Monuments continue to be vandalized: Oldest Christopher Columbus Monument Destroyed

Social Justice Warriors sure are great and progressive. Almost as progressive as ISIS when they destroy monuments.

Think this will give us racial and economic justice? Nah... think it'll just make people hate your movement even more.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/21/christopher-columbus-monument-in-baltimore-smashed/

The left has gone off the rails. God help us all.

I actually don't mind this.

Columbus and his history has been heavily revised and we falsely (and for propaganda reasons) present him as some great founder of America or the Western world. His name deserves to be in the history books, but we shouldn't have statues of him for a multitude of reasons. I think their reasoning is actually on par here.

If they start tearing down the founding fathers that will be a different story.

Or the Berlin wall...... Saddam's statue....general mao..... the list goes on and on and there does seem to be a theme here yes? The people in the right are tearing these down, those building them are always in the wrong. And for arguments sake, we've havent forgotten Mao, the Berlin wall or Saddam.

Columbus was a pretty awful guy and the reasons for remembering him are fairly dubious. Are you upset because of the vandalism or that it is Columbus? Would imply that you're against any standing statue being torn down, vandalized, or destroyed?

You don't mind people being uncivilized? Just petition it to have it moved into a museum. Not that hard. Why are people so ashamed of their history? You must hate reality that much.

The vandalism. I'm a first generation American. I hold very little history to the US.

Just put it in a museum where I can listen to a recording about him along with his monument.

So basically this is his idea of human evolution.

If you believe that all vandalism is bad, then that's fine. Your logic would be consistent I'd expect you to be against vandalism of any statue (Hitler, Stalin, the Kim family, etc).

Yes. Symbolic things don't offend me.

I like to see the ugliness of history. In a sense, this is history happening right now. Another ugly time. They are now what some would call as ruins.

@uninspiredcup said:

So basically this is his idea of human evolution.

Burning books and giving rise to the ancient city of Thule.

Youre missing the symbolism of it and why it matters to people.

We could have brought in construction crews to tear down the Berlin wall or Saddams statue, (Saddams statue could have gone to a museum right?) but they didnt and they didnt becasue its important that the people do this. Its them taking back power from lies or oppression.

Because some people are sane and recognize that we need to learn from history and not coddle, lie, protect lies/bigots/the powerful. If you're so interested in accurate history and what to be ashamed of or not, than maybe you should look into what we do know CC did versus what we were all taught in school for the past century and then maybe consider why a statue of him is a statue of a lie and that its not a good thing to perpetuate that lie.

False equivalence. These monuments weren't a problem until the media made them into a problem.

Then people were like "oh, now I have something to be offended about and I can now LARP as a revolutionist."

Granted you'd like to see the ugliness of history in a museum like you've stated, but what happens when this isn't the case and said history is being paraded in public as a sign of veneration?

I'd only caution that it's far different when these figures stand as oppressive symbols to people in today's society, especially in situations when the legal avenues of removal are not providing effective. Would you similarly call for a city of Jews to be OK with a statue of Hitler in their public square when all attempts to legally remove the statue have stalled? Context with solidarity often turns these situations into shades of grey when your idyllic version of historic preservation doesn't seem available.

@Gaming-Planet said:

@uninspiredcup said:

So basically this is his idea of human evolution.

Burning books and giving rise to the ancient city of Thule.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster"

- extremely pretentious quote

Ive been alive for over 35 years and i cannot remember a single point when confederate BS and Columbus BS was not a problem. And i know before i was born there was the civil rights that had its up's and down's for about 30 years, and these things were issues then as well.... so... yah.

That aside, you proclaiming "false equivalency" (which its not, its perfectly in line) and than ignoring why these things are happening is you ignoring the problem and reality.

The responses in this thread makes me sad for my country.

Man this guy knows everything.

@Gaming-Planet: I saw some guy got arrested by a park ranger for attempting to blow up a statue... News said he could face 40 years in prison. I don't think people understand the consequences for destroying govt property.

The right destroyed the track.

You're Canadian.

Columbus really was a terrible person, and what he is most known for he didn't even do! The US should have more statues of Leif Erikson if we want to pay tribute to those who founded America.

@n64dd said:

Not even remotely the same, but nice try. Maybe Young Conservatives will post better memes next time.

Removing the history of a society, will eventually ruin completely society. As the shown history in large degree works as the social glue, remove it, and different population groups will likely splinter.

I have no real love for any statues or monuments from the US, frankly the US history does not really matter a lot to me, given that I am not a US citizen.

But I do know that trying to whitewash or even remove history, which this sure seems a step towards only leads to history repeating itself. If said society even survives it.

I find it rather odd, that people complain about how x statue offends someone, let me let you in on a little secret. Most people who had statues raised in their name did great things or was a symbol of something, this means that most people who has a statue have done horrible things to someone. Most great deeds had an opponent group that lost.

Though time most heroes will indeed be seen as villains. I can hardly remember a statue I've seen, of someone who never wronged a group of people..

So should we just erase the past of our society?

As stated, I do not know more about Columbus then I was taught briefly back in public school, long ago. But this seems like a series of really bad ideas, What if the majority of the local population likes said statue? You are simply going to enforce your will upon them? With what right do anyone have to dictate the will of the local majority?

No this is more of the symptoms that the US has become very sick. That the extreme sides have come to dictate the discourse and actions.

I have visited concentration camps, statues of Stalin, and Nazi bunkers, all left intact in order to make people remember history. There are reasons for them. I doubt Columbus was a good person, after all he likely did some "great" things, and thus did a lot of harm.

I am sorry but this stinks of people thinking they have the "right" not to be offended. Frankly most people does not ever have such a luxury. And to veil this under "class struggle" is pretty freaking wrong.

So no Thanksgiving this year? My daughter goes to Robert E. Lee elementary, which apparently is bad now... Christopher Columbus is bad now too? We should just call out everything we think is bad now(even if it is or isn't depending on who you ask) and if we don't like it, tear it down! I'm being sarcastic of course. I hope these people get jail time. Three sports teams in Tampa just paid to remove a statue and relocate it... Classy act and the right way to do it, legally.

Start another thread citing inforwars, I'm sure that'll cheer you up.

And the left goes even further into the batshit crazy rabbit hole, why am I not surprised?

I dont agree with the methods but I agree with the outcome.

The further the left go off the rails the better it is.

normal people will see how sick the far-left is and oppose it.

This is limited to the online world (for the most part), but it seems like the people most concerned with removing statues because it will "erase" history have an incredibly limited understanding of that same history. Weird.

i would agree with this. if it of historical significance, keep it in a museum. hell, auction it off to a private collector if someone is willing to pay for it.

if you want it removed though, go through proper legal channels. you might not get what you want immediately though. don't just vandalize like an asshole.

@Maddie_Larkin: You know removing a statue doesn't erase history. Such histrionics.

The people who defend these monuments are the same people that revise history to their liking.

Spongebob had the right idea. lol

@foxhound_fox said:

@n64dd said:

You're Canadian.

A perfectly valid response.

Is no one in media or a politician willing to point this out?

I totally agree. If the American revolutionaries want to have their taxes lowered, they should have petitioned the king and went through the proper legal channels. Obviously King George would have listened.

Angela Rye from CNN has called for Washington and Jefferson monuments to be removed saw this title while skimming through youtube recommendations.

The Berlin Wall was mentioned and I wonder how many realize parts of it still exist and why it still exists.

Entirely irrelevant to the point made.

Since you missed it, ill repeat it. This is an event the people need to take part in doing because its symbolic of them taking power back, removing power, removing corruption, etc.

@Gaming-Planet:

For the record though, Columbus was an asshole who deserves no sympathy. So...what?

You brought up the Wall being torn down. I'm not sorry you don't like how/why parts remain.

no offense but this is a stupid comparison.

The wall is still up for historical purposes and is a legitimate artifact of the cold war. Mass-produced statues that are essentially worthless and only put up to glorify slavery and intimidate black people isn't even remotely the same. Maybe you'd have a point if people in Leipzig and Dresden were erecting statues to Honecker.

Context and nuance is key.

I don't like the vandalism of monuments of people who accomplished great things. Columbus deserves recognition, even if he wasn't a good person. Robert E. Lee never really accomplished anything, and a lot of the confederate monuments were erected during the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s. These monuments are really just monuments to racism. There is no reason to maintain them.

Columbus, the Spaniards, and early colonists contributed to more deaths then the Nazi Holocaust. I'm starting to think that the social conservatives value their nostalgia more than their supposedly superior "morals". Or maybe morality only applies when the target is Christian. Not sure here.

@LJS9502_basic: You do know the proverb "out of sight out of mind" I trust?

In fact what other reason is there for tearing down statues and monuments down in not for that exact reason? It is not like there are any legit reason for it in any way shape or form.

At this point you're intentionally ignoring the point.

While you might feel these monuments are worthless, I assure you many do not subscribe to your interpretation. Those who feel intimidated (I'm guessing you do too) over a monument commemorating a person/event have other issues needing addressing, IMO. You do know not every commemoration was done with malice and ill will, right? Context and nuance? If you understood what those words meant we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Edit: How do you feel about United States coinage honoring the losers of the civil war? Should we have to destroy those as well? How about stamps?

These memorials/statues, stamps, coins, etc.., have historical purposes too.

Okay, two can play at that game: while others might feel the the monuments aren't worthless, I assure you many do not subscribe to that interpretation.

You already lost if you have to pull the "it's subjective!" crap. Great way to show your "argument" (that's putting it lightly) is such a piece of crap you can't even properly defend it lol you're a joke.