60 fps needs to be next gen's standard

LOL. Love the ego bashing. Good stuff.

If 60 fps hasn't become the standard since the last two generations, it never will. With limited hardware overhead, the publishers will always have to sacrifice performance for eye candy.

You probably drank the "human eye can't see above 30 fps" kool-aid too.

Oh and, sour grapes much?

i mean we could probably all adapt to 720p so games should just be at that resolution and call it a day!!!

How can 60 frames-per-second be a standard in the next generation if the issues have yet to be solved?

Didn't you hear? 720p is also overrated. 480p is good enough and anyone saying otherwise is elitist!! ;P

Yawn! Please share your opinion with someone else. :)

60 fps would never be the standard? Unless you live in a world were graphics would be perpetually pushing the limits of hardware in a manner that developers would see the need to take performance hits for marginal gains then.

Your response to the bold seems rather out of place since there was no indication or implication of the human eye not being able to see above 30fps. Seems like your are grasping and the sour grapes comment only solidifies that notion.

@BassMan: If having low standards mean not crying over silly superfluous expensive things, than I'm happy with having low standards.

As long as you are happy, then no worries. Just don't try to say that 30fps is good, because it isn't. It's playable, but not good.

That diminishing returns meme has been said every generation, and every generation it's false. Tech is consistently improving, it's not just textures that limit the framerate. Scale n field of view will impact it too. How many different interactable objects, effects, etc. Fact is the trade of for 30 faps, is all the other visual touches they can add to a console game.

To make a console game 60 faps

You either have a a lot of empty space in an open world: The Phantom Pain

Have really small scaled, if not linear level design: Devil May Cry 5

Or the visuals rely more on a stylized look than being a technical marvel: Doom 4, Halo 5

Sure m8, find me where i ve said that bs!!!

Sour much??? Because i don't agree with you???

What kind of world do you live in??? Lalaland???

Meme? WTF are you talking about? It is a fact that we have reached that point. The power needed to take graphics to the "next" level is already hitting hard with real time ray-tracing. Why ray-tracing because that's really all that is left at the moment. Tech is not infinite and the limits of the existing tech is real. 60FPS is not some sort of pipe dream like many of you all pretend it to be. The industry simply needs better/smarter algorithms more than faster processors for improved performance.

Because it's a meme slick, character madels, facial models, hair tech/fur, all sorts of stuff can be more fluid or more detailed, especially when compared to any sort of animated work. At the end of the day they are going to be able to squeeze out more things (with larger draw distances no less) and put more things on screen, by giving up 60 faps. The consoles will always settle for 30 frames, because 30 frames has been considered acceptable for 3d games for so long. Especially with the increased bump in resolution.

I agree. But, I really don't care if games are 30fps or 60fps most of the time. I only notice a difference when I've come back from playing a 60fps game to something in 30fps.

The human eye and fps perception line is a comparative observation to his remark about 60 fps being "overrated", the two being equally absurd as they are objectively wrong, which is the point.

Oh I know you didn't say that, but just drawing a comparative statement; that 60 fps being "overrated" is just as rational as the human eye/30 fps argument. And sour grapes seems perfectly applicable too, since the only people who call high frame rate, something that objectively better higher than lower, is only said by people who don't get to experience it.

@AdobeArtist: They are not comparative statements. One is a fact the other is an opinion. You are confusing your opinion as fact. 60fps is objectively better and can be overrated. They are not mutually exclusive. Its more ludicrous to claim that "the human eye can only see 30fps" and "60f fps is overrated" are comparative when they are not. The desire for 60fps is not universal. You are also making a merit less assumption that anyone who don't agree with your sentiment lacks the hardware to game at 60fps which is simply absurd.

@AdobeArtist:

Ive played sluggish 60fps games before. Theres more to a good playing game than framerate. Twisted Metal 1&2 both play better than any other entry in the series.

Also, while 60frames on a 60 hz display is ideal, youve also got to ask yourself if x and y game would have ever been made if design choices were scrapped in order to maintain a 60 frame target.

Zelda Breath of The Wild wildly exceeded the target hardware. No doubt the project kept becoming more and more elaborate over its development cycle that, had there been a frame target, we would never have gotten the masterpiece that we did.

@heirren: BotW is no masterpiece. Even playing it on PC at 4K/60fps can not hide the game's flaws.

"60fps is objectively better and can be overrated"

And you really don't see the contradiction in that?

overrated :- have a higher opinion of (someone or something) than is deserved.

And you really don't see the obvious lack of contradiction in that statement?

@BassMan:

Lets say its master class, but it is beside the point

Wow people are stupid.

You agree that 60 fps is objectively better, then in the same breath make the argument that it can be objectively better and overrated at the same time.

Meaning you don't understand what objective means. Objective is for something to be universally TRUE in such a way that its truth is NOT subject to opinion, feelings or bias, only quantitative facts. That's the actual definition of objectivity. Whereas overrated is entirely subjective to opinions.

There's your self contradiction - if something is objectively true, then it completely negates the measure of opinion, thus it can't be overrated.

@AdobeArtist:

It can be overrated. As i pointed out, a game like Breath of The Wild would not exist in the 60fps realm. Saying it would is pure hypothesis. The developers pushed the boundaries of the platform to accomplish it.

There were undoubtedly 60 frame games following Mario 64 but which is the more desirable experience.

I am fully aware of the meaning of objective. The problem you are having and continue to have is the meaning of the word overrated which is NOT OBJECTIVE. You continue to confuse two independent ideas. 60fps being objectively better does not remove it from the classification of being overrated. The degree at which someone views faster framerates as improving their experience in the game is subjective thus the reason someone or anyone can plainly and correctly state that 60fps is overrated.

So, OP wants current-gen graphics two gens in a row... Because that's what you're going to get with 4k/60fps.

Arguing semantics is the biggest indicator of failure.

You saying this, then no you are NOT "fully aware" of what objective means. If something can be subjectively interpreted, then it's not objective. The two words are literally, diametrically opposed. One does negate the other.

Something is either objective (fact based) or subjective (opinion based). Not both at the same time; no more than you can have a circle with straight edges and corners, or a 7 sided square.

If you've already agreed to 60 fps being OBJECTIVELY better, that discounts any opinion that it can be "overrated". Any argument to make these two true at the same time (the straight circle) is just mental gymnastics at this point. Hell you may as well argue the shape of the Earth is subjective, and that it being a sphere doesn't remove it from the classification of also being a flat disc.

In the end, it comes down to how much someone cares about quality and that is the subjective part. 60fps is obviously better, but console gamers settle for 30fps because they don't care enough about quality, don't know any better, or can't afford better.

You guys ever go to people's houses and notice the brutal motion smoothing on their TVs? People are dumb and they don't know what quality is. Heck... you have guys like Tom Cruise putting out a video just to try and educate these dumbasses....

https://twitter.com/tomcruise/status/1070071781757616128

Don't even get me started on how shit motion smoothing is for gaming and the added input lag... LOL

Yeah I agree. We had 60fps games in the PS2/Xbox era, and consoles even older had games running at 60fps. It's not the hardware that's holding the framerate back, it's the priorities of the developers. They'd rather target 30fps and crank out better visuals. We still have games struggling to hit a consistent 30fps. It's not as bad as it was last gen, but it's still disappointing.

@AdobeArtist: I am sorry to inform you that you are confusing terms. Something being better does not negate it from being overrated. Something being overrated also does not mean that it's not better. These are two different ideas. You are bizarrely mixing the two and creating false analogies and equivalency. This really boils down to you either not understanding the differences between the two ideas or your are purposely misunderstanding because it directly undermines your initial criticism.

Someone stating 60fps as being overrated is simply stating that they don't view it as highly as others. That claim is not stating that 60fps is not better. That's a false equivalency that you are making. Its simply stating that the person doesn't view this feature as much as another. It's really that simple.

Wouldn't you be a fan of MI because it makes everything smoother? :P :P

Do you work for Ubisoft?

@Epak_: I know you are just joking, but it is sad how people use MI to counter low frame rate. There is no replacement for true frames being present... unless one likes unnatural smoothness, artifacting and increased input lag of course. Use game mode peeps!

Yeah I despise MI, could look good in sports, but I don't really watch sports except maybe hockey when mah fellow Finns are playing for the world championship. Last year Samsung released TVs with MI in game mode with no real increase in lag. It was enabled automatically when I got my new TV, it didn't really work, the motion was worse, a juddery mess, actually thought I made a bad purchase until I switched it off. VRR is a welcomed addition though.

@BassMan: are you one of those guys that prefer to watch movies with the soap opera effect over regular motion? Why does everything have to be 60fps? It cripples where we can go in terms of assets. For non multiplayer games, 30 is good enough.

4K is more popular than 60 fps. And most console gamers don't know what fps is or cares about it. Therefor 60 fps will not be the standard on consoles. Sad, but true.

You can't have a basic debate with someone who doesn't even make a distinction between an evaluation ( my subjective opinion ) and facts!!!

And when you say something is better it's always subjective unless you come up with a universally recognised ladder or units to backup your claim!!!

So saying 60fps is objectively better has little meaning!!! You can say it improves precision in fps games, but i'm no competitive player so i don't give a shit!!!

That's why my opinion is that it's an overrated feature and the majority can do without but it's doesn't negate you the right to wish for it as a the next standard.

This is the biggest lie that I have heard on SW. 60 FPS, actually 75 or above FPS were a lot more common in the 90's and people were disappointed when we switched to LCDs and thus were limited to 60 FPS. PC gamers have always craved for higher FPS and much more than the current breed of PC gamers that were grown up with LCDs instead of CRTs.

Saying people were okay with Arena Shooters, Stracraft, Warcraft, DOOM with 30 FPS is an outright lie. I brought up on CRTs and 75ish FPS was all too common.

Yeah they should.

But they also need to take out GAS (Games as live Service)

Yeah comparing games to movies is dumb af, on top games are interactive while movies arent.

We went from everything at 25/30fps on 7th generation, to 30/60fps on current one. 60fps is actually already standard in genres like shooters, racers, fighting games, sport games, etc. I do believe next gen we will see 60fps in almost every game.

@BassMan: it's good according to my "low standards". Deal with it.

30fps is not good enough. I brought up movies and motion smoothing to illustrate how clueless people are when consuming media. Soap opera effect is terrible and ruins video quality. They don't know any better and are not concerned about quality. The basic bitch experience is good enough for them.

Most people are more concerned about simplicity and convenience over quality. That is why they use consoles, TV speakers/soundbars, and stream movies instead of the quality experience like gaming on PC, having a home theater system, or watching Blu-Rays.

Never ever!!!

The first 3d maze games run at like 6fps and were still successful,

Game like wing commander were capped at 24 fps.

Flightsim like Falcon/Usnf run at 30fps or less and the latter was capped at 52.33fps on some recent hardware ( relatively )

Later games like Doom or Duke3d or quake depends on the hardware run between 10 and 30fps that if you have pentium class cpu!!!

Most monitors and tvs were 60hz pal tv were 50i hz even.

But that was long before you get to know what pc is :p

He is compensating so forgive him.