A strange thought, regarding innovation

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sonicphc

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#1 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts
So as I mentioned in another thread, I went back and S-ranked all of the side missions in Generations, completing my 100% beyond the achievements. As I did so, I realized that I had almost completely forgotten about Generations... which was weird, since it's the highest quality Sonic release since the Genesis days. "What the hell, brain?" I asked myself. "Why aren't you telling me to constantly going back and replay it like you did the others? You've only got 30 hours logged on this, and you've got close to 60 on Colors." And then I realized the same sort of apathy applied to Sonic 4. My feelings on Ep1 are not a secret, but I'm also not feeling particularly enthused (read: at all) about Ep2, even though I have fairly good faith that they've fixed it and that I'll enjoy it. Hell, come to think of it, I remember with more fondness Unleashed, Black Knight, and Secret Rings than I do Generations. And then I realized the problem: New things are exciting. Old things are... not. It's the same principle that drives internet addiction. Twitter, Facebook, Sonic Unions all give the constant possibility of new things - they're just blocks of text, but they're new all the same, and novelty = dopamine! Sonic Generations, while clever in a few of the missions (giant enemies, anyone?), didn't do anything new. It was all something I had seen before. All of the other games did something new and exciting, even if it didn't work too well. Secret Rings really brought on the "Sonic is fast" thing. Unleashed was the start of the hedgehog engine. Colors had the wisps and the first really serious branching in forever. Black Knight played completely differently, and had a lot of interesting customization options. Sure, the controls on a few of those could have used some help, but they did something NEW. I guess both Sonic 4 and Sonic Generations just feel like filler. They're like an extra map pack for a game I've already played to death. Even Shadow's game elicits more of a response from me when I think about it than Generations does. (Interestingly enough, 06 doesn't, as I got that style to death with the Adventure games). So, is there something wrong with me, or am I not alone in feeling a bit empty with Generations 5 months later?
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barren167

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#2 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts
You're coming just from the Sonic side of things. Technically speaking, even those games don't tend to be new concepts, just new for the series. Myself, I still have yet to play Generations, but games as a whole, I am finding it more difficult to enjoy familiar game concepts than I did in the past.
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srbrans

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#3 srbrans
Member since 2005 • 731 Posts
In terms of Colours, I was pretty much done with it by the end of December, when I'd gotten 9999999 points in Challenge mode. So Generations was hardly different for me. When I had Unleashed on 360 there was a bit more I did because of putting different BGM with the levels but on thinking about it, maybe I do elicit disproportionately more of a reaction than with Generations.
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sonictrainer

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#4 sonictrainer
Member since 2008 • 15187 Posts

After I 100% the game, I haven't touched it since New Years Eve.

I like the game but I feel like something's missing from it.

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kbaily

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#5 kbaily
Member since 2007 • 13042 Posts

I've said this before the catch 22 of gaming is "innovation without alienation" if a series doesn't innovate, it stagnates, but if it changes too much it risks alienating its audience. Yes people should be open to new ideas but in the end you have an easier time making water not be wet. Sonic tired all sorts of "innovations:" playable friends, questing, weapons, slower beat em up gameplay and we saw how well those resonated with audiences.

Let's face it, aside from things like the homing attack and boosting the only true innovation that people weren't alienated by was Colors powers. Sonic has to be able to run fast and do platforming or it's not Sonic. Look at Banjo. Rare tried to "innovate" by essentially removing all his signature moves and making him build cars, ever nearly everyone hated it because it wasn't a Banjo game, it was Banjo copy/pasted into some other game. Black Knight might have been different but it bombed. Nobody wanted to play Sonic with a sword. Remember when Nintendo tried to give Mario a weapon in the form of a water pack and drastically change the gameplay? Sure the game still sold a million but a majority of folks looked at it and said "this isn't Mario" hence why people's fondest memories of that game were the floating areas where Mario was robbed of his water pack.

But then there are people who think the abilities in Colors were too "gimmicky" and would rather the series just repeat Generations formula which people will get tired of but then Pokemon has made the same game year after year with only added critters and minor changes and it still sells a buttload with each installment.

So it comes down to the what the consumer market demands.

Same old thing=$$$ New and innovative things= no sale

It sucks I know and there's nothing you can do about it. I've ranted numerous times about how consumers buy the same old same FPS sequels and EA roster updates while new and innovative games like Psychonauts, Okami, etc. tank this is why game companies are too afraid to try new IPs. The same applies to movies and a lot of media.

Phillip Fry said it best: "New things make people scared and smart things make people feel dumb. People want to see the same thing over and over again." But bear in mind I'm not singling out induviduals quoting another character "A person is smart. People are dumb and panicky." This is why Hollywood is wasting time and money adapting every board game and toy line into film and cranking out endless sequels as opposed to trying new and unique ideas.

Sorry phc, don't expect to see any major innovations in Sonic now. Sega tried that for a while, people didn't buy it.

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sonicphc

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#6 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts
Uh, I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that post, Kbaily. You're coming across as antagonistic, as though I need to be set straight or something. I'm just trying to spark up some interesting discussion. >_> I just feel like Generations was too much rehash. There wasn't a single thing "new" about it, other than they occasionally took away your homing attack (IE: Classic Sonic). All the levels were old skins, which was the point, but really left me feeling empty about the whole thing. They're pulling the nostalgia card too much. Like sonictrainer said, it feels like there's something missing, and it's not Pinball DLC.
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kbaily

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#7 kbaily
Member since 2007 • 13042 Posts
Well I will agree that a few more actual levels would've been nice and I keep wondering when Sega's going to release some DLC for this. There's tons of Sonic levels open for adapation and everyone assumed being a 360/PS3 exclusive would eventually release some new stages. Then again we thought the same of Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing and then all we got was Metal Sonic and the Death Egg,
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sonicphc

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#8 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts
I dunno. Extra DLC levels would be nice, but I don't think they're going to elevate Generations to that "awesome" center of my brain. It's more content, sure, but it's not particularly new. So... I know we've had threads like this before, but I'd like to open the floor: What one, small tweak would you make to the Sonic formula to make the next game actually interesting?
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koolkat14

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#9 koolkat14
Member since 2009 • 10428 Posts
I kind of had the same feeling with Generations. Once I finished with the main acts and missions in Generations (never did bothered to get an S-rank in all of them or try to 100% the game). It's a great game but it sort of feels like 'been there, done that' kind of thing....maybe.
So... I know we've had threads like this before, but I'd like to open the floor: What one, small tweak would you make to the Sonic formula to make the next game actually interesting?sonicphc
More paths to boost. :P Seriously though I'd probably make the levels more like the ones in Modern Seaside Hill or Sky Sanctuary.
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barren167

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#10 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts
I can think of a lot of stuff I'd like, but nothing that anyone else here would care for, mainly because it'd actually change the game, it might just not feel like every game previously or something like that.
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Soniczero1993

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#11 Soniczero1993
Member since 2005 • 35070 Posts
Change the game? You monster.
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barren167

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#12 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts
I know, I'm evil and the enemy of about 75% of game consumers. Because, you know, I liked Sonic & the Black Knight, Sonic Battle, and Sonic Labyrinth.
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Soniczero1993

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#13 Soniczero1993
Member since 2005 • 35070 Posts
Well I haz no problems with Battle, and Black Knight was, eh, but Labyrinth I didn't enjoy.
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kbaily

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#14 kbaily
Member since 2007 • 13042 Posts
I will say this is where the OPTION to play as other characters or some sort of online co-op play might have been nice. 4 player co-op is a big thing for platformers right now and one thing that made Sonic 3 and Knuckles enduring was the ability to swap and play as Sonic, Tails or Knuckles, explore other areas. Giving players to go back and play through a tough mission with someone who can fly like Tails or climb up walls like Knuckles would allow players to explore a stage in a new way. We all agreed that the reason the friends sucked was when Sega made them slow and gave them stupid things to do like fetch quests and shooting and fishing. Imagine how much easier getting some of those red coins would be if you had the option to get a character who not only could go fast like Sonic but be able to fly or climb up? I know playing Sonic CD as Tails makes finding the robot generators a hell of a lot easier. Same with Sonic Advance 3 where the Knuckles/Tails combo made finding those stupid Chao hidden all over creation a lot easier.