What is Pelosi thinking?

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#1 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

Seriously, Nancy Pelosi, after the first victorious month of the term, has been an absolutely horrendous speaker and the last three weeks, she has made some serious blunders that question her ability to lead. First is her appalling surrender to Mitch McConnell on the border funding bill, which now grants no oversight in how the $4.6 billion in spent, which enrages the progressive caucus and the Hispanic caucus. After a week of news coverage (and a congressional visit to the camp) vindicating the views of the progressives, Pelosi's surrender now looks worse. Then she has the gall to call out "The Squad" (AOC, Pressley, Omar, and Tlaib) for opposing that bill, and say "“have their public whatever and their Twitter world. But they didn’t have any following.", which may now have sparked a democratic civil war.

And I thought Biden was bad when it comes to eating his shoes.

Of course, AOC, who Pelosi badly keeps underestimating (or is jealous of), owned her hard for that comment, her staff eviscerates Pelosi, and Omar and Tlaib hit back along with other progressive lawmakers. And all this is completely unnecessary if Pelosi just kept her mouth shut. But instead, she goes against her job which is to keep the caucus united and now, may have fractured it (if her surrender already hasn't). Even centrists should view Pelosi's comments as detrimental and misguided.

But it goes to show that Pelosi can't lead, all her goal really is, is to get Democrats re-elected instead of doing right for the nation, which in the end doesn't get you re-elected. She has a play not to lose strategy that will end up fracturing the party. Pelosi has miscalculated on the Green New Deal, brushing it off disrespectfully, while it has popular support and backed by presidential candidates, including somewhat, Biden. She fails to defend Omar from Trump's nasty video taking her 9/11 comments out of context for two days and gets called out for it. She keeps resisting launching an impeachment inquiry, despite a growing number of Democrats (and an ex-Republican) backing it, even ones in swing districts, allowing Trump to run roughshod over them.

There is a reason why Pelosi has low approval ratings, because she is alienating her own party. And really, with all that she has done the last 6 months, I think she can get voted out of her liberal district if, with California's unique primary system, another Democrat gets primaried in. That would be something.

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#2 Posted by warmblur (2804 posts) -

Pelosi is the female version of Joe Biden aka corporate Democrat she just sits on her hands while Trump does what he wants that donor money must be amazing.

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#3 Edited by nintendoboy16 (36481 posts) -
@texasgoldrush said:

Seriously, Nancy Pelosi, after the first victorious month of the term, has been an absolutely horrendous speaker and the last three weeks, she has made some serious blunders that question her ability to lead. First is her appalling surrender to Mitch McConnell on the border funding bill, which now grants no oversight in how the $4.6 billion in spent, which enrages the progressive caucus and the Hispanic caucus. After a week of news coverage (and a congressional visit to the camp) vindicating the views of the progressives, Pelosi's surrender now looks worse. Then she has the gall to call out "The Squad" (AOC, Pressley, Omar, and Tlaib) for opposing that bill, and say "“have their public whatever and their Twitter world. But they didn’t have any following.", which may now have sparked a democratic civil war.

And I thought Biden was bad when it comes to eating his shoes.

Of course, AOC, who Pelosi badly keeps underestimating (or is jealous of), owned her hard for that comment, her staff eviscerates Pelosi, and Omar and Tlaib hit back along with other progressive lawmakers. And all this is completely unnecessary if Pelosi just kept her mouth shut. But instead, she goes against her job which is to keep the caucus united and now, may have fractured it (if her surrender already hasn't). Even centrists should view Pelosi's comments as detrimental and misguided.

But it goes to show that Pelosi can't lead, all her goal really is, is to get Democrats re-elected instead of doing right for the nation, which in the end doesn't get you re-elected. She has a play not to lose strategy that will end up fracturing the party. Pelosi has miscalculated on the Green New Deal, brushing it off disrespectfully, while it has popular support and backed by presidential candidates, including somewhat, Biden. She fails to defend Omar from Trump's nasty video taking her 9/11 comments out of context for two days and gets called out for it. She keeps resisting launching an impeachment inquiry, despite a growing number of Democrats (and an ex-Republican) backing it, even ones in swing districts, allowing Trump to run roughshod over them.

There is a reason why Pelosi has low approval ratings, because she is alienating her own party. And really, with all that she has done the last 6 months, I think she can get voted out of her liberal district if, with California's unique primary system, another Democrat gets primaried in. That would be something.

If she launched an impeach inquiry, McConnell would've massacred it the moment it hits the Senate floor. No really, he's made that threat and McConnell has a history of making good on his threats. And that "ex-Republican" you mentioned? Yeah, he's a coward on it because he mentioned "High ranking" Republicans thanking him for impeachment support, but never dropped any names.

And the Democrats have had civil war for years. Even during Harry Reid's time (and people said he was better than Nancy, which is like saying it's better to get shot than to be stabbed).

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#4 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: Wrong. An impeachment inquiry is not the actual impeachment itself, its the start of the investigation. Its a process to bring about whether to impeach or not.

And no, it hasn't. Not until 2016. And not in an ideological divide like this.

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#5 Posted by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

Those four women are from districts that lean heavily left, Pelosi was right when she said a glass of water could win there if it had a D next to it. She’s actually old enough to remember how much damage going into an impeachment can do to the Democrats but people like AOC are only worried about satisfying the people in her district that feel like she can do no wrong when those people don’t represent the country as a whole.

The best thing the Democrats can do right now is push their case for making Trump a one term president because trying to do an impeachment inquiry is a waste of time at this point. If Mueller didn’t find it with an unlimited budget, it’s unlikely a Congressional inquiry will. Worst case scenario for the Democrats, it gets Trump sympathy. People are already looking at the law New York just passed that was intended to give up Trump’s state returns even though they claim it isn’t for him specifically.

But you know what, there are people on Twitter praising AOC for standing up to Pelosi that think she is so great that she should become the new Speaker if Democrats keep the House in 2020. That is honestly a joke that would just screw over the Democratic party if by some snowball’s chance in Hell it succeeded and Trump won reelection. If she became the new Speaker then that means if anything happens to Trump and Pence, she will get skipped on the line of succession because of her age and it goes right back to the Republicans.

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#6 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

So if a glass of water with a D next to it can win that district, why didn't Joe Crowley? Second, there is a reason why Justice Dems and other groups have been targeting centrist or corrupt Democrats in deep blue districts, because even though the party doesn't change, the philosophy out of that seat does. Its not just about flipping swing districts. The whole philosophy out of the NY14 seat flipped last year, from an establishment ass kisser to an insurgent ass kicker. Replace Henry Cuellar with Jessica Cisneros next year in TX28, which could actually happen, that would be an even bigger shift. Same party, different philosophy. Do not ever discredit this, and Pelosi is making the mistake doing so as well.

An how is Pelosi making the case to make Trump a one term president? She isn't, she is either surrendering (outside of January), antagonizing other members of her party, being passive, governing scared, and suppressing primary challengers with Cheri Bustos. Her actions demotivate the base of the party. Next, launching an impeachment inquiry can also help the Dems and hurt the GOP if they find cause to impeach. It works both ways. And its a risk not to inquiry about impeachment as Trump can think he can do what he wants and more subpoenas get ignored. An it would be much easier to get Trumps tax returns with an impeachment inquiry and Trump administration lawyers have argued that Trump doesn't have to give them up without this motion.

There are plenty of other great options other than AOC to be the speaker in the progressive caucus. But Pelosi actually can be vulnerable in her very liberal district which would be poetic justice for her glass of water comment.

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#7 Posted by Serraph105 (33972 posts) -

So what happened to our reply and quote buttons? Anyone?

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#8 Posted by watercrack445 (1731 posts) -

#SquadGoals

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#9 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

Wow, Pelosi is really acting like a hypocrite and a spoiled brat. Did she just seriously say to the caucus not to take their complains about other members public? Wow. What a hypocrite.

She is no longer fit to lead, she tries to impose a rule she doesn't follow herself. She complains about AOC's twitter followers when she has the 2nd most in the House. More hypocrisy.

You would think the spoiled brat to be the freshman congresswomen and the cool headed disciplined one to be the Speaker, but its been the other way around. AOC herself has for the most part, been disciplined and does her job effectively, while Pelosi gets basically jealous over AOC's tremendous outsider power. And until now, AOC has been holding back, and is even puzzled by Pelosi's bizarre attacks.

Its Pelosi, not AOC that is the one splitting the party.

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#10 Posted by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

Wow, Pelosi is really acting like a hypocrite and a spoiled brat. Did she just seriously say to the caucus not to take their complains about other members public? Wow. What a hypocrite.

She is no longer fit to lead, she tries to impose a rule she doesn't follow herself. She complains about AOC's twitter followers when she has the 2nd most in the House. More hypocrisy.

You would think the spoiled brat to be the freshman congresswomen and the cool headed disciplined one to be the Speaker, but its been the other way around. AOC herself has for the most part, been disciplined and does her job effectively, while Pelosi gets basically jealous over AOC's tremendous outsider power. And until now, AOC has been holding back, and is even puzzled by Pelosi's bizarre attacks.

Its Pelosi, not AOC that is the one splitting the party.

Pelosi knows what needs to happen if the Democrats want to have a chance to defeat Trump in 2020. AOC accusing the only Democrat currently sitting in the line of succession of being a racist over her criticizing her mistaking her Twitter following for experience is just making it that much more likely we're going to see eight years of Trump.

We shouldn't confuse Twitter followings with actual support, Trump is sitting at just under 62 million followers and even his most popular tweets rarely get more than 200,000 likes while celebrities with way fewer followers come close to a million likes. Not to mention there's no telling how many of her followers aren't even eligible to vote since you can't vote with a tweet.

AOC's views may be fine for many of her supporters in big cities as well as Hollywood, but Democrats still need the moderates as well as independents to beat Trump. You should consider avoiding being too starstruck with her to see that.

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#11 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: Its not about Twitter followings specifically, its about how AOC and other progressives use Twitter and social media in elections (and Trump as well). Pelosi's statement is entirely idiotic and ignorant of the fact that these platforms actually do have big impact on elections and the power of some of these congresswomen. An ignoring this could mean a wave of Dems getting primaried out of House seats.

Pelosi can now actually be defeated in her primary (or in California's weird case, the general). Really, she can. And she may have a tough opponent that can split the vote enough in the primary to challenge Pelosi head to head in the general. She is sitting in the most liberal district in the nation, a district which pretty much would love AOC and the squad and back the squad on the issues such as the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. So she is failing her own district when she attacks AOC and her policies.

And you do not have to be moderate Dem (or run as one) to beat Trump. And a moderate is no guarantee at all to beat Trump either. What the centrist establishment Dems still do not get is that Trump defeated a centrist, not a liberal, in 2016. Why? Because the base was ignored, working people were ignored, and the center didn't get that. So progressives didn't show to the polls, and working people flipped to Trump. In 2016, Clinton won the center and not much else. And to add, the center loves to bring up how moderates won back the House in 2018, but they conveniently ignore the huge losses moderates took in the Senate.

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#12 Edited by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: Its not about Twitter followings specifically, its about how AOC and other progressives use Twitter and social media in elections (and Trump as well). Pelosi's statement is entirely idiotic and ignorant of the fact that these platforms actually do have big impact on elections and the power of some of these congresswomen. An ignoring this could mean a wave of Dems getting primaried out of House seats.

Pelosi can now actually be defeated in her primary (or in California's weird case, the general). Really, she can. And she may have a tough opponent that can split the vote enough in the primary to challenge Pelosi head to head in the general. She is sitting in the most liberal district in the nation, a district which pretty much would love AOC and the squad and back the squad on the issues such as the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. So she is failing her own district when she attacks AOC and her policies.

And you do not have to be moderate Dem (or run as one) to beat Trump. And a moderate is no guarantee at all to beat Trump either. What the centrist establishment Dems still do not get is that Trump defeated a centrist, not a liberal, in 2016. Why? Because the base was ignored, working people were ignored, and the center didn't get that. So progressives didn't show to the polls, and working people flipped to Trump. In 2016, Clinton won the center and not much else. And to add, the center loves to bring up how moderates won back the House in 2018, but they conveniently ignore the huge losses moderates took in the Senate.

A far-left Democrat is extremely unlikely to beat Trump. Social media may be dominated by people that think that AOC will become the youngest president in history in 2025, but there are a lot of people that simply aren’t accounted for with social media. If social media was any indication, Hillary Clinton would have been an absolute blowout, and failing that Democrats would have taken back both the Senate and the House before impeaching and removing Trump.

You can say all day long that you hate compromise, but the independents and moderate Democrats are not prepared to dump their gasoline and diesel vehicles yet. They are not prepared to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make their homes green yet. They aren’t prepared to do a nationwide gun buyback yet. They aren’t prepared to write off half of the nation as racist bigots yet. They aren’t prepared to open our borders yet. They aren’t prepared to raise their tax dollars by hundreds of dollars a month to pay for the health care of illegal aliens yet. While social media algorithms may result in the following fact being suppressed, that doesn’t change the fact that there are plenty of people that think it is laughable we are complaining over maybe a few million dollars being spent over a pro-America parade when over ten times that amount has been spent on the Mueller investigation with the only complaint being that it hasn’t lead to Trump’s removal.

Social media may have plenty of people praising AOC and her ideas, and social media may have had a big hand in helping Trump getting elected as well. But don’t let social media fool you into thinking AOC is so popular that someone that shares the vast majority of her ideas could become president in 2020. White knighting for her when even Democrats that want Trump gone as much as you criticize her isn’t going to change that.

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#13 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: Wrong. It was Trump that was dominant on social media, not Clinton. Clinton used far more traditional methods and did it poorly. And in a shock to political observers, Trump's social media presence defeated Clinton's ground game in key areas. And once again, the centrist candidates are trying to use the same old dinosaur methods, and that is going to cost them. You also forget that the far right has a very strong social media presence, for example, the 10-15 Border patrol facebook group.

Once again Twitter is a powerful campaign tool as well as other forms of social media. AOC used it to run a very cheap campaign against Crowley who used expensive traditional methods with more money in the bank, and the more nimble AOC overwhelmed him. And that same system annihilated a powerful centrist group in the New York senate.

Next, the Green New Deal has popular support, so does Medicare For all, as long as private insurance still exists. Warren's immigration plan does not have open borders (did not read free healthcare for undocumented immigrants as well). Most support gun control and background checks. And really, Pelosi overall is very unpopular, who averages at 36% approval, so I guess her toothless dealings with the President aren't working out and her ignorance of the leftward shift of the Overton Window isn't helping either.

And centrist fear doesn't work either. Because end the end its all about whether you run a good campaign or not, not about ideology.

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#14 Posted by BaelNergal (570 posts) -

@texasgoldrush I wouldn't define "gaining attention by acting like a blue whale's scrotum on Twitter" as being "dominating in social media."

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#15 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

This has descended into a fight between the Congressional Black Caucus and the Justice Democrats.........wow. And its the former, not the latter, being unfair and ignorant.

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#16 Posted by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -
@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: Wrong. It was Trump that was dominant on social media, not Clinton. Clinton used far more traditional methods and did it poorly. And in a shock to political observers, Trump's social media presence defeated Clinton's ground game in key areas. And once again, the centrist candidates are trying to use the same old dinosaur methods, and that is going to cost them. You also forget that the far right has a very strong social media presence, for example, the 10-15 Border patrol facebook group.

Once again Twitter is a powerful campaign tool as well as other forms of social media. AOC used it to run a very cheap campaign against Crowley who used expensive traditional methods with more money in the bank, and the more nimble AOC overwhelmed him. And that same system annihilated a powerful centrist group in the New York senate.

Next, the Green New Deal has popular support, so does Medicare For all, as long as private insurance still exists. Warren's immigration plan does not have open borders (did not read free healthcare for undocumented immigrants as well). Most support gun control and background checks. And really, Pelosi overall is very unpopular, who averages at 36% approval, so I guess her toothless dealings with the President aren't working out and her ignorance of the leftward shift of the Overton Window isn't helping either.

And centrist fear doesn't work either. Because end the end its all about whether you run a good campaign or not, not about ideology.

You really need to look outside of liberal cities that are idolizing AOC because it’s going to take more than just them to win in 2020. Either you guys get together or we’re going to be seeing another meltdown here in November 2020.

You literally have people on the internet right now using Trump’s defense of Pelosi and him saying that she isn’t a racist as proof that she is. Undecided voters see that and think that the Democratic Party is nuts.

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#17 Posted by Sevenizz (4018 posts) -

The Democrats are imploding right in front of our eyes. And it’s so fun to watch!

Trump 2020...obviously.

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#18 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: I am.

Warren can win areas outside the cities and win back the Rust Belt, better than a centrist like Biden can.

And Trump is an idiot, AOC herself has said that Pelosi isn't racist.

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#19 Posted by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: I am.

Warren can win areas outside the cities and win back the Rust Belt, better than a centrist like Biden can.

And Trump is an idiot, AOC herself has said that Pelosi isn't racist.

Warren is for several things that moderates aren’t ready to embrace. Get out of your bubble of assuming everyone that isn’t a Trump supporter is going to think like you. Even some of your fellow liberal posters are calling out AOC at this point because she may end up helping Trump getting reelected with her attitude.

Also, you can call Trump an idiot for defending Pelosi, but he was not the first one to come to her defense. Several Democrats to include Kamala Harris and members of the Congressional Black Caucus came to her defense as well.

The people defending AOC and continuing to call Pelosi racist are people with similar views as you; it’s not Republicans that are saying that Trump defending Pelosi is proof Pelosi is a racist after all.

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#20 Posted by Master_Live (19661 posts) -

House Democratic Caucus rebukes Ocasio-Cortez's chief of staff

The House Democratic Caucus issued a rebuke of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s (D-N.Y.) chief of staff Friday evening amid a public spat between House leadership and a small group of progressive members.

The caucus hammered Saikat Chakrabarti for comments he made going after Rep. Sharice Davids (D-Kan.), who is Native American. Chakrabarti said in the quoted tweet that Davids had taken votes that “enable a racist system.”

Trump: Ocasio-Cortez being 'very disrespectful' to Pelosi

President Trump on Friday criticized Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) amid a dispute between the freshman congresswoman and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).

The president came to Pelosi's defense when he was asked about the simmering feud as he left the White House for fundraisers in Wisconsin and Ohio.

Trump smartly weighing in on Pelosi's side to try to drive a wedge.

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#21 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: And many in congress, such as Jayapal and Pocan have come to AOC's defense. Second, Kamala Harris, did not bash AOC either while defending Pelosi, but praised her. Next, AOC never said Pelosi was a racist and in fact said she wasn't, which is what Trump missed.

And the Congressional Black Caucus is picking a stupid fight with Justice Democrats, who blame them for targeting black members for primaries, and making Lacy Clay look a fool for accusing AOC of playing the race card when the CBC plays the race card on the Justice Dems.

And lastly, most of Warren's economic policies are based on pre-Reagan Republican ideas.

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#22 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

"justice democrats" wth is that?

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#23 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36481 posts) -
@Master_Live said:

House Democratic Caucus rebukes Ocasio-Cortez's chief of staff

The House Democratic Caucus issued a rebuke of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s (D-N.Y.) chief of staff Friday evening amid a public spat between House leadership and a small group of progressive members.

The caucus hammered Saikat Chakrabarti for comments he made going after Rep. Sharice Davids (D-Kan.), who is Native American. Chakrabarti said in the quoted tweet that Davids had taken votes that “enable a racist system.”

Trump: Ocasio-Cortez being 'very disrespectful' to Pelosi

President Trump on Friday criticized Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) amid a dispute between the freshman congresswoman and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).

The president came to Pelosi's defense when he was asked about the simmering feud as he left the White House for fundraisers in Wisconsin and Ohio.

Trump smartly weighing in on Pelosi's side to try to drive a wedge.

The only reason he's "siding" with Pelosi is because he knows the ever ongoing Democrat Civil War is a benefit to him, no matter which side you choose.

@burntbyhellfire said:

"justice democrats" wth is that?

Faction of the party founded by Cenk Ugyur of the Young Turks. I wish I was joking...

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#24 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166884 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

The Democrats are imploding right in front of our eyes. And it’s so fun to watch!

Trump 2020...obviously.

LOL I always love when trumpers comfort themselves with this. It's like they don't know what the majority of Americans think.

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#25 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@Sevenizz said:

The Democrats are imploding right in front of our eyes. And it’s so fun to watch!

Trump 2020...obviously.

LOL I always love when trumpers comfort themselves with this. It's like they don't know what the majority of Americans think.

youre about to lose another election and you want to tell us what the majority of americans think?.. or is it you just need to believe the majority is on your side for personal validation?.. i know people on the left cannot function without the backing of a mob

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#26 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166884 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@Sevenizz said:

The Democrats are imploding right in front of our eyes. And it’s so fun to watch!

Trump 2020...obviously.

LOL I always love when trumpers comfort themselves with this. It's like they don't know what the majority of Americans think.

youre about to lose another election and you want to tell us what the majority of americans think?.. or is it you just need to believe the majority is on your side for personal validation?.. i know people on the left cannot function without the backing of a mob

You're post is making major assumptions. You didn't win the popular vote last time and many non conservatives that may have voted for the GOP last time and are disgusted with the results will not this time

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#27 Posted by Sevenizz (4018 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: There’s also a lot of Democrats who are better off than they were under Obama who could vote for Trump. It works both ways.

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#28 Posted by watercrack445 (1731 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Sevenizz said:

The Democrats are imploding right in front of our eyes. And it’s so fun to watch!

Trump 2020...obviously.

LOL I always love when trumpers comfort themselves with this. It's like they don't know what the majority of Americans think.

That is all the time he always posts in every single thread.

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#29 Edited by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

@texasgoldrush: AOC’s exact words were that Pelosi was engaging in an “explicit singling out of new elected women of color.” Sorry, you’re not going to spin your way out of acknowledging that your idol was calling Pelosi racist, and AOC walking back a few days later could just as easily be because someone got to her and told her how damaging her grandstanding was in their effort to win 2020.

At best, you can argue that Trump’s defense of Pelosi was nothing more than him trying to keep it in the news for his political benefit by putting her between a rock and a hard place in acknowledging Trump’s defense of her. But ironically, a small handful of Democrats took the bait and are saying Pelosi is definitely racist now if a real racist (in their eyes) just came to her defense.

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#30 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: You can do that and not actually be racist however. You can be careless however, just how Harris suggested Biden was. And the fact of the matter is that the notion that Democratic leadership treats minorities as transactions is not new either.

Not really, and Trump exposed himself to counterattacks from Ilhan Omar in his disgusting comments about her.

@nintendoboy16:No its a progressive PAC not a faction. Cenk Ugyur no longer runs it, Alexandra Rojas does.

They put 4 people in congress and recruited 3 more, including the head of the Progressive Caucus. They should not be underestimated.

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#31 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166884 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

@LJS9502_basic: There’s also a lot of Democrats who are better off than they were under Obama who could vote for Trump. It works both ways.

Really? Because thanks to his policies there is going to be a tax increase in the future. Job growth has peaked. Much of his base is having financial difficulty due to his policies. Who are these Democrats better off? Because there hasn't been any major shift.

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#32 Edited by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: You can do that and not actually be racist however. You can be careless however, just how Harris suggested Biden was. And the fact of the matter is that the notion that Democratic leadership treats minorities as transactions is not new either.

Not really, and Trump exposed himself to counterattacks from Ilhan Omar in his disgusting comments about her.

Denial is an amazing thing. If a Republican was accused of the same thing you would immediately accuse them of racism, but a Democrat was just mistaken and didn’t mean to cause any harm. Even other posters that obviously hate Trump are telling you that what AOC is doing is damaging to the cause and I’m sure they may be coming close to calling you out for being a white knight for AOC.

If anything, Harris walking back her accusations against Biden could be due to the theory that he still has the biggest chance of winning the nomination. If he does win it, the last thing the DNC wants to deal with is Trump winning reelection because he played some soundbites in attack ads showing fellow Democrats calling him a racist while Trump talks about the shrinking unemployment rate among minorities.

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#33 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36481 posts) -
@texasgoldrush said:

@nintendoboy16:No its a progressive PAC not a faction. Cenk Ugyur no longer runs it, Alexandra Rojas does.

They put 4 people in congress and recruited 3 more, including the head of the Progressive Caucus. They should not be underestimated.

I don't care if he doesn't. Fact is, his influence still stinks up the Justice Dems.

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#34 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: But Republicans tend to be more racist than Democrats today, and that is a fact. And how is AOC hurting the Dem's chances? By establishment Dems ignoring what she has to say and pursue the same losing strategy that was run in 2016? And once again, how is Pelosi's interview with Dowd and the things she said there not a huge blunder? The center and the establishment doesn't like admitting their blunders. And the Congressional Black Caucus and Lacy Clay sniping at the Justice Dems for perceived prejudice in what seats the Justice Dems are challaenging in primaries reeks of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Funny, if the Justice Dems win every primary in districts where they endorsed as of now, Congress would GAIN a black member. And now Pressley, Omar, and others at the Netroots event tonight (of activists of color), fired back. And once again, the establishment continues the feud, in which AOC herself fired few shots. And really, the past week, she didn't fire many shots at Pelosi or her allies.

But Harris didn't (outside of supporting busing today), and she eventually forced an apology from him. Next, Biden's poll numbers have clearly eroded and another gaffe, he will lose. Biden simply put, is a bad candidate. Dukakis bad, Goldwater bad, though not quite McGovern bad. And bad candidates lose, no matter what ideology they are. Biden is also leading because Warren and Sanders are still taking from eachother. And Biden was already staggered by a hit from AOC on climate, which led to his sloppy embrace of the Green New Deal.

Do not underestimate Warren either. She has the best chance and ability at attacking Trump's "strength", the economy, and attacking the opponents strength is a tried and true election strategy. In discrediting the opponent on the economy, GWB did it effectively against Gore, and Trump did it somewhat effectively against Clinton. While Biden could do it, he lacks the complete skillset that Warren has, and she is more knowledgeable than he on economic matters.

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#35 Posted by ad1x2 (7652 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: But Republicans tend to be more racist than Democrats today, and that is a fact. And how is AOC hurting the Dem's chances? By establishment Dems ignoring what she has to say and pursue the same losing strategy that was run in 2016? And once again, how is Pelosi's interview with Dowd and the things she said there not a huge blunder? The center and the establishment doesn't like admitting their blunders. And the Congressional Black Caucus and Lacy Clay sniping at the Justice Dems for perceived prejudice in what seats the Justice Dems are challaenging in primaries reeks of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Funny, if the Justice Dems win every primary in districts where they endorsed as of now, Congress would GAIN a black member. And now Pressley, Omar, and others at the Netroots event tonight (of activists of color), fired back. And once again, the establishment continues the feud, in which AOC herself fired few shots. And really, the past week, she didn't fire many shots at Pelosi or her allies.

You want to know how AOC hurts the Dem’s chances? People like you have decided that you will vote for Trump’s opponent no matter who it is. People that are hardcore Republicans will most likely vote for Trump no matter what. The problem is that neither side is enough to win the election.

You need those independents and the more those Democrats like AOC and her friends try to pull the party too far to the left while insulting the other Democrats that have been doing this longer than her, the more likely those independents will either stay home in protest like many did in 2016 or they may even vote for Trump instead of the Democratic nominee.

You don’t have to agree with me, but agreement isn’t required for it to be true. Even a lot of Democrats that want Trump gone more than anything are afraid AOC and her antics could help reelect him.

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#36 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

@ad1x2 said:
@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: But Republicans tend to be more racist than Democrats today, and that is a fact. And how is AOC hurting the Dem's chances? By establishment Dems ignoring what she has to say and pursue the same losing strategy that was run in 2016? And once again, how is Pelosi's interview with Dowd and the things she said there not a huge blunder? The center and the establishment doesn't like admitting their blunders. And the Congressional Black Caucus and Lacy Clay sniping at the Justice Dems for perceived prejudice in what seats the Justice Dems are challaenging in primaries reeks of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Funny, if the Justice Dems win every primary in districts where they endorsed as of now, Congress would GAIN a black member. And now Pressley, Omar, and others at the Netroots event tonight (of activists of color), fired back. And once again, the establishment continues the feud, in which AOC herself fired few shots. And really, the past week, she didn't fire many shots at Pelosi or her allies.

You want to know how AOC hurts the Dem’s chances? People like you have decided that you will vote for Trump’s opponent no matter who it is. People that are hardcore Republicans will most likely vote for Trump no matter what. The problem is that neither side is enough to win the election.

You need those independents and the more those Democrats like AOC and her friends try to pull the party too far to the left while insulting the other Democrats that have been doing this longer than her, the more likely those independents will either stay home in protest like many did in 2016 or they may even vote for Trump instead of the Democratic nominee.

You don’t have to agree with me, but agreement isn’t required for it to be true. Even a lot of Democrats that want Trump gone more than anything are afraid AOC and her antics could help reelect him.

which is why every single democrat refused to vote for or against her green new deal (which one of her top staff members admits was about socialism, not the environment). she is making them look bad to anyone who isnt already hard left

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#37 Posted by Master_Live (19661 posts) -

Pelosi and Ocasio-Cortez clash drags on, threatening Democratic unity

Excerpts:

An internal battleamong House Democratstook on new life Thursday as lawmakers turned against each other over questions of race, with the latest flare-up ignited by controversial comments from Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her chief of staff.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her lieutenants tried to move on but Democrats from several different factions within the party dug in, refusing to set aside lingering tensions that first broke into the open two weeks ago during a massive blowup over a border funding package.

The harmony betweenthe two wings of the caucus is in jeopardy as moderates and progressives struggle for control of the agenda — a clash that Democratic leaders have sought to avoid since gaining the House majority — and threatens their chief priority: taking on President Donald Trump.

New fault lines developed Thursday from what wasinitially a generational spat between Pelosi and a group of younger progressive upstarts that flared up over the weekend. Some members of the Congressional Black Caucus criticized Ocasio-Cortez and one even accused her of "using the race card” forsuggesting this weekthat Pelosi was “singling out” women of color to criticize.

"What a weak argument," said Rep. Lacy Clay (D-Mo.), who is facing a primary backed by a group closely aligned with Ocasio-Cortez. "Because you can’t get your way, and because you are you getting pushed back, you resort to using the race card. Unbelievable.”

And her chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, has come under fire for a flurry of tweets criticizing Pelosi, endorsing primary challengers to Democratic incumbents and comparing moderate Democrats to pro-segregationist lawmakers from decades ago.

After weeks of squabbling, some Democrats are concerned that the rift could have lasting implications. The caucus is gearing up to navigate through three weeks of tricky issues, fromformerspecial counsel Robert Mueller’s testimony to new immigration legislation.

Asked about Ocasio-Cortez’s comments, Pelosi suggested the New York Democrat and other freshman progressive women in her so-called squad may be upset that the speaker chided members — and their staff — in a private caucus meeting Wednesday.

“They took offense because I addressed, at the request of my members, an offensive tweet that came out of one of the member’s offices that referenced our Blue Dogs and our New Dems essentially as segregationists,” Pelosi said, referencing a now-deleted tweet by Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff.

Congressional Progressive Caucus co-chair Rep. Pramila Jayapal said she plans to raise her concerns with Pelosi in an upcoming meeting about broader issues — specifically how singling out freshman women of color like Ocasio-Cortez works to “diminish progressive power” in the caucus.

“God, it totally resonates with me, absolutely,” Jayapal said when asked if she agreed with Ocasio-Cortez’s comments about being singled out as a woman of color. "We women of color have faced this for such a long time... We are in a body of mainly old white men. You don't get to be here without having dealt with that, most people."

Chakrabarti, meanwhile, was strongly criticized for his tweets, claiming that moderate Democrats were responsible for oppressing minorities.

“Instead of 'fiscally conservative but socially liberal,' let's call the New Democrats and Blue Dog Caucus the 'New Southern Democrats.' They certainly seem hell bent to do to black and brown people today what the old Southern Democrats did the 40s,” Chakrabarti wrote in the tweet.

Ocasio-Cortez declined to comment on her chief’s contentious tweets on the issue on Thursday, ignoring questions about whether she had plans to take any disciplinary action — as some other Democrats have called for.

Rep. Terri Sewell, a vice chair of the New Democrats, has reached out to Ocasio-Cortez several times to discuss Chakrabarti's controversial tweets but has not heard back, according to an account relayed by Rep. Derek Kilmer during a meeting in Pelosi's office on Wednesday.

Sewell, who is African American, represents Birmingham, Ala., a city with a lengthy and at times horrific civil rights legacy. On Thursday, she released a statement strongly criticizing the comparison of New Dems to pro-segregationists.

In an interview, she said, “I’m not going to talk about my own private talks with members. But it’s enough to say that I’ve issued my statement about the tweet that her chief of staff did. I was highly offended by that — I represent the Deep South.”

But Ocasio-Cortez disputed the account that she had ignored a phone call from Sewell: “I do know that she called me once and I returned her call. We missed each other right before I went to the border.”

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#38 Posted by Sevenizz (4018 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: Again, both sides have gained and lost supporters - probably equally. But currently the Democrats are the more unstable and divisive of the two. There’s no denying that.

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#39 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@ad1x2: Her "antics" also excite the progressive base, which had lower turnout in 2016, and turn out new voters. The big reason once again that Clinton lost is that progressives stayed home, especially younger ones and minorities. This allowed Trump to win in key states. Also, a more liberal candidate with a labor friendly policy can win back working class voters who rejected Clinton for Trump, which Warren fits the bill. Clinton's center-right economic policies help sink her in the Midwest compared to the more populist Trump.

Nevermind, the economy implodes, Trump is toast no matter who he is running against, and for a fact, we will have a slower economy next year. If Trump loses the economy, Game over.

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#40 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/frank-luntz-democrat-match-donald-trump-2020_n_5cdbfdafe4b0c39d2a142fab

This is a GOP Pollster.

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#41 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire: Almost all the Dems voted present including the sponsor of the Green New Deal in the Senate, at AOC's blessing, to prevent McConnell from dividing the caucus.

Before you run your mouth, learn the facts.

And the Green New Deal predates AOC's political career. She was just the one to introduce it to Congress.

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#42 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

they neither had the guts to advance it and admit to the country they supported that socialist mess as most americans, even many on their side do not want socialism, nor did they have the guys to vote no, and alienate the more radical factions of the left, as they need all the support they can in 2020, since buying votes and illegals probably wont be enough to win

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#43 Edited by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

Trumps comments may just stop the feud....completely disguising. Not only that, it may very well be one of the most racist tweets he has ever made.

AOC has now brilliantly turned his tweet back on him. The uncanny ability of AOC to lead her opponents to blunders continues. Hopefully, its less Dem opponents from now on.

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#44 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166884 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

@LJS9502_basic: Again, both sides have gained and lost supporters - probably equally. But currently the Democrats are the more unstable and divisive of the two. There’s no denying that.

Much like every primary election cycle ever. I hope you're not pretending the GOP was one united front in the primaries.

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#45 Posted by nintendoboy16 (36481 posts) -
@texasgoldrush said:

Trumps comments may just stop the feud....completely disguising. Not only that, it may very well be one of the most racist tweets he has ever made.

AOC has now brilliantly turned his tweet back on him. The uncanny ability of AOC to lead her opponents to blunders continues. Hopefully, its less Dem opponents from now on.

And... it hasn't.

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#46 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:
@texasgoldrush said:

Trumps comments may just stop the feud....completely disguising. Not only that, it may very well be one of the most racist tweets he has ever made.

AOC has now brilliantly turned his tweet back on him. The uncanny ability of AOC to lead her opponents to blunders continues. Hopefully, its less Dem opponents from now on.

And... it hasn't.

Right now, it has. Even centrists are defending the Squad.

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#47 Edited by KungfuKitten (26743 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: I am.

Warren can win areas outside the cities and win back the Rust Belt, better than a centrist like Biden can.

And Trump is an idiot, AOC herself has said that Pelosi isn't racist.

Wasn't that after AOC played the race card? So she is taking that back?

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#48 Posted by texasgoldrush (12909 posts) -

@KungfuKitten said:
@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: I am.

Warren can win areas outside the cities and win back the Rust Belt, better than a centrist like Biden can.

And Trump is an idiot, AOC herself has said that Pelosi isn't racist.

Wasn't that after AOC played the race card?

Or how about the reality card?

Once again, you do not have to be racist to be careless, and that is what AOC implied.

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#49 Edited by KungfuKitten (26743 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:
@KungfuKitten said:
@texasgoldrush said:

@ad1x2: I am.

Warren can win areas outside the cities and win back the Rust Belt, better than a centrist like Biden can.

And Trump is an idiot, AOC herself has said that Pelosi isn't racist.

Wasn't that after AOC played the race card?

Or how about the reality card?

Once again, you do not have to be racist to be careless, and that is what AOC implied.

Wait... she said you're singling us out because of our race and gender... right? Or did the article I read get it wrong? “But the persistent singling out….it got to a point where it was just outright disrespectful – the explicit singling out of newly elected women of colour.”

Because that's not implying that Pelosi was being careless. That's implying that Pelosi was being racist and sexist. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.

(Regardless of what was actually said, this whole media circus is starting to become unbearable. There is seemingly no outlet from the USA that I can still somewhat trust to be factual. Even from time to time. I don't remember previous USA elections to be this full of lies, but maybe it's because I'm following the 2020 elections more than previous ones.)

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#50 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

oh, its always been there.. the veils been pulled back and they're no longer trying to hide it, but the lies, deceit, and bias have always been a part of the mainstream media.. in large part the unmasking is due to the availability of the truth online.. they dont have the strangle hold on information like they once did