Maduro opponent Juan Guaidó claims Venezuela presidency. West recognizes him

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Zaryia

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#51  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@vl4d_l3nin said:
@ronvalencia said:

US Democratic Socialists has big government(1) approach which is not Australian/Scandinavian style universal health care approach.

https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

Welfare service delivery should be the smallest government overhead for maximum service efficiency.

Notice Scandinavian and CANZUK administrative efficiency rankings.

Reference

1. https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/federal-jobs-guarantee-democrats/

DSA's big government approach.

Not to mention all the SOE's in those countries operate off of the profit motive. Something the DSA wants to abolish.

It's all futile trying to get through to them, dude. Socialism is by far the most pervasive ideology ever. Religion wishes it could be the opiate that is socialism.

Not to interrupt the subjective discussion you two are having over that blog he linked in response to me,

But Political scientists agree, DS policies closer resemble those in Canada, US, and EU rather than full blown socialism like Venezuela and that is just a fact. Mind you I am not a fan of Socialism and I'm not too keen on Democratic Socialism. I'm just fact checking, that's all. I'm sorry if you disagree with said facts.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/oct/24/future45/democrat-not-socialism-tax-increase-open-borders/

"Moving to socialism’

Republicans have used the socialist label to attack Democrats over policies for decades. It has become a common, but still false, motif during the 2018 midterms.

Running for U.S. Senate, Florida Gov. Rick Scott called Democratic incumbent, Bill Nelson, a socialist: We rated that Pants on Fire. We rated as False a claim from Republican Ron DeSantis that Andrew Gillum has a "far left socialist platform" akin to Venezuela. The claim that U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio is fond of communism also rated False.

The narrowest definition of socialism is where the state owns all the means of production, said Eduardo Gamarra, a political science professor at Florida International University. That’s not what any Democrat is running on.

When Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez use the term, they are referring to expanding the social programs already available, along with potentially higher tax rates to pay for them.

That resonates with the systems in place in Canada or Europe; not Venezuela or Cuba.

Even the programs that may be labeled as socialist carry broad support, like Social Security, "which has secured bipartisan support for over 70 years," Gamarra said"

I get FOX news spinning, but reality steps in,

If you were to summarize Bernie Sanders' campaign for president, you might say that he wanted to make the United States more like Denmark. He constantly referenced that particular Nordic country, and Scandinavia in general, as a political lodestar. More recently, he rolled out a new Medicare-for-all proposal — a maximalist, extremely generous proposal to provide all Americans with health care.

Despite Sanders' self-identification as a "democratic socialist," all this is classic social democracy — a political tradition with a long and deep history in Europe, but not much in the United States. But over the past few years, Sanders has moved squarely to the front rank of American politics — and, it seems, mostly because of his political ideas.

The most successful social democracies are the Nordic countries, which built up the world's most generous welfare states during the mid-20th century. Immediately after the Second World War, most of these countries were quite poor and so did not have the huge industrial proletariat that is the traditional foundation of left-wing politics. Therefore, the social democrats relied on an alliance between workers and farmers, which gave them enough of a political base to make their parties by far the most dominant in Scandinavia's parliaments for decades. Effectively, the Nordics became developed, rich countries while simultaneously building out a big welfare state, instead of the revolutionary process envisioned by Marx.

There appears to be an attempt at disingenuous conflation by the right, clearly for 2020, to answer this valid question,

@tjandmia said:

I don't understand the conservative fascination with Venezuela.

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#52  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@tjandmia said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@tjandmia:

Noam Chomsky claimed Chavez made a better world, while shaking the mans hand.

Sean Penn met with him, with Danny Glover. They went on talk shows praising the man.

Oliver Stone made a stupid movie celebrating him.

Micheal Moore said he was "on a quest to eliminate poverty" in one of his stupid movies.

LOTS of people were talking about what great things Chavez was doing for his country

It really shows you clearly weren't paying attention prior to 2015, when everything went to shit in that country, and his grand vision was exposed for the fraud that it has always been.

Why don't you explain socialism's failure. Instead of pointing to white capitalist countries as an example of socialism, explain how one of the most oil rich countries in the world has 90% of its citizens living in extreme poverty.

"Destitute" my ass.

Complete red herring. You suck at arguing. lol None of this has anything to do with my question. Why is every single comparison the right makes on something to which it is opposed always an example of some third world dictatorship that has no equivalency in the first world? Not one first world country that progressives want to emulate has any equivalency to Venezuela. Why not cite Japan, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Australia, Finland, New Zealand, etc? Oh, that's right, because you can't.

What about even Israel??? Healthcare as a fundamental right! ha ha.

Because he knows the ideas being put forth by popular Democrats closer resembles those bolded countries, according to political science and factual policy - rather than classic socialism seen in Venezuela.