Diablo 3 level cap increased to 160 and other massive changes

I still won't be picking the game back up. Blizzard still has no clue that core stats are boring and are not going to make the game fun. When are we getting off the wall skill affixes again? Weresin or werebarb anyone? If I want WoW stat progression, I'll play WoW.

AlexZor

Well I just looked at the whole thing on Bnet about the changes in the patch, and that's another thing. High level items are getting major boosts to pretty much everything, including stat affixes. Also, I love the idea of more levels that will add more to the base of core stats. As it is, core stats rely way too much on items. I mean, they're supposed to, in a game like this, but not quite that much, I don't think. I remember I had a level 99 barb in D2, and his core stats were so high I could take off all my equipment, and go around naked punching monsters. Sure, I couldn't take down any real bosses like that, but I could totally hold up against most regular monsters. In D3, my barb has like over a thousand strength, but almost all of it is from items. If I take off all my equipment, my core stats are so sh!tty, I'd get destroyed by non-elites in normal difficulty (probably, haven't actually tried). Having more levels to increase core stats will mean that as you continue leveling up while grinding for gold/gear in Inferno, you'll be getting at least a little bit stronger as you get more xp, even if you don't find a good item to upgrade to. Plus, having MF increase with Paragon levels is sweet. I don't have very good MF gear as it is, and I can't afford to drop anything else to get more, lest I get destroyed even harder in Act 3.

[QUOTE="AlexZor"]

I still won't be picking the game back up. Blizzard still has no clue that core stats are boring and are not going to make the game fun. When are we getting off the wall skill affixes again? Weresin or werebarb anyone? If I want WoW stat progression, I'll play WoW.

the_bi99man

Well I just looked at the whole thing on Bnet about the changes in the patch, and that's another thing. High level items are getting major boosts to pretty much everything, including stat affixes. Also, I love the idea of more levels that will add more to the base of core stats. As it is, core stats rely way too much on items. I mean, they're supposed to, in a game like this, but not quite that much, I don't think. I remember I had a level 99 barb in D2, and his core stats were so high I could take off all my equipment, and go around naked punching monsters. Sure, I couldn't take down any real bosses like that, but I could totally hold up against most regular monsters. In D3, my barb has like over a thousand strength, but almost all of it is from items. If I take off all my equipment, my core stats are so sh!tty, I'd get destroyed by non-elites in normal difficulty (probably, haven't actually tried). Having more levels to increase core stats will mean that as you continue leveling up while grinding for gold/gear in Inferno, you'll be getting at least a little bit stronger as you get more xp, even if you don't find a good item to upgrade to. Plus, having MF increase with Paragon levels is sweet. I don't have very good MF gear as it is, and I can't afford to drop anything else to get more, lest I get destroyed even harder in Act 3.

I'm not sure I understand your point or if you get mine. The whole game is way too reliant on core stats as a progression tool. They got rid of skill points for everything and, because of this, there is no room for anything else but unique loot that has, so far, been the most boring aspect in this game. They missed the point of Diablo. It's not fun to gain only +20 more STR on item after hours and hours of play. This paragon patch will do nothing for that. Core stats are not going to fix the glaring, overly mentioned, in your face problem that they seem to be ignoring. Unless legendaries start appearing more like D2's runewords or set items give more than percentages to class locked skills, the game will continue to be flavorless in my eyes.

hohoho time to login again!

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

The gamplay is fun, playing with my friends was fun, having to break down and buy gear to progress everytime was not. Farming for loot was not fun, hardly any good gear dropped ever. It was fun enough where if they fix the gear I will go back and play with my friends. Hence why I said I will refrain from judging till I put time in to the patch to see if they actually fixed gear drops.A loot farming game with bad loot gets old, I dont know how many times I have to say that to get it past your thick skull.The game itself was fun, staying just to farm is not right now. Cant break it down any more then that for you.

ChubbyGuy40

So because one mechanic of the game wasn't suited to your liking, the game is a terrible abomination and the developers should feel bad. How was gear dropping broken when it worked (almost) exactly as the developer intended it to? You (and many others) went into this game with the wrong mindset. You were focused on beating the game, not getting loot. So when you hit a block in Inferno, you blamed Blizzard for designing it in a way that didn't suit you. That is why you bought loot, instead of farming it for yourself. You gave up because you weren't getting your way of beating the game.

I thought 160 was a troll attempt. Perhaps later i'll play it again. (I just wonder how many hours for level 160. 1 billion?).

Masculus

With the NVx5 buff, 1.4 million level 63 kills. 10.5 billion XP. It's gonna take quite a long time.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="AlexZor"]

I still won't be picking the game back up. Blizzard still has no clue that core stats are boring and are not going to make the game fun. When are we getting off the wall skill affixes again? Weresin or werebarb anyone? If I want WoW stat progression, I'll play WoW.

AlexZor

Well I just looked at the whole thing on Bnet about the changes in the patch, and that's another thing. High level items are getting major boosts to pretty much everything, including stat affixes. Also, I love the idea of more levels that will add more to the base of core stats. As it is, core stats rely way too much on items. I mean, they're supposed to, in a game like this, but not quite that much, I don't think. I remember I had a level 99 barb in D2, and his core stats were so high I could take off all my equipment, and go around naked punching monsters. Sure, I couldn't take down any real bosses like that, but I could totally hold up against most regular monsters. In D3, my barb has like over a thousand strength, but almost all of it is from items. If I take off all my equipment, my core stats are so sh!tty, I'd get destroyed by non-elites in normal difficulty (probably, haven't actually tried). Having more levels to increase core stats will mean that as you continue leveling up while grinding for gold/gear in Inferno, you'll be getting at least a little bit stronger as you get more xp, even if you don't find a good item to upgrade to. Plus, having MF increase with Paragon levels is sweet. I don't have very good MF gear as it is, and I can't afford to drop anything else to get more, lest I get destroyed even harder in Act 3.

I'm not sure I understand your point or if you get mine. The whole game is way too reliant on core stats as a progression tool. They got rid of skill points for everything and, because of this, there is no room for anything else but unique loot that has, so far, been the most boring aspect in this game. They missed the point of Diablo. It's not fun to gain only +20 more STR on item after hours and hours of play. This paragon patch will do nothing for that. Core stats are not going to fix the glaring, overly mentioned, in your face problem that they seem to be ignoring. Unless legendaries start appearing more like D2's runewords or set items give more than percentages to class locked skills, the game will continue to be flavorless in my eyes.

Hmm. Maybe I don't quite get your point. Haha. Either way, they're definitely at least trying to address that with this patch. I was reading the recent news post about it, and they showed some direct examples of how legendaries are getting buffed, and that's exactly it. Legendaries are getting way bigger stat buffs, and a bunch of other completely unique effects (like summoning a demon to fight alongside you, who gets fire chains, attached to your character). Plus they're specifically said they're adding more sets, and the new ones will have much more effects/powers.

patch changelog is out and looks like the patch is coming tomorrow.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6368188147#1

love most of the changes except that they are making the game easier again. sigh. so much for the promise of the game will be hard and stuff before the game release.

this is the change im talking about.

• Act III and Act IV
  
  • Normal monster health increased by 10%
  • Elite monster health reduced by 2.5%
  • Overall damage done by all monsters reduced by 15%

I just can't bring myself to care. Such an insubstantial game for 60 bucks, defintely a puchase I regret. Some titles I can appreciate having played in retrospect, the mindless slog of Diablo 3 is not among them.

Any other developer and D3 would have gone for 20 bucks on steam at release and been on sale for 5 in 2 months.

Always amusing to see the blizzard defence force and the haters go at each others throats in these threads.

I'll probably pick it up around xmas time during a black friday sale or something.

Both sides are full of sh!t though, you don't play a game for hundreds of hours if there isn't something worthwhile at the core, and on the other hand it isn't without serious issues if you nearly triple the level cap in a patch.

I just can't bring myself to care. Such an insubstantial game for 60 bucks, defintely a puchase I regret. Some titles I can appreciate having played in retrospect, the mindless slog of Diablo 3 is not among them.

Any other developer and D3 would have gone for 20 bucks on steam at release and been on sale for 5 in 2 months.

with_teeth26

Any ETA when 1.4 comes out?MythPro1

Tomorrow.

I just can't bring myself to care. Such an insubstantial game for 60 bucks, defintely a puchase I regret. Some titles I can appreciate having played in retrospect, the mindless slog of Diablo 3 is not among them.

Any other developer and D3 would have gone for 20 bucks on steam at release and been on sale for 5 in 2 months.

with_teeth26

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

You still have no idea what the hell you are talking about .My friends and I farmed till we were blue in the face, how else do you think i have so many hrs, dosent take long to get to 60, STFU already.

Advid-Gamer

I have plenty idea what the hell I'm talking about. From the sound of it, you were too busy buying things from the AH to actually play the game.

I didn't stop playing Diablo 3 due to lack of levels.JKnaperek

I love the idea behind addressing small issues and ignoring huge ones. I'm going to give the patch a try, but I'm not expecting much. The game is so poorly made it hurts.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

I just can't bring myself to care. Such an insubstantial game for 60 bucks, defintely a puchase I regret. Some titles I can appreciate having played in retrospect, the mindless slog of Diablo 3 is not among them.

Any other developer and D3 would have gone for 20 bucks on steam at release and been on sale for 5 in 2 months.

Wasdie

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

I'm going to be positive and say most everything about 1.04 is a step in the right direction. I don't think the biggest issue about the game was addressed though which was itemization(yes I know they buffed legendaries). There were too many times I'd do an act 2 or if I felt masochistic act 3 run with aboslutely nothing to show for it except a slight bump in my gold reserve. The paragon levels address this issue and was much needed, but would it kill blizzard to straight up buff legendary/set drop rates? Also, tighten up stat budgets for ilvl 63 items at least.

Sure, I may be getting ahead of myself. The MF tweak in conjunction with paragon levels may secretly address these problems, but I seriously doubt it. Blizzard would have out right said something so the masses would be happy. I'll try the patch out of course, but if it is anything like my previous experience of 200+ hours with only 4 legendaries to show for it, myself and most other players will most likely just quit again.

BTW, I beat inferno with my DH pre 1.03 and post 1.03 on my barb, so there isn't much left for me except to farm. I know some people still have inferno to conquer, but I have done it twice and the grind itself needs to be worthwhile for me to continue playing.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

I just can't bring myself to care. Such an insubstantial game for 60 bucks, defintely a puchase I regret. Some titles I can appreciate having played in retrospect, the mindless slog of Diablo 3 is not among them.

Any other developer and D3 would have gone for 20 bucks on steam at release and been on sale for 5 in 2 months.

with_teeth26

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

Wasdie

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

Wasdie

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

They may have reinvigorated genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

I just can't bring myself to care. Such an insubstantial game for 60 bucks, defintely a puchase I regret. Some titles I can appreciate having played in retrospect, the mindless slog of Diablo 3 is not among them.

Any other developer and D3 would have gone for 20 bucks on steam at release and been on sale for 5 in 2 months.

with_teeth26

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Well, I agree that diablo 3 is trash. Other than the amazing-looking cutscenes, I can't find anything to really like about it. Starcraft 2 is really good as far as competitive RTS goes though. You can't just throw away the good things that the company has done because they made a stinker.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

CLearly you've never played a Diablo game before.

Wasdie

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Toxic-Seahorse

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

Toxic-Seahorse

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

well said.

[QUOTE="Toxic-Seahorse"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

Ravenshout

[QUOTE="Chiddaling"]Seems great and all. But I just want NEW content to play. The game is so short, and doing the same quests are over and over again seems tedious. Maybe that's just how Diablo games are. I haven't played Diablo 2 in almost a decade, so I guess farming is what this game is all about.Wasdie

That's how Diablo games are. The difference being in Diablo 2 you could keep running the same zones over and over easily. The removal of the lobby system really hurt that.

I remember doing Baal runs for dozens of hours to level up characters and grind out loot.

Pshhh, Baal runs were nothing. It was all about the Cow level. Always fun when you got near the king and everyone panics and would leave the party so that they wouldn't get screwed when some idiot kills the king.

On point, this patch is great and I can't wait for it to release.

Appreciate the art style but jaggies around the character? Nasty FXAA. Blurriness all over.Elann2008

Nvidia added MSAA that overrides the FXAA.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

with_teeth26

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

They may have reinvented genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

Maybe you should lend the games a few more hours of your time. They generally aren't story driven games, but the potential for long, smooth play sessions is there.

On topic: Can't wait for the patch. As a Witch Doctor I felt that I wasn't doing enough damage in relation to my gear, simply due to the percentages of the skills. It will be nice to do a little more hurt and feel like I'm working towards something.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

NAPK1NS

They may have reinvented genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

You are right. I changed that one word and stand by the rest of my post. I spent a good 50-60 hours with Starcraft 2, Its not fun. Its tense and rewarding, but its not fun. WiC, Dawn of War/2 and Company of Heroes are tense, rewarding, and also incredibly fun. Polish and Balance aren't everything, and thats pretty much all SCII has going for it.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

You'd be right. Never will again either.

In fact, I'm thinking I'll just avoid Blizzard games in general. They are generic and dull.

with_teeth26

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

They may have reinvented genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

You mean their recent game, Diablo 3, which for the past 10 years we the community begged them to bascially remake Diablo 2.

Seriously, I have no idea what this community believed about Diablo 3 before it launched, but I would say 99% of the feedback Blizzard got was for them to make a Diablo 2 clone. Now everybody is whining there isn't enough new content and it's just boring.

We all forgot that it took an expansion pack and a half a dozen patches for Diablo 2 to have the replayability it has today. Now people are extremely impatient as they completely rebuilt everything from scratch and tried a completely different approach to the entire character building and looting systems while keeping the core, isometric action there.

Except for the loot system not working and them stupdily nerfing everything shortly after launch, we got exactly what we wanted. Then we realized we didn't want just a Diablo 2 clone, we wanted something new. Too bad we didn't know that 3 years ago when they first announced Diablo 3 and everybody instantly jumped on Blizzard to make the graphics look more like Diablo 2 and the game to play more like Diablo 2.

Now with the 1.04 patch it seems that they are going to fix pretty much every major issue with the game, or at least try to fix the issues. This is very typical Blizzard and I thought people knew this about them.

There is a reason I didn't hype Diablo 3 that much. I was only kind of excited for it because I knew exactly the hardships the series has at launch. A 100% loot based game with a player driven economy is almost impossible to balance before launch. You need to let the players get ahold of the content and then build their own economy based off of it. From there you tweak it. That's exactly what happened here for the end game content and loot grind.

Diablo 3 is probably their most "generic" game to date, but you can't blame the people who define the entire isometric ARPG genre for keeping it the formula pretty much the same.

That would be like asking Valve to re-imagine CounterStrike with a new setting, different game modes, different guns, and completely different style of play.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Generic and dull?

So WoW and Starcraft are generic and dull? WoW, which revolutionized MMOs in 2005 (yes, it's that old) and SC2 which is the biggest RTS on the planet right now and completely reinvigorated competitive video games, are now both generic because Diablo 3 failed to live up to the AAAAA expectations...

I really hate PC gamers sometimes.

Wasdie

They may have reinvented genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

Except for the loot system not working and them stupdily nerfing everything shortly after launch, we got exactly what we wanted. Then we realized we didn't want just a Diablo 2 clone, we wanted something new. Too bad we didn't know that 3 years ago when they first announced Diablo 3 and everybody instantly jumped on Blizzard to make the graphics look more like Diablo 2 and the game to play more like Diablo 2.

Now with the 1.04 patch it seems that they are going to fix pretty much every major issue with the game, or at least try to fix the issues. This is very typical Blizzard and I thought people knew this about them.

No, we didn't get what we wanted. We got a game that introduced a real money mechanic, which in effect ruined the entire loot system. And the loot system is the most important factor of the older Diablo games. We got a game with a leveling system that's as dumbed down as it can possibly be. There are no decisions, no "builds" as it were. There's no reason to come back again to try a different version of the same class. And all you have now are special attacks. You don't even get to use the weapons you equip, which is mind bogglingly stupid. On top of that, Diablo 3 has some of the worst writing I've ever come across in a video game. None of that is what I wanted.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

They may have reinvented genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

xLittlekillx

Except for the loot system not working and them stupdily nerfing everything shortly after launch, we got exactly what we wanted. Then we realized we didn't want just a Diablo 2 clone, we wanted something new. Too bad we didn't know that 3 years ago when they first announced Diablo 3 and everybody instantly jumped on Blizzard to make the graphics look more like Diablo 2 and the game to play more like Diablo 2.

Now with the 1.04 patch it seems that they are going to fix pretty much every major issue with the game, or at least try to fix the issues. This is very typical Blizzard and I thought people knew this about them.

No, we didn't get what we wanted. We got a game that introduced a real money mechanic, which in effect ruined the entire loot system. And the loot system is the most important factor of the older Diablo games. We got a game with a leveling system that's as dumbed down as it can possibly be. There are no decisions, no "builds" as it were. There's no reason to come back again to try a different version of the same class. And all you have now are special attacks. You don't even get to use the weapons you equip, which is mind bogglingly stupid. On top of that, Diablo 3 has some of the worst writing I've ever come across in a video game. None of that is what I wanted.

So you prefer dumping all of your stats into vitality and following cookie cutter builds? That's what Diablo 2 boiled down to no matter how you try to spin it. There is no way around that.

I even said the looting system has some big issues. Those are being addressed. Diablo 2 suffered from its own issues at launch as well. Loot is almost impossible to do right the first time. When 99% of your game revolves around loot, it makes it even more difficult. If you didn't expect it to take several patches for them to sort it all out and balance it with the new auction house, then you were just being delusional.

With this newest patch they are buffing the crap out of all of the unused skills to give players incentives to change up their playstyle. Depending on the skills they pick will also influence the loot they need for their build.

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Except for the loot system not working and them stupdily nerfing everything shortly after launch, we got exactly what we wanted. Then we realized we didn't want just a Diablo 2 clone, we wanted something new. Too bad we didn't know that 3 years ago when they first announced Diablo 3 and everybody instantly jumped on Blizzard to make the graphics look more like Diablo 2 and the game to play more like Diablo 2.

Now with the 1.04 patch it seems that they are going to fix pretty much every major issue with the game, or at least try to fix the issues. This is very typical Blizzard and I thought people knew this about them.

Wasdie

No, we didn't get what we wanted. We got a game that introduced a real money mechanic, which in effect ruined the entire loot system. And the loot system is the most important factor of the older Diablo games. We got a game with a leveling system that's as dumbed down as it can possibly be. There are no decisions, no "builds" as it were. There's no reason to come back again to try a different version of the same class. And all you have now are special attacks. You don't even get to use the weapons you equip, which is mind bogglingly stupid. On top of that, Diablo 3 has some of the worst writing I've ever come across in a video game. None of that is what I wanted.

So you prefer dumping all of your stats into vitality and following cookie cutter builds? That's what Diablo 2 boiled down to no matter how you try to spin it. There is no way around that.

I even said the looting system has some big issues. Those are being addressed. Diablo 2 suffered from its own issues at launch as well. Loot is almost impossible to do right the first time. When 99% of your game revolves around loot, it makes it even more difficult. If you didn't expect it to take several patches for them to sort it all out and balance it with the new auction house, then you were just being delusional.

With this newest patch they are buffing the crap out of all of the unused skills to give players incentives to change up their playstyle. Depending on the skills they pick will also influence the loot they need for their build.

Uh, what? No, I like actually, you know, having input in the development of my character. Because, you know, it's an rpg. I don't understand why you're actually trying to tell me that it's a bad thing to be able to develop your character.

And the looting system doesn't have big issues. It's just bad. It's a bad system that needs to be reworked entirely in a way that works as if the money house isn't even there.

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"][QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

They may have reinvented genres, but their (recent) games have no soul. They are the German engineers of the video game world. I can respect that some of their games are great (not D3), I just don't enjoy them, largely due to the crap writing and complete dirth of atmosphere.

Don't play MMO's(Planetside 2 might change that) and I'd much much rather play one of Relic's RTS games balance issues and all.

I wasn't expecting D3 to be great, bought it on a whim because the beta was kinda fun but it just never changed things up.

with_teeth26

You are right. I changed that one word and stand by the rest of my post. I spent a good 50-60 hours with Starcraft 2, Its not fun. Its tense and rewarding, but its not fun. WiC, Dawn of War/2 and Company of Heroes are tense, rewarding, and also incredibly fun. Polish and Balance aren't everything, and thats pretty much all SCII has going for it.

This patch looks amazing and I can not wait to try it.

Uh, what? No, I like actually, you know, having input in the development of my character. Because, you know, it's an rpg. I don't understand why you're actually trying to tell me that it's a bad thing to be able to develop your character.

And the looting system doesn't have big issues. It's just bad. It's a bad system that needs to be reworked entirely in a way that works as if the money house isn't even there.

xLittlekillx

The thing is, Diablo is a pure loot based game. Stats are meaningless when the loot makes up 98% of your character's stats. Other games that aren't based around loot require the stats because it actually matters for the development of your character. In Diablo, it doesn't. You just have to make sure you had enough strength to wield the weapons and armor and the rest you dumped into vitality. You got the vast majority of your stats from your armor.

I would agree with you about the character development if that character development actually played any role in Diablo 2. It didn't. As for the skills, the only viable way to play on hell difficulty was to use cookie cutter builds. They tried to work around that with the current skill system.

Patch is live. attirex

I found that Dawn of War 2 was a step back from everything's Relic done up to that point. It is not even an RTS (IMO) but an RTT (real time tactics), since you spend more time controlling individual units and focusing on individual tactics than formulating strategies. SC2 improved virtually everywhere (maybe except music) on SC1/Brood War and is anything but generic.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

DoW 2 vanilla is probably Relic's worst game(not bad though), but the exansions were really good, Chaos Rising for singleplayer and Retribution for multiplayer. I loved the multiplayer to death, not to meantion there is more personality in one Dawn of War race than in all of SCII combined.

I love RTT's though, and know others don't, so I can respect that some people don't like the direction Relic has gone in post Company of Heroes.

I can also respect that SCII is a great competitive RTS due to its balance and polish, but it definitely is generic. There is probably more innovation gameplay wise between DowII vanilla and Retribution than there is from SCI to SC2.

Since every strategy game tries to "innovate", even Command and Conquer, I'm happy Starcraft 2 exists. The old is new again.

I like Diablo 3.

Looking forward to trying this new patch. Have not been on Diablo3 for a few months, but this patch is looking like a very good update.

A few more patches like thsi and an expansion pack I think would do D3 real well.

[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"]I found that Dawn of War 2 was a step back from everything's Relic done up to that point. It is not even an RTS (IMO) but an RTT (real time tactics), since you spend more time controlling individual units and focusing on individual tactics than formulating strategies. SC2 improved virtually everywhere (maybe except music) on SC1/Brood War and is anything but generic.with_teeth26

DoW 2 vanilla is probably Relic's worst game(not bad though), but the exansions were really good, Chaos Rising for singleplayer and Retribution for multiplayer. I loved the multiplayer to death, not to meantion there is more personality in one Dawn of War race than in all of SCII combined.

I love RTT's though, and know others don't, so I can respect that some people don't like the direction Relic has gone in post Company of Heroes.

I can also respect that SCII is a great competitive RTS due to its balance and polish, but it definitely is generic. There is probably more innovation gameplay wise between DowII vanilla and Retribution than there is from SCI to SC2.

[QUOTE="with_teeth26"]

[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"]I found that Dawn of War 2 was a step back from everything's Relic done up to that point. It is not even an RTS (IMO) but an RTT (real time tactics), since you spend more time controlling individual units and focusing on individual tactics than formulating strategies. SC2 improved virtually everywhere (maybe except music) on SC1/Brood War and is anything but generic.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

DoW 2 vanilla is probably Relic's worst game(not bad though), but the exansions were really good, Chaos Rising for singleplayer and Retribution for multiplayer. I loved the multiplayer to death, not to meantion there is more personality in one Dawn of War race than in all of SCII combined.

I love RTT's though, and know others don't, so I can respect that some people don't like the direction Relic has gone in post Company of Heroes.

I can also respect that SCII is a great competitive RTS due to its balance and polish, but it definitely is generic. There is probably more innovation gameplay wise between DowII vanilla and Retribution than there is from SCI to SC2.

matchmaking that isn't rubbish, no GFWL, and the imperial guard. Big emphasis on the first two things. I sunk a lot of time into the multiplayer of the first three games so this was a big deal for me.

we are getting off topic though.