If companies want less pirated PC games...

...They need to lower the prices. Seriously, I'm pretty sure that people who download for free will keep doing so until the prices drop. Because, when a person considers his options, they are:

1. Go and pay $40 for a brand new game

2. Get it absolutely free and play.

I'm pretty sure that the person would go fro option 2, because $40 dollars is pretty steep, I'm not saying it's not worth it, but it's much "cheaper" to just download.

I'm not saying that i actually do it, I'm just stating the facts.

Opinions anyone?

People have their own reasons for pirating, most however probably just pirate to avoid spending on cash, some may pirate due to the game being unavailable at their location or having their local version downgrade, some pirate because they have the same game on another system with the justification "Why but the same game twice". But perhaps only a VERY small % actually pirate a game to try it out and buy it if they like it. Imo piracy is just a scape goat used to blame low sales, a game sells well if its good, I don't exactly get how piracy affects sales at all, the music and movie industry has been pirated since the beginning yet neither has died out, in fact I think piracy actually helped getting them widespread.

Bootlegging happens in every major industry, and video games have been 'pirated' since day one. I believe it is a scapegoat to suddenly point the blame on piracy.

Bootlegging happens in every major industry, and video games have been 'pirated' since day one. I believe it is a scapegoat to suddenly point the blame on piracy.

True_Sounds

If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.JigglyWiggly_

Bootlegging happens in every major industry, and video games have been 'pirated' since day one. I believe it is a scapegoat to suddenly point the blame on piracy.

True_Sounds

this

quite frankly I see it as a publishers inability to adapt to a changing market, or as an excuse for abandoning PC gamers or releasing sub par multiplatform titles that lack the polish PC gamers expect, and console gamers do not expect.

As you said, there has always been piracy and bootlegging. Get over it, and dont screw over the legitimate buyer with invasive, malicious software additions.

there is no excuse for piracy, but its going to happen...whether the game is 10 dollars or 60, its going to happen.

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.tony2077ca

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.JigglyWiggly_

those apps takes days to weeks to develop the majority of time. They dont have the millions of dollars and years of effort, not to mention staffs of dozens to hundreds of people, behind them.

Profit margins in software gaming are extremely narrow, even for successful developers with large publishers.

Unfortunately, there have always been thieves and sissies who are too weak, too lazy, or too stupid to work for what they want.

b

These are the punks who ruin it for everyone else.

'

Companies don't make these spoiled little brats steal - the "pirates" choose to steal, and not only does it hurt the industry, it also hurts the good people of society that pay for their games - you know = the people that keep the developers in business.

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.tony2077ca

It won't die, here's and example:

Say somewhere in the world, a store is selling pc games at $40, so say around 20 people come and buy games, while the others stay at home and download
(hundreds of people), that's already a major loss of the crowd. So the store earns $800 a day. Then, in another store, the same games are selling at $20, and 100 people go there for games because the price is cheaper(and some of the pirates stop downloading and come and buy a few copies), and now this store earns $2000 a day, see the difference?

So basically, big prices = less buyers, small prices = more buyers.

Trust me, when it adds up, cheap = win

:D

Ignorance is bliss.

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.Resistance_Kid

It won't die, here's and example:

Say somewhere in the world, a store is selling pc games at $40, so say around 20 people come and buy games, while the others stay at home and download
(hundreds of people), that's already a major loss of the crowd. So the store earns $800 a day. Then, in another store, the same games are selling at $20, and 100 people go there for games because the price is cheaper(and some of the pirates stop downloading and come and buy a few copies), and now this store earns $2000 a day, see the difference?

So basically, big prices = less buyers, small prices = more buyers.

Trust me, when it adds up, cheap = win

:D

Unfortunately, there have always been thieves and sissies who are too weak, too lazy, or too stupid to work for what they want.

b

These are the punks who ruin it for everyone else.

'

Companies don't make these spoiled little brats steal - the "pirates" choose to steal, and not only does it hurt the industry, it also hurts the good people of society that pay for their games - you know = the people that keep the developers in business.

Born_Lucky

you forgot too poor

not saying it makes it ok, but there isnt always a need to demonize piraters.

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"] if that happened the industry would diemrbojangles25

those apps takes days to weeks to develop the majority of time. They dont have the millions of dollars and years of effort, not to mention staffs of dozens to hundreds of people, behind them.

Profit margins in software gaming are extremely narrow, even for successful developers with large publishers.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"] I don't think so, look at the iphone app store.JigglyWiggly_

those apps takes days to weeks to develop the majority of time. They dont have the millions of dollars and years of effort, not to mention staffs of dozens to hundreds of people, behind them.

Profit margins in software gaming are extremely narrow, even for successful developers with large publishers.

oh I thought you meant like those basic apps, not the full-blown productions (games, google earth, etc).

I am sure those take a lot of effort.

Basic buisness math.

The product costs 60€(Overpriced I know), but only 20,000 buy it. Profits = 60x20,000=1,200 000€

The product costs 25€, but 60,000 buy it. Profits = 25x60,000=1,500 000€

This is all about supply & demand. If you already have a high demand, you may wish to keep the high price (as you're sure that it'll sell well). However if you have a low demand you might want to drop the price, to attract a bigger number of buyers. My logic may be flawed, don't take it too seriously.

look at games like starcraft....its been out for over a decade and people still buy it and play it faithfully. sure it gets pirated, but people still buy it. if the games being produced now were worthy of having a strong following, they would SELL more and would be PIRATED more, but if you give the game something that every gamer wants, they'll end up buying it. if you have to activate the game to play online, and the online was actually good enough to justify the 60usd pricetag, then developers wouldnt have any problems. whats happening is that the games are not living up to their predecessors, and people are less willing to buy them, and more and more games are built for consoles and poorly ported to pc. i know that crysis got pirated alot, but why not, there was nothing to it, all single player with no multiplayer draw, i thnk a month after it hit selves there were only 20 people on crysis wars....pretty poor. look at games like damnation, ive heard on ign that the developers were blaming piracy as to why the sales were bad for that game......had nothing to do with how horrible the game was.

Basic buisness math.

The product costs 60€(Overpriced I know), but only 20,000 buy it. Profits = 60x20,000=1,200 000€

The product costs 25€, but 60,000 buy it. Profits = 25x60,000=1,500 000€

This is all about supply & demand. If you already have a high demand, you may wish to keep the high price (as you're sure that it'll sell well). However if you have a low demand you might want to drop the price, to attract a bigger number of buyers. My logic may be flawed, don't take it too seriously.

dannenissan2

Exactly my point.

[QUOTE="dannenissan2"]

Basic buisness math.

The product costs 60€(Overpriced I know), but only 20,000 buy it. Profits = 60x20,000=1,200 000€

The product costs 25€, but 60,000 buy it. Profits = 25x60,000=1,500 000€

This is all about supply & demand. If you already have a high demand, you may wish to keep the high price (as you're sure that it'll sell well). However if you have a low demand you might want to drop the price, to attract a bigger number of buyers. My logic may be flawed, don't take it too seriously.

Resistance_Kid

Exactly my point.

yea, and with digital distribution there is no packaging costs, so companies can actually afford to do stuff like drop their prices.

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.tony2077ca

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"][QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]If games were all released at 20$ I'd buy a lot more of them. Killing Floor for instance was.Emraldo

true, but the costs of production still stay the same.

So while you might be selling 3x as many copies, its also costing you 3x as much to get them into peoples hands.

Lets say it costs you 15 dollars to make and ship somethng.

If you sell it for 20, thats 5 dollars profit:
5 dollar profit x20k copies sold = 100k profit.

Now lets say you sell it for 60 dollars, but sell only a quarter of the copies:
45 dollars profit x 5k copies sold = 225k profit

This is how it works in the beer business, too. Can and bottle sales are peanuts compared to keg sales simply because there is a lot more profit to be had selling a 100 dollar keg instead of a 5 dollar sixpack

[QUOTE="Emraldo"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] if that happened the industry would diemrbojangles25

true, but the costs of production still stay the same.

So while you might be selling 3x as many copies, its also costing you 3x as much to get them into peoples hands.

Lets say it costs you 15 dollars to make and ship somethng.

If you sell it for 20, thats 5 dollars profit:
5 dollar profit x20k copies sold = 100k profit.

Now lets say you sell it for 60 dollars, but sell only a quarter of the copies:
45 dollars profit x 5k copies sold = 225k profit

This is how it works in the beer business, too. Can and bottle sales are peanuts compared to keg sales simply because there is a lot more profit to be had selling a 100 dollar keg instead of a 5 dollar sixpack

Good point, but i don't think that packaging costs so much, and most pc games are around $40, therefore slicing the profit.

[QUOTE="Emraldo"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] if that happened the industry would diemrbojangles25

true, but the costs of production still stay the same.

So while you might be selling 3x as many copies, its also costing you 3x as much to get them into peoples hands.

Lets say it costs you 15 dollars to make and ship somethng.

If you sell it for 20, thats 5 dollars profit:
5 dollar profit x20k copies sold = 100k profit.

Now lets say you sell it for 60 dollars, but sell only a quarter of the copies:
45 dollars profit x 5k copies sold = 225k profit

This is how it works in the beer business, too. Can and bottle sales are peanuts compared to keg sales simply because there is a lot more profit to be had selling a 100 dollar keg instead of a 5 dollar sixpack

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Emraldo"]

Or they'd sell 3x as many copies, and be just as successful. All a matter of perspective.

Resistance_Kid

true, but the costs of production still stay the same.

So while you might be selling 3x as many copies, its also costing you 3x as much to get them into peoples hands.

Lets say it costs you 15 dollars to make and ship somethng.

If you sell it for 20, thats 5 dollars profit:
5 dollar profit x20k copies sold = 100k profit.

Now lets say you sell it for 60 dollars, but sell only a quarter of the copies:
45 dollars profit x 5k copies sold = 225k profit

This is how it works in the beer business, too. Can and bottle sales are peanuts compared to keg sales simply because there is a lot more profit to be had selling a 100 dollar keg instead of a 5 dollar sixpack

Good point, but i don't think that packaging costs so much, and most pc games are around $40, therefore slicing the profit.

yea I was not refering solely to packaging, though. I meant the entire process of making it.

in school we did a study of Coca Cola. The actual contents of the can only costs $0.05; thats for the corn syrup, water, flavor...the ingredients.

The reasona can of coke cost $0.75 is a lot more complex.

-salaries for employees
-shipping
-packaging
-investment into new equipment
-investment into new factories
-insurance
-recalls
-electric bills
-gas bills
-rent
-other bills
-research and development into new products

After all that is factored in, to create and get that can of coke to your store shelf, it cost them $0.68.

We like to think big corporations are taking us for a big ride and charging more than they need, but the simple fact is that they do not make much profit off of stuff. They rely on their reputation more than anything to sell; that is why its always Coke vs Pepsi. Theyre the two with the reputation. Its never Coke vs Shasta or Coke vs Jolt.

And that is why I feel piracy is bogus: reputation. If a game developer has a good reputation, is known for making quality games, the game will practically sell itself. Piracy is a constant, known factor. The only way to overcome it is to make a good game, get credit, and sell a buttload of copies.

What about people who jail-break their ipods? $1 for an app / game, but they decide to pirate it?

Lowering the pirce won't help too much man, it's just people are cheap and ruthless.

i genuinely believe that if games were half of todays prices, the majority of pirating would continue. This opinion is only formed from my own personal experiences.

I live and work in liverpool UK. In work and uni, i would guess if i got 100 people i know together, that atleast 2/3 these people download for free orbuy pirated games at £5 each or 3 for £10. I have asked lots of these pirate gamers why? They tell me "why pay more for the same game? You must be stupid to pay more than £5!". If an original game cost £10 (a quarter of rrp) and you could get the same experience online and off from a priate copy, they would still buy the pirate copy.

I personaly think games are not a rip off at all. I remember buying n64 games back in the day for more than todays games cost. At the time of n64 i could purchase goods and services for far cheaper than todays prices (due to inflation). However, as the price of everything else has risen, the game prices have fallen.

I can go and buy a game for £29.99. It may turn out that its not to my tastes. To me thats life. I can go out drinking Friday night to town (majority of these pirates im talking about do the same). Night starts 2000 end 0300am. Cost of night = £60 (including taxis, getting into venues and drinks). Problem is teh same with games, not all nights out are of the same quality. In the past 10 years lots of nights out have been a dissapointment for me. Does this stop me and others going out the next week and spending £60? No. Ticket to the liverpool game costs £30. Same price as a video game. Believe me, you arent garaunteed 90 mins of pure excitement and a good result to end with. In relation to other types of entertainment, i think video games are very well priced.

The unlucky part for the games companies is that their product is easy for people to obtain without any chance of being caught. I think these people would take everything they could for free if there was no chance of being caught. All the .... costs to much, im poor (plenty of things in my life i want but cant afford, doesnt make me go out and steal them), developers should make the games better etc are all excuses (the same excuses they would use if they could obtain other goods/servies illegaly for free with 0 chance of ever being caught).

Sadly now days devs just make a promise to the people that found them and say oh well the game will sell 5m copies in the first month. Then they go out and tell the community how their new epic game, have all these new seen before features. Anyway once the game is released people both download and buy it and notice... Holy crap this game suck donkey balls and have so many bugs that the game is unplayable.

So it spread across the internet like a wild fire and then no one buys it (maybe they will download it to check it out due to the fact people say its crap).

Then the devs go "OMG the game is godly!! The reason why it did not sell as good is these damn pirates! GRRRRRRRRR"

Also note that whenever a game sell good and still get pirated alot the devs dont even care... Funny right?

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"] if that happened the industry would diemrbojangles25

those apps takes days to weeks to develop the majority of time. They dont have the millions of dollars and years of effort, not to mention staffs of dozens to hundreds of people, behind them.

Profit margins in software gaming are extremely narrow, even for successful developers with large publishers.

...They need to lower the prices. Seriously, I'm pretty sure that people who download for free will keep doing so until the prices drop. Because, when a person considers his options, they are:

1. Go and pay $40 for a brand new game

2. Get it absolutely free and play.

I'm pretty sure that the person would go fro option 2, because $40 dollars is pretty steep, I'm not saying it's not worth it, but it's much "cheaper" to just download.

I'm not saying that i actually do it, I'm just stating the facts.

Opinions anyone?

Resistance_Kid

so we could say....that laziness is also a reason for piracy!:D lol

money isn´t the only reason. But I agree, the games cost too much. :(

if you can't afford something, it means you're not supposed to own it.

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"][QUOTE="tony2077ca"] if that happened the industry would diemrbojangles25

those apps takes days to weeks to develop the majority of time. They dont have the millions of dollars and years of effort, not to mention staffs of dozens to hundreds of people, behind them.

Profit margins in software gaming are extremely narrow, even for successful developers with large publishers.

It's 40$? I thought it was still 50$?

In any case, I don't think games are overpriced at all. Most games will last you over 10 hours, compared to a movie or a music CD or just going to a bar... games are actually underpriced. Not that I'd want the prices to go up, but pretty much everything else BUT games are overpriced.

One thing that is annoying about game prices is the fact that if a game is 50$ in US, it's 50€ in Europe. Which is over 70$. The only way for us who live at mainland Europe to get cheap games is to buy them from online stores in UK, such as Amazon and Play. It's annoying that we're getting ripped off and it should change, but probably never will. This is one of the reasons why I support Paradox Interactive, I've seen every game that they've released at retail being sold at 30-35€ at launch.

[QUOTE="Emraldo"]

[QUOTE="tony2077ca"] if that happened the industry would diemrbojangles25

true, but the costs of production still stay the same.

So while you might be selling 3x as many copies, its also costing you 3x as much to get them into peoples hands.

Lets say it costs you 15 dollars to make and ship somethng.

If you sell it for 20, thats 5 dollars profit:
5 dollar profit x20k copies sold = 100k profit.

Now lets say you sell it for 60 dollars, but sell only a quarter of the copies:
45 dollars profit x 5k copies sold = 225k profit

This is how it works in the beer business, too. Can and bottle sales are peanuts compared to keg sales simply because there is a lot more profit to be had selling a 100 dollar keg instead of a 5 dollar sixpack

You are forgetting economics of scale. Some of that $15 is fixed, and will not increase no matter how many games you produce. Things like salaries and the like. No matter how many items you produce, your payroll will remain what it is, you insurance will remain what it is, your heating and utilities will remain what they are, your development costs remain what they are, etc, etc. You will pay more for packaging, media, pressing and distribution, but that is only a portion of the cost, and a small portion compared to your development and support costs. So, if you make 5k copies, they might cost $15 each, if you make 20k copies, they actually will cost less per unit, due to those fixed costs. So now, the cost is more like $12 a copy, or $10 a copy. It's cheaper (on a per unit basis) to produce a larger number of most items.

That's also one of the reasons digital copies are never going to be as cheap as some people think they should be. Yes, they are cutting out the media, packaging and a portion of the distribution costs, but the rest of those costs are still there, still the same. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that the cost of physically distributing the game is a tiny percentage of the actual cost of a game. So, charging full price for a digital download remains fully justified.

Are you 14 years old? There is nothing wrong with $40 at all, I think it's a completely reasonable price tag. When PC games first started coming out, back when you kids were babies, they cost $60-$70 at least. Warcraft was $70, and if I remember correctly, Wing Commander was $80. We're lucky that it's only forty bucks - consolites pay $60 for every game they buy. Unless you're lazy and don't have a job, I see nothing wrong with a measly $40. If you can't afford that much, either find a new hobby or play older games. Either way, stop ruining my passion with your pirating.

$40 is still considered very expensive for people in developing country :D

Again, ignorance is bliss for fools like you.

True_Sounds

$40 is still considered very expensive for people in developing country :D

Yanduan

[QUOTE="True_Sounds"]

Again, ignorance is bliss for fools like you.

RK-Mara