Why do you hate China?

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DaVillain-

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#101  Edited By DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 39388 Posts

After reading everyone's post, feels like my next vacation will be going to China and see how bad it really is compare to what Social Media says. Next year seems to be a good start, another reason to get out more and see what's the fuss about.

I am American after all, we seems to have somewhat good relation with each other...just as long as it doesn't involve Political affairs that is.

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LeicaM6

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#102 LeicaM6
Member since 2019 • 307 Posts

@davillain-: that seems like a terrible reason to go somewhere for vacation. May as well go to North Korea or Iraq to see “how it really is”.

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burntbyhellfire

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#103 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

@leicam6 said:

@davillain-: that seems like a terrible reason to go somewhere for vacation. May as well go to North Korea or Iraq to see “how it really is”.

wasnt too long ago a girl from europe figured she'd hitchhike across the middle east to prove it wasn't so bad.. she didnt even make it past turkey before she was raped and murdered

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Kadin_Kai

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#104 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@davillain-: Let me know when you come. I spend half my time in China, if the timing is right we can go for a meal or two!

I spend quite a lot of time in HK, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Chengdu, occasionally Beijing and Yunnan areas!

Yunnan is the best, my favourite part.

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Kadin_Kai

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#105 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@burntbyhellfire: China is one of the safest countries in the world! Go check the statistics!

Women can go out walking in the middle of the night without any problems. People do not own guns either.

Statistically speaking, the US is far more dangerous than China.

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Willy105

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#106 Willy105
Member since 2005 • 24927 Posts

China would be great if you are fine with the government watching your every move and giving you a score for all the things you do or post, and punishing others for being with someone with a lower score. Also if you are fine with their concentration camps for the minorities, or disappearance of people who criticize the government, or how the leader suppresses criticism and bans anything that is seen as even in support of something that doesn't like China.

It's especially sad because a lot of Chinese in the country and even some outside of it don't even know about it because China censors all their internal social media. Just look at all the Chinese that believe the kids protesting in Hong Kong are terrorists or something.

If you just want to be happy being fed and living in a stable, rich country without thinking too much about it, then China should be fine for you. If you want anything more though, probably stay away.

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DaVillain-

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#107 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 39388 Posts

@kadin_kai: You in HK? Never thought I see any GS who happens to live in China.

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burntbyhellfire

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#108  Edited By burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@burntbyhellfire: China is one of the safest countries in the world! Go check the statistics!

Women can go out walking in the middle of the night without any problems. People do not own guns either.

Statistically speaking, the US is far more dangerous than China.

Sure, and it only took mass murder of over 45 million of their own people over a 4 year period by their government to do it. What a utopia. What a great government. (sarcasm)

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Kadin_Kai

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#109 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

If you want to talk about history, why not begin with the genocide of Native Americans?

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Kadin_Kai

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#110 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@davillain-: I am based partly in HK and partly in various parts of China. I've been in Zhuhai, China for the past week or so. A good place for seafood, especially oysters.

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Kadin_Kai

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#111 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@Willy105: I always find it funny, how only western nations have an Islamic terrorism problem. I think the camps are far better compared to the invasion of Afghanistan wouldn't you say?

Do you actually have an understanding of how the social credit system works? I've written about this in the previous pages. Before you know, it will eventually be in most countries around the world in some form or another.

The majority of the people in Hong Kong think the kids are bordering on terrorism too. How would you classify, beating up people/setting fire to people/killing people who hold different political views, slashing the necks of police, pouring acid on the police? Go on YouTube and search, "speak out Hong Kong," they have collected some excellent videos.

You may not speak Chinese, but if you listen to some of the news sites, a protester poured alcohol over a man and then burned him. He is still fighting for his life. Some of the protesters claimed it was, "spontaneous human combustion," despite the video evidence. Does your local police tolerate all this? I don't think so.

It's a real shame, that the western media shows an entirely different point of view of the situation in HK. Take a look at the local paper, created by the people in Hong Kong, South China Morning Post!

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burntbyhellfire

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#112  Edited By burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

@kadin_kai: Lmao, are you speaking of the wars with native tribes that went both ways? Where at most, 15,000 or so native americans actually lost their lives? Yeah, that SO equates to the 45 MILLION (let that number sink in) killed by their own government in the name of communism. Yeah, whatever you need to justify supporting one of the most inhuman governments in the world today. So no, the topic here is China, let's talk about those 45 million killed.

Or hey, since you think China is so fantastic, how about we talk about what it's like there for the women. Or the million or so who are murdered as babies because the parents didn't want a girl as their only child. In fact I have a friend I speak to daily, she is 100% Chinese, born there, left to die but was luckily found quick enough and was adopted by an American family. Do you think she's wishing she had stayed in China? Probably not.

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Kadin_Kai

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#113 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@burntbyhellfire: So eager to talk about all the negatives of another country, but so afraid to face up to your own bloody history. Native Americans love their lives? What an absolute joke!

Go to Chambers and Partner's legal directory, there are specialists lawyers fighting for Native American rights!

A war? It was an invasion? How can it be both ways? Or do you believe the Caucasian American's living in the US were natively there? If you want to talk about lives lost, let's start with the genocide of Native Americans, then let's jump to Vietnam, then Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Libya, then Syria and gosh so many more. Give me a body count! Not to forget, the supremely amazing Donald Trump, who now thinks Israeli settlements in the West Bank are legal? Not so according to the rest of the world!

Well in China, sure people have been killed, there are injustices. Since when have I said China is perfect? It is not.

But the fact is, women in China are actually more free than those in the US. In China, women can walk anywhere without fear of rape. There are more Chinese female entrepreneurs than any other country.

But if you want to talk about specific cases, well let's talk about Yingying Zhang, a Chinese student kidnapped and murdered in the US!

But you're referring to the 1979-2015 One Child Policy. The fact is countless babies have been killed, countless abortions have taken place, it is an undeniable fact. The Chinese culture encourages births, my father has six brothers and one sister, this was very common.

The One-Child Policy was a very harsh policy in China, but without it, millions more would have died. Check the data on the World Bank website, China's birthrate doubled every decade in 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Without the One-Child policy, China's population would not be 1.40 billion, it would be closer to 2.40 billion.

If that persisted, well the whole of China would be a complete failed state. Literally millions of children would have died from starvation. Is that your preference?

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JimB

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#114 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2668 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@jeezers: There is a region of China, which is not so harsh on the whole pot issue, that's Yunnan. If you love weed, then Yunnan is the place to go.

It's naturally grown all over the place, you can smell it. In the mountains, you can find honey infused with THC naturally. I've seen small shops that sell it under the counter.

There's a big western presence in Kunming, loads of bars and western food. You might like it!

I was there in summer, my plan is to retire there someday. Google it, it's really beautiful.

Actually, when you talk of intellectual property, the problem isn't the Chinese government, it's actually the Chinese people. After all, the fake stuff is not produced by the state, its produced by unscrupulous business people. I've seen raids (I've talked about this already) in the Underground Shopping Centre in Gongbei, Zhuhai. I've seen raids on shadow bankers as well.

Parts of China are highly polluted, but China is huge and the manufacturing areas are in parts of China. But on the environment, China is doing more than any other country. It has the biggest fleet of electronic cars, it produces more solar, hydro and wind power than any other country. The Shanghai region recently introduced some very tough laws and hefty fines regarding recycling.

My parents have a place in Zhuhai, China, it's right next to HK. Around 1/3 of the taxi's are BYD electronic cars and there are no heavy manufacturers, they're banned as its a touristy city.

Strip Clubs, are illegal, but there are underground ones. There are loads of KTV's with hostesses. I have only been twice (I hate loud music and I cannot sing). I believe at some places, the hostesses will pretty much do anything if you pay her, but of course, it is illegal, but you rent a huge room with a huge TV and there are no cameras in the room!

On the Big Brother/ Orwellian Society. You are kinda right in some ways, but it's not as dark as one thinks. CCTV's with facial recognition in China is highly supported by the population.

I think I have covered most of your other issues above.

Additionally, I want to note, gun ownership is a no-no in China!

@jeezers said:

I have no problem with the people its more with thier government. How they censor so much shit, they dont recognize privacy, social credit scores, also they dont recognize intellectual property, you can get a good price building something you patened over in china but dont be surprised when companies over there start building off brand versions of your design, workers rights are poor, the way thier factories treat workers are poor, pollution seems excessive, yes china will get americans a better price on manufacturing, but it comes at a price that is hidden, because we dont have to see it from over here.

Also suicide nets...

Arent they putting muslims in reeducation camps?

And another thing why are they so harsh on pot.

Personally i would not want to live there. **** all that i like americas constitution/bill of rights too much. Chinas government from the outside looks like the prototype for a big brother/orwelian nation, something i hope america never turns too, but even sometimes here, people worry me..

Edit: just read your comment above, i diddnt know porn was banned as well.. I did not know that lol no wonder they have so many people. I'm not surprised, what about strip clubs? They ban those too?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-11-20-mn-64853-story.html

Because the citizens can not own guns millions of them have been killed by the Chinese Government.

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Willy105

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#115 Willy105
Member since 2005 • 24927 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@Willy105: I always find it funny, how only western nations have an Islamic terrorism problem. I think the camps are far better compared to the invasion of Afghanistan wouldn't you say?

Do you actually have an understanding of how the social credit system works? I've written about this in the previous pages. Before you know, it will eventually be in most countries around the world in some form or another.

The majority of the people in Hong Kong think the kids are bordering on terrorism too. How would you classify, beating up people/setting fire to people/killing people who hold different political views, slashing the necks of police, pouring acid on the police? Go on YouTube and search, "speak out Hong Kong," they have collected some excellent videos.

You may not speak Chinese, but if you listen to some of the news sites, a protester poured alcohol over a man and then burned him. He is still fighting for his life. Some of the protesters claimed it was, "spontaneous human combustion," despite the video evidence. Does your local police tolerate all this? I don't think so.

It's a real shame, that the western media shows an entirely different point of view of the situation in HK. Take a look at the local paper, created by the people in Hong Kong, South China Morning Post!

You know how you give your country an Islamic terrorist problem? Lock up innocent Islamic peoples to make them hate you and everything you stand for.

Although the situation in Hong Kong is starting to deteriorate, keep in mind that the protesters did not start any of this. It is the police that caused the violence, the kids all tried to peacefully protest what the Chinese government was doing until it became clear that even speaking against China would get them jail time. There is no scenario where the Chinese government has the better look here.

Also, you claim these papers were created by the local people in Hong Kong, but there's a reason they haven't been shut down or its staff members arrested: they say what China wants them to say.

You seem sincere, but that's only because you are told what China wants you to think and that's all you know. That's understandable considering your situation, but it is not right.

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Kadin_Kai

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#116  Edited By Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@JimB: There is no doubt, that Mao made many mistakes, nobody is questioning that. When Xi Jinping first came into power, even Mao's picture was removed from Tiananmen Sq. But, some of the old guard is still around and magically it was up again.

Is that why you hate China? Because Mao was a fool and caused the death of millions?

Well, in that case, you must absolutely despise the United States of America. From the very beginning of its inception it was a blood bath with the genocide of Native Americans. If we exclude the time before the founding of the United States, i.e the English Colonies the US has been directly involved in at least 30 wars. That's a lot of deaths.

You must also hate the British, the French, in fact I believe most of the European Union has been at bloody war for centuries too.

It is certaintly true, it is very hard to own a firearm in China and thats a good thing. It would be terrible, if gun ownership went largely unchecked. There will be gun violence everyday, there could be mass gun shootings practially every month because some idot lost his job.

Or is it just selective hate?

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LeicaM6

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#117 LeicaM6
Member since 2019 • 307 Posts

@kadin_kai: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

This is most of your posts.

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burntbyhellfire

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#118 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

Don't worry about islamic terrorism in China not being a problem, it is. Just a couple years ago a group of Muslim Uyghurs murdered about people in a knife attack, quite a few bombings, vehicle attacks, it happens as much in China as it does in western Europe. Evidently Kadins state-run media didn't mention any of that. He has literally attempted to justify the murder of 45 innocent people, and about a million infant girls on a yearly basis as being for some greater good. Typical collectivist logic.

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burntbyhellfire

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#119 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts
@leicam6 said:

@kadin_kai: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

This is most of your posts.

And his whataboutism is laughable. "So what if my country killed 45 million of it's own people, yours killed like 15,000 in that one war 140 years ago so we're even." One of these things is not like the other.

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LeicaM6

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#120 LeicaM6
Member since 2019 • 307 Posts

@burntbyhellfire: He’s trying to boost his social credit score.

I wonder if Gamespot is even accessible in mainland China without a VPN.

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burntbyhellfire

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#121 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

@leicam6 said:

@burntbyhellfire: He’s trying to boost his social credit score.

I wonder if Gamespot is even accessible in mainland China without a VPN.

good question

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Kadin_Kai

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#122 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@leicam6: You must have a poor memory. I belive I told you previously I do not have one. But even if I did, you show practically zero understanding of how the credit score works. Do you also complain about your financial credit score too? @burntbyhellfire:Yes its available. And yes your country has a murderous past and present and probably future.

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burntbyhellfire

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#123 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

Lmao, how much are you getting paid to be this patently dishonest with yourself and everyone here?

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sakaiXx

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#124 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 6510 Posts

If I post a winnie the pooh picture here, would you get caught for viewing an illegal material?

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vl4d_l3nin

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#125 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 1990 Posts

Better question: Why are Eastern countries so insecure how other countries perceive them?

I remember when I traveled in Russia I had a bunch of Soviet-era boomers asking me if I "respect Russia". You don't get this anywhere in the West

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LeicaM6

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#126 LeicaM6
Member since 2019 • 307 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:

Better question: Why are Eastern countries so insecure how other countries perceive them?

I remember when I traveled in Russia I had a bunch of Soviet-era boomers asking me if I "respect Russia". You don't get this anywhere in the West

It’s not so much an “Eastern” thing but rather countries with massive propaganda and brainwashing campaigns have outsized views on themselves and are sensitive about anyone poking holes in the propaganda. The individual’s identity is thoroughly intertwined with the state and the state’s perception in the world.

Which is very strange because so-called “communist” countries do not care about the individual.

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burntbyhellfire

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#127 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 674 Posts

@leicam6: That explains why that guy got so triggered when I pointed out the biggest mass murder in world history, and the ongoing problem of female infanticide.

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JimB

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#128 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2668 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@JimB: There is no doubt, that Mao made many mistakes, nobody is questioning that. When Xi Jinping first came into power, even Mao's picture was removed from Tiananmen Sq. But, some of the old guard is still around and magically it was up again.

Is that why you hate China? Because Mao was a fool and caused the death of millions?

Well, in that case, you must absolutely despise the United States of America. From the very beginning of its inception it was a blood bath with the genocide of Native Americans. If we exclude the time before the founding of the United States, i.e the English Colonies the US has been directly involved in at least 30 wars. That's a lot of deaths.

You must also hate the British, the French, in fact I believe most of the European Union has been at bloody war for centuries too.

It is certaintly true, it is very hard to own a firearm in China and thats a good thing. It would be terrible, if gun ownership went largely unchecked. There will be gun violence everyday, there could be mass gun shootings practially every month because some idot lost his job.

Or is it just selective hate?

I dislike China for what they are currently doing. Their business practices, the stealing of intellectual property, currency manipulation, and flooding the US with drugs killing American citizens.

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sonicare

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#129 sonicare
Member since 2004 • 57096 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@JimB: There is no doubt, that Mao made many mistakes, nobody is questioning that. When Xi Jinping first came into power, even Mao's picture was removed from Tiananmen Sq. But, some of the old guard is still around and magically it was up again.

Is that why you hate China? Because Mao was a fool and caused the death of millions?

Well, in that case, you must absolutely despise the United States of America. From the very beginning of its inception it was a blood bath with the genocide of Native Americans. If we exclude the time before the founding of the United States, i.e the English Colonies the US has been directly involved in at least 30 wars. That's a lot of deaths.

You must also hate the British, the French, in fact I believe most of the European Union has been at bloody war for centuries too.

It is certaintly true, it is very hard to own a firearm in China and thats a good thing. It would be terrible, if gun ownership went largely unchecked. There will be gun violence everyday, there could be mass gun shootings practially every month because some idot lost his job.

Or is it just selective hate?

Here's the difference. In western society, it's fully acceptable to criticize your country, it's leadership, and it's past. Most people in the US, for example, realize that the treatment of native americans was disgraceful and unfair. There are arguments all the time about what should be done.

I don't think people are granted that same freedom in china. You want to criticize the handling of the Uighur's in China? Probably not going to be allowed to do that. In fact, you've attempted to justify that treatment in your past posts. If the crux of your defense is "well, what about those people", then that's not really a defense. The US certainly has past and current problems and is far from an ideal society. Most countries have fairly checkered pasts to be honest. But, people in the west believe that individual rights and the freedom to voice your opinions are essential human rights. That's why you see so much pushback on China, because that's not the case there. The government is incredibly insecure about any legitimate criticism and seeks to control the narrative or worse.

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Kadin_Kai

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#130 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@sonicare: Apologies for the late reply, been hugely hectic at work!

Firstly, have you ever browed a Chinese newspaper? If you have then you will realise people do comment. They will not insult Xi Jinping openly, but they do criticise it. There was quite a stir when Xi changed the constitution allowing himself more than two terms. That was quite openly criticised in China.

But even when anything goes, as in the case in Hong Kong, the people do not criticise in the same way. There are no shows like the Daily Show, or Last Week Tonight, where a presenter mocks politicians night after night.

But yes, China has less freedoms. It's a different country, it's a different system, with a different history and a different stage of development.

In fact, this is one of the root problems of western society, many cannot accept other countries are different, have a different past, and your news is often written in a way to create a certain world view.

The Chinese government does hate criticism, because contrary to Western views, the government really does a lot for the Chinese people and yet it is so often criticised.

Just take your example of the detention of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, China. 7/10 articles written in the west, write about oppression of the Uyghurs. But in fact, over the past 15 years or so, hundred of Han-Chinese people have been killed by terrorism, and EVERYTIME, it is the Uyghurs. But they fail to mention that in the majority of their articles. Moreover, countless countries mainly Muslim Majority countries are approving this method rather than killing them. Yes, that includes Saudi Arabia & Iran.

And since the Uyghurs make up less than 1% of the Chinese population, I can safely say over 95% of China approves this retaining/brainwashing method.

I will add for context, there are two main Muslim groups in China, the Hui-Muslims and the Uyghur-Muslims. The Hui are actually very well integrated into society, while the Uyghurs not so much.

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Kadin_Kai

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#131 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@JimB: I replied all of that several weeks ago. If you think China manipulates the renminbi, you don't understand monetary policy!

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Kadin_Kai

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#132 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 673 Posts

@burntbyhellfire: I get paid by having a great job working with a great team!

I am part of the research team for energy and infrastructure projects. It is mainly post-due diligence work.

My team will be assigned a project that has already past the due-diligence stage, we travel to the area to make an economic and social analysis of a project. This will typically include, a cost-benefit analysis, environmental impact analysis, social surveys, legal assessments, threats and opportunity cost assessments.

My speciality is mainly energy projects. So yes, I have this opportunity to talk to a lot of local people, work with local & central governments and the private sector.

Where do you get your intelligence from? Fox News?

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JimB

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#133 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2668 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@JimB: I replied all of that several weeks ago. If you think China manipulates the renminbi, you don't understand monetary policy!

I don't but the United States Treasury does and they have warned China about it.

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#134 Mighty-Lu-Bu
Member since 2007 • 3074 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

Hello.

I am a British born Chinese. I studied, worked and lived in the UK for 37 years. My parents were born in HK. But I chose to move to China a few years ago, I spend half my time in HK and the other half in China.

Over the past decade, when I was still in the UK I travelled to HK and China frequently for work and pleasure.

I have read so many comments from people on Gamespot and others that hate the Chinese Government or Chinese people.

I want to know why? What is your experience of China?

If you do hate, can you provide a logical, reasonable and informed argument?

China has had a communist/socialist government for longer than I have been alive and it is an authoritarian government that suppresses its people. In fact, China's government is one of the most tyrannical and corrupt governments out there. Chinese people do not know what the word freedom is which is why the people of HK are trying to get their independence. I have nothing again the Chinese people, but the Chinese government, as well as the Russian government, are about as bad as it gets.

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sonicare

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#135 sonicare
Member since 2004 • 57096 Posts

@kadin_kai said:

@sonicare: Apologies for the late reply, been hugely hectic at work!

Firstly, have you ever browed a Chinese newspaper? If you have then you will realise people do comment. They will not insult Xi Jinping openly, but they do criticise it. There was quite a stir when Xi changed the constitution allowing himself more than two terms. That was quite openly criticised in China.

But even when anything goes, as in the case in Hong Kong, the people do not criticise in the same way. There are no shows like the Daily Show, or Last Week Tonight, where a presenter mocks politicians night after night.

But yes, China has less freedoms. It's a different country, it's a different system, with a different history and a different stage of development.

In fact, this is one of the root problems of western society, many cannot accept other countries are different, have a different past, and your news is often written in a way to create a certain world view.

The Chinese government does hate criticism, because contrary to Western views, the government really does a lot for the Chinese people and yet it is so often criticised.

Just take your example of the detention of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, China. 7/10 articles written in the west, write about oppression of the Uyghurs. But in fact, over the past 15 years or so, hundred of Han-Chinese people have been killed by terrorism, and EVERYTIME, it is the Uyghurs. But they fail to mention that in the majority of their articles. Moreover, countless countries mainly Muslim Majority countries are approving this method rather than killing them. Yes, that includes Saudi Arabia & Iran.

And since the Uyghurs make up less than 1% of the Chinese population, I can safely say over 95% of China approves this retaining/brainwashing method.

I will add for context, there are two main Muslim groups in China, the Hui-Muslims and the Uyghur-Muslims. The Hui are actually very well integrated into society, while the Uyghurs not so much.

I agree that terrorism is an awful thing, but do you really believe that China's response to the Uyghurs is correct? We suffer from terrorism in this country as well. A lot of it is because of my country's foreign policy and how it treats the native lands of these terrorists. But I don't agree with a trumpian policy of ending immigration from those countries or attempting to erase their culture and perspective out of fear. Do you really think that eradicating Uyghur history and culture is the solution to acts of violence likely committed by an incredibly small amount of people?