60 fps needs to be next gen's standard

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aia89

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#1 aia89
Member since 2009 • 2827 Posts

I've just played GTA V on Pc - after having completed it on console - and what impressed me the most was not the graphics, but the framerate, which I feel makes the whole experience dramatically better.

I believe that graphics are no more the main factor to wow and attract gamers and that there will not most likely be a major graphical leap next gen.

Also, seeing how most people nowadays are accustomed to content in 60fps, be it videos shot with the smartphone camera, YouTube videos and so on..., it only makes sense that the next gen of gaming will focus on performance, read 60fps, as the main selling point, as framerate really can be a game changer and it does show both in the perception and look of a video game.

I'd like to hear your opinion on the matter as well

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True_Link

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#2  Edited By True_Link
Member since 2019 • 243 Posts

Blog it.

Plus, graphics sell, fps do not.

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pyro1245

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#3 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 5359 Posts

Yeah I'm all for 60 fps. It just feels so much better. People who try to 'see' the difference are missing the point.

@true_link said:

Blog it.

Plus, graphics sell, fps do not.

Yeah but who cares what sells? I want a better experience!

^The answer is console manufacturers and system wars fanboys.

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Random_Matt

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#4 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4351 Posts

Played it at 144fps, even 60 isn't great.

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BassMan

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#5 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10728 Posts

60fps or higher makes a huge difference, but most people are dumb and are easily wowed by graphics and do not care about the overall quality of the experience. That is why consoles sell well... they cater to the weak minded.

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DaVillain-

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#6 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38491 Posts

Didn't you listen to Phil Spencer, console gamers don't give a damn about 60fps+ framerates, they want shining graphics over performance. If a console gamer wants 60fs, they know where to get it and that's to build a PC for that.

I don't expect 60fps for next-gen to be the standard, just pushing more 4K games.

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Heirren

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#7 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

Over ambitious developers often move the medium forward.

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lundy86_4

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#8 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 54002 Posts

Yeah, 60fps really needs to be the baseline.

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True_Link

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#9 True_Link
Member since 2019 • 243 Posts

@pyro1245: developers care much more about sales.

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arredondo

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#10 arredondo
Member since 2004 • 689 Posts

60 fps will never be the standard for any console. Why? Because there will always be some graphic tech in some titles that will slow the machine down.

ALWAYS.

Honestly, I don't know why this basic concept is hard to understand. 60 fps games have existed on console since the days of the Atari 2600 in the 1970s, so it isn't as if this is impossible to achieve in a game in any generation. It's just that the appeal of making graphics look super advanced is why developers sometimes choose to target 30 fps at times (or less, unfortunately).

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jg4xchamp

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#11 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 61808 Posts

Won't happen. Console gamers and the mass audience simply lack the spine and standards to make 60 faps a standard. They are sub 30 gang for life.

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schu

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#12 schu
Member since 2003 • 10059 Posts

I agree. Focus on hitting 60 fps as standard. Enough is enough.

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Ezekiel43

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#13  Edited By Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 1873 Posts

The push for 4K will stop that from happening. It's insanely demanding.

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Valkeerie

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#14 Valkeerie
Member since 2013 • 315 Posts

Games in 3D aimed at 30 frames per second because the interlaced display and video frequency made them smoother. When it became progressive, we had a boost in visual quality, but not quite in framerate, and the low standard of 30 FPS was only relatively high, because Saturn and Playstation games were pushing their hardware to its limits. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater was struggling to hit 25 FPS and the framerate of GTA San Andreas was locked on PC to avoid messing with its code on the PS2.

Unlocked 60 FPS in higher frequencies with sync technology works fine. Games deserve this and their awareness comes from videos (the argument of pictures in magazines is getting old). People aren't nearly into the assets as much as they are into the quality of their displays. It's a shame, but it's also the reality, because we're empowering technology over art.

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Chutebox

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#15 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 44783 Posts

AFter a time graphics lose their appeal. 60fps wont.

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I_P_Daily

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#16 I_P_Daily  Online
Member since 2015 • 12837 Posts

@BassMan said:

60fps or higher makes a huge difference, but most people are dumb and are easily wowed by graphics and do not care about the overall quality of the experience. That is why consoles sell well... they cater to the weak minded.

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deactivated-5cab66ac558b0

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#17 deactivated-5cab66ac558b0
Member since 2018 • 78 Posts

60 fps isn't sellable to the casual audience. Commercials are recorded at 24fps so even if the game run at 60fps it won't be visible.

I'm fine with a solid 30fps, but would love if everything was 60fps with worse graphics.

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BassMan

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#18 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10728 Posts

@i_p_daily said:
@BassMan said:

60fps or higher makes a huge difference, but most people are dumb and are easily wowed by graphics and do not care about the overall quality of the experience. That is why consoles sell well... they cater to the weak minded.

If I am having a bad day... playing console and putting up with 30fps is just going to make my day worse.

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with_teeth26

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#19 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 9673 Posts

it really should be the standard

having to readjust to 30fps every time I want to play a console exclusive is always a terrible experience

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BassMan

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#20 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10728 Posts

@with_teeth26 said:

it really should be the standard

having to readjust to 30fps every time I want to play a console exclusive is always a terrible experience

Yes, painful experience.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#21 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@arredondo: Agreed with this last here. Games always look "good enough" until the next tech/gen comes along.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#22 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@with_teeth26: After playing at 144fps for a while, 30 fps is just grating.

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PinkRibbonScars

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#23 PinkRibbonScars
Member since 2019 • 128 Posts

Sonys gonna stick to 24fps for that authentic movie (game) feel

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Grey_Eyed_Elf

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#24 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 6510 Posts

60FPS standard?... Consoles are chasing resolution, you would think that would be clear by now.

So its either 4K/30FPS or 1440/60FPS... Because the coming generation is not going to have the power to do both because it can't do that with CURRENT games let alone games that aren't out yet.

The Radeon 7 chip is stronger than what the PS5 will have and this PC is using a 8700K.

So it comes down to these options:

  • 4K/30
  • Sub 4K/60 with lowered settings
  • 4K/60 with drastically lowered settings

What do you think developers will chose in a world where YouTube exists and people are doing graphics comparisons with every title out?...

Of course there will be games that can do both 4K/60FPS just but it won't be the standards because games are not equal when it comes to their power requirements, not to mention that games get better looking and more demanding so if a card more powerful than a PS5 can't do 4K/60 with every current game out NOW without lowering settings I can't imagine 4K/60 being anything more than what it is now on the X1X a rare luxury, to be honest the visual sacrifice ALONE needed in order to achieve 60FPS it in most games is not going to be justified for most developers.

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sovkhan

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#25 sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

60 fps is an overrated feature, praised by some hermits here and there!!!

Why listen to these morons, when the majority of us can adapt to 30fps and call it a day!!!

So better forget this crap and train your eyes for a magnificent 30 fps experience...

Not that hard, you will see, if your oversized ego is put aside ^^ @BassMan

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DaVillain-

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#26 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38491 Posts

@sovkhan said:

60 fps is an overrated feature, praised by some hermits here and there!!!

Why listen to these morons, when the majority of us can adapt to 30fps and call it a day!!!

So better forget this crap and train your eyes for a magnificent 30 fps experience...

Not that hard, you will see, if your oversized ego is put aside ^^ @BassMan

It's not like BassMan is wrong. Higher framerates is never overrated when you want a game to be smooth gameplay like butter. I'm devoted to PC gaming but even I can put my own personal 60fps feelings aside if a console gamer doesn't care about 60fps.

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sovkhan

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#27 sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

@davillain-:

Smooth, why should a gameplay be smooth???

Can't you adapt to input lag or 30 fps if it were a "game feature"????

And what is not overrated, is always that way for you and for you only.

Seems to me like a spoiled brat, who want it all, his way!!!!

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MonsieurX

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#28 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39200 Posts

@sovkhan said:

@davillain-:

Smooth, why should a gameplay be smooth???

Can't you adapt to input lag or 30 fps if it were a "game feature"????

And what is not overrated, is always that way for you and for you only.

Seems to me like a spoiled brat, who want it all, his way!!!!

Some people have standards

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sovkhan

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#29 sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

@MonsieurX said:
@sovkhan said:

@davillain-:

Smooth, why should a gameplay be smooth???

Can't you adapt to input lag or 30 fps if it were a "game feature"????

And what is not overrated, is always that way for you and for you only.

Seems to me like a spoiled brat, who want it all, his way!!!!

Some people have standards

Good for them ^^

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Pcmasterrace69

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#30 Pcmasterrace69
Member since 2017 • 373 Posts

I own ps4 pro and one x consoles and I made a vow to only buy games with 60fps option and avoid all the others.

Id go as far as saying 720p 60fps option for some games instead of 1080p 30fps and checkerboard 4k 30fps.

Next gen needs to have 60fps mode for every game.

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Sushiglutton

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#31 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 7269 Posts

Some games these days let you choose between performance or resolution (forgot which ones). Anyway I could see that becoming more common next gen with 4k being a thing. Perhaps you get to pick between 4k and 60 fps?

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True_Link

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#32 True_Link
Member since 2019 • 243 Posts

@Chutebox: will graphics lose their appeal though? I really don't think so.

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DaVillain-

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#33 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38491 Posts

@sovkhan: If it's a console exclusive aka PS4 exclusive, I can work with 30fps just so long as it stays locked that is, I won't bat shit about it.

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sovkhan

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#34  Edited By sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

@davillain- said:

@sovkhan: If it's a console exclusive aka PS4 exclusive, I can work with 30fps just so long as it stays locked that is, I won't bat shit about it.

Alright then, we'll agree on that one ^^

But i still think the 30/60 fps debate is as silly as hell.

Enjoy your games and if 30fps is not your thing, don't buy it and don't try to give the illusion that 60 fps is the alpha and omega of gaming...

IT ISN'T!!! FUN is!!!

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robert_sparkes

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#35 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 3407 Posts

I'm happy 1080 60 being standard next gen but can see 4k being more of a push.

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Pedro

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#36 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 35687 Posts

Humans can easily adapt to lower fps because that is what we excel at. 24fps is needed for the illusion of movement and 30fps has been fine with the general gaming population. Higher is always beneficial. Folks who claim to contrary are mostly underdeveloped humans who lack this basic human ability. That makes me sad.

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Pedro

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#37 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 35687 Posts

@davillain- said:

It's not like BassMan is wrong. Higher framerates is never overrated when you want a game to be smooth gameplay like butter. I'm devoted to PC gaming but even I can put my own personal 60fps feelings aside if a console gamer doesn't care about 60fps.

You are trying to make a factual claim based on an opinion. Higher framerates can be overrated. The idea of smooth is subjective especially when the illusion of motion is at 24fps. The most jarring element about framerate is inconsistency. Consistency allows for our brain to easily adapt because it can predict the pattern. Inconsistent framerates are a much greater problem to a person's enjoyment than higher framerates. This is a reality the insecure PC crybabies struggle with. :)

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xantufrog

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#38 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11746 Posts

I agree. It won't happen though. People like eye candy

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Vaidream45

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#39 Vaidream45
Member since 2016 • 2048 Posts

I agree with OP. Console graphics don’t need improving but the performance definitely does. But it won’t happen. Next gen with push for higher res like always.

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DaVillain-

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#40 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38491 Posts

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

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Pedro

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#41 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 35687 Posts

@davillain- said:

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

Fair enough but your message is blurred when you back someone who routinely and foolishly does on regular basis.

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sovkhan

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#42 sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

@davillain- said:

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

Got nothing to do with pc...

I'm a pc gamer for more than 30 years!!! long before the 60fps was even a thing!!!

Only in recent years pc clowns begun clinging to this nonsense, pc was, is and will always be about versatility and openness!!! Power is there for SW!!!

The thing is some people lack adaptation aptitudes and want all the other people to be the same, that is the problem with this 30/60 fps nonsense!!!

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APiranhaAteMyVa

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#43  Edited By APiranhaAteMyVa
Member since 2011 • 4132 Posts

They should, but unfortunately the resolution wars will continue and they will probably make a push for the very pointless 8K before frame rate gets considered.

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Pedro

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#44 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 35687 Posts

@sovkhan said:

Got nothing to do with pc...

I'm a pc gamer for more than 30 years!!! long before the 60fps was even a thing!!!

Only in recent years pc clowns begun clinging to this nonsense, pc was, is and will always be about versatility and openness!!! Power is there for SW!!!

The thing is some people lack adaptation aptitudes and want all the other people to be the same, that is the problem with this 30/60 fps nonsense!!!

I feel you 100%. This new breed of PC gamers are very annoying. My conclusion is that they were former console gamers that jump into PC gaming but brought their faction mentality with them.

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MonsieurX

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#45 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39200 Posts
@sovkhan said:
@davillain- said:

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

Got nothing to do with pc...

I'm a pc gamer for more than 30 years!!! long before the 60fps was even a thing!!!

Only in recent years pc clowns begun clinging to this nonsense, pc was, is and will always be about versatility and openness!!! Power is there for SW!!!

The thing is some people lack adaptation aptitudes and want all the other people to be the same, that is the problem with this 30/60 fps nonsense!!!

Long before 4k or 1080p was a thing!!! Things change, they evolve.

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Heirren

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#46 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@MonsieurX:

My pc gamer fanboy friend showed me his 4k setup said look how awesome the AA is for these games, so i pulled out my Vectrex console and laughed in his face.

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sovkhan

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#47 sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

@MonsieurX said:
@sovkhan said:
@davillain- said:

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

Got nothing to do with pc...

I'm a pc gamer for more than 30 years!!! long before the 60fps was even a thing!!!

Only in recent years pc clowns begun clinging to this nonsense, pc was, is and will always be about versatility and openness!!! Power is there for SW!!!

The thing is some people lack adaptation aptitudes and want all the other people to be the same, that is the problem with this 30/60 fps nonsense!!!

Long before 4k or 1080p was a thing!!! Things change, they evolve.

And so...

Can no longer enjoy my games on my dreamcast on a crt tv, because things evolved!!!

What nonsense is this???

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MonsieurX

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#48  Edited By MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39200 Posts

@sovkhan said:
@MonsieurX said:
@sovkhan said:
@davillain- said:

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

Got nothing to do with pc...

I'm a pc gamer for more than 30 years!!! long before the 60fps was even a thing!!!

Only in recent years pc clowns begun clinging to this nonsense, pc was, is and will always be about versatility and openness!!! Power is there for SW!!!

The thing is some people lack adaptation aptitudes and want all the other people to be the same, that is the problem with this 30/60 fps nonsense!!!

Long before 4k or 1080p was a thing!!! Things change, they evolve.

And so...

Can no longer enjoy my games on my dreamcast on a crt tv, because things evolved!!!

What nonsense is this???

Enjoying your dreamcast games at 480p and 15fps doesn't block from having 60fps standards for new games

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BassMan

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#49 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10728 Posts

@Pedro: @sovkhan: 30fps is shit and has always been shit. Consistent frame times at 30fps does not make it good. The frame times are still too high. 30fps introduces immersion breaking judder, input lag, and reduced image clarity while in motion. It all comes down to quality and standards. Anybody who tries to justify 30fps doesn't really care about quality and has low standards.

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sovkhan

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#50  Edited By sovkhan
Member since 2015 • 1300 Posts

@BassMan said:

@Pedro: @sovkhan: 30fps is shit and has always been shit. Consistent frame times at 30fps does not make it good. The frame times are still too high. 30fps introduces immersion breaking judder, input lag, and reduced image clarity while in motion. It all comes down to quality and standards. Anybody who tries to justify 30fps doesn't really care about quality and has low standards.

I'll keep my low standards over your oversized empty ego all day!!!

@MonsieurX said:
@sovkhan said:
@MonsieurX said:
@sovkhan said:
@davillain- said:

@Pedro: I can respect someone who isn't into PC gaming. Consoles & PC have their place in the gaming world, even 30/60fps and I don't go out of my way telling everyone to go PC cause we all know it's not for everyone.

Got nothing to do with pc...

I'm a pc gamer for more than 30 years!!! long before the 60fps was even a thing!!!

Only in recent years pc clowns begun clinging to this nonsense, pc was, is and will always be about versatility and openness!!! Power is there for SW!!!

The thing is some people lack adaptation aptitudes and want all the other people to be the same, that is the problem with this 30/60 fps nonsense!!!

Long before 4k or 1080p was a thing!!! Things change, they evolve.

And so...

Can no longer enjoy my games on my dreamcast on a crt tv, because things evolved!!!

What nonsense is this???

Enjoying your dreamcast games at 480p and 15fps doesn't block from having 60fps standards for new games

If you can explain why it should be that way!!!

I have nothing against 60fps nor against 30, i can enjoy both, not you???