Civil War participation trophies get torn down; losing team cries.

“The removal of these statues sends a clear and unequivocal message to the people of New Orleans and the nation: New Orleans celebrates our diversity, inclusion and tolerance,” Landrieu said in a statement early this morning. “Relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. This is not about politics, blame or retaliation. This is not a naïve quest to solve all our problems at once. This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly — choose a better future. We can remember these divisive chapters in our history in a museum or other facility where they can be put in context — and that’s where these statues belong.”

http://www.bestofneworleans.com/thelatest/archives/2017/04/24/new-orleans-removes-first-of-four-confederate-era-monuments-announces-funding-to-take-down-the-rest

Of course, the terrorist right got away with a car bombing while the mainstream corporate media turned a blind eye.

If your heritage included buying and selling humans maybe you shouldn't be celebrating it.

But teh Muslim kawntrees dun diddit. Why do you hate freedom?

All i have to say is "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Sad to see how far some will take it.

I bet if Auschwitz was in the states if that would have been bulldozed over and replaced by a wallmart.

What a uniformed comment.

And remembering is not celebrating, it´s remembering the past and how bad it could get.

Or are you really suggesting the holocaust memorials are celebrating the "past"

False equivalence. For one thing, several Civil War battlefields are protected national parks. These are places that have context for everyone involved with the war rather than venerating one side of it. A Confederate memorial does NOT. It only has significance to one side of the conflict which also happened to be the side that lives on the wrong side of history.

There's even a website for that.

I know you think that the victory writes the history but one sides "memories" are still memories and those statues and monuments are just historic remembrances , nothing else.

And there is no wrong side of history, there is only the truth and tearing these down , is a bad attempt of rewriting history.

Why do you think the taliban and ISIS does the same thing? tear down historic monuments and funny enough, most alt-left is horrified by that.

Have you been to the south? They aren't just remembering, they're proud af. How many trucks with "The South shall rise again" do you need to see to realize they're proud of this shit.

Let's go back to your Nazi analogy there. Do you think the Germans should be proud of WW2? Should flying the Nazi Germany flag be considered remembering the past?

Well, I added a link to the reply, so I understand if you want to take what I said completely out of context. The qualifying difference here is that, while the Salafists actually do want to actively erase all religious history of the world before Muhammed, the National Parks system does in fact preserve plenty of historic sites from the Civil War.

https://www.nps.gov/cwindepth/cwparks.html

All that leaving Confederate memorials around does is signal to the regressivists that there was some type of moral underpinning to what had happened and signal to the minorities that there is living hostility in their cities and towns. The context of a Confederate memorial is all wrong. We have museums for that. We have parks for that. Nothing is being "erased" except the fragility of white nationalism.

And there are plenty of people going to Holocaust memorials and remembering the "wrong side"

We can´t control what people do at a historic monument or what some people think, so tearing it down is ludicrous and as i said, those who forget the past.

Also free speech is free speech, we can´t justify censorship in any form. So if you want to talk about Nazis, go to Ireland where they have marches and parades and historic celebrations , celebrating the irish who fought with the germans and celebrating the nazis.

You are talking about sites vs. monuments

Let me try another way. Let´s take the atomic bomb, there are many atomic bomb monuments scattered around the US, would you be fine with those being torn down because they represent something that literally killed thousands of japanese.

Or what about Custer and the indians ? or what about Alamo? should that be torn down to please some mexicans.

History is history and removing it is a sign of degeneration.

Monuments are stupid, and very rarely have any actual historic significance themselves. The Alamo is not a monument. It was an actual fortification and a battlefield. The Enola Gaye is in a museum. So, yes, there is something a little sick and perverse about enshrining the atom bomb when we clearly have very real and living pieces of that history to serve as a reminder and given context.

I wonder how long this thread will go until some moron claims the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

What a load of horse shit. These statues were created to venerate these people as heroes and white wash history, plus they're being moved to a museum and not 'bulldozed'. Talk about missing the point by a mile.

We can certainly remember the past but we should start by remembering these people for the assholes they really were, not glorifying a past built with slavery and racism.

"The confederacy was about state's rights."

"The north were aggressive."

"The South were fighting for freedom."

"Slaves were immigrants."

"The Irish were slaves too and had it worse!"

The only people who are intent on whitewashing and "forgetting" their history are those who celebrate the worst aspect of it while justifying the atrocities committed, celebrating the confederacy and justifying that it was all about state's rights, despite that the Southern states were only concerned about keeping slavery legal and keeping northern states from helping fleeing slaves.

And then there's more: It was about resisting northern aggression. It was fighting for freedom. It's when history textbooks say that the slaves were immigrants. It's when you have people posting memes about the Irish having it far worse, diminishing the effects of cattle slavery on African Americans during the dark times of American history.

Evidently, you don't know what that quote even means and to compare the Confederacy to Auschwitz is absurd, I question whether or not you were trying hard to be a devil's advocate.

You guys lost, you lost bad. You were traitors.

Celebrating that should be illegal, you're lucky it isn't.

It wasn't. It was about being civil.

Sure, and once you get down from your high horse.

Try to debate your points.

And my dear watson, you seem to have a strange understanding of that quote , but nice try with the insult.

How is it that you manage to be wrong about literally everything? The statues weren't bulldozed, they were relocated to a museum so that there historical context would be more easily understood.

By your logic taking down Nazi flags after the fall of Berlin would count as wiping away history. Maybe they should have kept the Jews locked up in Auschwitz in order to preserve it as it was, liberating them was clearly a front to history. Jesus Christ this is dumb.

Your comment shows why you should perhaps take a break and stay on SW.

Are we talking flags here? and did i comment on when they decided on taking down the confederate flag of government buildings? No? so at least try to keep it on topic. And while i get that the first one torn down, which was a tribute to white supremacy was horrible, i do not care that they are being cut up and "rebuilt" in some obscure museum, who will in a few months throw it out because that is now a problem.

But let´s try with your slow logic.

What about Custer? should he be removed from the places he is standing , since he did slaughter a hell of a lot of indians. Since im sure we can find some native americans who have are sad that the "white america" celebrates a butcher like that.

And what points have you made so far, other than compare the worst atrocity known to mankind vs a rebellion built on restricting freedom?

History isn't being forgotten. It's being distorted and whitewashed by people like you. You're the equivalent to those who go on to say that the Holocaust either never happened or was exaggerated.

+1 for topic title

if you want to remember it, put it in a museum, not in a town square.

There is no hope for whites in the US. Having personally dealt with them on numerous occasions, I can safely say that they are truly and inherently pathetic. They are essentially worthless and their existence rootless and meaningless, with no concrete values other than rabid consumerism. The scant history that they've managed to accumulate is swept aside in a heartbeat if it comes under any form of scrutiny.

This event is just one among many that proves just this.

So monuments celebrating the defense of slavery is a good thing?

Did you learn that in KKK class or you just got woke from your daily briefings from Brietbert?

Monuments to oppression =/= history.

Shit like that belongs to a museum and history books. But even then, the Civil War's history is being glossed over to make the Confederacy look favorable and slavery look trivial. So much for respect of history, eh?

buhahahaha

Did you post this while wearing your white sheet and hood?

@jointed: Racist much? Oh wait, I forgot, you can't be racist towards whites.

What American would want statues dedicated to traitors? Makes no sense.

Remember when the crybaby, snowflake liberals banned the confederate flag? Had the Dukes of Hazzard removed from tv? Yeah. They still cry. They act like life can't go on until the oppression is eliminated. It will always be there.

To get rid of these monuments is another step in which this country becomes something else. Something other than America.

And how am i distorting or whitewashing history?

Please do point out the comments where i did either of those things.

Then why are you defending the monuments? Would you find it appropriate if Germans defended monuments of Nazis in their homeland?

You compared getting rid of monuments celebrating slavery to the Holocaust. Maybe you're not distorting history directly, but you are indirectly allowing history to be distorted by defending such monuments and its vile supporters who continue to belittle slavery and the Confederacy itself.

Notice the emphasis on race and not the issue or history at hand? One step away from labeling people as race traitors.

Banned the confederate flag? As far as I know it's still perfectly legal for private citizens to fly it.

There's a big difference between "remembering" and what we see in many southern states. Germany remembers WW2 but is not stupid enough to hang nazi flags all over the place with pathetic excuses of "haritage", while many in the area also regularly use words like "kike" and coming up with gold metal mental gymnastic phrases like "There's a difference between a kike and a jew".

Don;t worry, American society will never fully recover from the actions of the south and we wont be forgetting those actions anytime soon.

Holocaust memorials/museums are small designated areas typically designed to convey loss of local people, or in general a simple historical reminder. This is not what we see in the south is it? We see the hanging of confederate battle flags all over the place with the excuse of "southern pride", we see streets and buildings including schools, libraries, public government buildings, named after confederate generals or individual battles won by the confederacy. We see the profiting and sales off confederate merchandise and its not "hey, remember how bad this was", its "duhhh southern pride!" or "the south will rise again!" (what the **** does that even mean? What exactly is one saying here? Because the only time they fell from any kind of power was when they had slaves.). We see it in commercials and billboards, Jon Stewart said it best: "Its wallpaper". Its not a miner reminder of the past (that we will never forget anyway), its the promotion of ideals that are as anti-American and anti-constitution as it gets.

While "celebratory" might not be the correct term for it, its damn sure not equivalent to a memorial.

I live in FL btw, and i see this shit every single day and have to listen to these people promote it, every, single, day..... dont make some innocent excuse for what is very clearly happening.

You mean when private companies who on their own decided to stop selling confederate merchandise? Or when TV land decided to stop showing Dukes on their own?

Or maybe when there was pressure for state, tax payer buildings, to remove possibly the least American, most anti-constitution flag that has ever existed?

Yahhhhh... It seems to me that in a nation attempting to promote equality that its a constant battle to address issues of inequality and is something we constantly need to be moving forward on...... do you know how absurd you sound when you attempt to make this sound like a bad thing?

You mean the non-existent act of forcefully removing a symbol of a group of people who told America's constitution and founding principals to go **** itself and disliked them so much that they attempted to seceded is uhhh.... something other than American? Huh... you know, as i said in a previous post, you dont get more anti-American and anti-Constitution than the confederate flag. ISIS flags are more American than the confederate flag.

Personally I'm disappointed there wasn't anything about Marxists in there.

QFT, this is worse than people celebrating the holocaust.

This is for those who continue to defend the Confederacy or even suggest that those memorials are the equivalent of Holocaust memorials.

First, the civil war was about slavery. Hell, PragerU released a video of Westpoint's Colonel Seidule explaining the cause of the civil war using historical information and text. The Confederacy was all about the defense of slavery. Here's the video:

Now, maybe you already knew this but opposed the monuments being removed because it's like "removing Holocaust memorials," right? No one is trying to "forget" the history of the confederacy. The issues lies in that these monuments celebrate the worst aspects of our history. No one is censoring historical textbooks and saying that the confederacy doesn't exist or that they didn't fight for slavery. The Confederacy should be kept in history textbooks and museums as a reminder of America's dark chapter when slavery was permissible and that men have fought to preserve a horrifying institution.

However, you do have history being distorted to favor the Confederacy and belittle slavery as if it was an insignificant chapter in our country's history. But where's the outrage from conservatives and people who like to quote Bernard Shaw? We get it, both sides were hypocritical, just as in WWII and every other conflict since the dawn of time to today, but even then you have to look at the whole picture to determine that while the northern states had racist elements, they opposed the very concept of chattel slavery and that the Lincoln Administration wanted to give freed slaves citizenship and compensation for the horrors they suffered where as the Confederate States would rather keep them as slaves and continue their oppression. You're outing of hypocrisies doesn't make you open-minded.

The monuments of Confederate generals and soldiers celebrate human slavery. The holocaust memorials mourn the lives lost. Keep the Confederacy in textbooks and museums and keep it historically accurate. The Germans continue to teach about WWII and the Holocaust, yet they never have celebrated Nazism in any way, nor do they have monuments celebrating Nazism. There are graves of those who fought and died though. There are monuments but to those who suffered at the hand of the Nazi regime.

Defending the monuments doesn't mean you defend history. It means you defend the celebration of a rebellion who fought to preserve slavery.

@kod: Wow that is some thick shit right there. I'll let you live in your liberal delusions. Anyone who says the ISIS flag is more American than the Confederate, will win every argument. Win by delusion.

There is nothing American about a group of people who seceded and were traitors all because they wanted to keep other human beings in bondage.

@perfect_blue: For one they had American blood. They were Americans. They chose not to be anymore. Please know the Civil War was more about money and other issues and not only slavery.

The confederates were traitors and anti american. We should remember their folly but not celebrate it. Slavery wasn't the only reason for the Civil War, yes but you're just pants on head dumb if you think it wasn't a big part of it.

The Confederacy was founded because of slavery and fear that Abe Lincoln would take away their slaves and prevent the expansion of slavery into the western territories. It's all here in Alexander Stephens's famous Cornerstone Speech:

Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

It couldn't be more in your face. Was there more facets to it? Yeah, sure, but slavery was the main driving factor in the entire conflict.

But but but that was only the vice president's words /s

Apparently you simply don't understand what the confederacy did.

As for ISIS and the confederacy.... both hated western values. Both killed Americans. Both wanted no part of being in America. Both justified through religious bigotry. And both had slaves... .they seem pretty on par with one another. Now if you care to actually rebut these facts, go for it. But i really dont care what you think about "liberal delusions" or anything of that nature.

Ah yes, and you claim someone else is living in delusion while you do these mental gymnastics to say stupid shit like that. Yah, okay, it was about money... money from what? How was the money being affected?

Ive heard all the alternative justifications for the confederacy and they are all simply byproducts or affects of slavery. "Money" Why would the money decrease? Lack of slaves. "Economy" Why would the economy decrease? Lack of slaves. And then there are the flat out racist excuses like "mixing racing" and nonsense like that.

Good, this kind of stuff belongs only in a museum, not front and center celebrated on display in the city falsely representing the America today. It will still be remembered, but it will be remembered for what it is - history.

daaaaamn. Never saw that before.

You are confusing some things here, You keep talking about individual thoughts about a certain object/subject. I do not care about what some individuals mean or think about these monuments.

What i do care about is the core principle of removing history either by removing/rewriting books or by destroying/removing/moving monuments from a place where this contributes to understanding who and why these people did something, just because it suits the current political climate and because some redneck hillbilly decided to go and shoot up a church.

That is what people seem to miss here, not that i am surprised, liberals tend to be apologists and think that by removing something it also removes the thing from existence, which is funny because what they are doing is simple censorship and as we know censorship never works. Just look at when Luther King took his movement to the north and said time and time again that the racisme he met there was by far equal or even much worse than anything in the south. The difference was that the North at the same time refused to see it.

Holocaust area´s are not small confined areas, go to Auschwitz, go to the holocaust remembrance memorial in Berlin or any other of the countless huge massive areas designated to this. So no it´s simple or hidden away, it´s right in your face.

Also remember we live in a free world, living in a free world does not mean you have the right not to be offended , it means you have every right to when you do feel offended to say you are offended, but that does not imply the offensive object should be removed, so if you in Florida see thing that offends you, Say so and be glad you the right but do not expect people to remove it.

And don´t worry this wave of liberalism and snowflakes will die away , maybe not in the next decade but it will die like the hippies before it. The good thing we have is that young people tend to get older and some more wise , but Trump winning was a sign that this wave with BLM and all the other snowflakes is on it´s way down.