In the end even after you've maxed out your gear, the game is an infinite time sink until you quit. Simple as that.
WoW Pre BC
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="nethernova"] How anyone could have enjoyed that is beyond me. Only people with absolutely no social life could reach something because you had to be online 24/7.CaptainAhab13
pretty much this.
Not criticising you TC, but frankly the changes they made to casualize WoW were for the best.
Prior to WoW and its expansions, MMO players were stereotyped poorly and for good reasons. WoW sort of opened the genre to the world.
This. I often hear people complain about WoW not being "hardcore enough" or "too easy," but quite frankly I prefer it that way. MMO's used to only appeal to the hardcore gamer, now the genre has been opened up to way, way more people. Someone can now legitimately say "I dabble in MMO's... I play WoW" and not conjure images of sitting at a computer for 9 hours a day over the weekend spawn camping some dragon and waiting for a loot drop (yay for EverQuest). Blizz needs to make raiding more of a difficult thing, true, and Cataclysm is implementing much shorter raids (thank God). The honor system is great, and it is true that most people are in epics within a week of hitting 80. Is this a bad thing? It *can* be, if you want it to be. If you look at this game as a fun social experience, then making nigh-impossible 6-hour raids the only thing to do when you hit 80 is a terrible thing. If you look at this as a deep and powerful fantasy world that is out there to kill you, then yes, having things be easier for the everyman can be terrible. Just my two cents after playing lots of WoW. Cheers. Games have to push boundaries in every aspect, not just mainstreaming, the problem WoW has created is all of a sudden one company that knows how to play an audience by appealing to the reward segement of the brain in casino style pinnatta gameplay, neglecting story, presentation, depths of classes and combat, depth of tradeskills and depth of actually cross-class synergy or coordination, which is non existant in WoW. I agree things like "9 hours" ect are over the top, but difficulty shouldnt be comprimized... Blizzard seems to think otherwise because of $$$. everyone now tries to copy them, which is why the genre is in a rut, no challenge, no social, just solo grind fed ex quests to max level, and then do instances now and then. it has basterdized what MMOs were originally intended and aimed to be... purely multiplayer social experiances wether co-op or competitive. Its hypocritical to say "casual is good" when the surplus xp gain in FFXIV is being raged at despite it offering: 1) Fast leveling, yet limited for each class per week. (still good progression for less grind, encouraging playing most aspects of the game.) 2) Negating Gold Farmers (Tradeskill classes are also hindered) but not entirely. 3) Negating Power Leveling Services. 4) Forcing you to experiance what the game actually is, a co-op story universe with missions (important ones) for each class, instead of racing to max level to be a loot whoring kid. 5) Forces people to learn the classes so they are not pig ignorant at lvl 80 not knowing half thier own spells let alone the players they are playing with *cough* Heroics *cough*. WoW lost the plot, its Diablo, race to the end, brag about pinnatta loot.... get one peice of story per raid thats worth anything, and still looks like crap. The game is heavily outdated, all they are doing now is playing "spin the wheel" with thier existing mechanics, farting about with classes t ogive the illusion that they are "doing loads for this next expansion" .... yet adding nothing really new or ground breaking, just more ways of keeping the casual player base playing. Im glad FFXIV and GW2 exist.... thier genre is so messed up at the moment.[QUOTE="CaptainAhab13"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]This. I often hear people complain about WoW not being "hardcore enough" or "too easy," but quite frankly I prefer it that way. MMO's used to only appeal to the hardcore gamer, now the genre has been opened up to way, way more people. Someone can now legitimately say "I dabble in MMO's... I play WoW" and not conjure images of sitting at a computer for 9 hours a day over the weekend spawn camping some dragon and waiting for a loot drop (yay for EverQuest). Blizz needs to make raiding more of a difficult thing, true, and Cataclysm is implementing much shorter raids (thank God). The honor system is great, and it is true that most people are in epics within a week of hitting 80. Is this a bad thing? It *can* be, if you want it to be. If you look at this game as a fun social experience, then making nigh-impossible 6-hour raids the only thing to do when you hit 80 is a terrible thing. If you look at this as a deep and powerful fantasy world that is out there to kill you, then yes, having things be easier for the everyman can be terrible. Just my two cents after playing lots of WoW. Cheers. Games have to push boundaries in every aspect, not just mainstreaming, the problem WoW has created is all of a sudden one company that knows how to play an audience by appealing to the reward segement of the brain in casino style pinnatta gameplay, neglecting story, presentation, depths of classes and combat, depth of tradeskills and depth of actually cross-class synergy or coordination, which is non existant in WoW. I agree things like "9 hours" ect are over the top, but difficulty shouldnt be comprimized... Blizzard seems to think otherwise because of $$$. everyone now tries to copy them, which is why the genre is in a rut, no challenge, no social, just solo grind fed ex quests to max level, and then do instances now and then. it has basterdized what MMOs were originally intended and aimed to be... purely multiplayer social experiances wether co-op or competitive. Its hypocritical to say "casual is good" when the surplus xp gain in FFXIV is being raged at despite it offering: 1) Fast leveling, yet limited for each class per week. (still good progression for less grind, encouraging playing most aspects of the game.) 2) Negating Gold Farmers (Tradeskill classes are also hindered) but not entirely. 3) Negating Power Leveling Services. 4) Forcing you to experiance what the game actually is, a co-op story universe with missions (important ones) for each class, instead of racing to max level to be a loot whoring kid. 5) Forces people to learn the classes so they are not pig ignorant at lvl 80 not knowing half thier own spells let alone the players they are playing with *cough* Heroics *cough*. WoW lost the plot, its Diablo, race to the end, brag about pinnatta loot.... get one peice of story per raid thats worth anything, and still looks like crap. The game is heavily outdated, all they are doing now is playing "spin the wheel" with thier existing mechanics, farting about with classes t ogive the illusion that they are "doing loads for this next expansion" .... yet adding nothing really new or ground breaking, just more ways of keeping the casual player base playing. Im glad FFXIV and GW2 exist.... thier genre is so messed up at the moment. Leveling isn't fast at all in WoW. Compared to other MMO's it may be, but it takes months for the average player to even reach level 60, and three times as long to reach 80. I personally like Blizzards approach to the genre, because time is money and I'm not willing to waste several times more than I'm already wasting on an MMORPG when I could be doing other things like working, going out, working out, etc.pretty much this.
Not criticising you TC, but frankly the changes they made to casualize WoW were for the best.
Prior to WoW and its expansions, MMO players were stereotyped poorly and for good reasons. WoW sort of opened the genre to the world.
Birdy09
Games have to push boundaries in every aspect, not just mainstreaming, the problem WoW has created is all of a sudden one company that knows how to play an audience by appealing to the reward segement of the brain in casino style pinnatta gameplay, neglecting story, presentation, depths of classes and combat, depth of tradeskills and depth of actually cross-class synergy or coordination, which is non existant in WoW. I agree things like "9 hours" ect are over the top, but difficulty shouldnt be comprimized... Blizzard seems to think otherwise because of $$$. everyone now tries to copy them, which is why the genre is in a rut, no challenge, no social, just solo grind fed ex quests to max level, and then do instances now and then. it has basterdized what MMOs were originally intended and aimed to be... purely multiplayer social experiances wether co-op or competitive. Its hypocritical to say "casual is good" when the surplus xp gain in FFXIV is being raged at despite it offering: 1) Fast leveling, yet limited for each class per week. (still good progression for less grind, encouraging playing most aspects of the game.) 2) Negating Gold Farmers (Tradeskill classes are also hindered) but not entirely. 3) Negating Power Leveling Services. 4) Forcing you to experiance what the game actually is, a co-op story universe with missions (important ones) for each class, instead of racing to max level to be a loot whoring kid. 5) Forces people to learn the classes so they are not pig ignorant at lvl 80 not knowing half thier own spells let alone the players they are playing with *cough* Heroics *cough*. WoW lost the plot, its Diablo, race to the end, brag about pinnatta loot.... get one peice of story per raid thats worth anything, and still looks like crap. The game is heavily outdated, all they are doing now is playing "spin the wheel" with thier existing mechanics, farting about with classes t ogive the illusion that they are "doing loads for this next expansion" .... yet adding nothing really new or ground breaking, just more ways of keeping the casual player base playing. Im glad FFXIV and GW2 exist.... thier genre is so messed up at the moment.Birdy09
Most epic WoW post/rant EVER... You are my hero.
Leveling isn't fast at all in WoW. Compared to other MMO's it may be, but it takes months for the average player to even reach level 60, and three times as long to reach 80. I personally like Blizzards approach to the genre, because time is money and I'm not willing to waste several times more than I'm already wasting on an MMORPG when I could be doing other things like working, going out, working out, etc.shakmaster13
Leveling in WoW is insanely fast especially for certain classes. Mage, spriests, and paladins can be to 60 within 3 days /played, 70 in 4 days, and 80 in 5-6 days (I was able to get a hunter to 70 in just over 4 days /played). That is less than 150 hours total, which is not very long at all compared to anything like UO, AO, Everquest, etc.
For example, back when I played AO, the hardcore players **** that it took them 2+ months to get from 1-200 and another month to 205 with the expansion. Barring the original GW, WoW is by far the easiest MMO to level a character, hence why you get 75% of new 80's who have no idea how to play their class.
[QUOTE="shakmaster13"] Leveling isn't fast at all in WoW. Compared to other MMO's it may be, but it takes months for the average player to even reach level 60, and three times as long to reach 80. I personally like Blizzards approach to the genre, because time is money and I'm not willing to waste several times more than I'm already wasting on an MMORPG when I could be doing other things like working, going out, working out, etc.SerOlmy
Leveling in WoW is insanely fast especially for certain classes. Mage, spriests, and paladins can be to 60 within 3 days /played, 70 in 4 days, and 80 in 5-6 days (I was able to get a hunter to 70 in just over 4 days /played). That is less than 150 hours total, which is not very long at all compared to anything like UO, AO, Everquest, etc.
For example, back when I played AO, the hardcore players **** that it took them 2+ months to get from 1-200 and another month to 205 with the expansion. Barring the original GW, WoW is by far the easiest MMO to level a character, hence why you get 75% of new 80's who have no idea how to play their class.
Just because hardcore players can do it doesn't mean everyone can. I take my time leveling and enjoy the process, and considering that most people don't make it past level 10 I think that you are forgetting how niche the MMO genre used to be before WoW. The reason AO took so long to get to the end was because it was just one giant grind that required a huge timesink. This grind exists in the game so that people don't get to the endgame and realize that there really isn't much of an endgame.
Eh, we need an MMO that is hard enough to level in to satisfy the hardcore players, though not impossible enough to turn off absolutely everyone save the super legit hardcore gaming crowd (companies need to make money, people). We need an MMO that has loads upon loads of endgame content including perfectly balanced PvP, and fantastically hard raiding, along the side of some easier but just as rewarding raids in terms of loot for the more casual crowd. We need an MMO that has a world so vast it would take many months to fully explore, if not years, along with a few characters from multiple factions. We need an MMO that almost forces a story upon you, to make you fall in love with the lore and the world you are roleplaying in.
We need a new developer to create a new era of MMO gaming.
...or, GW 2/FFXIV, if they turn out fantastic like I hope they will.
WoW Pre BC was awful when you look back on it. BC was where it was at.. wotlk ruined it totally for me though.
Pre BC the honour system was really stupid, I spent countless hours a day grinding to warlord then I just realised it wasn't worth it... a bit too late :(
Instances were unnecessarily long (I liked the difficulty, the 15-30 minutes of trash before the boss wasn't cool though)
Rep grinding was the most tedious, and drawn out thing ever.... Oh thorium brotherhood how I loathe you!
Mount costs were insane.
Everyone was pigeoned holed into 1 role except the almighty warrior.
Though Pre BC ..
40 man raids were awesome!
Local realm pvp was great! It made the community in the game alot closer
Epics were.. actually epic.
The game was more of a challenge.
But these pros seriously didn't outweight the main issue of WoW Pre BC and that was the amount of time needed to invest into the game. I was seriously doing nothing with my life when I grind warlord, and even then all I could do was grind, if I did something else for the day I'd be in trouble when end of week came around. Then raids took hours for 4+ days a week for an average guild. This is simply too much time and to get anywhere you basically had to commit all your free time to the game.
The main point is that someone needs to strike a better balance between the old guard like AO, UO, Everquest (which were IMO way to punishing in most cases) and WoW (which is way to easy/monotonous in most cases). Espada I think hit the nail on the head. We need a well known company, with a lot of backing (both money and community wise) to take some chances and design something that is more complex, huge, and has tons of endgame content. Because lets face it, once you level a character to max level 1) all you are going to do is endgame stuff, and 2) you will be able to level subsequent characters twice as fast since you know the ropes.
So as a designer you either need to smooth out the leveling curve so it takes longer and make the lower levels interesting enough that people don't just powerlevel to end game, or you need tons and tons and tons of endgame content (both PvE and PvP). This means that regardless of how long it takes, most of the time people spend is going to be in endgame content. WoW has dozens of zones that remain nearly empty most of the day, because they are all low level zones and people blow through them in a few hours or days.
Newer games in the MMO area have failed for a number of reasons. They tried to copy WoW, they tried to copy the old gaurd, they didn't have enough content, they had no community support, etc. Its going to take someone with an understanding of what these guys have done wrong and what they have done right and bring it together in order to come up with something that will last when put up against WoW. There are two possibilities in the near future, but I still have my doubts. GW2, because I'm not sure they are serious about removing as much of the instanced content as possible. And TOR, which may not have enough grouping/social interaction early on or endgame content. The next 6 months or so should prove interesting, I'm really hoping one of these games can succeed where most others have failed.
I played WoW since BC so I don't know very much about "Vanilla WoW" but I can tell you that WotLK ruined everything. Will I play Cataclysm? Certainly not since GW 2 will come out.
I mean, to all these WoW players out there that are subscribing atm, whats the point of paying for this game? I mean, there's no more challenge in WoW. I don't want WoW to be as Hardcore as AION, but all you do is basicly pay for your arena points to come each weeks. Every new PvE content is cleared within a week for good raid guild and within 2 weeks for the rest. It is so easy to get fully geared... it's not even funny! You walk in Dalaran and every single lvl 80 has the same freaking equipment because it is too damn easy to get! About lvling... you get EASLY get to lvl 80 in 2 weeks. Cmon... 2 weeks... People out there have 4 lvl 80s completely geared. You won't ever see this in AION...
So since PvE is so easy, what worthes paying for WoW then? PvP?? Ah cmon! Alright! lets BG with a bunch of noobs and lets hope not facing another premade! And maybe I'll get 25k Honor Points to buy my new bracer that everyone already has. Oh and the Lumber Mill has been taken! Screw LM, I'll follow the group and get more Honor Kills!
Oh but wait... There are the Arenas. (I'm not sarcastic anymore) Well, Arenas is where the game is. This is where you can really use your skills in the game and it's the only place that if you're noob, you won't succeed. I played Arenas and I had so much fun there. But there again, Discipline Priest + Mutilate Rogue or Resto Druid + MS Warrior... the E-Z way.
So, does it worth paying 75$ + monthly fees for a screwed PvE, Lame battlegrounds, Laggy Wintergrasp and well Cool Arenas? I don't think so cuz... you're basicly paying to wait the next week to receive your arena points and get the same piece of armor that everyone already has. Yes, back in time WoW was better, but it doesn't worth being paid for anymore. Maybe Cataclysm will change a lot of things, especially in the BGs, but hey! The lvl cap has raised to 85 so all that you did during WotLK is now worthless... and you payed for this.
I may sound like a WoW hater, but I actually played it alot. It's been about a year that I've stopped playing it but my friends are still playing it so I know what I'm saying. I'm currently not into any other MMO, I'm looking foward to play GW 2. AION is a great game too, and I might get back to it since they've released the Patch 1.9 where it requires less XP to lvl (less grind) and they added more flight path and stuff... I mean AION is a new game and it's better than WoW with 2 expansions...
So, with that being said, I'll play some Starcraft 2! (I still love blizzard... I simply quit'd WoW... GW 2 is going to be awesome).
The PVP honor system was really brutal. The top leaders in my realm were literally setting up their own system where they would not "outdo" each other in points. So people who wanted to rank up and get to Grand Marshal pretty much had to wait in line. When I decided i wanted to hit GM, I pvp'ed like crazy and boy did I piss people off. I had people PM with threats and loads of crap.. and sending their guildies at me... lol Seriously.. what were they going to do? Emote me to death? People took this game way too seriously.. and the sad part of it was.. they weren't even young kids and teenagers.. grown adults with wives, husbands, and kids. It was like a soap opera. That's when I knew I had to quit WoW. It was getting rather, idiotic.WoW Pre BC was awful when you look back on it. BC was where it was at.. wotlk ruined it totally for me though.
Pre BC the honour system was really stupid, I spent countless hours a day grinding to warlord then I just realised it wasn't worth it... a bit too late :(
Instances were unnecessarily long (I liked the difficulty, the 15-30 minutes of trash before the boss wasn't cool though)
Rep grinding was the most tedious, and drawn out thing ever.... Oh thorium brotherhood how I loathe you!
Mount costs were insane.
Everyone was pigeoned holed into 1 role except the almighty warrior.
Though Pre BC ..
40 man raids were awesome!
Local realm pvp was great! It made the community in the game alot closer
Epics were.. actually epic.
The game was more of a challenge.
But these pros seriously didn't outweight the main issue of WoW Pre BC and that was the amount of time needed to invest into the game. I was seriously doing nothing with my life when I grind warlord, and even then all I could do was grind, if I did something else for the day I'd be in trouble when end of week came around. Then raids took hours for 4+ days a week for an average guild. This is simply too much time and to get anywhere you basically had to commit all your free time to the game.
Espada12
The PVP honor system was really brutal. The top leaders in my realm were literally setting up their own system where they would not "outdo" each other in points. So people who wanted to rank up and get to Grand Marshal pretty much had to wait in line. When I decided i wanted to hit GM, I pvp'ed like crazy and boy did I piss people off. I had people PM with threats and loads of crap.. and sending their guildies at me... lol Seriously.. what were they going to do? Emote me to death? People took this game way too seriously.. and the sad part of it was.. they weren't even young kids and teenagers.. grown adults with wives, husbands, and kids. It was like a soap opera. That's when I knew I had to quit WoW. It was getting rather, idiotic.Elann2008
My guild pretty much did the same setup, and we pumped out around 21 high warlords.. I was supposed to be the 22nd but I was like F that. But yea alliance side they got a dude banned by claiming he was account sharing. TBH he was but with his girlfriend :s, the funny thing was so were they, I reported them and got them banned to for lulz (I was on horde and I thought that was a real low move). Alot of QQ came my way, but I didn't care!
Yes vanilla WoW was the best. I usually resubscribe maybe once a year, have loads of fun, then get bored to death. It just feels like a huge grind now and the sense of adventure is gone.Mochyc
that's what happened to me.
I still haven't gotten WOTLK because I have no interest in it.
i really enjoyed thje game before I got BC but after that it wasn't as fun
[QUOTE="Espada12"]The PVP honor system was really brutal. The top leaders in my realm were literally setting up their own system where they would not "outdo" each other in points. So people who wanted to rank up and get to Grand Marshal pretty much had to wait in line. When I decided i wanted to hit GM, I pvp'ed like crazy and boy did I piss people off. I had people PM with threats and loads of crap.. and sending their guildies at me... lol Seriously.. what were they going to do? Emote me to death? People took this game way too seriously.. and the sad part of it was.. they weren't even young kids and teenagers.. grown adults with wives, husbands, and kids. It was like a soap opera. That's when I knew I had to quit WoW. It was getting rather, idiotic.WoW Pre BC was awful when you look back on it. BC was where it was at.. wotlk ruined it totally for me though.
Pre BC the honour system was really stupid, I spent countless hours a day grinding to warlord then I just realised it wasn't worth it... a bit too late :(
Instances were unnecessarily long (I liked the difficulty, the 15-30 minutes of trash before the boss wasn't cool though)
Rep grinding was the most tedious, and drawn out thing ever.... Oh thorium brotherhood how I loathe you!
Mount costs were insane.
Everyone was pigeoned holed into 1 role except the almighty warrior.
Though Pre BC ..
40 man raids were awesome!
Local realm pvp was great! It made the community in the game alot closer
Epics were.. actually epic.
The game was more of a challenge.
But these pros seriously didn't outweight the main issue of WoW Pre BC and that was the amount of time needed to invest into the game. I was seriously doing nothing with my life when I grind warlord, and even then all I could do was grind, if I did something else for the day I'd be in trouble when end of week came around. Then raids took hours for 4+ days a week for an average guild. This is simply too much time and to get anywhere you basically had to commit all your free time to the game.
Elann2008
On my server we did the same thing they had a cap honor so people didn't have to play 20 hours a day to get GM/HW.
On my server we did the same thing they had a cap honor so people didn't have to play 20 hours a day to get GM/HW.
blizzgeek
Having been in my server's PvP raid, I can tell that you are saying utter bs.
It took about 3 hours a day to make enough honor to get to rank 14.
[QUOTE="-Unreal-"][QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]
I enjoyed BC the most BEFORE they started completely nerfing the content. Did Vashj, KT prenerf and we were the only guild on the server that did it. We were farming BT when every other guild was getting free epics because of the attunment removal for Hyjal. I enjoyed SSC/TK/Hyjal (only the bosses) and BT/Sunwell were fantastic raids that were challenging and were very fun. After the nerfs started coming in and the easy epics rolled in i sold my account and made a nice profit playing wow.
Now with Wrath its so ez mode that its really not even a slight challenge. Naxx was a complete joke and was being pugged 2 months into the game. I hear that Icecrown is a complete joke too. The game now completely focuses on casual players who just want shiny epics. Its a shame, but i can live with it since The Old Republic is just around the corner.
I did enjoy Pre BC too though, and its a 1 BC 2, Pre BC in terms of rating what was the best. Wrath was complete trash, and Cataclysm is gonna be even more casual/ez mode free epics for the kiddies.
Also the PVP got hardcore ruined midway through BC. S3/S4 gladiator and eventually blizzard casualed that up too. I understand that Blizzard picked the biggest market and not the hardcore players, but they really could have atleast tried to throw those players a bone. terrible achievements didn't help. Titles were unique, but now everyone and their mother has one.
Birdy09
Ok so you managed to beat SSC and The Eye before they took away the attunements. Why would beating them before anyone else make you any more dissapointed at seeing other players do it week or months after you. Meanwhile you're on Black Temple and they're not.
You got dissapointed that people were able to do TK and SSC too and so you quit?
The term "ez epics" leads me to ask if you know of item levels. Just because the item's name that guy standing next to you is wearing is purple doesn't mean it's as good or better than what you earned from beating TK.
As I said several times already in this thread, ICC was nerfed due to it being the end of the expansion and would allow people who have not experienced the content, to see it. It could be thought of as selfish to go against this decision.
I don't understand how the PvP "got hardcore ruined" either. They've not really changed much.
I congratulate you on being able to do SSC and TK before the nerf and like other people on GameSpot forums who used to be successful at WoW in PvE or PvP, I wish you still had your character so I could check it out. :)
Sigh, even if you nerf something at an end of expansion, this stuff still engraved into your achievements, but then every one and thier mothers are classes as the same then, when that is nopt healthy competition. why should everyone whos not good at a game view the top end content, theres nothing to strive for then.... ridiculoous notion by crap players. Achivements have date stamps. Sometimes achievements are even removed. Same with titles and unique drops. You seem to be the type of player that strives to achieve goals before anyone else and this is why I'm interested in checking out your characters. I could give you a scroll of ressurection which is of no cost to you and you can show me them if you want.To answer your question, Blizzard thought that because it's the end of the expansion, players who aren't as dedicated as others should still have a chance to see the content since to be fair, they are paying to play the game. People who are good at the game had seen it ages ago anyway, it's selfish to take the stance that players who aren't as good at the game should have practically no chance to see the best content.
I don't understand what you mean. Large groups fighting is still the same as it always was. Not much has changed. You can't say large scale PvP has any balancing issues since it involves large numbers of players with spells and weapons flying everywhere at once.Well we can agree to disagree on that then. I can understand enjoying the competition, but PvP in WoW was never about small groups until then. It really hurt the BGs and world PvP, because everything was being balanced for arenas and all the good gear was coming out of arenas only. The majority of the population doesn't play arenas (or even like them for that matter) they play BGs and WG. This pitted the hardcore arena people against the rest of the PvP community and eventually the PvE crowd because they were getting nerfed due to arena balance issues. The community basically imploded about 6 months after arena. I can understand Blizz wanting to appeal to the competition crowds, but forcing all the other players that enjoyed PvP into arenas to get the best gear was a huge mistake IMO, it made everyone except the hardcore arena crowd extremely bitter.
So I guess you could say I am very displeased with the way arenas were handled (from BC through WotLK) and not necessarily arenas in general. If people hadn't been forced into it, it wouldn't have been a problem.
SerOlmy
[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]Hell, it takes about 10-20 hours to get enough emblems of triumph for gear, and even that is too long.Velocitas8
No kidding. I've given the game multiple tries, trying to get to the "fun stuff" ..but I always end up getting bored along the way. Too much repetition and too many pointless, mind-numbing timesinks. It is somewhat bearable with friends, sure, but only to a point. I did return for BC and WoTLK (coming away disappointed, though slightly less-so with BC), however I don't think I'll be setting foot in Cataclysm.
I think I'm actually done with traditional MMOs in general, but I may be giving GW2 a shot. Maybe.
Want rewarded for skill rather than time sinking? Do arena.[QUOTE="Velocitas8"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]Hell, it takes about 10-20 hours to get enough emblems of triumph for gear, and even that is too long.-Unreal-
No kidding. I've given the game multiple tries, trying to get to the "fun stuff" ..but I always end up getting bored along the way. Too much repetition and too many pointless, mind-numbing timesinks. It is somewhat bearable with friends, sure, but only to a point. I did return for BC and WoTLK (coming away disappointed, though slightly less-so with BC), however I don't think I'll be setting foot in Cataclysm.
I think I'm actually done with traditional MMOs in general, but I may be giving GW2 a shot. Maybe.
Want rewarded for skill rather than time sinking? Do arena. Arena isnt balanced. it never was and never will be. so whats the point in claiming skill in a rock paper scissors broken list of class imbalances? yea ok reactions ect. but its made redundant. Only skillful RPGs ive seen are DoTA/HoN ect, alot more to those.Games have to push boundaries in every aspect, not just mainstreaming, the problem WoW has created is all of a sudden one company that knows how to play an audience by appealing to the reward segement of the brain in casino style pinnatta gameplay, neglecting story, presentation, depths of classes and combat, depth of tradeskills and depth of actually cross-class synergy or coordination, which is non existant in WoW. I agree things like "9 hours" ect are over the top, but difficulty shouldnt be comprimized... Blizzard seems to think otherwise because of $$$. everyone now tries to copy them, which is why the genre is in a rut, no challenge, no social, just solo grind fed ex quests to max level, and then do instances now and then. it has basterdized what MMOs were originally intended and aimed to be... purely multiplayer social experiances wether co-op or competitive. Its hypocritical to say "casual is good" when the surplus xp gain in FFXIV is being raged at despite it offering: 1) Fast leveling, yet limited for each class per week. (still good progression for less grind, encouraging playing most aspects of the game.) 2) Negating Gold Farmers (Tradeskill classes are also hindered) but not entirely. 3) Negating Power Leveling Services. 4) Forcing you to experiance what the game actually is, a co-op story universe with missions (important ones) for each class, instead of racing to max level to be a loot whoring kid. 5) Forces people to learn the classes so they are not pig ignorant at lvl 80 not knowing half thier own spells let alone the players they are playing with *cough* Heroics *cough*. WoW lost the plot, its Diablo, race to the end, brag about pinnatta loot.... get one peice of story per raid thats worth anything, and still looks like crap. The game is heavily outdated, all they are doing now is playing "spin the wheel" with thier existing mechanics, farting about with classes t ogive the illusion that they are "doing loads for this next expansion" .... yet adding nothing really new or ground breaking, just more ways of keeping the casual player base playing. Im glad FFXIV and GW2 exist.... thier genre is so messed up at the moment.Birdy09
There's plenty of story in WoW. You must have not been reading ANY of the dialogue. There's absolutely loads of it. In fact there's even an entire database website dedicated to the story involving the game.
You'll have to explain what you mean by depths of classes. I see loads of depth. A Feral Druid definitely doesn't play the same as a balance or Resto Druid. You can break it down more than that. A Feral with talents specific to tanking will play much differently to one with talents based on emphasising DPS output. You can say the same for any class, since each have three talent trees and within those three there's still even more depth to customising the way it'll play. Don't forget the way you gem, glyph and which gear you use will also affect gameplay especially in PvP.
Again I find you talking about challenge in the game. When did you finish SWP and BT? When did you finish ICC? They've even had to nerf several bosses because even the best guilds had difficulty beating them.
You said there's no social aspect to the game, but that is entirely up to yourself. I've had a blast with the game over the long period it has been out. Join a good guild, check out the new dungeons as they're released, have a laugh on Vent trying to figure out new encounters, or you could just create an arena team or do some PvP in BGs. You don't have to do quests and level with groups or with a friend, however the fact that it is optional is an excellent choice. If you have a friend or friends to play with, then this wouldn't even be an issue. The social aspect of the game is up to yourself. If you play the game with your friend and your friend has to log off but you want to continue, it's not much fun finding yourself hitting a wall because everything needs a group to beat. There's still quests that need groups to beat, but giving the player the ability to get to the maximum level in the game going solo isn't a bad thing, it's an welcome option.
FFXIV's restrictions on levelling is a terrible idea. I watched a video called the MMO report and the guy had commented on how it is stupid to restrict players from playing a game they are paying a fee to play. Because who is going to play the game when there are restrictions in place?
You can "race to max level and become a loot whoring kid" if you choose to be, but you're not going to enjoy the game for very long. The players who really enjoy MMOs are players who enjoy playing alongside teammates, making friends, seeing new content and trying to achieve goals with their friends as part of a team. I don't see any MMO that prohibits the ability to level to the cap and become a loot whore.
I don't see how WoW doesn't let you learn the class. This is the reason why you can't just create a level 80 character. I don't see how FFXIV is any different from WoW in regards to forcing the player to learn the class. WoW has you create a character and learn on your own because it is so intuitive. The bad players you've met in the game don't necessarily mean that it's a game flaw, it means that player hasn't explored their character themselves. One minute people say that WoW is a game that holds the player's hand too much, but this seems a bit different. Games shouldn't have to force the player to do quests or tutorials to learn how to play their class, it should be intuitive and left up to the player to play the game themselves. When you go and learn a skill in WoW it gives you a tooltip telling you what that ability does. It's up to the player to try that skill out or even read the tooltip since more often than not, it's not rocket science.
If WoW is as you say "a race to the end, brag about pinnatta loot" then I had a lot of fun going through the zones, getting new quests, seeing new factions, seeing new scenery, reading different stories related to the different factions, seeing old faces from the old games and completing quest lines. Racing to the end to brag about loot is your own option. You can rush through the game if you want, or you can enjoy the game and just do quest lines and explore the zones. Again, freedom is a nice things WoW has. This is similar to the comment before about racing to max level to become a loot whoring kid. It's a choice.
There's more than just story in raids. There's a whole website dedicated to the story involved in WoW. Most of the story in WoW is introduced through quests out in the world not in raids. Most of the stories are intertwined and involve various factions too. The end point of major quest lines are usually involving raids and raid bosses, which makes perfect sense and is a natural progression.
"get one peice of story per raid thats worth anything, and still looks like crap" I don't understand to what you're saying looks like crap. The raid instances? The raid instances look better than any MMO I've seen. The gear? Again looks better than any other MMO I've seen thanks to Blizzard's talented art team.
Games don't need to do anything new to be awesome. WoW actually proved that point. Doing things extremely well is the most important thing. You'll have to give me some examples ofthe new things FFXIV and GW2 are bringing to the genre.
[QUOTE="-Unreal-"][QUOTE="Velocitas8"]Want rewarded for skill rather than time sinking? Do arena. Arena isnt balanced. it never was and never will be. so whats the point in claiming skill in a rock paper scissors broken list of class imbalances? yea ok reactions ect. but its made redundant. Only skillful RPGs ive seen are DoTA/HoN ect, alot more to those.So if arena was and never will be balanced, why have you never achieved gladiator rank? Wouldn't it be easy to just pick the best class and achieve it. There's even tournaments btw, and with the lack of skill in WoW PvP I'm surprised you've not won every single one of them.No kidding. I've given the game multiple tries, trying to get to the "fun stuff" ..but I always end up getting bored along the way. Too much repetition and too many pointless, mind-numbing timesinks. It is somewhat bearable with friends, sure, but only to a point. I did return for BC and WoTLK (coming away disappointed, though slightly less-so with BC), however I don't think I'll be setting foot in Cataclysm.
I think I'm actually done with traditional MMOs in general, but I may be giving GW2 a shot. Maybe.
Birdy09
[QUOTE="0rbs"]What experiences did you enjoy the most and feel won't be replicated in the game again?Original WoW was quite the experience, and I don't think blizzard can replicate it again, within this game.
-Unreal-
Reginald Windsor's rescue
The Missing Diplomat
The Defias Brotherhood
Barrens chat
All the in-guild stuff before BC
Cutthroat PvP
That's all I can think of right now.
The only thing that would make me return is if Blizz added Pandaren as a playable race.
Arena isnt balanced. it never was and never will be. so whats the point in claiming skill in a rock paper scissors broken list of class imbalances? yea ok reactions ect. but its made redundant. Only skillful RPGs ive seen are DoTA/HoN ect, alot more to those.So if arena was and never will be balanced, why have you never achieved gladiator rank? Wouldn't it be easy to just pick the best class and achieve it. There's even tournaments btw, and with the lack of skill in WoW PvP I'm surprised you've not won every single one of them. I'm sorry, I was going to take the time to respond to your above post, and this one. but now you have resorted to the immature, pointless and last resort "If its so bad, why arnt you the best i nthe world at it" remark. your still in the addicted phase where the game cant do no wrong. so I'm just wasting my time on you. "Loads of story" ... sigh, too bad the way its presented is just nothing. but im guessing the follow up response would be "lol learn2read" ... yea terrific.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"] Want rewarded for skill rather than time sinking? Do arena. -Unreal-
What experiences did you enjoy the most and feel won't be replicated in the game again?[QUOTE="-Unreal-"][QUOTE="0rbs"]
Original WoW was quite the experience, and I don't think blizzard can replicate it again, within this game.
Mograine
Reginald Windsor's rescue
The Missing Diplomat
The Defias Brotherhood
Barrens chat
All the in-guild stuff before BC
Cutthroat PvP
That's all I can think of right now.
This is one of the reasons why alliance > horde. The others being that alliance races aren't evil **** that the most immature people want to play to be the bad guys (orcs, trolls and tauren are ok but BE's and undead umm no), and that alliance cities look 1000000000 times cooler than horde cities.This is one of the reasons why alliance > horde. The others being that alliance races aren't evil **** that the most immature people want to play to be the bad guys (orcs, trolls and tauren are ok but BE's and undead umm no), and that alliance cities look 1000000000 times cooler than horde cities.shakmaster13
Yeah, too bad Alliance gets owned expansion after expansion. Seems Cataclysm will do the same, although I've stopped following the beta more than a month ago.
[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]So if arena was and never will be balanced, why have you never achieved gladiator rank? Wouldn't it be easy to just pick the best class and achieve it. There's even tournaments btw, and with the lack of skill in WoW PvP I'm surprised you've not won every single one of them. I'm sorry, I was going to take the time to respond to your above post, and this one. but now you have resorted to the immature, pointless and last resort "If its so bad, why arnt you the best i nthe world at it" remark. your still in the addicted phase where the game cant do no wrong. so I'm just wasting my time on you. "Loads of story" ... sigh, too bad the way its presented is just nothing. but im guessing the follow up response would be "lol learn2read" ... yea terrific. Lol, only people who suck at playing their class think arenas aren't balanced..[QUOTE="Birdy09"] Arena isnt balanced. it never was and never will be. so whats the point in claiming skill in a rock paper scissors broken list of class imbalances? yea ok reactions ect. but its made redundant. Only skillful RPGs ive seen are DoTA/HoN ect, alot more to those.Birdy09
[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]This is one of the reasons why alliance > horde. The others being that alliance races aren't evil **** that the most immature people want to play to be the bad guys (orcs, trolls and tauren are ok but BE's and undead umm no), and that alliance cities look 1000000000 times cooler than horde cities.
Mograine
Yeah, too bad Alliance gets owned expansion after expansion. Seems Cataclysm will do the same, although I've stopped following the beta more than a month ago.
Yeah I hope the next expansion with Azshara will have the alliance take back some places. I kinda hate how the undead are expanding through their plague :x[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"]So if arena was and never will be balanced, why have you never achieved gladiator rank? Wouldn't it be easy to just pick the best class and achieve it. There's even tournaments btw, and with the lack of skill in WoW PvP I'm surprised you've not won every single one of them.I'm sorry, I was going to take the time to respond to your above post, and this one. but now you have resorted to the immature, pointless and last resort "If its so bad, why arnt you the best i nthe world at it" remark. your still in the addicted phase where the game cant do no wrong. so I'm just wasting my time on you. "Loads of story" ... sigh, too bad the way its presented is just nothing. but im guessing the follow up response would be "lol learn2read" ... yea terrific. Lol, only people who suck at playing their class think arenas aren't balanced.. :roll: case and point. was hilarious during that very long time period where Rogue, Mage, Priest alone dominated the top 10 ... if you think WoWs PvP is balanced your either a fanboy or just not paying close attention to anything but your own PuG experiance.SLUSHiNaToR
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