Are you happy not having intellectual complex video games?

considering he's one of the dumbest people in this forum i find that irony quite funny.

Bring back real videogames thank you. Eg. DOOM, C&C Red Alert, TR1, NFS3, Medievil, Crash Bandicoot..

I don't understand people that are voting "Games are getting streamlined, the more people that play the better" in what friggin reality is that better? how do YOU benefit from more dense strangers that have a passing interest play and effect the way games are designed better?

its like friggin carebear syndrome.... just voting that answer to make yourselves look better, when logically it's not better in any regard.

TC couldnt think his way out of a paper bag

Bravely Default, while appearing to be a story with bland characters and a boring story. If you really take the time to do the sidequests in Ch5-8 and read D's Journal, there is so much backstory to make these dumb characters have some depth.

I think that while you have a point the mindset that a shallower game is a lesser game(one I would completely agree with), the thing everyone is actually voting for is the notion that more the merrier.

There is nothing wrong with the medium trying to appeal to everyone. It's not like the games with actual depth or gameplay vanished. They did however stop being frequent entries in the triple A space, but that space by it's very nature was always going to need to go hollywood. You can't spend that much money, and try to appeal to a niche audience. Especially with the single player space. Plus pixels/resolution sells more than trying to explain what makes your gameplay interesting.

I don't think anyone seasoned in this medium truly wants shallow games(though whatever this forum is a bad example of that), but at the same time there is nothing wrong with the idea that we should let our hobby grow. There should be some kind of a balance, and frankly I think there is.

Shut up! David Cage and ND FTW. Press 'X' to win all the way.

Too complex

My friends, the media appear to be part of the problem. if a non game like Assassins Creed or Call Duty exist, this is winrar.

If a game with a learning curve that requires something of you (arma really isn't THAT complicated), it gets a big rant from bias gaming media's. Interestingly as well, even though arma 3 is one of the most photo realistic games in existence, in a large sandbox environment no less, copy pasted assets get brought up to denote it. Yet if Call Of Duty, a 2 hour game, copies not only assets but entire segments for previews games, that somehow gets ignored.

Gamings media's + young people + publishers + consoles + other things = badness. Forever.

I really believe, looking at gaming as a whole, there is something for everyone. I see many complain that gaming is hand holding and not tough enough anymore, yet there are games out there like that. It is a major business now. And being that, it must sell product. You strive to sell product to as many as possible, and that means appealing to a majority. The majority is not us. They are the gamers who want to be entertained in the few hours they have to put in. I don't hate or blame any for that. If gaming was still "in the basement", so to speak, the production values would be no where near what we see.

Exactly part of the reason gaming is so shit these days. A lot of the money poured into them go into marketing.

More complex doesn't automatically mean higher quality.

Get a life, Jankarop/Sniper.

Those games are there. It's a matter of looking in the right places.

So you're opposed to the industry encouraging more people to enter the pastime. Even more, you've appointed yourself to judge which people should and shouldn't be permitted entry, because ultimately the industry revolves around what you want... is that it?

The unbelievable arrogance of it all :|

*****

On a different note, I just remembered this video from Extra Credits that discusses "Depth vs Complexity". The assumption is that more complex = more depth. But the actual correlation between the two being that the most depth can actually be achieved from the least amount of complexity.

Another false assumption is that a game should have a bulky rule set to be "intellectual", but in reality the mental engagement comes from allowing the player to think their own way in how to implement the games system, rather than processing a lot of data. When it's done right, the game is intuitive rather than instructive. So you don't really need complex rules, just the right design of rules to allow the player to engage and explore them to create that interactive experience.

But hey, check out the video that explains this a whole lot better than I can :)

Yet looking at the rage over graphics, a lot of money goes into the productions as well. Would gamers be willing to go back some steps visually in order to have the types of games you talk about? Devs will not be able to market these to the pop culture consumers, so they wont be able to roll the funds into these types as they do now.

1) I'm not implying more people shouldn't play games, this is more towards those franchises that have dumbed themselves down, not every game has to appeal to friggin everyone... it stops doing what it does best then.

2) I don't need a drawn out explanation of a concept that is sometimes the case, but barely ever when it comes to games.

Intellectually.

And no, not really anyway. I prefer a good story but I enjoy being part of that story, not for example how planescape torment handled it by giving you more text to read than a novel.

@TheEroica: OP calls games pretentious..... Doesn't realize how pretentious he/she is..... Fail LOL

@Animal-Mother: wait... I'm pretentious? So true. Indies indies Rabble Rabble.... Indies rule

This. My favorite game of the last generation is mega complex and unique, but I don't want every game to require so much in depth gameplay. Sometimes I just wanna blow some fools up.

@TheEroica: Really? I said OP noob. That means original post nub. UCs post is pretentious ass face :P

@Animal-Mother: wait... Who's ass face? :P

the hottest chick just drove by me at a red light. Daumn.

games never have puzzles so complex I can't solve them, more often if I can't progress in a game it's because I get lost or can't find out what to do next

only one game had a puzzle I couldn't figure out in the last few years (at least that comes to mind), and that was in the first Fatal Frame game, there was a door that had some kind of puzzle and nothing about the puzzle made any sense, I think maybe there was a localization issue with that puzzle, anyhow just went online to find an answer

@TheEroica: You are.....

Nice to see option A leading ATM .

Movies are movies , games are Games . A game should not be an interactive movie , we need more complex games targeted towards real gamers .

Says the guy sporting a Witcher sig ;P

Witcher is awesome . Best RPG since Planescape Torment in my opinion .

@underdog123x: I don't know if that was a shot at me or him.

Which is also a very cinematic game ;)

a game doesn't have to mind **** you to be fun. Sometime you just want to play mario kart and relax.

streamlined = intellectual.

You will rarely see a physicist that will refuse a calculator or computer model in favor of needlessly complex computations. Smart people like things that are easier, smart people go out of their way to make things easier.

One of the worst threads I've seen on here for quite a while.

I never said anything about being cinematic . I said "interactive Movies" , the games that have press A to win gameplay like The Walking Dead or Uncharted etc . Witcher is RPG , cutscenes are necessary to show outcome of your choices . You missed the point .

I guess this is a miscommunication over semantics, heh :)

But I do see a lot of people express hate towards cinematic games, when it's really the Quick Time Events (or what you call "press A to win") that are the point of contention. And there's just too much misconception of using the two terms interchangeably when there's really a world of difference between the two. And I enjoy a game with solid cinematic presentation that enhances the story quality of a game.

That said I don't think you can compare Walking Dead to Uncharted. Because there's a stark difference in how the button interface is implemented. With Uncharted the QTE mechanic is centered around the action. For this and a lot of other action driven games (resident Evil 6 being another gross offender) having so much scripted mechanics undermines the players self determined skill for combat and action.

But Walking Dead was never an action game to begin with, so there is no interference to the players skill. It's a character and story driven adventure, in which case it's not "press A to win" but rather "press A to advance story".

I don't think we need such a strict separation of game and story, especially when a game can unfold a story so effectively with the players direct participation like TWD does, even excels at. The way the players choices impacts the plot and character development is story telling unique which can't be achieved in traditional film media.

So why not embrace the "interactive movie" as a game design to coexist along side cinematic games as well as skill based action games?

marketing is only part of the problem... the main problem (if you would call it that) is the mainstream gaming consumer base (just look at all the people who have created and posted in titanfall threads on here). if the masses didn't buy these "streamlined" games, they would have been phased out for these "intellectually complex" titles. unfortunately, that's not what the masses want.

also.... I kind of want to know a handful of games you consider "intellectually complex" outside of the ones you've already listed.

Uncharted has very few qte's and the qte's it does have are really about creating an interactive cutscene as opposed to the player simply watching. I also notice that many people hate qte's because they don't press the right button in time and die.

Are you telling me a smart person would rather play checkers instead of chess?

I want more games like FFVII and Megaman x4.

I gave the example of TWD because it is not a challenging game like other point and click games . It feels like a movie (Click to trigger cutscene) . On other hand Uncharted features scripted event after scripted event after scripted event, divided into small shooting galleries and you are following a linear path from start to end . I do agree that both complex games and casual games can exist together but the problem is that too many games are targeted towards casual market these days . Due to this reason lot of old franchises have also been dumbed down for the masses . That’s why we need more complex games at this stage .