Is SWTOR and Reaction Proof That We Have All Lost Our Minds?

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#1 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

I know that there are plenty of posts about SWTOR, bioware, media-hype, marketing ploys, day-1 DLC, on and on and if I was Garrison Keillor or Martin Luther King in his "Letter from an Alabama Jail Cell" or whatever, I would wax eloquently about it all, and sum it up nicely. The world would cumulatively read my post on gamespot and we'd all hold hands and change. But since I'm really just lucky to have made it through another year, I will say this.

I tested SWTOR and didn't play it. I'm doing the free-to-play thing and do enjoy it. Does level 1 and 2 of a Sith Warrior compare to the melee combat action of the opening raid of Witcher 2? Hell, no. It's an MMO.

Was it insane to pump as much money as Lucas Arts / EA / Bioware did? Probably. Was the gaming community's visceral reaction to the game (WoW clone or whatever) completely over the top? Yes. It was.

It's a fun game. I am glad I have the option to play it. It makes me sad if they lose money on it. Being a gamer, I'd like them to do well.

Maybe we've all been trained to buy, buy, buy but reality has closed in on us and now we can't, can't, can't. Rather than save our money and not play SWTOR, we rail against it!

We love games so much that we crucify developers who didn't sleep from 2008 to 2010 to bring us "Kotor 3 to 8". But then we "Like" on Facebook a game critic like Yahtzee Croshaw who excoriates every game he touches (which at first is refreshing but) then tells you how the d-mn trilogy will end right there in his review (not fine/bordering on do*chbaggy.)

SWTOR is a good game. Perhaps the MMO pay as you go model doesn't work in a down economy when we all have a boatload of free multiplayer games all over our PCs.

-------------

Update: Correction...I may have spoke up a little too soon on this.  I didn't buy it after beta and still haven't spent any money or even been playing it passed a very early level.  Combat does feel dated I realized after unlocking more powers.  When I'm wrong, I admit I'm wrong.  I feel better now.

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#2 Posted by donalbane (16383 posts) -
I tried it. I don't like it. My friends are playing it and they want me to play it but I just want to quit and go back to ACIII or Far Cry 3.
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#3 Posted by jakes456 (1398 posts) -

SWTOR is a good game for 15 year olds.

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#4 Posted by DanielDust (15402 posts) -

SWTOR deserves what it go, that you like it and think everyone should too and to not have any kind of expectations (because that's the only way anyone could fully appreciate SWTOR, by not having any standards), it's your opinion.

The only thing I want to correct is your statement about investments, Lucas Arts didn't invest into SWTOR, not even a cent, LA is sucking EA dry, they are the most important reason for SWTOR's cost, their insane value for their license.

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#5 Posted by Deadpool-n (489 posts) -
I enjoyed it when I was subscribing. But the f2p takes things away so I'm not bothering till they make the whole thing f2p or make it worth subscribing to again.
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#6 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

SWTOR deserves what it go, that you like it and think everyone should too and to not have any kind of expectations (because that's the only way anyone could fully appreciate SWTOR, by not having any standards), it's your opinion.

The only thing I want to correct is your statement about investments, Lucas Arts didn't invest into SWTOR, not even a cent, LA is sucking EA dry, they are the most important reason for SWTOR's cost, their insane value for their license.DanielDust

Oh, I'm not saying you have to like SWTOR at all. And when I say we "All" have lost our minds, I don't mean people who don't agree with me. "ALL" refers to the gaming developers and us. When a game cost so much money that everything is either going to be a huge success or huge failure, we've already lost. FONV is an exceptional game, but because it didn't reach a certain score on metacritic Obsidian's next project got cut. I guess coming out of an election over here in the States I'm a little burnt out on extreme opinions and positions. So, when my friends and comrades flame about a game they don't like, it gets to be as tiring as being told I need to buy the latest DLC, unlock, or whatever the heck else. May be Greenlight or do it yourself funding will give my rattled nerves a break in 2013 and beyond :?

Even if Bioware is a subisidiary of perhaps a heartless multi-conglomerate. Even if the good doctors there did sell their souls to EA before retiring to the Carribbean and leaving us with the mess. And even if you reaaaaaaally are burnt out on WoW combat mechanics and found SWTOR too similar, it still kind of sucks that SWTOR probably did lose a whoooooole lot of money and it still kind of sucks that talented people like Daniel Erickson are now in limbo. Again, when everything has to be a huge success or it's a huge failure, we've already lost. But no, I don't blame you for not liking it but the vocal minority who flame things they don't like are sometimes as exhausting as EA's marketing.

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#7 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

SWTOR is a good game for 15 year olds.

jakes456

That's a good way to put it.

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#8 Posted by HyperWarlock (3295 posts) -

[QUOTE="jakes456"]

SWTOR is a good game for 15 year olds.

Fire_Wa11

That's a good way to put it.

Does being younger make their interests and opinions irrelevant?

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#9 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

[QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

[QUOTE="jakes456"]

SWTOR is a good game for 15 year olds.

HyperWarlock

That's a good way to put it.

Does being younger make their interests and opinions irrelevant?

Only to those same 15 year olds

Avatar image for Fire_Wa11
#10 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

[QUOTE="HyperWarlock"]

[QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

That's a good way to put it.

wis3boi

Does being younger make their interests and opinions irrelevant?

Only to those same 15 year olds

Woah. Woah. I need to rescind my agreement here. I didn't think he said a good game for 15 year olds. I thought he said a GOOD GAME FOR BEING 15 YEARS OLD. Meaning that they took so long in development with it that by the time the game came out, their market was tired of the game mechanics.

That WOULD have been a GREAT observation. So, I guess we can just attribute that quote to me now. I'm also the guy who came up with, "The proof is in the pudding."

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#11 Posted by C_Glass (259 posts) -

The problem is the TREMENDOUS amount of hype we keep on saturating MMO's with. SWTOR is most definitely an outstanding game, but LIKE ALL GAMES, we play it for like a month or two, and then we move on. In an age where WOW had made such a tremendous mark, we keep on holding every other mmo to the same freakish standards.

SWTOR had too much hype, and failure to live up to hype gives the knee-jerk reaction that the game is rubbish, it's hard not to come across discusions of SWTOR that doesn't descend into hyperbole.

Avatar image for Fire_Wa11
#12 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

SWTOR is a good game for 15 year olds.

jakes456

Not to pick on Jakes here but I just want to make the point that I do NOT agree with this statement and mis-read it. Or as Abe Simpson once said, "Deeng it! I eent fer it! I'm ageenst it!"

Avatar image for HyperWarlock
#13 Posted by HyperWarlock (3295 posts) -

[QUOTE="jakes456"]

SWTOR is a good game for 15 year olds.

Fire_Wa11

Not to pick on Jakes here but I just want to make the point that I do NOT agree with this statement and mis-read it. Or as Abe Simpson once said, "Deeng it! I eent fer it! I'm ageenst it!"

Picking on jakes is only going to fuel his troll train.

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#14 Posted by 8-Bitterness (3707 posts) -
It's a sh**ty ass game and there's no going around it. You can't ignore the things that make the game ridiculously bad and as a consequence call it a good or all-right game.
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#15 Posted by HyperWarlock (3295 posts) -

It's a sh**ty ass game and there's no going around it. You can't ignore the things that make the game ridiculously bad and as a consequence call it a good or all-right game.8-Bitterness

Sure it's not perfect, but I had some fun with it, and now that no sub is required i'll just hop in and out as I please.

Avatar image for attirex
#16 Posted by attirex (1238 posts) -

I know that there are plenty of posts about SWTOR, bioware, media-hype, marketing ploys, day-1 DLC, on and on and if I was Garrison Keillor or Martin Luther King in his "Letter from an Alabama Jail Cell" or whatever, I would wax eloquently about it all, and sum it up nicely. The world would cumulatively read my post on gamespot and we'd all hold hands and change. But since I'm really just lucky to have made it through another year, I will say this.

I tested SWTOR and didn't play it. I'm doing the free-to-play thing and do enjoy it. Does level 1 and 2 of a Sith Warrior compare to the melee combat action of the opening raid of Witcher 2? Hell, no. It's an MMO.

Was it insane to pump as much money as Lucas Arts / EA / Bioware did? Probably. Was the gaming community's visceral reaction to the game (WoW clone or whatever) completely over the top? Yes. It was.

It's a fun game. I am glad I have the option to play it. It makes me sad if they lose money on it. Being a gamer, I'd like them to do well.

Maybe we've all been trained to buy, buy, buy but reality has closed in on us and now we can't, can't, can't. Rather than save our money and not play SWTOR, we rail against it!

We love games so much that we crucify developers who didn't sleep from 2008 to 2010 to bring us "Kotor 3 to 8". But then we "Like" on Facebook a game critic like Yahtzee Croshaw who excoriates every game he touches (which at first is refreshing but) then tells you how the d-mn trilogy will end right there in his review (not fine/bordering on do*chbaggy.)

SWTOR is a good game. Perhaps the MMO pay as you go model doesn't work in a down economy when we all have a boatload of free multiplayer games all over our PCs.

Fire_Wa11
Blog it! (OK, *somebody* had to do it)
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#17 Posted by SKaREO (3161 posts) -

SWTOR is a good game. Perhaps the MMO pay as you go model doesn't work in a down economy when we all have a boatload of free multiplayer games all over our PCs.

Fire_Wa11
If you truly believe this statement, you are in fact insane. I beta tested SWTOR and it was pure garbage game design.
Avatar image for HyperWarlock
#18 Posted by HyperWarlock (3295 posts) -

[QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

SWTOR is a good game. Perhaps the MMO pay as you go model doesn't work in a down economy when we all have a boatload of free multiplayer games all over our PCs.

SKaREO

If you truly believe this statement, you are in fact insane. I beta tested SWTOR and it was pure garbage game design.

different people, different opinions.

words to live by.

Avatar image for SKaREO
#19 Posted by SKaREO (3161 posts) -

[QUOTE="SKaREO"][QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

SWTOR is a good game. Perhaps the MMO pay as you go model doesn't work in a down economy when we all have a boatload of free multiplayer games all over our PCs.

HyperWarlock

If you truly believe this statement, you are in fact insane. I beta tested SWTOR and it was pure garbage game design.

different people, different opinions.

words to live by.

Opinions don't change facts, there Billy.
Avatar image for HyperWarlock
#20 Posted by HyperWarlock (3295 posts) -

[QUOTE="HyperWarlock"]

[QUOTE="SKaREO"] If you truly believe this statement, you are in fact insane. I beta tested SWTOR and it was pure garbage game design.SKaREO

different people, different opinions.

words to live by.

Opinions don't change facts, there Billy.

"it was pure garbage game design"

that is opinion, not fact.

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#21 Posted by -wildflower- (2997 posts) -

I played it for a month or so and won't be going back, f2p or not. The game was generic, forgettable, and its supposed saving grace, the writing, was a few notches below fan fiction. The stories really were quite bad - even by video game standards. As I played it, all I kept thinking was, "they killed SWG for this?"

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#22 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

Opinions don't change facts, there Billy.SKaREO

Uh oh. As long as we are on the topic of Star Wars, MMOs, and Billys. I just want to spend a moment to personally thank the player on the Ebon Hawk server who named his Star Wars character "Billy Butternuts." I was thinking, "You know this would feel way more like Star Wars if there was a guy named Bill Butternuts running a round." And then he showed up with a name straight from Mos Eisley cantina. [/sarcasm]

True story.

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#23 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

[QUOTE="SKaREO"] Opinions don't change facts, there Billy.Fire_Wa11

Uh oh. As long as we are on the topic of Star Wars, MMOs, and Billys. I just want to spend a moment to personally thank the player on the Ebon Hawk server who named his Star Wars character "Billy Butternuts." I was thinking, "You know this would feel way more like Star Wars if there was a guy named Bill Butternuts running a round." And then he showed up with a name straight from Mos Eisley cantina. [/sarcasm]

True story.

'Samuel L Jackson, The Black Bisector' was even better

Avatar image for Fire_Wa11
#24 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

[QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

[QUOTE="SKaREO"] Opinions don't change facts, there Billy.wis3boi

Uh oh. As long as we are on the topic of Star Wars, MMOs, and Billys. I just want to spend a moment to personally thank the player on the Ebon Hawk server who named his Star Wars character "Billy Butternuts." I was thinking, "You know this would feel way more like Star Wars if there was a guy named Bill Butternuts running a round." And then he showed up with a name straight from Mos Eisley cantina. [/sarcasm]

True story.

'Samuel L Jackson, The Black Bisector' was even better

In that player's defense, he thought "Snakes on a Plane" and "Black Snake Moan" WERE Star Wars movies.

On another topic, I think some of the more vitriolic respones here (so miles and miles of creepy sith tombs on Korriban are garbage? really?) are by PVP fans I'm guessing. Opinions vary but I don't expect the PvP to be as satisfying of some other gaming options out there. For an RPG though? Pretty cool. I might have to spend some money on it at some point to get a few more character slots.

Avatar image for SKaREO
#25 Posted by SKaREO (3161 posts) -

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

Uh oh. As long as we are on the topic of Star Wars, MMOs, and Billys. I just want to spend a moment to personally thank the player on the Ebon Hawk server who named his Star Wars character "Billy Butternuts." I was thinking, "You know this would feel way more like Star Wars if there was a guy named Bill Butternuts running a round." And then he showed up with a name straight from Mos Eisley cantina. [/sarcasm]

True story.

Fire_Wa11

'Samuel L Jackson, The Black Bisector' was even better

In that player's defense, he thought "Snakes on a Plane" and "Black Snake Moan" WERE Star Wars movies.

On another topic, I think some of the more vitriolic respones here (so miles and miles of creepy sith tombs on Korriban are garbage? really?) are by PVP fans I'm guessing. Opinions vary but I don't expect the PvP to be as satisfying of some other gaming options out there. For an RPG though? Pretty cool. I might have to spend some money on it at some point to get a few more character slots.

Who ISN'T a fan of PvP? Some socially awkward neck beard who's never kissed a girl before? Competition makes you a real man.
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#27 Posted by FelipeInside (28482 posts) -
The main problem with SWTOR is that people were expecting a lot more on LAUNCH DAY and it didn't deliver all that. On the flip side, it's a good game played as sort of an Online KOTOR, with good story arcs, characters, locations and the whole SW Vibe. As a full-blown MMO it has it's issues, which are being improved on. Depends what you are looking for and what you expect from it.
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#28 Posted by FelipeInside (28482 posts) -
[QUOTE="Fire_Wa11"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

'Samuel L Jackson, The Black Bisector' was even better

SKaREO

In that player's defense, he thought "Snakes on a Plane" and "Black Snake Moan" WERE Star Wars movies.

On another topic, I think some of the more vitriolic respones here (so miles and miles of creepy sith tombs on Korriban are garbage? really?) are by PVP fans I'm guessing. Opinions vary but I don't expect the PvP to be as satisfying of some other gaming options out there. For an RPG though? Pretty cool. I might have to spend some money on it at some point to get a few more character slots.

Who ISN'T a fan of PvP? Some socially awkward neck beard who's never kissed a girl before? Competition makes you a real man.

Can you be any more troll? Not everyone plays games to be competitive and against other people. I'm guessing you were born in the PvP Era (ur probably 15 years old) but what you just said is the most stupid thing I've ever read, but coming from you doesn't surprise me one bit.
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#30 Posted by KHAndAnime (17565 posts) -

I think the reaction to SWTOR shows just how sane gamers really are. What would be insane is playing a WoW clone again and expecting something different (a WoW killer). Most of us have already put our time into WoW, so I assume most of us would like a different type of MMO next time. In my eyes, it doesn't take much creative effort to slap a painfully unoriginal formula over an aging franchise. I'm pretty sure anybody could come up with that idea. What a lot of people don't consider is how much time some of us have already spent playing similar games. If you haven't already poured your life out into similar MMO's, you likely won't find anything particularly dreadful about SWTOR. But many of us already have, so that doesn't put SWTOR in a good spot. I mean, games don't really get any more similar to each other than they do when they're ripping off WOW.

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#31 Posted by Realmjumper (703 posts) -

WoW copied tons from other MMOS. I remember looking at a picture for the radar and UI for Lineage 2 I think and it looked eerily similar to WoW. WoW releasing later. Blizzard copies a lot. Like heroes from battle realms to Warcraft 3.

That's why SWTOR isn't a clone, it just did the same thing WoW didd, copy from other games but at least it added new things.

People just want to hate on SWTOR. It is doing fine and with the F2P model you can play up to level 50 story arc for free. That's like a free game right there.

While people fine excuses to hate I'll be enjoying my cool companions and SWTOR game.

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#32 Posted by IZoMBiEI (6477 posts) -

its a good game for an MMO...but MMOs in general are miles behind a good single player game.

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#33 Posted by mirgamer (2434 posts) -

its a good game for an MMO...but MMOs in general are miles behind a good single player game.

IZoMBiEI
Because they are MMOs and thus require different approach, game mechanics and design? Its not quite the right thing to do...to judge MMOs by the standards of single player games. If we are to judge single players games using MMO standards, they'll come up lacking as well.
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#34 Posted by illmatic87 (17931 posts) -
You seem like an alright guy. For future reference, ignore anything jakes456 posts. - But I think it's just the lack of foresight that hit TOR, with it's prolonged development cycle. It launched when the PC industry was in a transition towards microtransaction models and somewhat of an oversatuation of MMOs shooting for a certain structure.
Maybe we've all been trained to buy, buy, buy but reality has closed in on us and now we can't, can't, can't.Fire_Wa11
I agree with this. in a sense that it's more of a time sensitive issue. Games are a huge time investment, especially for an MMO. Rather than giving a game a try (Really, most games have a fair amount of qualities to them and well worth the time if it reaches the right person); but most prefer not to and would rather just convince themselves, as well as others of why they refuse to play it--by overstating how garbage a game is (and with certain uses here, want a game to fail and use twitch/Xfire as 'proof' to **** on a game they dont like). +Yahtzee's reviews are pure satire/comedy. Take them with a grain of salt. Surprisingly, his best 'reviews' are ones that tend to preach against the choir and his boring ones just tell the hardoar gamer!!11 what they want to hear.
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#35 Posted by the_bi99man (11242 posts) -

A friend of mine played TOR for a while.. had a subscription for a few months, starting at launch. He seemed to like it well enough, but he said the endgame was crap, and he got bored and cancelled his sub not long after reaching the level cap with one character. I refuse to pay a sub fee to play a game, so I don't really do MMO's, but, being a huge Star Wars fan (and having enjoyed KOTOR), I was interested enough that I intended to check it out once it went F2P. My buddy was gonna get back into it too, so I had someone to play with. Then we saw the actual F2P model... the stuff that was available to a "free" account.

Any and all interest... gone forever.

Avatar image for vfibsux
#36 Posted by vfibsux (4497 posts) -

I know that there are plenty of posts about SWTOR, bioware, media-hype, marketing ploys, day-1 DLC, on and on and if I was Garrison Keillor or Martin Luther King in his "Letter from an Alabama Jail Cell" or whatever, I would wax eloquently about it all, and sum it up nicely. The world would cumulatively read my post on gamespot and we'd all hold hands and change. But since I'm really just lucky to have made it through another year, I will say this.

I tested SWTOR and didn't play it. I'm doing the free-to-play thing and do enjoy it. Does level 1 and 2 of a Sith Warrior compare to the melee combat action of the opening raid of Witcher 2? Hell, no. It's an MMO.

Was it insane to pump as much money as Lucas Arts / EA / Bioware did? Probably. Was the gaming community's visceral reaction to the game (WoW clone or whatever) completely over the top? Yes. It was.

It's a fun game. I am glad I have the option to play it. It makes me sad if they lose money on it. Being a gamer, I'd like them to do well.

Maybe we've all been trained to buy, buy, buy but reality has closed in on us and now we can't, can't, can't. Rather than save our money and not play SWTOR, we rail against it!

We love games so much that we crucify developers who didn't sleep from 2008 to 2010 to bring us "Kotor 3 to 8". But then we "Like" on Facebook a game critic like Yahtzee Croshaw who excoriates every game he touches (which at first is refreshing but) then tells you how the d-mn trilogy will end right there in his review (not fine/bordering on do*chbaggy.)

SWTOR is a good game. Perhaps the MMO pay as you go model doesn't work in a down economy when we all have a boatload of free multiplayer games all over our PCs.

Fire_Wa11
How long did you play it before you came in here and lectured us? Ridiculous post.
Avatar image for vfibsux
#37 Posted by vfibsux (4497 posts) -

The problem is the TREMENDOUS amount of hype we keep on saturating MMO's with. SWTOR is most definitely an outstanding game, but LIKE ALL GAMES, we play it for like a month or two, and then we move on. In an age where WOW had made such a tremendous mark, we keep on holding every other mmo to the same freakish standards.

SWTOR had too much hype, and failure to live up to hype gives the knee-jerk reaction that the game is rubbish, it's hard not to come across discusions of SWTOR that doesn't descend into hyperbole.

C_Glass
Hype in itself is overrated. I don't care how much a game is hyped, if it sucks it sucks, if it's good it's good. People blaming hype for a game sucking is silly.
Avatar image for wis3boi
#38 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

A friend of mine played TOR for a while.. had a subscription for a few months, starting at launch. He seemed to like it well enough, but he said the endgame was crap, and he got bored and cancelled his sub not long after reaching the level cap with one character. I refuse to pay a sub fee to play a game, so I don't really do MMO's, but, being a huge Star Wars fan (and having enjoyed KOTOR), I was interested enough that I intended to check it out once it went F2P. My buddy was gonna get back into it too, so I had someone to play with. Then we saw the actual F2P model... the stuff that was available to a "free" account.

Any and all interest... gone forever.

the_bi99man

This. I was like your friend. Beta tested, was there for launch and for a few months after release, and stopped for a bit, then returned for a month or so. End game is absolute sh!t, so is the pvp. The only feature I can say kept me playing was the flashpoints...bringing friends into those was a blast. The rest of the game didn't hold up. I tried the F2P model when it came out and even with a 'returning user premium' type account, I lost just about all the game's features and my HUD was covered in greyed out options with a glowing BUY NOW logo for the cash shop.

Avatar image for Maroxad
#39 Posted by Maroxad (14512 posts) -

SWTOR's problem was the fact that it was the wrong kind of game at the wrong time.

That said, I do think SWTOR had a positive influence on the genre. It may very well have shown devs that we gamers have had enough of the typical WoW clone, and that not even a gigantic budget can save banality no matter what gimmick is used.

Of course, a game doing badly is never a good thing for us gamers, or anyone else really.

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#40 Posted by Fizzman (9892 posts) -
Played the beta, bought it day one and got a three month subscription. Stopped playing it after one month. Hit max level and the MP was awful and the raid content was terrible. It was too much like WoW and I quit WoW because it had gotten so boring and easy. I tried lying to myself and kept saying it was great, but it was really mediocre and it was clear the developers just tried to make Star Wars WoW. F2P mode ensures I never play it again.
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#41 Posted by Nintatterdemon (69 posts) -
You seem to be conflating what some people did with other groups of people who did other things. One can like or not like the game without caring what gaming critics like Yahtzee have to say about anything.
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#42 Posted by Fire_Wa11 (600 posts) -

I can admit when I was wrong, and I could see where some people could see this post as wrong.  And no I'm not necroing as this was MY thread.  It was bothering me that I said something that was kind of wrong, so I am going back now to correct it.  What I am correcting is this.  While walking out the backdoor of a tomb on Korriban to see another huge stretch of the Mars-like home of the Sith made me go, "Wow" was cool, and I made this original post a little too soon.  Once I unlocked/chose the "counterstrike"-type attack, I felt like I was watching the cooldown on my icon rather than watching the action of a fight and haven't played it since.  So, I can admit when I was wrong and my post here is kind of...um...wrong.  I feel better now.