Why do you hate China?

After reading everyone's post, feels like my next vacation will be going to China and see how bad it really is compare to what Social Media says. Next year seems to be a good start, another reason to get out more and see what's the fuss about.

I am American after all, we seems to have somewhat good relation with each other...just as long as it doesn't involve Political affairs that is.

@davillain-: that seems like a terrible reason to go somewhere for vacation. May as well go to North Korea or Iraq to see “how it really is”.

wasnt too long ago a girl from europe figured she'd hitchhike across the middle east to prove it wasn't so bad.. she didnt even make it past turkey before she was raped and murdered

@davillain-: Let me know when you come. I spend half my time in China, if the timing is right we can go for a meal or two!

I spend quite a lot of time in HK, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Chengdu, occasionally Beijing and Yunnan areas!

Yunnan is the best, my favourite part.

@burntbyhellfire: China is one of the safest countries in the world! Go check the statistics!

Women can go out walking in the middle of the night without any problems. People do not own guns either.

Statistically speaking, the US is far more dangerous than China.

China would be great if you are fine with the government watching your every move and giving you a score for all the things you do or post, and punishing others for being with someone with a lower score. Also if you are fine with their concentration camps for the minorities, or disappearance of people who criticize the government, or how the leader suppresses criticism and bans anything that is seen as even in support of something that doesn't like China.

It's especially sad because a lot of Chinese in the country and even some outside of it don't even know about it because China censors all their internal social media. Just look at all the Chinese that believe the kids protesting in Hong Kong are terrorists or something.

If you just want to be happy being fed and living in a stable, rich country without thinking too much about it, then China should be fine for you. If you want anything more though, probably stay away.

@kadin_kai: You in HK? Never thought I see any GS who happens to live in China.

Sure, and it only took mass murder of over 45 million of their own people over a 4 year period by their government to do it. What a utopia. What a great government. (sarcasm)

If you want to talk about history, why not begin with the genocide of Native Americans?

@davillain-: I am based partly in HK and partly in various parts of China. I've been in Zhuhai, China for the past week or so. A good place for seafood, especially oysters.

@Willy105: I always find it funny, how only western nations have an Islamic terrorism problem. I think the camps are far better compared to the invasion of Afghanistan wouldn't you say?

Do you actually have an understanding of how the social credit system works? I've written about this in the previous pages. Before you know, it will eventually be in most countries around the world in some form or another.

The majority of the people in Hong Kong think the kids are bordering on terrorism too. How would you classify, beating up people/setting fire to people/killing people who hold different political views, slashing the necks of police, pouring acid on the police? Go on YouTube and search, "speak out Hong Kong," they have collected some excellent videos.

You may not speak Chinese, but if you listen to some of the news sites, a protester poured alcohol over a man and then burned him. He is still fighting for his life. Some of the protesters claimed it was, "spontaneous human combustion," despite the video evidence. Does your local police tolerate all this? I don't think so.

It's a real shame, that the western media shows an entirely different point of view of the situation in HK. Take a look at the local paper, created by the people in Hong Kong, South China Morning Post!

@kadin_kai: Lmao, are you speaking of the wars with native tribes that went both ways? Where at most, 15,000 or so native americans actually lost their lives? Yeah, that SO equates to the 45 MILLION (let that number sink in) killed by their own government in the name of communism. Yeah, whatever you need to justify supporting one of the most inhuman governments in the world today. So no, the topic here is China, let's talk about those 45 million killed.

Or hey, since you think China is so fantastic, how about we talk about what it's like there for the women. Or the million or so who are murdered as babies because the parents didn't want a girl as their only child. In fact I have a friend I speak to daily, she is 100% Chinese, born there, left to die but was luckily found quick enough and was adopted by an American family. Do you think she's wishing she had stayed in China? Probably not.

@burntbyhellfire: So eager to talk about all the negatives of another country, but so afraid to face up to your own bloody history. Native Americans love their lives? What an absolute joke!

Go to Chambers and Partner's legal directory, there are specialists lawyers fighting for Native American rights!

A war? It was an invasion? How can it be both ways? Or do you believe the Caucasian American's living in the US were natively there? If you want to talk about lives lost, let's start with the genocide of Native Americans, then let's jump to Vietnam, then Afghanistan, then Iraq, then Libya, then Syria and gosh so many more. Give me a body count! Not to forget, the supremely amazing Donald Trump, who now thinks Israeli settlements in the West Bank are legal? Not so according to the rest of the world!

Well in China, sure people have been killed, there are injustices. Since when have I said China is perfect? It is not.

But the fact is, women in China are actually more free than those in the US. In China, women can walk anywhere without fear of rape. There are more Chinese female entrepreneurs than any other country.

But if you want to talk about specific cases, well let's talk about Yingying Zhang, a Chinese student kidnapped and murdered in the US!

But you're referring to the 1979-2015 One Child Policy. The fact is countless babies have been killed, countless abortions have taken place, it is an undeniable fact. The Chinese culture encourages births, my father has six brothers and one sister, this was very common.

The One-Child Policy was a very harsh policy in China, but without it, millions more would have died. Check the data on the World Bank website, China's birthrate doubled every decade in 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Without the One-Child policy, China's population would not be 1.40 billion, it would be closer to 2.40 billion.

If that persisted, well the whole of China would be a complete failed state. Literally millions of children would have died from starvation. Is that your preference?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-11-20-mn-64853-story.html

Because the citizens can not own guns millions of them have been killed by the Chinese Government.

You know how you give your country an Islamic terrorist problem? Lock up innocent Islamic peoples to make them hate you and everything you stand for.

Although the situation in Hong Kong is starting to deteriorate, keep in mind that the protesters did not start any of this. It is the police that caused the violence, the kids all tried to peacefully protest what the Chinese government was doing until it became clear that even speaking against China would get them jail time. There is no scenario where the Chinese government has the better look here.

Also, you claim these papers were created by the local people in Hong Kong, but there's a reason they haven't been shut down or its staff members arrested: they say what China wants them to say.

You seem sincere, but that's only because you are told what China wants you to think and that's all you know. That's understandable considering your situation, but it is not right.

@JimB: There is no doubt, that Mao made many mistakes, nobody is questioning that. When Xi Jinping first came into power, even Mao's picture was removed from Tiananmen Sq. But, some of the old guard is still around and magically it was up again.

Is that why you hate China? Because Mao was a fool and caused the death of millions?

Well, in that case, you must absolutely despise the United States of America. From the very beginning of its inception it was a blood bath with the genocide of Native Americans. If we exclude the time before the founding of the United States, i.e the English Colonies the US has been directly involved in at least 30 wars. That's a lot of deaths.

You must also hate the British, the French, in fact I believe most of the European Union has been at bloody war for centuries too.

It is certaintly true, it is very hard to own a firearm in China and thats a good thing. It would be terrible, if gun ownership went largely unchecked. There will be gun violence everyday, there could be mass gun shootings practially every month because some idot lost his job.

Or is it just selective hate?

@kadin_kai: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

This is most of your posts.

Don't worry about islamic terrorism in China not being a problem, it is. Just a couple years ago a group of Muslim Uyghurs murdered about people in a knife attack, quite a few bombings, vehicle attacks, it happens as much in China as it does in western Europe. Evidently Kadins state-run media didn't mention any of that. He has literally attempted to justify the murder of 45 innocent people, and about a million infant girls on a yearly basis as being for some greater good. Typical collectivist logic.

And his whataboutism is laughable. "So what if my country killed 45 million of it's own people, yours killed like 15,000 in that one war 140 years ago so we're even." One of these things is not like the other.

@burntbyhellfire: He’s trying to boost his social credit score.

I wonder if Gamespot is even accessible in mainland China without a VPN.

good question

@leicam6: You must have a poor memory. I belive I told you previously I do not have one. But even if I did, you show practically zero understanding of how the credit score works. Do you also complain about your financial credit score too? @burntbyhellfire:Yes its available. And yes your country has a murderous past and present and probably future.

Lmao, how much are you getting paid to be this patently dishonest with yourself and everyone here?

If I post a winnie the pooh picture here, would you get caught for viewing an illegal material?

Better question: Why are Eastern countries so insecure how other countries perceive them?

I remember when I traveled in Russia I had a bunch of Soviet-era boomers asking me if I "respect Russia". You don't get this anywhere in the West

It’s not so much an “Eastern” thing but rather countries with massive propaganda and brainwashing campaigns have outsized views on themselves and are sensitive about anyone poking holes in the propaganda. The individual’s identity is thoroughly intertwined with the state and the state’s perception in the world.

Which is very strange because so-called “communist” countries do not care about the individual.

@leicam6: That explains why that guy got so triggered when I pointed out the biggest mass murder in world history, and the ongoing problem of female infanticide.

I dislike China for what they are currently doing. Their business practices, the stealing of intellectual property, currency manipulation, and flooding the US with drugs killing American citizens.

Here's the difference. In western society, it's fully acceptable to criticize your country, it's leadership, and it's past. Most people in the US, for example, realize that the treatment of native americans was disgraceful and unfair. There are arguments all the time about what should be done.

I don't think people are granted that same freedom in china. You want to criticize the handling of the Uighur's in China? Probably not going to be allowed to do that. In fact, you've attempted to justify that treatment in your past posts. If the crux of your defense is "well, what about those people", then that's not really a defense. The US certainly has past and current problems and is far from an ideal society. Most countries have fairly checkered pasts to be honest. But, people in the west believe that individual rights and the freedom to voice your opinions are essential human rights. That's why you see so much pushback on China, because that's not the case there. The government is incredibly insecure about any legitimate criticism and seeks to control the narrative or worse.

@sonicare: Apologies for the late reply, been hugely hectic at work!

Firstly, have you ever browed a Chinese newspaper? If you have then you will realise people do comment. They will not insult Xi Jinping openly, but they do criticise it. There was quite a stir when Xi changed the constitution allowing himself more than two terms. That was quite openly criticised in China.

But even when anything goes, as in the case in Hong Kong, the people do not criticise in the same way. There are no shows like the Daily Show, or Last Week Tonight, where a presenter mocks politicians night after night.

But yes, China has less freedoms. It's a different country, it's a different system, with a different history and a different stage of development.

In fact, this is one of the root problems of western society, many cannot accept other countries are different, have a different past, and your news is often written in a way to create a certain world view.

The Chinese government does hate criticism, because contrary to Western views, the government really does a lot for the Chinese people and yet it is so often criticised.

Just take your example of the detention of the Uighurs in Xinjiang, China. 7/10 articles written in the west, write about oppression of the Uyghurs. But in fact, over the past 15 years or so, hundred of Han-Chinese people have been killed by terrorism, and EVERYTIME, it is the Uyghurs. But they fail to mention that in the majority of their articles. Moreover, countless countries mainly Muslim Majority countries are approving this method rather than killing them. Yes, that includes Saudi Arabia & Iran.

And since the Uyghurs make up less than 1% of the Chinese population, I can safely say over 95% of China approves this retaining/brainwashing method.

I will add for context, there are two main Muslim groups in China, the Hui-Muslims and the Uyghur-Muslims. The Hui are actually very well integrated into society, while the Uyghurs not so much.

@JimB: I replied all of that several weeks ago. If you think China manipulates the renminbi, you don't understand monetary policy!

@burntbyhellfire: I get paid by having a great job working with a great team!

I am part of the research team for energy and infrastructure projects. It is mainly post-due diligence work.

My team will be assigned a project that has already past the due-diligence stage, we travel to the area to make an economic and social analysis of a project. This will typically include, a cost-benefit analysis, environmental impact analysis, social surveys, legal assessments, threats and opportunity cost assessments.

My speciality is mainly energy projects. So yes, I have this opportunity to talk to a lot of local people, work with local & central governments and the private sector.

Where do you get your intelligence from? Fox News?

I don't but the United States Treasury does and they have warned China about it.

China has had a communist/socialist government for longer than I have been alive and it is an authoritarian government that suppresses its people. In fact, China's government is one of the most tyrannical and corrupt governments out there. Chinese people do not know what the word freedom is which is why the people of HK are trying to get their independence. I have nothing again the Chinese people, but the Chinese government, as well as the Russian government, are about as bad as it gets.

I agree that terrorism is an awful thing, but do you really believe that China's response to the Uyghurs is correct? We suffer from terrorism in this country as well. A lot of it is because of my country's foreign policy and how it treats the native lands of these terrorists. But I don't agree with a trumpian policy of ending immigration from those countries or attempting to erase their culture and perspective out of fear. Do you really think that eradicating Uyghur history and culture is the solution to acts of violence likely committed by an incredibly small amount of people?

@sonicare: China isn’t trying to eradicate Islam or Uyghur history in China. That’s a false accusation. If you look at all the facts.

I am going to make a safe bet, that you have no knowledge about Affirmative Action Policies in China.

In China, all ethnic minorities get a pretty good deal, they’re get 50 free points in University entrance exams, while the Han-Chinese do not.

There are hundreds of autonomous areas in China where ethnic practices and customs are maintained, all ethnic minorities do not need to pay taxes to the central government.

Due to Sharia law, all Muslims in China are allowed to get interest free loans for starting up businesses and this later applied to all ethnic minorities.

Ethnic minorities in China were also not subject to the 1980-2015 One Child Policy either.

It has worked out for 55 out of the 56 ethnic minority groups in China, including the Hui-Muslims who are highly integrated into Chinese society at every level.

Is the policy wrong? Personally I think it was harsh. But the Chinese Government needed to do something to protect the rest of society.

Additionally, the west has criticised China, while the majority of the Muslim-majority nations signed letters in support of this policy.

@kadin_kai: How much Social Credit are you getting for sucking up to Winnie the Pooh? I don't hate Chinese people, but the government is awful to their people, especially harvesting human organs. Also, learning from mainlanders? LOL! Of course you'll believe them, they have been fed propaganda all their lives to believe their one party system works.

@FireEmblem_Man: Unfortunately zero, I am currently still a British citizen for the next four or five years.

Did you know, harvesting human organs has happened in practically most countries that were poor? It’s not the government doing it, it’s the seedy black market?

Have you got anything concrete to talk about? Or is it more of the usual catchphrases?

@kadin_kai: Says the bootlicker, who is probably a Chinese spy, or just a troll

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646

I have a question:

There are a lot of people who think China is a socialist country when in fact the way the economy is run it's way more a state-run autocratic capitalistic oriented society than anything else. That's at least the impression I've got when looking at Shenzhen and their labour conditions. The reason why the chinese Proletariat hasn't risen up yet is because the middle class is steadily rising and people notice this, so they bear with the current issues on human rights. And since there's a strong sense of patriotism and the idea of "One Sky, one Country" things that happen to minority groups like the Uigurs don't really get cared for by the people, as well as mechanics like the social credit system.

What do you think about this statements?

@ethic: Firstly, the Chinese economy is not a state-run autocratic system. Many many big companies have nothing to do with the state at all. For example, Alibaba/Taobao/Alipay (one of the biggest companies in the world) is now listed in the HK stock exchange and owned by Jack Ma (the richest guy in China "asshole in my opinion).

Similarly, companies such as Huawei, Xiaomi, Lenovo, Hon Hai Precision (electrical manufacturing), BYD Cars (cars and batteries), Huafa (real estate), Dashang (supermarket chain), Hengli (petrochemicals), Gree (Home appliances)....not to mention Tencent (Wechat, Wechat Pay, movies, games, music... one of the producers of Terminator Dark Fate among numerous others)

The big-state companies are usually in the essentials, oil/gas/transportation/telecoms/banking. But even in these essential sectors, there are private competitors. Some of these will inevitably break up in the future and some will become privatised....

If that is a problem, it is still in my memory when I was a child there was only British Gas, British Telecom, British Rail....this was the 1980s...

So your first statement is incorrect.

The revolt of the proletarian class (as Marx and Engels might put it) is not necessarily an inevitability. There are poor people in every society? Isn't there a huge rise in food banks in many of the wealthiest western democracies?

Why have the poor not revolted in the world's largest democratic country? India?

Moreover, village life in China is actually quite nice in my opinion. I was in Yunnan a couple of months ago. I visited Kunming (the biggest city) to touristy areas such as Ruili and poorer areas such as Longchuan. Longchuan is not very developed, it is a farming area.

Of course there is hardship there too, I fully recognise this.

The thing I learned about life as a farmer in China (in Longchuan) is that practically everyone had second or third homes. The government gave money to the farmers to build a new house around 10-15 years ago (i forgot they mentioned this), whilst they could still keep their old homes.

I found that poor people were appreciative of the government, they moved out of their 100-year old homes and moved into modern ones.

The life and culture of farmers in China is still very much old fashioned. People eat each other's produce freely. You can walk to your neighbour and say, "Hey can I have some of your radishes and carrots," and they never say no. The children hold their rice bowls and run around to their neighbours and see what dishes they have cooked and pick out a few pieces.

Moreover, human rights are defined by western nations. If China let say added, society has the right to live in a gunless society amid fear of violence, then isn't the US a huge violator of human rights?

Thanks for the large response.

First off, I don't hate China, there are a lot of Chinese ideas and values that are great, but I think we have to differentiate a bit.
Hate is a very strong word which doesn't make any sense when you try to analyze the good and bads of a society. I'm against nation-thinking and I want a globally just world, that's why I'm trying to analyze things as unbiased as I can and that's why it's very interesting for me as what you have to say on this topic. I'm just trying to gather new information to further my understanding on where the problems lie and how we can advance as humanity as a whole.

On a few topics you've touched:

India is barely a democracy the way it's run.
A large part of the population is still uneducated and the Caste-System is still very present to this day, so patriarchy is very strong. Women thus in many states still don't have the right to educate themselves and because of the tradition of dowry still to this day are murdered as they are born. The same goes for nationalism and patriotism allowing for a corrupt government which oppresses the press as well. So as you can see because of those old values still intact uprising in India is not an option.

I'm not an American, so yeah you're right the US is a huge violator of human rights, not only them but a lot of European modern societies too. Especially those profiting from third world country ressources and labor, like f.e. Switzerland. But there we go with politics not really being about people in power, but those with capital. This is more a problem of globalized companies profiting from the labour of those who have no power and capital. But here's where states could intervene, pass laws to make those company abide by rules that would lead to more people being able to finance their existence and a more sustainable environment (And I know China is working hard on the environment part, more so than other industrialized countries like Brazil and India, who are just catching up economically or the U.S. which energy-wise runs on an oldfashioned system and is way worse in this regards.). And you can't put that off with the comment that "Oh there will always be poor people in a society, so it's alright", you know that if you have a sense of empathy.
China as well isn't doing anything to change this. Yes, it may seem that loans may be rising, but the NBS doesn't portray the numbers correctly. Because Non-Privatized Companies aren't included in the statistics, as well as self-employed people. Yes average wages have risen, but so has the inequality.

What I meant by autocratic is that the same families stay in power, it's like in the US where you don't truly have a free democracy, because it's the same oligarchs with capital that get elected every time.

As in every country there's good and bad, I can see to pros of Chinese society and I can see how hard it is with that many people to give everyone a just life. You still didn't answer a lot of my questions tho. I just want to know if you're thinking that everything is well in China or if your opinion is more diverse and you can see that there's also problems that need, and have the right, to be adressed. (Like in other countries as well)

• You agree with me that China is a capitalistic country which isn't run by it's people, therefore decisions are not made ina democratic way?
• You think that the social credit system is fair?
• What about oppressed minorities like the Uigurs I mentioned? Just because minorities are oppressed in other countries you can't say we should close our eyes on this. I take the Uigurs as an example because this discussion is a very recent topic.
• What about Hong Kongs autonomy and the way their representatives are elected? Since the Election Comitee is mainly dominated by Beijing, can you truly say that this is an independent region? Shouldn't they have the right to exit the "Two Country, One System" solution?

Thank you for your answers

Kind regards

Still waiting, I'm assuming it will take you some time to formulate the answers, since it's tedious to write such a long wall of text everytime and we all have other stuff to do, I can relate.
So don't worry. Just know I'd be interested.

@Willy105: Hilarious points.

You seem to be very confused with, “time.” Terrorist acts came first and after numerous acts of terror China began locking people up.

Again, you have a problem with “time,” regarding HK. The protesters broke the law first, the police reacted.

You seem to also believe if anyone’s world view is not the same as yours then they are being brainwashed.

Western nations dislike China because it isn’t white.

Other way around.

I've met my share of racists, but none so racists as the parents of the Chinese kids I grew up with. I know that's not true of all Chinese, but it's true of all the Chinese I've met that were older than 40.

@redrichard: Bizarre take. There’s plenty of non-white countries that “the west” likes.

Coincidentally those countries also don’t practice organ harvesting, genocide, and mass repression.

You don't lock up people for stuff other people did just because they look like them or share a religion. At least, places where one would want to live in shouldn't.

And the protesters didn't break the law, the law was changed so that their way of life became illegal. Very big difference.

It's not that anyone who doesn't have the same worldview is brainwashed. The specific arguments you are making in defense of China are signs of brainwashing.

In related news, China just revoked universities' rights to freedom of thought.

Do you believe that was a good decision by the Chinese government?

@Willy105: The western method to combat terrorism has been so effective hasn't it. "Kill everyone!"

Since 1 July 1997, there are laws preventing illegal assembly. If you want to protest, sure apply for a time and a place. If you exceed the area or the time, it is illegal. Obviously you did not know this!