if, but how much money is lost.

SkyWard20

Demonstrate this.

Demonstrate what? Anything less than that would mean the industry's getting 'hurt', if by 'hurt' you mean 'would've bought the product I pirated with certainty'. You'd have to claim that each time someone pirates a copy, he wouldn't have bought it.

Piracy hurts the industry because it is precisely too widespread, happens too often, that it could not. It is as demonstrating that producing a defective car model for widespread public use would cause accidents -- it will, the question remains how many.

Have they stated exactly how many copies they sold yet?

Demonstrate what? Anything less than that would mean the industry's getting 'hurt', if by 'hurt' you mean 'would've bought the product I pirated with certainty'. You'd have to claim that each time someone pirates a copy, he wouldn't have bought it.

Piracy hurts the industry because it is precisely too widespread, happens too often, that it could not. It is as demonstrating that producing a defective car model for widespread public use would cause accidents -- it will, the question remains how many.

SkyWard20

You said that piracy is unequivocably a money loss. I'm asking you to demonstrate it.

As I said before I wouldn't have one tenth of the albums I own if I couldn't have listened to them first. In fact I would simply leave the music industry alone. Speaking of the rock/metal industry, that is. I could have not "stolen" them, but then the industry wouldn't have had my money for their sales. So which is it? Did the industry lose something or gain something from me?

If Epic Games wants to improve their PC sales than the first thing they should do is put a muzzle on Cliffy because nearly everything he says damages Epic Games relationship with potential PC customers.

NoodleFighter

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

If Epic Games wants to improve their PC sales than the first thing they should do is put a muzzle on Cliffy because nearly everything he says damages Epic Games relationship with potential PC customers.

Cherokee_Jack

His point still stands. C|ittyB thought it would be fun to taunt PC gamers for not getting to play the Bulletstorm demo. That sure as hell didn't help the game's sales.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

Demonstrate what? Anything less than that would mean the industry's getting 'hurt', if by 'hurt' you mean 'would've bought the product I pirated with certainty'. You'd have to claim that each time someone pirates a copy, he wouldn't have bought it.

Piracy hurts the industry because it is precisely too widespread, happens too often, that it could not. It is as demonstrating that producing a defective car model for widespread public use would cause accidents -- it will, the question remains how many.

N30F3N1X

You said that piracy is unequivocably a money loss. I'm asking you to demonstrate it.

As I said before I wouldn't have one tenth of the albums I own if I couldn't have listened to them first. In fact I would simply leave the music industry alone. Speaking of the rock/metal industry, that is. I could have not "stolen" them, but then the industry wouldn't have had my money for their sales. So which is it? Did the industry lose something or gain something from me?

Comparing the music industry to the video game industry is faulty. Smaller production team (which means more money), income not necessarily generated from customer sales, etc.

If you even place as much as one percent (1%) on one 'hypothetical customer' (or pirate) -- now multiply the amount of customers by one hundred thousand, then by one hundred million -- it will unqestionably generate some amount of loss, at a certain point. For that not to happen, each 'potential costumer' must have a 0% rate of being a pirate, or each 'potential pirate' must have a 100% rate of becoming a costumer.

At this point, no analyst in the world would claim that piracy does not do any damage. No person who looks at statistics and the entertainment industry put together that is smarter than you or me would come and say "piracy is harmless". (It's also not the death of the industry, obviously. We're still doing better than ever, commercially at least).

No adjustable FOV, no genuine COOP and GFWL = I will not buy your game at anything like full price. (except I bought it when it was £4 on Steam)

Excuse to the shareholders - Piracy

Reality - PC Gamers have higher standards.

It was a mediocre game that didn't even have a proper coop mode. On top of that GFWL is an immediate no sale for me. Piracy has absolutely nothing to do with this games mediocre sales.

Reality - PC Gamers have higher standards.iamrob7

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"][QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

If Epic Games wants to improve their PC sales than the first thing they should do is put a muzzle on Cliffy because nearly everything he says damages Epic Games relationship with potential PC customers.

N30F3N1X

His point still stands. C|ittyB thought it would be fun to taunt PC gamers for not getting to play the Bulletstorm demo. That sure as hell didn't help the game's sales.

Comparing the music industry to the video game industry is faulty. Smaller production team (which means more money), income not necessarily generated from customer sales, etc.

If you even place as much as one percent (1%) on one 'hypothetical customer' (or pirate) -- now multiply the amount of customers by one hundred thousand, then by one hundred million -- it will unqestionably generate some amount of loss, at a certain point. For that not to happen, each 'potential costumer' must have a 0% rate of being a pirate, or each 'potential pirate' must have a 100% rate of becoming a costumer.

At this point, no analyst in the world would claim that piracy does not do any damage. No person who looks at statistics and the entertainment industry put together that is smarter than you or me would come and say "piracy is harmless". (It's also not the death of the industry, obviously. We're still doing better than ever, commercially at least).

SkyWard20

Where did I compare the music industry to the video game industry?

I asked you to demonstrate that it hurts. Demonstration is done by linking coherent logical steps until the thesis comes out. Wild assumptions are not a demonstration.

Yeah, but Mike Capps makes his share of asinine comments too. People tend to lay everything at Young Clifford's feet because he's the face of the company.Cherokee_Jack

You mean the ass of the company :P

Well, Gears of War did flop on the PC. I don't think PC gamers have the right to whine they didn't port Gears 2 and 3 over considering the sales failure of the first game. And the flop may also be piracy related.nameless12345