Citizenship question not to be included with the 2020 census (For now)

  • 99 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for n64dd
#51 Posted by N64DD (11925 posts) -

@joebones5000: You were dead set on Hillary crushing Trump past election....she lost and you disappeared for months...

Don’t repeat history.

Avatar image for jeezers
#52 Posted by jeezers (3039 posts) -

@joebones5000: all we can do is wait and see, but I doubt the dems will win Pennsylvania. Not with thier current platform

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#53 Posted by Jacanuk (18616 posts) -
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

Democrats will loose with moderates and independents with their current strategy.

Dems had 10-12 million more votes in 2018.

Keep whining about voting when your party is the one who screws over the most voters by being the kings of gerrymandering and using out-dated rules designed for 1800s farmers.

Lets stop pretending the guy who thought up this citizenship question wasn't one of the biggest gerrymanderers in history.

Keep talking about those votes when you know the reason is two states where even moderate Republicans would rather see a Clinton again in the white house then Trump.

Avatar image for joebones5000
#54 Posted by joebones5000 (2405 posts) -

@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: all we can do is wait and see, but I doubt the dems will win Pennsylvania. Not with thier current platform

Oh, really. Trump barely wins PA the first time by less than 1%, PA has a popular Democratic governor, and Republicans got destroyed there in the mid terms, and you doubt Dems will win there? Hmm. Odd statement, but OK.

Avatar image for jeezers
#55 Posted by jeezers (3039 posts) -

@joebones5000 said:
@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: all we can do is wait and see, but I doubt the dems will win Pennsylvania. Not with thier current platform

Oh, really. Trump barely wins PA the first time by less than 1%, PA has a popular Democratic governor, and Republicans got destroyed there in the mid terms, and you doubt Dems will win there? Hmm. Odd statement, but OK.

He wasn't favored to win the first time either.. and that was when the media was saying Trump was going to start WW3 and destroy the economy, msm said Hillary had a 99% chance of winning. Could be Trump!!!

Loading Video...

Avatar image for zaryia
#56 Posted by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

Democrats will loose with moderates and independents with their current strategy.

Dems had 10-12 million more votes in 2018.

Keep whining about voting when your party is the one who screws over the most voters by being the kings of gerrymandering and using out-dated rules designed for 1800s farmers.

Lets stop pretending the guy who thought up this citizenship question wasn't one of the biggest gerrymanderers in history.

Keep talking about those votes

Well yeah, that is what we were talking about.

Avatar image for joebones5000
#57 Posted by joebones5000 (2405 posts) -

@jeezers said:
@joebones5000 said:
@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: all we can do is wait and see, but I doubt the dems will win Pennsylvania. Not with thier current platform

Oh, really. Trump barely wins PA the first time by less than 1%, PA has a popular Democratic governor, and Republicans got destroyed there in the mid terms, and you doubt Dems will win there? Hmm. Odd statement, but OK.

He wasn't favored to win the first time either.. and that was when the media was saying Trump was going to start WW3 and destroy the economy, msm said Hillary had a 99% chance of winning. Could be Trump!!!

Loading Video...

All the polls in PA were within the margin of error. I'm just not understanding how a rational person, knowing everything we know, could force themselves to believe that Trump has a chance in PA.

Avatar image for jeezers
#58 Posted by jeezers (3039 posts) -

@joebones5000: he did it before he can do it again, your the one assuming he has no chance and you don't even know who he will be running against yet lol

Avatar image for joebones5000
#59 Posted by joebones5000 (2405 posts) -

@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: he did it before he can do it again, your the one assuming he has no chance and you don't even know who he will be running against yet lol

I'm not assuming anything. I've taken note of what he did before and what has happened since. His chances look very bleak.

Avatar image for burntbyhellfire
#60 Posted by burntbyhellfire (268 posts) -

I'm quoting the Constitution. Not CNN.

The Constitution requires that the census taken every ten years must be a total “enumeration” and that has long been understood as counting everyone living in America at the time the census is performed – citizens and non-citizens, legal residents and immigrant residents living in the United States without legal permission.

yeah.. the constitution never said this.. you're a flat out liar.. read article 1, section 2 for yourself.. you're not quoting the constitution, youre quoting CNN, try watching credible news

Basically the party is dying, which is why they gerrymander so much and which is why they NEED this question to go through.

the only dying party is the one who has to rely on illegals to be counted in the census, and for their votes, who can only campaign on promising free crap.. the DNC cannot win without the support of foreigners meddling in our elections

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#61 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166636 posts) -

@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: all we can do is wait and see, but I doubt the dems will win Pennsylvania. Not with thier current platform

You do know Democrats win in PA right? Currently we have a Democratic governor. Also if the people in the cities would consistently vote the state would always be blue.

Avatar image for burntbyhellfire
#62 Posted by burntbyhellfire (268 posts) -

thats because the left has a nasty habbit of running cities into the ground, sending jobs off to other states or other regions, expanding poverty, then use the situation fabricated by their city leadership to buy their votes.. how are those amazon jobs coming in new york? cant have their constituents get a good job and earn a living, that wouldnt be good for business

Avatar image for zaryia
#63 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@burntbyhellfire said:

I'm quoting the Constitution. Not CNN.

The Constitution requires that the census taken every ten years must be a total “enumeration” and that has long been understood as counting everyone living in America at the time the census is performed – citizens and non-citizens, legal residents and immigrant residents living in the United States without legal permission.

yeah.. the constitution never said this.. you're a flat out liar.

Hush, I'm not quoting CNN.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/2020-census/about.html

The U.S. census counts every resident in the United States. It is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution and takes place every 10 years.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/does-the-census-actually-count-everyone-and-should-it

First, it has always been understood (though frequently debated all over again from time to time) that the census should not only count every citizen, but every resident – including non-citizens who live in the country, whether or not they entered legally, and, second, the count thus will include between 10 and 11 million undocumented immigrants now living in the United States, many of them living with uncertainty about their right to remain.

https://www.upcounsel.com/enumeration-clause

The United States Constitutionis an organic document that is always open to interpretation and change (via amendments), and it is interesting to consider some of the language that the framers chose to use. For example, regarding the census, “individuals” is used, not “residents” or “citizens.” This implies that each and every person living in the United States should be counted, regardless of their immigration or citizenship status.

https://www.theusconstitution.org/think_tank/cornerstone-democracy-census-clause-constitutional-obligation-count-persons/

The Census is a cornerstone of our democracy. The federal government has a constitutional obligation to count all persons, both citizens and non-citizens alike, in the decennial census.

The current consensus on this matter is clear. Which is why people (dying GOP) want it changed. What you're doing is giving your opinion. The Census has to accurately count EVERY RESIDENT as it stands. Citizen or non citizen. That's just how it is at the moment.

@burntbyhellfire said:

Basically the party is dying, which is why they gerrymander so much and which is why they NEED this question to go through.

the only dying party is the one who has to rely on illegals to be counted in the census, and for their votes, who can only campaign on promising free crap.. the DNC cannot win without the support of foreigners meddling in our elections

1. No, they are dying. Facts show this:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/06/14/trump-owns-a-shrinking-republican-party/

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/the-republican-party-has-an-older-voters-problem.html

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/397695-pollster-gop-base-is-shrinking

https://news.gallup.com/podcast/248960/gop-solidifying-support-among-shrinking-base.aspx

Which is why you guys have to gerrymander, use voter suppression, and add this question. Hofeller admitted to it bro. Why are you trying to fool me?

2. There is no evidence of wide-spread illegal voters for Democrats.

@burntbyhellfire said:who can only campaign on promising free crap..

1. Red States and Red Voters benefit most from federal funding/aid. By a lot. While giving very little back in comparison. This is an ironic post.

2. Dem policy polls higher than Republican policy. Dying party is dying.

Avatar image for jeezers
#64 Posted by jeezers (3039 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: all we can do is wait and see, but I doubt the dems will win Pennsylvania. Not with thier current platform

You do know Democrats win in PA right? Currently we have a Democratic governor. Also if the people in the cities would consistently vote the state would always be blue.

I'm aware lol but it flipped with trump vs Hillary, is it unheard of that PA votes trump again while the economy is doing well and we are in no major wars. I mean Trump was able to flip PA before and had literally no political experience. I don't know what the democrats are promising them in exchange for their vote, free health insurance for illegals?

Most of the time the incumbent has a greater chance than new blood, especially when things are going well. I could see PA going blue for a moderate dem like Biden (even then i think trump has a chance, nothing exciting about Biden), if its a warren, kamala, beto, booker, it will probably go trump too because those people are obviously pandering to extreme levels, they sound desperate.

Trump filled stadiums in PA

Avatar image for ad1x2
#65 Posted by ad1x2 (7581 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

The same people that are absolutely outraged over the fact that a few Russian trolls may have convinced a few swing state voters to vote for Trump because of it being foreign interference seem to have no problem with millions of illegal aliens who can’t legally vote filling out the Census, resulting in the mostly blue states they reside in getting more electoral votes and representatives in the House. I’m sure the second scenario is a lot more related to foreign interference than the first.

These are nice opinions, but you're going to have to get the constitution changed for them to matter. You're also going to have to get Trump and Co. to actually give a legitimate reason for the change, as CJ Roberts pointed out.

Census Bureau experts who had found that a citizenship question would compromise the census’ integrity—“arbitrary and capricious.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/statistics-expert-testifies-census-citizenship-question-would-harm-count/2018/11/05/ee0a489a-e144-11e8-b759-3d88a5ce9e19_story.html?utm_term=.a46bcaab6a3d

As far as I know, nothing in the Constitution prohibits the country from simply finding out how many foreign citizens we have within our borders. What kind of civilized country literally can’t take the steps to find out how many noncitizens they have without being accused of being racist?

Would I be wrong to say Democrats are fear-mongering when they imply to noncitizens that every single person that checks no on the Census will have ICE kicking down their door a few days after they submit the form?

Avatar image for zaryia
#66 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:

Would I be wrong to say Democrats are fear-mongering when they imply to noncitizens that every single person that checks no on the Census will have ICE kicking down their door a few days after they submit the form?

Census Experts, Hofeller(GOP), and Ross are the one saying that, not just Dems.

Census Bureau experts who had found that a citizenship question would compromise the census’ integrity—“arbitrary and capricious.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/statistics-expert-testifies-census-citizenship-question-would-harm-count/2018/11/05/ee0a489a-e144-11e8-b759-3d88a5ce9e19_story.html?utm_term=.a46bcaab6a3d

"Furthermore, the emails showed, Ross was warned about potential downsides of adding a new question — most notably, concerns that it would warp the census results by discouraging noncitizens from responding. But the question was added anyway."

If you add this question you will get an inaccurate measure of what the Constitution demands from a census.

The GOP is counting on that though. Just ask Hofeller, the gerrymandering god knew why he planned this question. They just want more seats, they do this at every turn they get.

Avatar image for burntbyhellfire
#67 Posted by burntbyhellfire (268 posts) -

i will actually quote the part of article 1, section 2 that discusses the census so people can read it for themselves, instead of reading op eds of some activist telling people what it says.. admit it, you want foreign influence in the US elections because its the only chance that dying party has left.. and that is exactly why the constitution also put enforcement of immigration under the jurisdiction of the federal government and not under that of the states, to prevent states from stuffing their borders with illegals to gain more representatives in the house

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

Avatar image for zaryia
#68 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@burntbyhellfire said:

instead of reading op eds of some activist telling people what it says

I linked the US CENSUS BUREAU LMAO!

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/2020-census/about.html

As mandated by the U.S. Constitution, our nation gets just one chance each decade to count its population. The U.S. census counts every resident in the United States. It is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution and takes place every 10 years

ROFL!

"The U.S. Constitution requires a census every 10 years of all persons living in the country for the purpose of apportioning seats in the U.S. House of Representatives (Article I, sec. 2, clause 3) among the states. The Constitution explicitly requires an “actual Enumeration” of “all persons,” imposing on the federal government the duty to count the “whole number of persons in each State.” Both Republican and Democratic administrations, through the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ), have confirmed unequivocally that the Constitution requires a count of all persons living in the United States on Census Day, regardless of citizenship status."

@burntbyhellfire :you want foreign influence in the US elections because its the only chance that dying party has left

Dying left?

  • https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/06/14/trump-owns-a-shrinking-republican-party/
  • http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/the-republican-party-has-an-older-voters-problem.html
  • https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/397695-pollster-gop-base-is-shrinking
  • https://news.gallup.com/podcast/248960/gop-solidifying-support-among-shrinking-base.aspx

Avatar image for Willy105
#69 Posted by Willy105 (24836 posts) -

@n64dd said:

Why are you guys against it?

The Census' purpose is to get an accurate representation of the United States. It requires as many people answering and participating as possible.

If there is a question that may cause people in the country to choose not to participate in the census (such as a question that asks them if they are a citizen, a charged question that brings fears of police officers getting into your home to take you out of the country for many), then you invalidate the Census' entire purpose. Less people will answer, and now your Census is less accurate, which leads to certain areas being with less political power because the Census says they have less people than they actually have.

It's one small thing that can ruin the entire thing.

Avatar image for jeezers
#70 Edited by jeezers (3039 posts) -

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats, if people dont want to give up that they have illegal status, and that lowers thier count, they get less political power as a state.

The thing you are accusing the right of doing is what the left is doing and I dont get how you cant see that.

You are boosting your states power by bringing in non citizens, which is crooked as hell. No wonder dems are calling for open borders.

The dems just want more seats and its very obvious.

Avatar image for zaryia
#71 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@jeezers said:

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats,

This is absolutely true.

The Dems want to keep their seats, the GOP wants to remove their seats and gain seats.

There is a catch though, the GOP is tampering with something while the Dems aren't. This question would result in an inaccurate count. Going against the wishes of the Constitution. The GOP are running for changes, and even the SCOTUS said no.

Just like Gerrymandering It's the GOP who is actually doing the cheating for the most part.

Avatar image for ad1x2
#72 Posted by ad1x2 (7581 posts) -

@jeezers said:

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats, if people dont want to give up that they have illegal status, and that lowers thier count, they get less political power as a state.

The thing you are accusing the right of doing is what the left is doing and I dont get how you cant see that.

You are boosting your states power by bringing in non citizens, which is crooked as hell. No wonder dems are calling for open borders.

The dems just want more seats and its very obvious.

Assuming it is just a yes or no question, answering no in itself won’t mean you are saying you are an illegal alien since that could mean anything between being here illegally to having a Green Card. Justin Bieber, who lives in Beverly Hills, would check the same no block that an illegal alien living a few miles away in Compton would. That doesn’t mean ICE will be any more or less likely to raid his million dollar Beverly Hills residence he shares with Hailey Baldwin over the Compton apartment of the illegal immigrant even if people like to say a no answer equals an ICE raid.

Avatar image for ad1x2
#73 Posted by ad1x2 (7581 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats,

This is absolutely true.

The Dems want to keep their seats, the GOP wants to remove their seats and gain seats.

There is a catch though, the GOP is tampering with something while the Dems aren't. This question would result in an inaccurate count. Going against the wishes of the Constitution. The GOP are running for changes, and even the SCOTUS said no.

Just like Gerrymandering It's the GOP who is actually doing the cheating for the most part.

So foreign interference via illegal aliens giving sanctuary states more seats in Congress is good, while foreign interference via Russian trolls on social media spreading “Killary” memes is bad?

FYI, I’m all for every single person filling it out without fear of retaliation for their answers. That doesn’t mean I totally buy the idea that Democrats aren’t intentionally trying to make immigrants (both legal and illegal) believe that a citizenship question will result in follow-up ICE raids on no answers.

Since there are millions of legal immigrants in the country that are of no risk of deportation (as long as they don’t commit a felony and revoke their immigration status), as long as they only ask yes or no with no further questioning about their status I don’t see the issue. Some experts may, but we have the right to disagree with them just like average Joes have the right to disagree with generals on foreign war policies.

Avatar image for zaryia
#74 Posted by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats,

This is absolutely true.

The Dems want to keep their seats, the GOP wants to remove their seats and gain seats.

There is a catch though, the GOP is tampering with something while the Dems aren't. This question would result in an inaccurate count. Going against the wishes of the Constitution. The GOP are running for changes, and even the SCOTUS said no.

Just like Gerrymandering It's the GOP who is actually doing the cheating for the most part.

So foreign interference via illegal aliens giving sanctuary states more seats in Congress is good, while foreign interference via Russian trolls on social media spreading “Killary” memes is bad?

FYI, I’m all for every single person filling it out without fear of retaliation for their answers. That doesn’t mean I totally buy the idea that Democrats aren’t intentionally trying to make immigrants (both legal and illegal) believe that a citizenship question will result in follow-up ICE raids on no answers.

Since there are millions of legal immigrants in the country that are of no risk of deportation (as long as they don’t commit a felony and revoke their immigration status), as long as they only ask yes or no with no further questioning about their status I don’t see the issue. Some experts may, but we have the right to disagree with them just like average Joes have the right to disagree with generals on foreign war policies.

Those illegals still use the roads and utilities. Getting an inaccurate count for funding is a bad thing.

This still goes back to the constitution wanting a full and accurate count of all living residents regardless of status.

Avatar image for mattbbpl
#75 Posted by mattbbpl (17246 posts) -

@zaryia: why do you think they care about the Constitution!

Avatar image for sonicare
#76 Posted by sonicare (56775 posts) -

Can tourists fill out the census as well? We get lots of them in my state.

Avatar image for ad1x2
#77 Posted by ad1x2 (7581 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats,

This is absolutely true.

The Dems want to keep their seats, the GOP wants to remove their seats and gain seats.

There is a catch though, the GOP is tampering with something while the Dems aren't. This question would result in an inaccurate count. Going against the wishes of the Constitution. The GOP are running for changes, and even the SCOTUS said no.

Just like Gerrymandering It's the GOP who is actually doing the cheating for the most part.

So foreign interference via illegal aliens giving sanctuary states more seats in Congress is good, while foreign interference via Russian trolls on social media spreading “Killary” memes is bad?

FYI, I’m all for every single person filling it out without fear of retaliation for their answers. That doesn’t mean I totally buy the idea that Democrats aren’t intentionally trying to make immigrants (both legal and illegal) believe that a citizenship question will result in follow-up ICE raids on no answers.

Since there are millions of legal immigrants in the country that are of no risk of deportation (as long as they don’t commit a felony and revoke their immigration status), as long as they only ask yes or no with no further questioning about their status I don’t see the issue. Some experts may, but we have the right to disagree with them just like average Joes have the right to disagree with generals on foreign war policies.

Those illegals still use the roads and utilities. Getting an inaccurate count for funding is a bad thing.

This still goes back to the constitution wanting a full and accurate count of all living residents regardless of status.

But the roads and utilities aren’t the main reason why people in those blue states want them counted. The main reason they want them counted is so those states they are in can continue to enjoy those extra House seats and electoral votes. The amount of homeless citizens (to include veterans) spread all over the place in California tells us that.

At the end of the day, let them be counted. I just fail to see the reason why we can’t ask whether or not they are citizens, as long as we do not use the Census to aid deportation proceedings in any way. It wouldn’t hurt to get a more accurate count of our immigration population.

The Constitution may demand an accurate count of living residents, that doesn’t mean we can’t ask whether or not they are citizens. Not all noncitizens are here illegally and Democrats that like to pander to certain groups like to omit that little fact so it appears Trump is out to get all immigrants that aren’t white like his wife.

Avatar image for zaryia
#78 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@ad1x2 said:

At the end of the day, let them be counted.

Well yeah, because that is what the constitution mandates.

@ad1x2 said:The main reason they want them counted is so those states they are in can continue to enjoy those extra House seats and electoral votes

And the main reason the GOP might not want them counted is so they can gain more seats. Only the thing is the GOP side of this argument is against the constitution and they'd have to cheat to win. Like how they gerrymander the most.

@ad1x2 said:

I just fail to see the reason why we can’t ask whether or not they are citizens

Because it results in a less accurate census. As noted by Census Experts, Ross, and Hofeller. I mean this is the entire reason they want it done. They are counting on it, no pun intended.

By the way it also can effects legals. IE: A legal Hispanic family housing an illegal grandmother.

Avatar image for burntbyhellfire
#79 Posted by burntbyhellfire (268 posts) -

sad to see how many people who consider themselves americans that are willing to let foreigners influence our elections so that they may gain political power.. if its not illegals with the census, its british intelligence agents writing fake dossiers so traitors can use it for a witchhunt.. not surprising given how much foreign money flows through the DNC after being laundered via donations to the clinton foundation, or donated directly as "payment" for a 15 minute speech.. in short, the left and people who support them are traitors

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#80 Posted by Jacanuk (18616 posts) -
@zaryia said:

Those illegals still use the roads and utilities. Getting an inaccurate count for funding is a bad thing.

This still goes back to the constitution wanting a full and accurate count of all living residents regardless of status.

Holy cow you are trying to make up a spin here.

You know as well as anyone the reason why Democrats want this question of the census is because of the census count towards representation in the EC and in Congress.

So don´t try the BS with it being about funding.

And as to the legal argument you are trying to make with it being about the constitution. The laws in this country specify legal citizens as someone who has the legal right and those are the only ones we need to count.

Otherwise, by your own logic, the census should also count Tourists, student-visa and anyone temporarily on our soil.

Avatar image for horgen
#81 Posted by Horgen (120645 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

I just fail to see the reason why we can’t ask whether or not they are citizens

Because it results in a less accurate census. As noted by Census Experts, Ross, and Hofeller. I mean this is the entire reason they want it done. They are counting on it, no pun intended.

By the way it also can effects legals. IE: A legal Hispanic family housing an illegal grandmother.

You have to be a citizen anyway to vote, don't you?

Avatar image for ad1x2
#82 Posted by ad1x2 (7581 posts) -

@horgen said:
@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

I just fail to see the reason why we can’t ask whether or not they are citizens

Because it results in a less accurate census. As noted by Census Experts, Ross, and Hofeller. I mean this is the entire reason they want it done. They are counting on it, no pun intended.

By the way it also can effects legals. IE: A legal Hispanic family housing an illegal grandmother.

You have to be a citizen anyway to vote, don't you?

Yes, but you don't have to be a citizen to fill ou the Census and the more people fill it out in a state, the more representatives that state will be allocated in the House of Representatives. It also results in more votes in the Electoral College since that is decided by the amount of representaives each state has plus two extra votes for the state's two senators.

Avatar image for horgen
#83 Posted by Horgen (120645 posts) -

@ad1x2 said:

Yes, but you don't have to be a citizen to fill ou the Census and the more people fill it out in a state, the more representatives that state will be allocated in the House of Representatives. It also results in more votes in the Electoral College since that is decided by the amount of representaives each state has plus two extra votes for the state's two senators.

You have an odd way of doing it.

Avatar image for Fuhrer_D
#84 Posted by Fuhrer_D (882 posts) -

@zaryia said:

@n64dd

The constitution isn't good with it. Which is why it hasn't been included in 70 years.

The Constitution requires that the census taken every ten years must be a total “enumeration” and that has long been understood as counting everyone living in America at the time the census is performed – citizens and non-citizens, legal residents and immigrant residents living in the United States without legal permission.

The Census wants to look at all living people in USA. No matter what. This question makes that measure inaccurate. They could not give the SCOTUS a legitimate reason for this question (because they can't say the real reason: For more GOP wins due to redistricting) and as such it was turned down.

But Trump doesn't really seem to care about the Constitution or SCOTUS on this one.

Technically, its the people answering the question that COULD make the measure inaccurate. To state otherwise is making assumptions. If they answer honestly, it has no affect on the accuracy of the measurement.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#85 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166636 posts) -

@jeezers said:

I'm aware lol but it flipped with trump vs Hillary, is it unheard of that PA votes trump again while the economy is doing well and we are in no major wars. I mean Trump was able to flip PA before and had literally no political experience. I don't know what the democrats are promising them in exchange for their vote, free health insurance for illegals?

Most of the time the incumbent has a greater chance than new blood, especially when things are going well. I could see PA going blue for a moderate dem like Biden (even then i think trump has a chance, nothing exciting about Biden), if its a warren, kamala, beto, booker, it will probably go trump too because those people are obviously pandering to extreme levels, they sound desperate.

Trump filled stadiums in PA

He's not getting the city votes.

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#86 Posted by Jacanuk (18616 posts) -

@horgen said:
@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:

I just fail to see the reason why we can’t ask whether or not they are citizens

Because it results in a less accurate census. As noted by Census Experts, Ross, and Hofeller. I mean this is the entire reason they want it done. They are counting on it, no pun intended.

By the way it also can effects legals. IE: A legal Hispanic family housing an illegal grandmother.

You have to be a citizen anyway to vote, don't you?

Technically yes but in some states like California, the valid ID, if they do bother to ask, for voting, is nothing more than a driving license, the catch here is that anyone can get it hereby Illegals.

The California Legislature has ordered the DMV to provide licenses to people who reside in California, even if you don't have proof of citizenship. The big picture is if you are a non-citizen, you can now get a driver's license and avoid fees and convictions for driving without a license.

In most cases, California voters are not required to show identification at their polling place. However, it is a good idea to bring identification with you when you vote for the first time. ... Other examples include your passport, driver license, officialCalifornia identification card, or student identification card.

Avatar image for sonicare
#87 Posted by sonicare (56775 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jeezers said:

I'm aware lol but it flipped with trump vs Hillary, is it unheard of that PA votes trump again while the economy is doing well and we are in no major wars. I mean Trump was able to flip PA before and had literally no political experience. I don't know what the democrats are promising them in exchange for their vote, free health insurance for illegals?

Most of the time the incumbent has a greater chance than new blood, especially when things are going well. I could see PA going blue for a moderate dem like Biden (even then i think trump has a chance, nothing exciting about Biden), if its a warren, kamala, beto, booker, it will probably go trump too because those people are obviously pandering to extreme levels, they sound desperate.

Trump filled stadiums in PA

He's not getting the city votes.

Pennsylvania has Pittsburgh in the west, philly in the east, and alabama in between.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#88 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166636 posts) -

@sonicare said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

He's not getting the city votes.

Pennsylvania has Pittsburgh in the west, philly in the east, and alabama in between.

Pretty much. Sadly.

Avatar image for zaryia
#89 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -

Just as I thought. Trump finally caved on this.

He had 0 legal argument for this question (as I've been "debating" with you guys all along).

We all know why they were trying to add this (gerrymandering).

Avatar image for zaryia
#90 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:

Holy cow you are trying to make up a spin here.

You know as well as anyone the reason why Democrats want this question of the census is because of the census count towards representation in the EC and in Congress.

So don´t try the BS with it being about funding.

It's better to actually read all the posts ITT before angrily spamming the reply button with nonsense:

@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

@zaryia: the irony is the left doesnt want the question asked either because they want more seats,

This is absolutely true.

The Dems want to keep their seats, the GOP wants to remove their seats and gain seats.

There is a catch though, the GOP is tampering with something (SCOTUS) while the Dems aren't.

I'm aware funding alone is not the only reason. You are absolutely correct, Dems don't want to lose seats through this gerrymandering. I've made this clear.

P.S. Trump just caved. They had no legal argument. No question is being added to the Census, so I guess that's one less way you guys will Gerrymander.

Avatar image for zaryia
#91 Posted by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@horgen said:
@ad1x2 said:

Yes, but you don't have to be a citizen to fill ou the Census and the more people fill it out in a state, the more representatives that state will be allocated in the House of Representatives. It also results in more votes in the Electoral College since that is decided by the amount of representaives each state has plus two extra votes for the state's two senators.

You have an odd way of doing it.

It would have potentially also resulted in less legal minorities taking the census, for the reasons I described.

The end result being their vote getting diminished. Which was the goal of this question.

Hofeller had conducted a study in 2015 which found that adding such a question would make it possible to draw district boundaries that "would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites." Hofeller himself wrote the portion of the Department of Justice letter used to justify why the Trump administration had made this decision.

Avatar image for joebones5000
#92 Posted by joebones5000 (2405 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

Technically yes but in some states like California, the valid ID, if they do bother to ask, for voting, is nothing more than a driving license, the catch here is that anyone can get it hereby Illegals.

The California Legislature has ordered the DMV to provide licenses to people who reside in California, even if you don't have proof of citizenship. The big picture is if you are a non-citizen, you can now get a driver's license and avoid fees and convictions for driving without a license.

In most cases, California voters are not required to show identification at their polling place. However, it is a good idea to bring identification with you when you vote for the first time. ... Other examples include your passport, driver license, officialCalifornia identification card, or student identification card.

Do you have any idea how voting works in the U.S.? You go to your local polling station. They verify you are registered via their roll, and you present an id or your voter registration card. They mark you off and you vote. That's it. There are no wild scenarios where "eeeeleeeguls" come in and vote no questions asked.

Avatar image for burntbyhellfire
#93 Posted by burntbyhellfire (268 posts) -

no, most states do not require an ID, in fact every time the discussion comes up, lefties who want foreigners meddling in their elcetions always screen that voter ID is raaaaaayciss!.. theres no ID, many states have same day registration, or only require a drivers license to vote, which they grant to illegals

Avatar image for jeezers
#94 Posted by jeezers (3039 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire: yup, new York you just need a drivers license

Avatar image for horgen
#95 Posted by Horgen (120645 posts) -

@zaryia said:
@horgen said:
@ad1x2 said:

Yes, but you don't have to be a citizen to fill ou the Census and the more people fill it out in a state, the more representatives that state will be allocated in the House of Representatives. It also results in more votes in the Electoral College since that is decided by the amount of representaives each state has plus two extra votes for the state's two senators.

You have an odd way of doing it.

It would have potentially also resulted in less legal minorities taking the census, for the reasons I described.

The end result being their vote getting diminished. Which was the goal of this question.

Hofeller had conducted a study in 2015 which found that adding such a question would make it possible to draw district boundaries that "would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites." Hofeller himself wrote the portion of the Department of Justice letter used to justify why the Trump administration had made this decision.

I know the intention behind it. Although some here would state that is just someones opinion about it.

Avatar image for HoolaHoopMan
#96 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10794 posts) -

I see the goal posts have changed now. Are we really falling back on the 'illegals are voting' argument now? It's been proven false time and time again.

Avatar image for burntbyhellfire
#97 Posted by burntbyhellfire (268 posts) -

@horgen said:
@zaryia said:
@horgen said:
@ad1x2 said:

Yes, but you don't have to be a citizen to fill ou the Census and the more people fill it out in a state, the more representatives that state will be allocated in the House of Representatives. It also results in more votes in the Electoral College since that is decided by the amount of representaives each state has plus two extra votes for the state's two senators.

You have an odd way of doing it.

It would have potentially also resulted in less legal minorities taking the census, for the reasons I described.

The end result being their vote getting diminished. Which was the goal of this question.

Hofeller had conducted a study in 2015 which found that adding such a question would make it possible to draw district boundaries that "would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites." Hofeller himself wrote the portion of the Department of Justice letter used to justify why the Trump administration had made this decision.

I know the intention behind it. Although some here would state that is just someones opinion about it.

no, nobody in the US legally fears stating to the government that they are not a citizen, because they are on record with the government as per the legal pathway to immigration and citizenship, as being a non citizen.. these people arent the ones hiding, theyve gone through the vetting process, background checks, etc

claiming legal immigrants are against it and afraid, is complete bullcrap, and every single one of the legal immigrants i know here are sick and tired of seeing people get pushed to the front of the line, without having to work for it, without even having to be gainfully employed, for politics, while they get the middle finger from the DNC

Avatar image for zaryia
#98 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@burntbyhellfire said:
@horgen said:

I know the intention behind it. Although some here would state that is just someones opinion about it.

no, nobody in the US legally fears stating to the government that they are not a citizen, because they are on record with the government as per the legal pathway to immigration and citizenship, as being a non citizen.. these people arent the ones hiding, theyve gone through the vetting process, background checks, etc

claiming legal immigrants are against it and afraid, is complete bullcrap, and every single one of the legal immigrants i know here are sick and tired of seeing people get pushed to the front of the line, without having to work for it, without even having to be gainfully employed, for politics, while they get the middle finger from the DNC

Studies by the GOP (who wanted this question for that specific reason), DNC, and Census Bureau all disagree with you. Basically all 3 sides disagree with you. Republican, Democrat, and Neutral.

The Census Bureau’s own experts estimated that households corresponding to 6.5 million people would not respond if the question were asked, leading to less accurate citizenship data.

Do you have counter citation of any form by a valid group or a study? Like anything other than your feelings and opinions? Because as of now you lost this "debate".

Avatar image for zaryia
#99 Edited by Zaryia (9061 posts) -
@burntbyhellfire said:

no, most states do not require an ID, in fact every time the discussion comes up, lefties who want foreigners meddling in their elcetions always screen that voter ID is raaaaaayciss!.. theres no ID, many states have same day registration, or only require a drivers license to vote, which they grant to illegals

How many illegals voted in 2016?

BTW The question was dropped. They had no legal ground and knew it. Looks like no gerrymandering and voter suppression for you this time! (In this specific instance that is, I'm sure you guys will still gerrymander and suppress votes in several other ways as you always do).