Gaming Graphics jump from 1998-2008 was much greater than 2008-2018?

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Posted by Xtasy26 (5381 posts) 2 months, 30 days ago

Poll: Gaming Graphics jump from 1998-2008 was much greater than 2008-2018? (30 votes)

Yes. 90%
No. 7%
Jump was about equal 3%

As we jump into the new year. I thought it would be interesting to look at graphics quality over the past 20 years. It seems to me the jump from 1998 - 2008 was way, way greater as opposed to 2008 to 2018.

For example Unreal was the Graphics King in 1998 and it looked like this:

No Caption Provided

Compared to 10 years later we have Crysis the graphics king in 2007:

No Caption Provided

Even Far Cry 2 looked pretty good (although not as good as Crysis) 10 years after Unreal came out in 2008:

No Caption Provided

When comparing these two games I see a massive jump in Graphics from 1998 to 2008. However, when we look at 2018, the best looking game Battlefield V with Ray Tracing I don't see the jump as that big.

2018:

No Caption Provided

Yes the reflections with Ray Tracing look better. But the jump is nowhere near as big when comparing Unreal to Crysis or Far Cry 2. I would argue that you would have to look carefully at certain things to see the jump especially when compared to modded version of say Crysis. Agree?

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#1 Edited by Pcmasterrace69 (372 posts) -

The funny part is that when I got xbox 360 I got blown away. (720p small tv and games looked amazing good).

Now in 2019 Im not blown away anymore.

People fight over minor graphical differences as if they were leaps and bounds ahead and then theres me looking at both monitors having a hard time to see the differences.

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#2 Posted by Vaidream45 (1767 posts) -

@pcmasterrace69: agree with you 100%

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#3 Edited by Litchie (23492 posts) -

Definitely. Graphics aren't really being pushed anymore. After Crysis, it still took years after until more games started looking that good. From now on we'll just see continous minor improvements in graphics, so I don't think we'll be wowed in the same way ever again.

Artstyle can still impress, though.

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#4 Posted by kdawg88 (2923 posts) -

You'd need to talk to someone who knows a bit about GPUs and CPUs because hardware is very important here; in fact it's probably the central determinant in the progression of 'graphics' (which we could take to mean level of detail, sense of reality, etc). The irony is that I would not say that developers have become more (or necessarily less) innovative as the graphics factor has become marginally less important.

I also think it's important to look beyond the simple 'level of detail' or 'realism' aspect that we usually think of when we think about graphics and look at the way in which the engine and game assets are used to create an impression on the player. 'Art style' is what I'm referring to. A lot of old games are now, admittedly, looking very out of date but you can tell that the artists used the engine to create a powerful artistic impression on the player, combined with other elements such as sound, music and writing. System Shock 2, Thief, Vagrant Story, Fallout are just a few games that come to mind which have very distinct and effective art styles.

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#5 Edited by warmblur (1978 posts) -

Yes, 1998- 2008 was a bigger jump easily and it's because back then we had AAA PC exclusives and even some third party devs built their games from the ground up on PC to push graphics. Games like Half Life, Max Payne& MP2, Far Cry, HL2, BF2, F.E.A.R. and Crysis back then there was no comprise or console parity. For me this was the golden age of PC gaming upgrading your graphics card back then felt more special you knew you where going to get the most out of it.

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#6 Posted by Iseeitake (8 posts) -

Probably has to do with there also been less UFO sightings :)

On a more serious note the same can be said about cellphone technology.

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#7 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2992 posts) -

As visuals become closer to reality the leap will continue to get smaller. After playing RE2 on a PS4 Pro there are times where it resembles photo realism and this is nowhere close to the most powerful hardware available. We are in the era of diminishing returns.

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#8 Posted by dmb34 (1099 posts) -

Crysis compares well to games coming out today, I think graphics advances have become stagnant due to consoles plus graphics are almost lifelike as it is now

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#9 Posted by harry_james_pot (11407 posts) -

Definitely. That earlier jump was because of programmable shaders being introduced and all the tech added on top of it, but we've gone as far as we can with rasterization really. There will only small improvements each year until ray tracing becomes the default.

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#10 Edited by mastershake575 (8535 posts) -

I really believe the xboxone/ps4 using lowend hardware really stagnated the current game engines of the last 5 or so years (not saying it was the only reason but it was significant).

When the xbox360 came out in 2005 it was using a GPU equivalent to an almost $500 desktop counterpart and it even had unified shaders which PC didn't get till 2006.

Xboxone/PS4 at launch was using a GPU that was literally half as fast as a $135 GPU......... (The 7870XT Tahiti edition was $135 in the 2nd half of 2013).

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#11 Posted by mastershake575 (8535 posts) -

@warmblur said:

Yes, 1998- 2008 was a bigger jump easily and it's because back then we had AAA PC exclusives and even some third party devs built their games from the ground up on PC to push graphics. Games like Half Life, Max Payne& MP2, Far Cry, HL2, BF2, F.E.A.R. and Crysis back then there was no comprise or console parity. For me this was the golden age of PC gaming upgrading your graphics card back then felt more special you knew you where going to get the most out of it.

Very interesting point.

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#12 Edited by RyviusARC (5707 posts) -

If you don't know what to look for the graphical leap is not large.

But if you are aware of the technical differences then there is quite a lot to see in the gap between 2008 and 2018.

Sure you can show Crysis off but only certain sections look ok in Crysis.

The photo you showed of Crysis was a specific modded map with a certain time of day cycle locked to that map that closely resembles the original trailer shown.

I remember trying that modded map of Crysis when it was released and even with the top of the line hardware (at that time) it ran very bad.

There are plenty of spots of Crysis (even modded) that look very rough.

Also most games from 2008 look very dated compared to games of 2018.

I will agree that 1998 to 2008 was a bigger jump though when it comes to easily identifiable changes.

But that is mainly because back in 1998 3d graphical accelerators were a new thing. Most people at that time still ran 3d graphics in software mode on their CPU.

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#13 Posted by Xtasy26 (5381 posts) -
@pcmasterrace69 said:

The funny part is that when I got xbox 360 I got blown away. (720p small tv and games looked amazing good).

Now in 2019 Im not blown away anymore.

People fight over minor graphical differences as if they were leaps and bounds ahead and then theres me looking at both monitors having a hard time to see the differences.

Ha! Maybe that's why I made this thread. Where are those jaw dropping Crysis level graphics or when Unreal was released back in 1998. I am no longer "wowed". It's become a meh.

@warmblur said:

Yes, 1998- 2008 was a bigger jump easily and it's because back then we had AAA PC exclusives and even some third party devs built their games from the ground up on PC to push graphics. Games like Half Life, Max Payne& MP2, Far Cry, HL2, BF2, F.E.A.R. and Crysis back then there was no comprise or console parity. For me this was the golden age of PC gaming upgrading your graphics card back then felt more special you knew you where going to get the most out of it.

I agree with this 100%. PC was first and foremost the platform where developers developed their games around using the latest technology. After about Crysis (actually little before that around 2005-2006) that's when game developers started developing around the lowest common denominator (ie Xbox 360 and PS3) hence no longer focusing on developing for PC first. I remember Games were always using the latest Direct X features ie like in DX 7, DX 8 (when programmable shaders got introduced). But around when DX 10 came out with the 8800 GTX being released in 2006 that's when developers stopped using the latest and greatest DX features. Hence you didn't see that many DX 10 feature enabled games. With DX 11 things got a bit better where some games started using DX 11 features like Tesselation in games like Metro 2033 but DX 11 features were tacked on. Most games still used DX 9 features which was mostly the feature set in Xbox 360 and PS3.

I do 100% agree that was the Golden Age of gaming (not just graphically but gameplay wise). Hence I am still playing games from that era 1998 - 2005.

Graphics upgrades was indeed more special. Remember getting GeForce 7600 GT and playing Far Cry for the first time using Pixel Shader 3.0 with HDR. Was mesmerized by the graphics. :P.

Now with new graphics cards, I no longer get the feeling even with Battlefield 5.

@harry_james_pot said:

Definitely. That earlier jump was because of programmable shaders being introduced and all the tech added on top of it, but we've gone as far as we can with rasterization really. There will only small improvements each year until ray tracing becomes the default.

Completely agree. Hence starting 2001/2002 (2002 especially) that's when you started to get a feeling of how modern games started to take it's form with programmable shaders. 2002 was the first full year where programmable shaders took effect after the release of GeForce 3 in 2001. By 2005 with F.E.A.R. full blown use of programmable shaders were in effect hence you see F.E.A.R. having many similarities graphically with newer modern games. Until Ray Tracing which like you stated will become the next default graphical feature which I believe will happen in the next 10+ years.

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#14 Posted by MK-Professor (4172 posts) -

I have to say two words

diminishing returns...

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#15 Posted by robert_sparkes (2788 posts) -

98-08 was a monumental jump for gaming. We are only just getting the next level this gen with the X.

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#16 Edited by SaintSatan (1984 posts) -

I wouldn't quite say that since we recently had the biggest leap in graphics technology since the 90s, which is HDR.

It's basically diminishing returns at this point though. Graphics nowadays are pretty mind blowing and it's becoming harder and harder to improve upon. We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games. Consoles have legit officially caught up to PC due to better optimization and better adoption of HDR technology. I think the focus for graphics now should be improving VR and getting more HDR on PC.

Graphics are becoming more reliant on the monitor/TV with things like HDR and OLED panels.

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#17 Posted by Doerevolt (41 posts) -

the only major change I see in 10 years is improved texture and world environments

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#18 Posted by MK-Professor (4172 posts) -

@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

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#19 Edited by SaintSatan (1984 posts) -

@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

You're the troll. I own a very high end system (see specs below). PS4 Pro blows most current PC games outta the water. God of War looks better than pretty much all AAA PC releases. It destroys things like Apex Legends in graphics, it's not even remotely close.

HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since the 90s with HD TVs. PC supports it very poorly now which puts consoles at a massive advantage in graphics. PC fanboys just can't stand the fact that a $300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics. 95%+ of my gaming is on PC but I can admit the facts because I own them all and have an HDR screen. I've seen the games first hand running in HDR, you haven't. You can't see HDR in a videos or trailers or screenshots. You need an HDR TV or monitor which you probably do not have.

Don't make dumb ignorant comments on something you know absolutely nothing about.

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#20 Edited by MK-Professor (4172 posts) -
@saintsatan said:
@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

You're the troll. I own a very high end system (see specs below). PS4 Pro blows most current PC games outta the water. God of War looks better than pretty much all AAA PC releases. It destroys things like Apex Legends in graphics, it's not even remotely close.

HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since the 90s with HD TVs. PC supports it very poorly now which puts consoles at a massive advantage in graphics. PC fanboys just can't stand the fact that a $300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics. 95%+ of my gaming is on PC but I can admit the facts because I own them all and have an HDR screen. I've seen the games first hand running in HDR, you haven't. You can't see HDR in a videos or trailers or screenshots. You need an HDR TV or monitor which you probably do not have.

Don't make dumb ignorant comments on something you know absolutely nothing about.

Are you serious? HDR is not even an improvement in graphics let alone being the biggest leap LOL, I mean if you are so keen to change the esthetics of the game just use SweetFX you will get more drastic results.

If I want PS4 Pro(or X1X) level of graphics and performance I will just use a low-end gpu like the RX580 or GTX1060. Saying that "$300 console can match a $5,000 PC" is just pure trolling. You should post on SW, there you will find many console fanboys like yourself saying X game on PS4 look better than Y game on PC, and yet they don't dare to compare Y game on PC vs the same Y game on PS4. BTW God of War doesn't look better than all AAA PC releases, this is only your opinion.

I have HDR TV but I have HDR turn off because I don't like the end result while I waching movies, you can make the most out of your tv by calibrating to your personal taste.

Like I said HDR is more of a personal taste, some people like it and others don't, personally I don't plan on getting an HDR monitor(probably I will never buy one) I just don't like the idea of blasting peaks of up to 1200 nits in front of my face, there is a good reason why I set all my monitors at 100 nits.

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#21 Edited by SaintSatan (1984 posts) -

@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:
@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

You're the troll. I own a very high end system (see specs below). PS4 Pro blows most current PC games outta the water. God of War looks better than pretty much all AAA PC releases. It destroys things like Apex Legends in graphics, it's not even remotely close.

HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since the 90s with HD TVs. PC supports it very poorly now which puts consoles at a massive advantage in graphics. PC fanboys just can't stand the fact that a $300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics. 95%+ of my gaming is on PC but I can admit the facts because I own them all and have an HDR screen. I've seen the games first hand running in HDR, you haven't. You can't see HDR in a videos or trailers or screenshots. You need an HDR TV or monitor which you probably do not have.

Don't make dumb ignorant comments on something you know absolutely nothing about.

Are you serious? HDR is not even an improvement in graphics let alone being the biggest leap LOL, I mean if you are so keen to change the esthetics of the game just use SweetFX you will get more drastic results.

If I want PS4 Pro(or X1X) level of graphics and performance I will just use a low-end gpu like the RX580 or GTX1060. Saying that "$300 console can match a $5,000 PC" is just pure trolling. You should post on SW, there you will find many console fanboys like yourself saying X game on PS4 look better than Y game on PC, and yet they don't dare to compare Y game on PC vs the same Y game on PS4. BTW God of War doesn't look better than all AAA PC releases, this is only your opinion.

I have HDR TV but I have HDR turn off because I don't like the end result while I waching movies, you can make the most out of your tv by calibrating to your personal taste.

Like I said HDR is more of a personal taste, some people like it and others don't, personally I don't plan on getting an HDR monitor(probably I will never buy one) I just don't like the idea of blasting peaks of up to 1200 nits in front of my face, there is a good reason why I set all my monitors at 100 nits.

lol

I don't even know how to respond to this. HDR looks better, it's not an "opinion" nor personal taste. HDR greatly increases contrast, colors, and details. This is a fact. Not an opinion. Not personal taste. If it's too bright lower the brightness a bit? It's still better than no HDR. What's next from you? HD looks better than ultra HD?

Or maybe you have a garbage HDR TV where they just slapped HDR on the box and fooled you? What's your TV model?

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#22 Edited by SaintSatan (1984 posts) -

@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:
@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

You're the troll. I own a very high end system (see specs below). PS4 Pro blows most current PC games outta the water. God of War looks better than pretty much all AAA PC releases. It destroys things like Apex Legends in graphics, it's not even remotely close.

HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since the 90s with HD TVs. PC supports it very poorly now which puts consoles at a massive advantage in graphics. PC fanboys just can't stand the fact that a $300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics. 95%+ of my gaming is on PC but I can admit the facts because I own them all and have an HDR screen. I've seen the games first hand running in HDR, you haven't. You can't see HDR in a videos or trailers or screenshots. You need an HDR TV or monitor which you probably do not have.

Don't make dumb ignorant comments on something you know absolutely nothing about.

HDR is not even an improvement in graphics

And this is among the dumbest things I've ever heard on these forums. You're clearly a troll or totally ignorant to what HDR is and does. If you had an HDR TV like you claim, which is obviously a blatant lie, you'd know HDR makes an insane difference in graphics. Troll harder brah. It's not like this isn't common knowledge or anything or something that can be easily tested. I've turned HDR off/on in GoW and other games and the difference in graphics is mind blowing. There's twice as much details due to the huge increase in contrast and colors. You can continue trolling now...

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#23 Posted by MK-Professor (4172 posts) -

@saintsatan

We all know who is the troll here, the guy that said:

HDR is biggest leap in graphics technology since the 90s

PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

$300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics.

HDR is just overrated get over it, some people like it and others don't or they don't care...

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#24 Posted by SaintSatan (1984 posts) -

@MK-Professor said:

@saintsatan

We all know who is the troll here, the guy that said:

HDR is biggest leap in graphics technology since the 90s

PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

$300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics.

HDR is just overrated get over it, some people like it and others don't or they don't care...

"some people prefer worse visual quality"

Okay man, you win.

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#25 Posted by Xtasy26 (5381 posts) -
@saintsatan said:
@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

You're the troll. I own a very high end system (see specs below). PS4 Pro blows most current PC games outta the water. God of War looks better than pretty much all AAA PC releases. It destroys things like Apex Legends in graphics, it's not even remotely close.

HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since the 90s with HD TVs. PC supports it very poorly now which puts consoles at a massive advantage in graphics. PC fanboys just can't stand the fact that a $300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics. 95%+ of my gaming is on PC but I can admit the facts because I own them all and have an HDR screen. I've seen the games first hand running in HDR, you haven't. You can't see HDR in a videos or trailers or screenshots. You need an HDR TV or monitor which you probably do not have.

Saying $300 console can match $5,000 PC is SW level troll. Yes, I do have an HDR TV and can to certain extent see the difference.

I wouldn't say HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since 90s. What about when programmable shaders capable GPU's came out in 2001? Developers could start then to actually make games look better than ever which we continue to this day to the fact that programmable shaders has now become standard since the it's release in the early 2000's. Not to mention it's addition to it with programmable shaders 3.0 + HDR support in games like Far Cry and later in Half-Life 2. I would consider those to be much bigger jump in graphics then just "HDR".

What you are talking about the gap between consoles and PC games in terms of graphic, yes, that has to a degree decreased especially in the last couple of years and with release of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X due to them having more powerful GPU's. And due to the fact that developers are developing games with the lowest common denominator for which the bar has risen due to the fact of more powerful GPU's in the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Consoles still struggle to hold 4K 60 FPS in all games.

I would say Ray Tracing is the next biggest jump in graphics more so then HDR due to the fact what Ray Tracing can do.

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#26 Edited by SaintSatan (1984 posts) -
@Xtasy26 said:
@saintsatan said:
@MK-Professor said:
@saintsatan said:

We are at the point where a PS4 Pro with an HDR TV is better looking than 99% of PC games.

troll posts like this belong to SW

You're the troll. I own a very high end system (see specs below). PS4 Pro blows most current PC games outta the water. God of War looks better than pretty much all AAA PC releases. It destroys things like Apex Legends in graphics, it's not even remotely close.

HDR is the biggest leap in graphics since the 90s with HD TVs. PC supports it very poorly now which puts consoles at a massive advantage in graphics. PC fanboys just can't stand the fact that a $300 console can match a $5,000 PC in terms of graphics. 95%+ of my gaming is on PC but I can admit the facts because I own them all and have an HDR screen. I've seen the games first hand running in HDR, you haven't. You can't see HDR in a videos or trailers or screenshots. You need an HDR TV or monitor which you probably do not have.

Saying $300 console can match $5,000 PC is SW level troll. Yes, I do have an HDR TV and can to certain extent see the difference.

I dunno man, you guys must not have good TV's. The difference with HDR on/off on mine is absolutely mind blowing. It's not a slight difference on mine like you seem to claim with your TV, it's a freakin massive difference. HDR varies greatly from TV to TV. A $1,000 TV will come nowhere remotely close to the HDR of a $5,000 TV. Do you have Dolby Vision HDR or just HDR10? Do you have an OLED TV? That's where HDR shines because OLED can do perfect blacks and each pixel has its own illumination rather than a backlight so colors do not bleed onto one another.

Here's a video of my TV, make sure you turn on 4K on YouTube. Ofc it's hard to tell HDR quality through a video but midway through you can see how bright it gets while the rest of the screen stays black. If your TV can't put out near blinding light that lights up an entire room like this then you probably don't have great HDR.

(the game shown is Tetris Effect)

Loading Video...

Also I agree about Ray-Tracing, it's a really big leap. I've seen a lot of on/off videos of it on YouTube with Metro Exodus and it's really awesome. That being said I still think HDR makes a far bigger difference because rather than effecting just lighting, HDR effects the lighting and colors and contrast. HDR is a hardware tech leap so it's a bit difference to compare it to software but man HDR is much better than I ever expected. I'm really happy I upgraded my TV even though I had just bought one a year beforehand.

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#27 Posted by comp_atkins (35512 posts) -

moore's law is over

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#28 Posted by firedrakes (1932 posts) -

@saintsatan: correct also their no standard for 4k gaming all. for video yeah but thats its.

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#29 Posted by Xtasy26 (5381 posts) -

@saintsatan: I have a Samsung 4K HDR. Don’t know the model. Yes, I see the difference with HDR. But it’s no where near the jump that say programmable shaders did to Gaming is my point.

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#30 Posted by VagrantSnow (226 posts) -

Jumping to 3D certainly opened up a lot more opportunities for what artists and designers could do. At this point, graphics and textures are at a point where it has become an exercise on how shiny a puddle you can make.

I would say VR provides a similar opportunity that 3D did way back then but unfortunately VR isn't nearly as accessible or as marketable as 3D games were.