Trump/GOP Suggest Lifting Social Distancing Guidelines and Initiatives Early

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mattbbpl

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#1 mattbbpl  Online
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We've seen this vaguely bantered about for a few days with some suggesting that we should take a cost/benefit approach to how many lives we're willing to save in order to accept the drop in markets, but such discussions entered a new level yesterday as the president stated that he would take such measures to soothe the economy.

President Donald Trump on Monday said he planned to pull the U.S. economy out of its coronavirus-induced slumber in a matter of weeks, and refused to commit to following the advice of his handpicked health experts — many of whom have warned that it will be a matter of months before it will be safe to reopen the country again — when reassessing guidelines for social isolation.

“Our country wasn’t built to be shut down. This is not a country that was built for this,” Trump insisted to reporters during a White House press briefing with his coronavirus task force on Monday evening, predicting that “America will again and soon be open for business. Very soon. A lot sooner than three or four months that somebody was suggesting.”

The president complained that he didn’t want to let the “cure” to the fast-spreading pandemic — social isolation that has prompted the shuttering of businesses across the country and cratered the economy — to be worse than the disease itself. He even claimed, without evidence, that the economic downturn caused by continuing the social distancing recommendation could result in more deaths “than anything we are talking about with respect to the virus.”

Trump very strongly hinted that he planned to ease federal guidance on social distancing at the end of his administration’s “15 Days to Slow the Spread” initiative, which ends next Monday, despite an expected explosion of reported cases as tests for coronavirus become more widely available.

Governor Dan Patrick, in an interview I'm sure most of your have seen by now, echoed these sentiments expressing that the elderly would be willing to die to save the economy.

Since this idea is now a real possibility at either the national or state level, what are your thoughts on it? Should we allow the disease to spread normally in order to boost the economy?

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AfterShafter

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#2  Edited By AfterShafter
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Sounds ghoulish. After a certain point though, it's also reality. We hypothetically could tank economies, strip personal freedoms, and justify oppressive regimes easily on the "Not one life!" sentiment but it's not how we actually act. We're all sitting here typing away on computers made in virtual slave labour conditions because when it comes down to it, we care more about our pleasure than our stated virtue. As a culture, we obviously put personal pleasure, notions of freedom and autonomy, and economic stability ahead of life and safety in countless ways. That ugly mindset which, obviously, is one of the governing ones in our culture, is going to surface sooner or later, even in a crisis like this.

I don't think we're really there yet but to pretend like our culture isn't willing to sacrifice life for economic success, hedonism, and notions of personal freedom is empty signaling of unearned virtue. This is coming, and the groundwork for it coming is central to our cultural values in the West today.

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N64DD

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#3 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

Ill remain indoors for awhile.

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Kadin_Kai

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#4 Kadin_Kai
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@mattbbpl: No No No! This is absolute fxxking stupidity! It is not about the economy, Trump is only concerned with his re-electability. He is willing to sacrifice lives for the dwindling chance he can get re-elected.

Just think about this for a second.

Most countries around the world are in lockdown. The US's largest trading partners are in lockdown, so by returning to work, the US will find it very hard to trade with other nations who are largely closed for business.

Therefore telling people to return to work will bring about a significantly smaller amount of economic activity compared to normal.

Trump's arch-rival, China is re-opening so if the US does return to work, most of its international trade will be with China, a country the US largely views as an enemy.

Ending the shutdown even before the US infection had reached its peak is killing Americans. There are an increasing number of reports that younger people are enduring the harsher symptoms of COVID-19, it's not just the over 60s. Didn't he swear to protect Americans?

Going back to work will simply spread the disease in a massive-unimaginable way, the US figures are already the third-highest in the world after Italy and I can see it surpassing the Italian figures within 10 days.

Trump is an absolute fxxking irresponsible idiot, he has already risked the lives of Americans already by repeatedly downplaying the virus, by a lack of action despite it was raging in China, then in Japan and South Korea and then in Europe, he practically did nothing to protect you.

Don't allow him to risk your life, the life of your friends and family because he has this stupid logic that the economy will pick up 'skyrocket', it won't not for a long time, not for any other country.

There will be hardship ahead, there will be bankruptcies, there will be major problems, but you'll be alive and the economy will eventually pick up, just like every other country.

American GO HOME AND STAY HOME.

Look at it this way, if you do go back to work, get infected and die, well you might not be able to play The Last of Us 2, Cyberpunk 2077, play on the PS5/Xbox Series X and have all those childish arguments on systems war.

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deactivated-6068afec1b77d

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#5 deactivated-6068afec1b77d
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Wow, that is insanity.

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horgen

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#6 horgen  Moderator
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@watercrack445 said:

Wow, that is insanity.

No. That's today's Republicans.

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mattbbpl

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#7 mattbbpl  Online
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Trump said today that he wants everything opened up by Easter (April 12th).

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MirkoS77

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#8  Edited By MirkoS77  Online
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Every day Trump's watching the main bragging point of his presidency and greatest strength to his re-election bid getting flushed down the toilet. It's no surprise he's willing to toss prudence to the wind and if it costs a few lives, well, so does the flu and car crashes, right? Considering his narcissicism and vying for power, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I don't want the economy to tank, but it would be interesting to see him build "the greatest economy in history!!", a proclomation not made from when it was already very tenable, but one actually from dire straights. Let's see what he can actually do. Perhaps deep down he understands that if left long enough, the economy would get to such a point that he'd be exposed as the fraud he really is in being able to do jack shit about it. I mean, who does he have to blame for this? Obama? Good luck with that one. Democrats? Not going to hold outside of his brainwashed sycophantic cult.

EDIT: And despite his Lordship "hereby ordering" the reopening of the US due to his "great and unmatched wisdom!", he doesn't have the authority to order anything. Governors (who actually care for the well being of their constituents) will act as they deem fit, and the damage to the economy has already happened and will continue to reverberate for a good while.

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mattbbpl

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#9 mattbbpl  Online
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@AfterShafter: "After a certain point though, it's also reality. "

It doesn't have to be. We got ourselves into a hard spot by not testing early, but we can dig ourselves out of that hole. We have to continue ramping up testing to the point where we can test and track.

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Serraph105

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#10 Serraph105
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@mattbbpl said:

Trump said today that he wants everything opened up by Easter (April 12th).

Trump should show solidarity by holding a campaign rally that day. He can pack in a thousand people, get close to a ton of them, shake hands with as many as possible, and **** it, start licking them as well.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Meanwhile you can use that link to watch as the number of confirmed cases go up and up and up. The deaths as well.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#11 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
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Lockdowns should be 2weeks incremental. Nothing wrong with setting the 12th for a re-evaluation. He should not guarantee that on the 12 things go back to normal, because he's going to probably be called liar/optimistic once again. I mean his track record since the beginning of all this is hilarious. He should be more careful on how he phrases things, or just remove himself from front stage and let the experts handle it.

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LJS9502_basic

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#12 LJS9502_basic  Online
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Wall Street is not the economy. Most people are working from home if their business is shut down. No need to rush it. I don't give a crap if trump's stock take a dive.

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deactivated-5e9044657a310

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#13 deactivated-5e9044657a310
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3% of the population is sacrifice republicans are willing to make

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Zaryia

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#14 Zaryia  Online
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@n64dd said:

Ill remain indoors for awhile.

I'm glad you changed your incorrect position on the virus from a few weeks back.

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comp_atkins

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#15 comp_atkins
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@MirkoS77 said:

Every day Trump's watching the main bragging point of his presidency and greatest strength to his re-election bid getting flushed down the toilet. It's no surprise he's willing to toss prudence to the wind and if it costs a few lives, well, so does the flu and car crashes, right? Considering his narcissicism and vying for power, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I don't want the economy to tank, but it would be interesting to see him build "the greatest economy in history!!", a proclomation not made from when it was already very tenable, but one actually from dire straights. Let's see what he can actually do. Perhaps deep down he understands that if left long enough, the economy would get to such a point that he'd be exposed as the fraud he really is in being able to do jack shit about it. I mean, who does he have to blame for this? Obama? Good luck with that one. Democrats? Not going to hold outside of his brainwashed sycophantic cult.

EDIT: And despite his Lordship "hereby ordering" the reopening of the US due to his "great and unmatched wisdom!", he doesn't have the authority to order anything. Governors (who actually care for the well being of their constituents) will act as they deem fit, and the damage to the economy has already happened and will continue to reverberate for a good while.

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Jacanuk

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#16 Jacanuk
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@mattbbpl said:

We've seen this vaguely bantered about for a few days with some suggesting that we should take a cost/benefit approach to how many lives we're willing to save in order to accept the drop in markets, but such discussions entered a new level yesterday as the president stated that he would take such measures to soothe the economy.

President Donald Trump on Monday said he planned to pull the U.S. economy out of its coronavirus-induced slumber in a matter of weeks, and refused to commit to following the advice of his handpicked health experts — many of whom have warned that it will be a matter of months before it will be safe to reopen the country again — when reassessing guidelines for social isolation.

“Our country wasn’t built to be shut down. This is not a country that was built for this,” Trump insisted to reporters during a White House press briefing with his coronavirus task force on Monday evening, predicting that “America will again and soon be open for business. Very soon. A lot sooner than three or four months that somebody was suggesting.”

The president complained that he didn’t want to let the “cure” to the fast-spreading pandemic — social isolation that has prompted the shuttering of businesses across the country and cratered the economy — to be worse than the disease itself. He even claimed, without evidence, that the economic downturn caused by continuing the social distancing recommendation could result in more deaths “than anything we are talking about with respect to the virus.”

Trump very strongly hinted that he planned to ease federal guidance on social distancing at the end of his administration’s “15 Days to Slow the Spread” initiative, which ends next Monday, despite an expected explosion of reported cases as tests for coronavirus become more widely available.

Governor Dan Patrick, in an interview I'm sure most of your have seen by now, echoed these sentiments expressing that the elderly would be willing to die to save the economy.

Since this idea is now a real possibility at either the national or state level, what are your thoughts on it? Should we allow the disease to spread normally in order to boost the economy?

Well, let's see but considering the medical experts, predictions that it will never go away, are you suggesting that we close down the country until ??? a cure? and please consider the fact that Icelandic doctors have found up to 40 different strains.

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mattbbpl

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#17 mattbbpl  Online
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@Jacanuk: Please see my earlier post about testing and tracking.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#18 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
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@Jacanuk: The correct answer should be "we'll see when the time comes". China seems to be holding fine for now and we'll know more about spreading and immunisation in a few weeks. Maybe we'll have to fase exposition.

Jumping straight ahead for eugenics is a bit too much, imo.

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#19 Jacanuk
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@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: Please see my earlier post about testing and tracking.

But that is clearly not enough, so what else ? when would you stop isolation? and social distancing?

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#20 mattbbpl  Online
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@Jacanuk: "But that is clearly not enough"

How is it clear that it's not enough?

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#21 Jacanuk
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@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: "But that is clearly not enough"

How is it clear that it's not enough?

There are about 40 strains and you can´t test 300 million people.

And some can according to WHO be carries without showing symptoms

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#22 comp_atkins
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@phbz said:

@Jacanuk: The correct answer should be "we'll see when the time comes". China seems to be holding fine for now and we'll know more about spreading and immunisation in a few weeks. Maybe we'll have to fase exposition.

Jumping straight ahead for eugenics is a bit too much, imo.

this is clearly the reasonable thing to do. fact is right now we don't really know how long we'll need to keep people distanced to slow the spread.

for one thing, the longer people keep ignoring the requests to stay the **** home the longer it will last....

after some period of time, let the expert re-evaluate. i think it's foolish to set unrealistic expectations however. follow what the data says.

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#23 mattbbpl  Online
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@Jacanuk: We're concerned about testing the one strain. We don't have to test everyone, that's what the tracking is for.

Other countries such as South Korea are doing this effectively.

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#24 Jacanuk
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@phbz said:

@Jacanuk: The correct answer should be "we'll see when the time comes". China seems to be holding fine for now and we'll know more about spreading and immunisation in a few weeks. Maybe we'll have to fase exposition.

Jumping straight ahead for eugenics is a bit too much, imo.

You are right that China seems to be holding and have past the top, but how much can we believe those numbers?

But if America do the same harsh methods as China? (welding people inside and letting them die) that would be fine for you?

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DaVillain

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#25 DaVillain  Moderator
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@Jacanuk: I work in the Hospital and according to health officials. We're hoping the Pandemic ends around June 2020, at least. I'm not Trump fan, but even I can agree we need to turn this around and fast.

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#26 Jacanuk
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@davillain- said:

@Jacanuk: I work in the Hospital and according to health officials. We're hoping the Pandemic ends around June 2020, at least. I'm not Trump fan, but even I can agree we need to turn this around and fast.

I hope you are right, but you can't help to be worried about the actual who data about 40 strains

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horgen

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#27 horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk: Some sources would be nice....

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#28  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@horgen said:

@Jacanuk: Some sources would be nice....

For?

And also at least consider this.

"If the coronavirus lockdown leads to a fall in GDP of more than 6.4 per cent more years of life will be lost due to recession than will be gained through beating the virus, a study suggests"

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horgen

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#29 horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk: Well there you got a prime example

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#30 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
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@Jacanuk: Of course I don't think people should be welded inside their houses. 😄

But I'm 100% in favour of detentions and forced isolation if someone refuses to comply.

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#31 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: "But that is clearly not enough"

How is it clear that it's not enough?

There are about 40 strains and you can´t test 300 million people.

And some can according to WHO be carries without showing symptoms

Where are you getting this information?

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#32 Jacanuk
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: "But that is clearly not enough"

How is it clear that it's not enough?

There are about 40 strains and you can´t test 300 million people.

And some can according to WHO be carries without showing symptoms

Where are you getting this information?

Scientists in Iceland claim they have found 40 mutations of the coronavirus, which has left the world gripped in fear.

The mutations were discovered by analysing swabs of COVID-19 patients in Iceland, where almost 600 cases have been reported so far.

Using genetic sequencing, the researchers identified how many mutations the virus had accumulated.

These genetic variants can act as the fingerprints of the virus to indicate where in the world it originated.

The Icelandic scientists were able to trace the coronavirus back to three European countries – Austria, Italy – the epicentre of the outbreak – and England.

Seven infected people all went to the same, undisclosed football match in England, the team claim.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8146565/Scientists-Iceland-claim-FORTY-mutations-coronavirus.html

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#33 mattbbpl  Online
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The Daily Mail? No wonder you didn't cite your source.

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#34 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@Jacanuk: That's not a good source. It's like using the Enquirer.

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#35 Jacanuk
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@mattbbpl said:

The Daily Mail? No wonder you didn't cite your source.

Well, not my original source but only one I could find.

And yes I know it´s not the best.

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#36 mattbbpl  Online
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@Jacanuk: You need to find the original source. The Daily Mail is a tabloid

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#37 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: You need to find the original source. The Daily Mail is a tabloid

Maybe it was the original source...……...

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#38 SUD123456
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@Jacanuk said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: "But that is clearly not enough"

How is it clear that it's not enough?

There are about 40 strains and you can´t test 300 million people.

And some can according to WHO be carries without showing symptoms

Where are you getting this information?

Scientists in Iceland claim they have found 40 mutations of the coronavirus, which has left the world gripped in fear.

The mutations were discovered by analysing swabs of COVID-19 patients in Iceland, where almost 600 cases have been reported so far.

Using genetic sequencing, the researchers identified how many mutations the virus had accumulated.

These genetic variants can act as the fingerprints of the virus to indicate where in the world it originated.

The Icelandic scientists were able to trace the coronavirus back to three European countries – Austria, Italy – the epicentre of the outbreak – and England.

Seven infected people all went to the same, undisclosed football match in England, the team claim.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8146565/Scientists-Iceland-claim-FORTY-mutations-coronavirus.html

Virus mutations are normal.

Regardless, IBM, Amazon, MS etc. are ultimately going to solve the problem so it just a matter of time and how many will die before they solve it.

Also, it would be possible to test everyone and often but we have to change our mental model about how to do so. Starting with the fact that you don't need to see a Dr. to do a swab. We will see self testing at home approved within weeks.

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#39 mattbbpl  Online
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@LJS9502_basic: smh, if that's the case.

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#40  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: You need to find the original source. The Daily Mail is a tabloid

https://www.ruv.is/frett/two-types-of-covid-19-in-one-individual

That is a bit more legit, The NYpost is just referencing some Icelandic paper I don´t understand.

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#41 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: You need to find the original source. The Daily Mail is a tabloid

That is a bit more legit, The NYpost is just referencing some Icelandic paper I don´t understand.

Icelandic specific. Helpful hint...…...don't visit Iceland right now.

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#42  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Jacanuk: You need to find the original source. The Daily Mail is a tabloid

That is a bit more legit, The NYpost is just referencing some Icelandic paper I don´t understand.

Icelandic specific. Helpful hint...…...don't visit Iceland right now.

It said "7 confirmed from UK"

Also, remember how big a hub Iceland is for trans-Atlantic flights

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#43 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@Jacanuk said:

It said "7 confirmed from UK"

Also, remember how big a hub Iceland is for trans-Atlantic flights

And you live in the UK? Look I can only tell you what I read in your link. It said it was Icelandic specific. So you shouldn't spread rumors.

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#44  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Jacanuk said:

It said "7 confirmed from UK"

Also, remember how big a hub Iceland is for trans-Atlantic flights

And you live in the UK? Look I can only tell you what I read in your link. It said it was Icelandic specific. So you shouldn't spread rumors.

I pointed out 2 facts that indicate that it could have spread to any number of countries of travellers who go through Iceland on their way to North America or to Europe.

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#45  Edited By deactivated-5e9044657a310
Member since 2005 • 8136 Posts

It's not surprising that a political group that would sacrifice the lives of children for gun sales, would sacrifice the lives of the elderly for the stock sales

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#46 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 175999 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

I pointed out 2 facts that indicate that it could have spread to any number of countries of travellers who go through Iceland on their way to North America or to Europe.

I think more studies need to be done and not to believe all the rumors. Until we get a scientific consensus I don't think one guys opinion counts for much. Also your link said it was Iceland specific not me.

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#47 mattbbpl  Online
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#48 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@mattbbpl: trump only cares about his reelection.....and the economy was really all he had to brag about. He's too stupid and shortsighted to see that successfully steering us through this pandemic would be a positive for him...…..he'd rather see people die so he can rehab the economy. Well that and he and his cronies make money on the stock market.

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#49 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 940 Posts

@Jacanuk: You shut down the country until the US medical system can effectively handle the workload. It's a virus, there won't be a "cure."

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#50 mattbbpl  Online
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@LJS9502_basic: What about the rest of the GOP? Why is their less pushback for this approach?