[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Kinda of like Counter-Strike - numerous multiplayer FPS games can try to copy its success through similarity but none of them will ever succeed because CS does it best.Swiftstrike5I haven't seen any games try to copy CS. It's wasn't even originally a retail game. It has such simple game play mechanics, that there's not a single FPS on the market that doesn't resemble it in some way or another. Heck, it probably copied Golden Eye. Either way, there are plenty of more recent multiplayer FPS that are more successful than CS. I really shouldn't even have to name them... As for SW:ToR, speculate as you wish, but don't expect major innovations in the MMO genre. If voice overs / choices is all SW:ToR has to offer over WoW then that's a step in the right direction, is it not? It adds immersion that inevitably vacates WoW when you realize that reading quests becomes tedious and boring. Heck, did anyone even read a single quest? There's no storyline and you have absolutely no impact on the game world. If you can tell that ToR lacks those from that one video, you must be psychic. I don't even understand how you pulled out that ToR was going to be a grindfest... About the ONLY thing you can tell from that video is that the low level combat/classes resemble the foundation of a typical MMO. I would prefer it has more to offer, such as a fantastic community filled with player housing and a player driven economy. I'm still on the fence about the game, but I haven't played a bad Bioware (or even average) game to date and I don't think I ever will. It's going to be tough for them to top SWG though. I agree with EVERYTHING you said. Except one tiny bit: the storyline in WoW is really good if you take the time to read the quests and follow the characters...
SW: The Old Republic GAMEPLAY !!!
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Right....cause of course you have written a story in your basement that will make lots and lots of more millions of dollars than George Lucas.. Great, can't wait to see the movie...let me know the release date... Awww did I hurt your feelings? Are you gonna cry now that I said Star Wars sucks! Do you want a tissue? hmmm? :) This game is just overhyped and you know it! Just cause it's being made by Bioware, doesn't mean it's gonna be the BEST ever, it's gonna suck, end of story. OOOOH WOW narrated quests and animations, OOooooo, lack of imagination? (which IIRC was the whole point of RPGs like the tabletop DnD no?) Can't read a paragraph either?I guess making your head work a little makes your brain hurt. Deep down inside, the core mechanics are gonna be the same, only covered up by some gimmick, it's just another MMO, stop fapping over it. Yes sir.... u are TOTALLY right. Star Wars made by George Lucas = $$$$ Millions of Dollars in Movies, TV Shows, Toys, Comics, Gaming, etc ...trastamad03 said it sux (maybe his made up stories are better) BioWare = one of the best RPG Companies in the world = $$$$ Millions of Dollars in gaming and probably a Mass Effect Movie in the works ...trastamad03 said it sux (maybe his made up games are better) Definitely from now on I will tell everyone to follow u before watching a movie or buying a game. Thanks for ur insight.... (Star Wars + BioWare TROLL People....BEWARE !!! )[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="trastamad03"] Troll? Or reality? Star Wars does suck, when will they stop milking the same cow is beyond me, same with Final Fantasy... how many "Final" fantasies can someone have?trastamad03
Right....cause of course you have written a story in your basement that will make lots and lots of more millions of dollars than George Lucas.. Great, can't wait to see the movie...let me know the release date... Awww did I hurt your feelings? Are you gonna cry now that I said Star Wars sucks! Do you want a tissue? hmmm? :) This game is just overhyped and you know it! Just cause it's being made by Bioware, doesn't mean it's gonna be the BEST ever, it's gonna suck, end of story. OOOOH WOW narrated quests and animations, OOooooo, lack of imagination? (which IIRC was the whole point of RPGs like the tabletop DnD no?) Can't read a paragraph either?I guess making your head work a little makes your brain hurt. Deep down inside, the core mechanics are gonna be the same, only covered up by some gimmick, it's just another MMO, stop fapping over it.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="trastamad03"] Troll? Or reality? Star Wars does suck, when will they stop milking the same cow is beyond me, same with Final Fantasy... how many "Final" fantasies can someone have?trastamad03
This is just stupid and childish. If you hate the game so much why are you even posting here??? Your ignorant posts won't change anyone's mind. If someone wants to buy it - he buys it, it's not like they have to ask for permission.
Imo - grow up.
[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]Kinda of like Counter-Strike - numerous multiplayer FPS games can try to copy its success through similarity but none of them will ever succeed because CS does it best.Swiftstrike5I haven't seen any games try to copy CS. It's wasn't even originally a retail game. It has such simple game play mechanics, that there's not a single FPS on the market that doesn't resemble it in some way or another.
Games like CS and DOTA are designed for competitive play, you can label them simple, but they are true E-sports, whereas games like WoW for example while try to be comeptitive dont have the same sportmanship, just time investment and pray you dont have a group of idiots while racing to down a boss, or arena which is so heavily unbalanced its not even funny.
Heck, it probably copied Golden Eye. Either way, there are plenty of more recent multiplayer FPS that are more successful than CS. I really shouldn't even have to name them... As for SW:ToR, speculate as you wish, but don't expect major innovations in the MMO genre. If voice overs / choices is all SW:ToR has to offer over WoW then that's a step in the right direction, is it not? It adds immersion that inevitably vacates WoW when you realize that reading quests becomes tedious and boring. Heck, did anyone even read a single quest? There's no storyline and you have absolutely no impact on the game world. If you can tell that ToR lacks those from that one video, you must be psychic. I don't even understand how you pulled out that ToR was going to be a grindfest... About the ONLY thing you can tell from that video is that the low level combat/****s resemble the foundation of a typical MMO. I would prefer it has more to offer, such as a fantastic community filled with player housing and a player driven economy. I'm still on the fence about the game, but I haven't played a bad Bioware (or even average) game to date and I don't think I ever will. It's going to be tough for them to top SWG though.
You have no impact on the game world in SW;TOR? an MMO world is suppose to be based around the players actions, which effect other players, not your little NPC choices that will ultimatly once your at end game will only effect your allingment status and what gear youve achieved on the way, your loyalty to Republic or Empire is already set in stone so whats the point? its such a flawed gimmicky concept.
And well, look at its 2 competitors, Guild Wars 2 has ingame world impacts based on your success and failures while doing missions, where enemies get stronger in certain areas depending on how well the players are doing. FF11 Online had this aswell, dunno about FFXIV Online, but FFXIV is voice acted in its missions aswell, and your character is at the centre of it all, in the many fantastic looking curscenes that emerse you into an epic story more than godamn standing there clikc optional text with drab NPCs 99% the way through the game.
This is a ****c arguement between JRPG vs WRPG. theres no secret JRPGs do drama, intense action cutscenes better, but those that value choices (as hollow as they ultimatly are) will automatically favour this. Id rather memorable story characters portrayed properly likea movie around me than just watch NPCs stand there and chat away at me bioware... thanks again though.
[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]All evidence so far points to it being a WoW clone. And no, not every MMO will have similar things to WoW. Ever play Ultima Online? Eve Online? Darkfall? GTA: SA MP? These games for the most part are different from WoW. The same can't be said for ToR. Are u basing it on graphics alone though? cause yes they both look alike. As for quests...every MMO has fetch quests...or kill this quest. I don't know if it's gonna be like WoW or not.... but I applaud BioWare for actually trying to bring STORY into MMO, which most seem to put in the background. And also, BioWare has yet to release a game I didn't like....so they have my vote. Its been said a thousand times already in this thread, its a mixture of everything, graphics, combat, dumbed down nature of it all, the same zoomed out small people, cartooney artstyle, appealing to lower end computers, boring talent trees... 2 factions, 10 classes, very similar movement and control, same basic agro mechanics... It reeks of WoW, its just not that hard to understand is it?[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Every MMO will have "similar" things to WoW.... But to call it a WoW clone is premature....FelipeInside
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="KHAndAnime"] All evidence so far points to it being a WoW clone. And no, not every MMO will have similar things to WoW. Ever play Ultima Online? Eve Online? Darkfall? GTA: SA MP? These games for the most part are different from WoW. The same can't be said for ToR.Are u basing it on graphics alone though? cause yes they both look alike. As for quests...every MMO has fetch quests...or kill this quest. I don't know if it's gonna be like WoW or not.... but I applaud BioWare for actually trying to bring STORY into MMO, which most seem to put in the background. And also, BioWare has yet to release a game I didn't like....so they have my vote. Its been said a thousand times already in this thread, its a mixture of everything, graphics, combat, dumbed down nature of it all, the same zoomed out small people, cartooney artstyle, appealing to lower end computers, boring talent trees... 2 factions, 10 classes, very similar movement and control, same basic agro mechanics... It reeks of WoW, its just not that hard to understand is it? and WoW reeks of like....Every other MMO before it.Birdy09
Its been said a thousand times already in this thread, its a mixture of everything, graphics, combat, dumbed down nature of it all, the same zoomed out small people, cartooney artstyle, appealing to lower end computers, boring talent trees... 2 factions, 10 classes, very similar movement and control, same basic agro mechanics... It reeks of WoW, its just not that hard to understand is it? and WoW reeks of like....Every other MMO before it. Only it doesnt, shame that.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Are u basing it on graphics alone though? cause yes they both look alike. As for quests...every MMO has fetch quests...or kill this quest. I don't know if it's gonna be like WoW or not.... but I applaud BioWare for actually trying to bring STORY into MMO, which most seem to put in the background. And also, BioWare has yet to release a game I didn't like....so they have my vote.Nibroc420
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]and WoW reeks of like....Every other MMO before it. Only it doesnt, shame that.[QUOTE="Birdy09"] Its been said a thousand times already in this thread, its a mixture of everything, graphics, combat, dumbed down nature of it all, the same zoomed out small people, cartooney artstyle, appealing to lower end computers, boring talent trees... 2 factions, 10 classes, very similar movement and control, same basic agro mechanics... It reeks of WoW, its just not that hard to understand is it?Birdy09
Excuse me? WoW practically copied everything except it's races/lore from other games and then dumbed it down even further to make it appeal to the masses. WoW is nothing "New" or "Original" It's just the best version because it's been out for so long, and blizzard has dumped millions upon millions into it to make it into what it is today.
edit: posted inside your quote xD
Only it doesnt, shame that.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] and WoW reeks of like....Every other MMO before it.
Nibroc420
Excuse me? WoW practically copied everything except it's races/lore from other games and then dumbed it down even further to make it appeal to the masses. WoW is nothing "New" or "Original" It's just the best version because it's been out for so long, and blizzard has dumped millions upon millions into it to make it into what it is today.
edit: posted inside your quote xD
I cant say it so much for Guild Wars, but im glad Eve Online and Final Fantasy XIV exist, true the latter is down the "EQ Tree" as apposed to the Ultima online tree of MMOs, but it looks and feels very unique... it tries to stand out and isnt afraid to push the technological boundaries, I give it alot of respect for that.
ToR already just seems like a cash cow that Bioware wants in on.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]
[QUOTE="Birdy09"] Only it doesnt, shame that.Birdy09
Excuse me? WoW practically copied everything except it's races/lore from other games and then dumbed it down even further to make it appeal to the masses. WoW is nothing "New" or "Original" It's just the best version because it's been out for so long, and blizzard has dumped millions upon millions into it to make it into what it is today.
edit: posted inside your quote xD
I cant say it so much for Guild Wars, but im glad Eve Online and Final Fantasy XIV exist, true the latter is down the "EQ Tree" as apposed to the Ultima online tree of MMOs, but it looks and feels very unique... it tries to stand out and isnt afraid to push the technological boundaries, I give it alot of respect for that.
ToR already just seems like a cash cow that Bioware wants in on.
Obviously, Any company who makes an MMO is simply looking for a way to easy money. "Make a game, charge people for it, then charge them again every month so they can play it" Is pretty much the foundation for every MMO.Companies Copy Wow, Much like Blizzard Copied other MMOs, They find what people like in the interface and go with that, Maybe making a few alterations. But it seems these days every time an MMO gets released/announced that people go "Oh, a WoW Clone" While they're forgetting that WoW is simply a copy of older MMOs with a few UI tweaks and a different lore. Why must we compare these to WoW? Why has WoW become exempt from copying other games, but games cannot copy WoW?
it's like DoTA, it became popular, and now we have LoL, HoN, and maybe a couple other DoTA clones,However they're all a bit different.
What about Doom? as soon as it became popular we had a TON of FPS games coming out that were essentially clones.
Or Bioshock, Bioshock did an awesome job of the whole plasmids/gunplay mechanics, and now we have Singularity which is essentially the same, yet no-one complains because theres a few differences.
Why should the MMO market be any different? Companies need to figure out what the customer would buy and build a game to that market. If they want to steal WoW's customers, they need to make their game feel the same so as people dont have to learn a new system, but they have to adapt it so it's not a 100% clone. ToR does this with it's CIass system and it's Story driven, fully voiced quests that actually have effects. Rather than just "Collect 10 Wolf Pelts" with an accept button on the bottom
I am well aware of this, I played SW:G, Dransik, DoAC and Final Fantasy XI before WoW even released. the thing is people just dont see the obvious difference between say WoW and EQ, and how most MMO nows including ToR are nearly identical to WoW, copying all of its casual assets to the point of cloning, stagnating the industry, WoW doesnt look or Feel like everquest, regaurdless of the same party/dungeon concept.[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]
Excuse me? WoW practically copied everything except it's races/lore from other games and then dumbed it down even further to make it appeal to the masses. WoW is nothing "New" or "Original" It's just the best version because it's been out for so long, and blizzard has dumped millions upon millions into it to make it into what it is today.
edit: posted inside your quote xDNibroc420
I cant say it so much for Guild Wars, but im glad Eve Online and Final Fantasy XIV exist, true the latter is down the "EQ Tree" as apposed to the Ultima online tree of MMOs, but it looks and feels very unique... it tries to stand out and isnt afraid to push the technological boundaries, I give it alot of respect for that.
ToR already just seems like a cash cow that Bioware wants in on.
Obviously, Any company who makes an MMO is simply looking for a way to easy money. "Make a game, charge people for it, then charge them again every month so they can play it" Is pretty much the foundation for every MMO. True, though that doesnt stop companies like CCP Games (Eve) or Square-Enix from trying to spread out concepts alot more( in terms of gameplay ) does it?Companies Copy Wow, Much like Blizzard Copied other MMOs, They find what people like in the interface and go with that, Maybe making a few alterations. But it seems these days every time an MMO gets released/announced that people go "Oh, a WoW Clone" While they're forgetting that WoW is simply a copy of older MMOs with a few UI tweaks and a different lore. Why must we compare these to WoW? Why has WoW become exempt from copying other games, but games cannot copy WoW? Theres more to it than that, WoW changed the direction of the MMO (EQ **** into a handheld linear experiance, even EQ was more open but a considerable ammount, everything about WoW was designed to basically make a seemless version of diablo, easy accessible, loot farm. where the MMO genre has much more potential than this.
it's like DoTA, it became popular, and now we have LoL, HoN, and maybe a couple other DoTA clones,However they're all a bit different. HoN is consistently bashed for being DoTA, however recognized for tis competitive approach and scene. LoL on the other hand is the WoW or Halo of DoTa ... "babys first" hell it has talent trees, you can see that LoL is heavily influenced by WoW in most departments aswell (but ofc a different genre) ...
people like me for example think LoL is just nothing, its too easy, too basic, its only staying power is feeding off people that like to grind ranks.
What about Doom? as soon as it became popular we had a TON of FPS games coming out that were essentially clones. another false comparison, or rather one taht works against you, yes there are doom clones, but then... theres alot more variety that are nothing like doom.
Or Bioshock, Bioshock did an awesome job of the whole plasmids/gunplay mechanics, and now we have Singularity which is essentially the same, yet no-one complains because theres a few differences. 1 similar game so far, hardly a comparison to the ammount of MMOs that feel like WoW is it?
Why should the MMO market be any different? Companies need to figure out what the customer would buy and build a game to that market. If they want to steal WoW's customers, they need to make their game feel the same so as people dont have to learn a new system, but they have to adapt it so it's not a 100% clone. ToR does this with it's CIass system and it's Story driven, fully voiced quests that actually have effects. Rather than just "Collect 10 Wolf Pelts" with an accept button on the bottom But see this is where im confused with your logic, why would WoW players, who have a game with 400% more content than say ToR on release.... why would they want to learn essentially the same game with less content, polish or variety.
and again, im not buying Biowares crap marketing, they claimed the normal triad Tank , DPS , Healing wouldnt be the main focus, which is clearly already is, which begs the question of "what other concepts will they realize they cant achieve?" story driven, speech or not, your still grinding mobs for "brains" as the video in this thread shows... only to get a stupid little option of killing a traitor.
"Quest choice will effect others down the line" ... yea ... 1 out of every 100 or so fed ex quests im guessing. or main mission campiagn only.
Look, its not just WoW players that are stating these things, if it was then you would have a point, but when you have MMO enthusiasts in general saying it, surely there is some point to it?
Why is the MMO market different, because its still premature, the original concept of games like Ultima Online was to make a virtual player run world, and its still possible if the risk is worth taking, meanwhile however the behemoth that is World of Warcraft has set any kind of amazing potential for the MMO industry back, many MANY years, yea ok its great having awesome Co-op RPGs (which essentially, is all that theme park mmos like WoW are) ... but the potential goes far beyond this.
I also love Bioware fanboys think the idea of role-playing is choosing dialogue options that wont effect anything with any real substance, when role-playing was originally the idea of the players make the actions, make the world, make alliances and enemies based on thier choice and communication with other beings, not forced factions with minor drab NPCs responding to simple kill commands layed out in advanced.
I also love Bioware fanboys think the idea of role-playing is choosing dialogue options that wont effect anything with any real substance, when role-playing was originally the idea of the players make the actions, make the world, make alliances and enemies based on thier choice and communication with other beings, not forced factions with minor drab NPCs responding to simple kill commands layed out in advanced.
Birdy09
By your words, WoW isn't a Roleplaying game. the only games that even come close that that is Darkfall, Mortal online, and EVE
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
I also love Bioware fanboys think the idea of role-playing is choosing dialogue options that wont effect anything with any real substance, when role-playing was originally the idea of the players make the actions, make the world, make alliances and enemies based on thier choice and communication with other beings, not forced factions with minor drab NPCs responding to simple kill commands layed out in advanced.
Nibroc420
By your words, WoW isn't a Roleplaying game. the only games that even come close that that is Darkfall, Mortal online, and EVE Theyre all role-playing games, something as simple as stat building counts, but the arguement boils down to "True RPGs are Western RPGs that give you story choices" ... when the very idea that your handheld through a story works against that concept.
You have no impact on the game world in SW;TOR? an MMO world is suppose to be based around the players actions, which effect other players, not your little NPC choices that will ultimatly once your at end game will only effect your allingment status and what gear youve achieved on the way, your loyalty to Republic or Empire is already set in stone so whats the point? its such a flawed gimmicky concept.Birdy09I said there's no impact in the WoW game world. I'm not speculating on what will be in SW:ToR.
To be honest, Guild Wars 2 / FFXIV player impact sounds more 'gimmicky' to me. I honestly don't care if someone else has to fight more difficult creatures because I failed/succeeded. I would rather be conquering planets for the Empire or burning Rebel settlements to the ground (see SW:G). If I don't see player impact on the universe or a good community structure then you're right, I probably won't like ToR. Still, don't try to convince me that the game will fail when you know so little.
As for JRPGs (favorites being Star Ocean and Legend of Legaia), I have played some very good ones. I'm actually still playing Star Ocean since I never finished it before my PS1 broke. That being said, the most recent ones have been very bland with the same ol'mechanics. As for WRPGs, I enjoy the immersion. JRPGs are NOT the same. You feel no resemblence in the character you're supposed to play in JRPGs and they develop in one direction. In games like Mass Effect, the character develops as you want them to. You want to shoot someone in the head because he/she slightly annoys you? Go ahead, it's your character, not the developers. Sure the choices are limited, but they're better than what JRPGs have to offer in terms of immersion. You want a story, you want a movie? Play some old school JRPGs (the new ones are fairly bad). You want immersion, you want a video game? Play some WRPGs.
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
I also love Bioware fanboys think the idea of role-playing is choosing dialogue options that wont effect anything with any real substance, when role-playing was originally the idea of the players make the actions, make the world, make alliances and enemies based on thier choice and communication with other beings, not forced factions with minor drab NPCs responding to simple kill commands layed out in advanced.
Birdy09
By your words, WoW isn't a Roleplaying game. the only games that even come close that that is Darkfall, Mortal online, and EVE Theyre all role-playing games, something as simple as stat building counts, but the arguement boils down to "True RPGs are Western RPGs that give you story choices" ... when the very idea that your handheld through a story works against that concept. Who says your hand is held through a story in ToR? By the same logic your hand is held through WoW simply because you start at a starting zone and can follow a set path in which enemies gradually get harder.(durotar--> Barrens-->10k needles --->tanaris --> Ungoro then to outlands and so on)
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]You have no impact on the game world in SW;TOR? an MMO world is suppose to be based around the players actions, which effect other players, not your little NPC choices that will ultimatly once your at end game will only effect your allingment status and what gear youve achieved on the way, your loyalty to Republic or Empire is already set in stone so whats the point? its such a flawed gimmicky concept.Swiftstrike5I said there's no impact in the WoW game world. I'm not speculating on what will be in SW:ToR. To be honest, Guild Wars 2 / FFXIV player impact sounds more 'gimmicky' to me. I honestly don't care if someone else has to fight more difficult creatures because I failed/succeeded. I would rather be conquering planets for the Empire or burning Rebel settlements to the ground (see SW:G).
Whats gimmicky about being the centre fold along with enjoyable characters and villans? where your character is in every cutscene at the centre of the action? compare to the ToR/WoW style where the camera barely every changes (ToRs case, purely for chat upclose).
I guarantee regardless of what action you choose in 99% of ToRs quests you will be doing the same thing... as an empire person you will be doing exactly what you say.. ToRs biggest gimmick is infact the dialogue, while its nice to have it all voice acted... ultimately its just a nicer way of presenting the quests and grinding, its not story revolutionary and it certainly wont make a story epic on its own. for example (cant give any examples of GW2 yet unforunatly). The FFXIV benchmark is the opening cutscene after character creation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTwBajW_-yY&feature=PlayList&p=A6CF4FF4E4A0F227&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=43
58 seconds with the whispering voice is where the player's character is (it can be consfusing because the tutorial takes place inbetween some points of these clips) and its rendered, not pre-rendered videos. Both story types are modern presentations, and no FFXIV or GW2 dont have every single npc voice acted, but then, after hearing them once, how much would a player care really? so much is being poured into ToR's voice, story elements, and yet, the gameplay is WoWs... if not worse from what we have seen so far.
I said there's no impact in the WoW game world. I'm not speculating on what will be in SW:ToR. To be honest, Guild Wars 2 / FFXIV player impact sounds more 'gimmicky' to me. I honestly don't care if someone else has to fight more difficult creatures because I failed/succeeded. I would rather be conquering planets for the Empire or burning Rebel settlements to the ground (see SW:G).[QUOTE="Swiftstrike5"][QUOTE="Birdy09"]You have no impact on the game world in SW;TOR? an MMO world is suppose to be based around the players actions, which effect other players, not your little NPC choices that will ultimatly once your at end game will only effect your allingment status and what gear youve achieved on the way, your loyalty to Republic or Empire is already set in stone so whats the point? its such a flawed gimmicky concept.Birdy09
Whats gimmicky about being the centre fold along with enjoyable characters and villans?
I was talking about the only thing you mentioned regarding player impact on FFXIV. How monsters increase or decrease for other players depending on if you succeed/fail. That's what I consider a gimmick. I wasn't talking about anything else. You seem to keep misinterpreting what I'm typing.Theyre all role-playing games, something as simple as stat building counts, but the arguement boils down to "True RPGs are Western RPGs that give you story choices" ... when the very idea that your handheld through a story works against that concept. Who says your hand is held through a story in ToR? By the same logic your hand is held through WoW simply because you start at a starting zone and can follow a set path in which enemies gradually get harder.(durotar--> Barrens-->10k needles --->tanaris --> Ungoro then to outlands and so on) .... thats gameplay, why is it so hard to understand that a scripted story with multiple script options is just as linear and ultimatly differs very little than say, a sandbox MMO, where you decide "Hey, im going to be a space pirate... nobody told me to, no NPCs... nothing, im just going to establish a base here, and pray on people in whatever fashion I like." Bioware overated themselves, no matter what I be wether it evil or good in thier games, I end up killing the same final boss, or bosses on the route, all I ever do is kill of insigifigant characters when im evil, or save them if im not. or perhaps get a few more gold from someone. now when we translate this to an MMO... you will have these medicre aspects, yet what you say and do within the player community wont matter, if your empire you will jsut be mindless killing the enemy player with no consequences, no real worthwhile actions, just a kill board like WoWs.[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]
By your words, WoW isn't a Roleplaying game. the only games that even come close that that is Darkfall, Mortal online, and EVENibroc420
I swear people seem to forget that a MULTIPLAYER RPG is a different genre to RPG.
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
[QUOTE="Swiftstrike5"] I said there's no impact in the WoW game world. I'm not speculating on what will be in SW:ToR. To be honest, Guild Wars 2 / FFXIV player impact sounds more 'gimmicky' to me. I honestly don't care if someone else has to fight more difficult creatures because I failed/succeeded. I would rather be conquering planets for the Empire or burning Rebel settlements to the ground (see SW:G).Swiftstrike5
Whats gimmicky about being the centre fold along with enjoyable characters and villans?
I was talking about the only thing you mentioned regarding player impact on FFXIV. How monsters increase or decrease for other players depending on if you succeed/fail. That's what I consider a gimmick. I wasn't talking about anything else. You seem to keep misinterpreting what I'm typing. My bad, Il elaborate more on that one then. Having choices with NPCs is just the same as the becnhmark i showed you, or mayaswell be, you will see these things happen once, but ultimatly it will have no effect on the world of everyone on your server, wheras the enemy forces growing stronger in regions where players are failing is for example, a consequence and a fail, or the opposite route where one of the 3 factions is dominating they gain benefits in that area. What effect does killing that traitor in the video have? nothing, an insigifigant NPC model has died off because of you. interesting? once or twice, how many times is this going to happen in a fed ex quest grind MMO? Theres no conclusion, you wont have the KOTOR 1 ending where you are the head of an empire star destroyer ... youl just be in a lobby waiting to grind the enemy players, or repeating the same dungeon. the effect isnt the same, because the genre isnt the same.@ coreybg (because I cant quote you without errors)
Yes yes whatever, if its not too early to hype like mad and say "zomg these videos are awesome day 1 buy for me!" then its not to early to establish critisms, gimmicks and possible flaws, and to point out the obvious degree of cloning of WoW.
Ofcourse alot of it boils down to frustration when casual filled sites like this think this is the only MMO worth its salt on the horizon due to "teh Biowarez making a WoW-like game with teh jedi!"and basically saying it will crush every other mmo (dont say this isnt the case, because it is).
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]and WoW reeks of like....Every other MMO before it. Only it doesnt, shame that. wow... ignorant much? world of warcraft is indeed a carbon coby of EQ style gameplay.... and maintains the same mechanics of most MMOs that came before it....[QUOTE="Birdy09"] Its been said a thousand times already in this thread, its a mixture of everything, graphics, combat, dumbed down nature of it all, the same zoomed out small people, cartooney artstyle, appealing to lower end computers, boring talent trees... 2 factions, 10 classes, very similar movement and control, same basic agro mechanics... It reeks of WoW, its just not that hard to understand is it?Birdy09
[QUOTE="coreybg"]
"from what i've seen so far"
That's what everyone fails to understand.
Everyone is flaming and bashing yet no1 knows **** about it!
Everybody's seen a couple of gameplay vids and suddenly they're all experts.
Nibroc420
Welcome to the internets.
Not really a problem with the internet my friend, its a problem with humanity.
We lie and deny, just to validate our own agendas/faiths/ideas/worth.
[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] and WoW reeks of like....Every other MMO before it.Only it doesnt, shame that. wow... ignorant much? world of warcraft is indeed a carbon coby of EQ style gameplay.... and maintains the same mechanics of most MMOs that came before it....*Roland123_basic
facepalm couldnt you have read the follow up posts before commenting? though you have it for me at least make some effort. Its fun how about 5 times in this thread you have said I dont have a clue and are ignorant blah blah, when all youve done this entire thread is "Lalalal its nothing alike lalala" and thrown the most basic rubbish excuses possible at me.
@ General Showzer No, Its expected that they could of at least tried to stir up the combat side of things, though I should of guessed, combat, itemization, balance was never ever one of Bioware's strong suits... funnily enough the foundations of a decent MMO.
I don't think the game's looks suck.... I really like the art direction, it's very SW Comic like.... but I guess it comes down to personal opinion.That's just another excuse to make the game look like it sucks, even though nobody knows.
coreybg
looks pretty standard, the story will make it or breaik it for me however.ShuraijuroI like the graphics...could be better but I think they will work. 2 Things that REALLY have me worried though... I know it's in Alpha stage....but on the gameplay videos....sometimes I don't see character shadows....and also no wind movement from the trees.... this REALLY needs to be implemented cause it adds to the realism...
One thing a lot of people are complaining about that I don't agree with. It's dumbed down for low-end computers.... why is this a bad thing? On the gamer side: "Great, I don't need a monster rig to play it" On developer side: "We can get more subscribers, wider audience" When did GRAPHICS alone determine a game's quality...???FelipeInsideYeah, I actually like the graphics even though I wouldn't mind realistic graphics either... my problem is that it looks like I've done all this stuff before and I already know that the combat of MMO's is something that has never really appealed to me. I need something more than "choice" (which I don't think will be as big as they claim) and a Star Wars coat of paint to get me paying a monthly fee.
wow... ignorant much? world of warcraft is indeed a carbon coby of EQ style gameplay.... and maintains the same mechanics of most MMOs that came before it....*[QUOTE="Roland123_basic"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] Only it doesnt, shame that.Birdy09
facepalm couldnt you have read the follow up posts before commenting? though you have it for me at least make some effort. Its fun how about 5 times in this thread you have said I dont have a clue and are ignorant blah blah, when all youve done this entire thread is "Lalalal its nothing alike lalala" and thrown the most basic rubbish excuses possible at me.
@ General Showzer No, Its expected that they could of at least tried to stir up the combat side of things, though I should of guessed, combat, itemization, balance was never ever one of Bioware's strong suits... funnily enough the foundations of a decent MMO.
you are throwing around the most basic, rubbish excuses for TOR being a WOW clone.... seriously. get off your high horse. you know virtually nothing about the game aside from a single video that showed[QUOTE="coreybg"]I don't think the game's looks suck.... I really like the art direction, it's very SW Comic like.... but I guess it comes down to personal opinion.That's just another excuse to make the game look like it sucks, even though nobody knows.
FelipeInside
What I meant was that this is the bashers' exsue to make it look bad.I like to 2, and people flaming and wow-cloning won't change my mind.
I don't think the game's looks suck.... I really like the art direction, it's very SW Comic like.... but I guess it comes down to personal opinion.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="coreybg"]
That's just another excuse to make the game look like it sucks, even though nobody knows.
coreybg
What I meant was that this is the bashers' exsue to make it look bad.I like to 2, and people flaming and wow-cloning won't change my mind.
Even if we got you to realize it's a silly WoW clone, you'd still hype the game to hell and back. What I want you to at least acknowledge is that the game is close enough to WoW that it's not going to offer a new MMO experience. And then from that, people can make a decision if they want to play this kind of game or not.Sooo, In order to not be a wow-clone, BioWare must do...what?
Invent a new genre called non-wow mmorpg?
Create a new MMO combat system?
Also, I'm not looking for a new MMO experience, I'm looking for a new game experience.
MMOs are alike yes, they're the same genre after all, but the same goes with every other genre.
It's like saying HL2 is a clone of doom and it won't offer any new experience cuz it's the same genre.
Same goes with MMOs, they're the same genre, but different games.
You don't see someone turning an FPS into a TPS and calling it the new FPS do you?
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]*[QUOTE="Roland123_basic"] wow... ignorant much? world of warcraft is indeed a carbon coby of EQ style gameplay.... and maintains the same mechanics of most MMOs that came before it....Roland123_basic
facepalm couldnt you have read the follow up posts before commenting? though you have it for me at least make some effort. Its fun how about 5 times in this thread you have said I dont have a clue and are ignorant blah blah, when all youve done this entire thread is "Lalalal its nothing alike lalala" and thrown the most basic rubbish excuses possible at me.
@ General Showzer No, Its expected that they could of at least tried to stir up the combat side of things, though I should of guessed, combat, itemization, balance was never ever one of Bioware's strong suits... funnily enough the foundations of a decent MMO.
you are throwing around the most basic, rubbish excuses for TOR being a WOW clone.... seriously. get off your high horse. you know virtually nothing about the game aside from a single video that showed Sigh, look this thread has been 50/50, mmorpg.com's ToR section is 50/50, you look at thier forum aswell and theres a good multiple threads on each page expressing dissapointment or the clear over-simularity to World of Warcraft, so we are all just lying are we? considering neither GW2 or FFXIV has any of these problems within thier community already, why? BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY STAND OUT from the WoW clones. "lalala your wrong im right" , you know its funny how we are not allowed to form opinions based on material *THAT IS SUPPOSE TO GIVE US AN IDEA OF THE GAME* and form intellctual theorys and opinions based on past experiances with new and old MMOs? And yet... you lot are saying "ZOMG teh star wars and the bioware brand (most of the casuals who will play this wont even know what bioware is.) Im going to be a Paladin reskinned I mean ummm Jedi Knight!" ... and yet... you bash us for our theorys and opinions. So its only acceptable to hype and bum love a game based on little information? thats fantastic and great foward thinking :roll:They just have to keep from making WoW: Storytelling Edition. Don't overcomplicate things.Sooo, In order to not be a wow-clone, BioWare must do...what?
Invent a new genre called non-wow mmorpg?
Create a new MMO combat system?
Also, I'm not looking for a new MMO experience, I'm looking for a new game experience.
MMOs are alike yes, they're the same genre after all, but the same goes with every other genre.
It's like saying HL2 is a clone of doom and it won't offer any new experience cuz it's the same genre.
Same goes with MMOs, they're the same genre, but different games.
You don't see someone turning an FPS into a TPS and calling it the new FPS do you?
coreybg
People are wanting a heavy community driven MMO game like the ones of yesteryear. The recent trend of MMO's is a lot of hand holding and it doesn't offer a lot of depth to the games anyone has to see this, the MMO's now are just big online co-op games with little community interaction outside of PvP or any sort of dungeon/instance/raid scenario.Sooo, In order to not be a wow-clone, BioWare must do...what?
Invent a new genre called non-wow mmorpg?
Create a new MMO combat system?
Also, I'm not looking for a new MMO experience, I'm looking for a new game experience.
MMOs are alike yes, they're the same genre after all, but the same goes with every other genre.
It's like saying HL2 is a clone of doom and it won't offer any new experience cuz it's the same genre.
Same goes with MMOs, they're the same genre, but different games.
You don't see someone turning an FPS into a TPS and calling it the new FPS do you?
coreybg
Why not create a new MMO combat system? Almost every new MMO game claims to have advanced MMO combat, but most of the time it turns out to be BS... I doubt this game will change much of anything. You act like innovation is impossible when it's not.Sooo, In order to not be a wow-clone, BioWare must do...what?
Invent a new genre called non-wow mmorpg?
Create a new MMO combat system?
Also, I'm not looking for a new MMO experience, I'm looking for a new game experience.
MMOs are alike yes, they're the same genre after all, but the same goes with every other genre.
It's like saying HL2 is a clone of doom and it won't offer any new experience cuz it's the same genre.
Same goes with MMOs, they're the same genre, but different games.
You don't see someone turning an FPS into a TPS and calling it the new FPS do you?
coreybg
Why not create a new MMO combat system? Almost every new MMO game claims to have advanced MMO combat, but most of the time it turns out to be BS... I doubt this game will change much of anything. You act like innovation is impossible when it's not.[QUOTE="coreybg"]
Sooo, In order to not be a wow-clone, BioWare must do...what?
Invent a new genre called non-wow mmorpg?
Create a new MMO combat system?
Also, I'm not looking for a new MMO experience, I'm looking for a new game experience.
MMOs are alike yes, they're the same genre after all, but the same goes with every other genre.
It's like saying HL2 is a clone of doom and it won't offer any new experience cuz it's the same genre.
Same goes with MMOs, they're the same genre, but different games.
You don't see someone turning an FPS into a TPS and calling it the new FPS do you?
smokeydabear076
As I understand it MMOs need to keep combat relatively simple until processors/bandwidth catch up with smaller multiplayer games (ala BC2, BF2 etc)
To make up for the simple combat there are tons of skills and customization that keeps the combat interesting.
We won't see physics in an MMO for 10 more years.
Why not create a new MMO combat system? Almost every new MMO game claims to have advanced MMO combat, but most of the time it turns out to be BS... I doubt this game will change much of anything. You act like innovation is impossible when it's not.[QUOTE="smokeydabear076"]
[QUOTE="coreybg"]
Sooo, In order to not be a wow-clone, BioWare must do...what?
Invent a new genre called non-wow mmorpg?
Create a new MMO combat system?
Also, I'm not looking for a new MMO experience, I'm looking for a new game experience.
MMOs are alike yes, they're the same genre after all, but the same goes with every other genre.
It's like saying HL2 is a clone of doom and it won't offer any new experience cuz it's the same genre.
Same goes with MMOs, they're the same genre, but different games.
You don't see someone turning an FPS into a TPS and calling it the new FPS do you?
haberman13
As I understand it MMOs need to keep combat relatively simple until processors/bandwidth catch up with smaller multiplayer games (ala BC2, BF2 etc)
To make up for the simple combat there are tons of skills and customization that keeps the combat interesting.
We won't see physics in an MMO for 10 more years.
You can evolve a combat system based on maths ot just physics. for instance FFXIV? Agrro works with sight, hearing, smell, noise as apposed to just "Players level = radius". Combat system is turn based yet fast (Very similar to FF13's, though not quite as spamish), skill chains, being able to remove sections of enemys to change the battle, break humanoids weapons ect. Every positioning counts, not just attack from front to tank, back for DPS, different classes in different positions effect eachother ect. Not just jump spam, circle strafe WoW style oh and ... ToR style. (to keep it on thread track.)[QUOTE="coreybg"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] I don't think the game's looks suck.... I really like the art direction, it's very SW Comic like.... but I guess it comes down to personal opinion.KHAndAnime
What I meant was that this is the bashers' exsue to make it look bad.I like to 2, and people flaming and wow-cloning won't change my mind.
Even if we got you to realize it's a silly WoW clone, you'd still hype the game to hell and back. What I want you to at least acknowledge is that the game is close enough to WoW that it's not going to offer a new MMO experience. And then from that, people can make a decision if they want to play this kind of game or not. But you don't know that.... no one does. No one knows if it's gonna be like WoW or not just with a few combat videos.... yes yes, the combat looks similar, but SOMETHING has to be similar...[QUOTE="haberman13"][QUOTE="smokeydabear076"]Why not create a new MMO combat system? Almost every new MMO game claims to have advanced MMO combat, but most of the time it turns out to be BS... I doubt this game will change much of anything. You act like innovation is impossible when it's not.
Birdy09
As I understand it MMOs need to keep combat relatively simple until processors/bandwidth catch up with smaller multiplayer games (ala BC2, BF2 etc)
To make up for the simple combat there are tons of skills and customization that keeps the combat interesting.
We won't see physics in an MMO for 10 more years.
You can evolve a combat system based on maths ot just physics. for instance FFXIV? Agrro works with sight, hearing, smell, noise as apposed to just "Players level = radius". Combat system is turn based yet fast (Very similar to FF13's, though not quite as spamish), skill chains, being able to remove sections of enemys to change the battle, break humanoids weapons ect. Every positioning counts, not just attack from front to tank, back for DPS, different classes in different positions effect eachother ect. Not just jump spam, circle strafe WoW style oh and ... ToR style. (to keep it on thread track.) are you being serious? smell? REALLY!? its a game, there is no such thing as smell. i really doubt they created some crazy algorithm to simulate smell in game for the mobs.aggro is dictated by a cone of vision and proximity, nothing more.
you are honestly grasping at more straws than anyone else in this forum to try to prove that FF14 is going to be a revolutionary MMO. its getting pretty absurd.
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