Cliffy B's stance on PC gaming

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

The publishers market the games not the developers.Deihmos

Well then I guess they should blame the fans huh...

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

Krall

I don't know about the USA but here down under there are like no commercials for PC games at all..

[QUOTE="Krall"]

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

biggest_loser

I don't know about the USA but here down under there are like no commercials for PC games at all..

Only commercials I saw are for Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Lost Oddysey, and Drakes Fortune...hmm, majority seem to be 360 exclusives, haha, Microsoft seems to give their platform all the attention, oh, and there's that PS3 commercial where the PS3 is having a drug trip morphing into all sorts of things and a song is playing going "BOOM DO YOU WANT IT?!?!" .

It's amazing how well off PC gaming is when it has virtually no marketing.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Krall"]

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

ElArab

I don't know about the USA but here down under there are like no commercials for PC games at all..

Only commercials I saw are for Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Lost Oddysey, and Drakes Fortune...hmm, majority seem to be 360 exclusives, haha, Microsoft seems to give their platform all the attention, oh, and there's that PS3 commercial where the PS3 is having a drug trip morphing into all sorts of things and a song is playing going "BOOM DO YOU WANT IT?!?!" .

It's amazing how well off PC gaming is when it has virtually no marketing.

Those were PC game commercials? Last one I saw for the PC was for Civilization IV.

Granted part of the advertising for consoles is prolly built into the pricing/licencing structure, but gimmie a break Epic if PC gaming is in 'dissarray' you guys certainly aren't helping out matters with your remarks or lack of solutions. I doubt I'd be going out on a limb saying they've made a comfy living off of the PC titles they sold over the years.

I am kinda with Krall on this one. I can understand how epic wants to venture out into new territories for new markets for their sub-par games (IMO), but blaming the customers for their products' failures is just classless, tasteless and just downright rude. I can see Cliffy B's ego crushing him under its own weight one day, like John Romero's did.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

I don't remember John Romero being a dick like this...but I do remember how hard Daikatana failed and how quickly disappeared from gaming.

I blame the hair...

[QUOTE="FragMonkey09"]

THis is blasphemous! The ONLY REASON Cliffy B is anyonbody is because of his successes on the PC.

He is just after money like everyone else.

jimhogg

isn't that the purpose of a business?

Um ya, but at the same time if that is the only motivator (passion) to drive the business, then to me that just messed up! That is the problem with America today, example look at Enron, those dudes didnt care doing whats right, they just saw $$$, and they did whatever it took to get it, even if it meant doing wrong. Pathetic LOSERS!!!

As I've said before, if they want to leave the PC Gaming market they are more then welcome. We have a ton of Indie/Small PC developing companies ready to take their place anyways.

As I've said before, if they want to leave the PC Gaming market they are more then welcome. We have a ton of Indie/Small PC developing companies ready to take their place anyways.

Cdscottie

Definitely. It was a little know polish developer that released the RPG of the year in The Witcher - I would buy that over Unreal Tournament 3 anyday.

The opinion of a fool, nothing more.JP_Russell

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Krall"]

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

ElArab

I don't know about the USA but here down under there are like no commercials for PC games at all..

Only commercials I saw are for Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Lost Oddysey, and Drakes Fortune...hmm, majority seem to be 360 exclusives, haha, Microsoft seems to give their platform all the attention, oh, and there's that PS3 commercial where the PS3 is having a drug trip morphing into all sorts of things and a song is playing going "BOOM DO YOU WANT IT?!?!" .

It's amazing how well off PC gaming is when it has virtually no marketing.

[QUOTE="jimhogg"][QUOTE="JP_Russell"][QUOTE="jimhogg"][QUOTE="JP_Russell"][QUOTE="jimhogg"]

i get what you're saying, i'm just trying to prove that console games sell better. pc games are the best though. you can really push games to the max. that's why i can't wait for mass effect in may..

JP_Russell

Well, no one's trying to argue that console games don't sell better, but you're trying to say PC gaming is doing poorly, and it most certainly is not.

i never said it was doing poorly... sorry if you took that interpretation.

Well, you said "i mean sales of pc games haven't been the best besides of course wow.. but other then that, i mean even crysis isn't selling great..." Since you said Crysis wasn't selling great, and also implied that it must be one of the highest sellers since it's the "heaviest hitter," I could only infer you meant that if a heavy hitter like Crysis wasn't doing well, then less prominent titles were doing even worse. That's why it sounded like you were saying PC gaming in general is doing poorly. That, and the fact that you said PC games aren't selling really well besides WoW, which is untrue, they are.

EDIT - And another thing, remember that PC games sell more consistently over time, whereas console sales are mostly just in the initial sales. This means that comparing a console title and PC title sales by a certain amount of time after they've been released is automatically a slanted comparison in favor of the consoles, whereas comparing copies sold after a long period of time when both titles have stopped selling significantly is much fairer.

yes. but consoles will most likely always sell more games than pc's mainly because of the casual gamers.

I agree, they do sell more as a whole. I'm just saying, comparing initial sales between consoles and PC's is an unfair comparison, and the consoles will appear to have more of an advantage over PC's than they really do. When you take into account all sales over time, the gap between consoles and PC's is much less prominent.

Also, don't forget there's also the advantage in sales statistics consoles have of being more than one platform. I mean, you're comparing the sales of one platform to the sales of at least three.

[QUOTE="ElArab"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Krall"]

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

Krall

I don't know about the USA but here down under there are like no commercials for PC games at all..

Only commercials I saw are for Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Lost Oddysey, and Drakes Fortune...hmm, majority seem to be 360 exclusives, haha, Microsoft seems to give their platform all the attention, oh, and there's that PS3 commercial where the PS3 is having a drug trip morphing into all sorts of things and a song is playing going "BOOM DO YOU WANT IT?!?!" .

It's amazing how well off PC gaming is when it has virtually no marketing.

Those were PC game commercials? Last one I saw for the PC was for Civilization IV.

Crysis was advertised here in Florida (which of course probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't EA paying for it). I guess you could count Bioshock, too, even if the 360 was the lead platform.

[QUOTE="Krall"][QUOTE="ElArab"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Krall"]

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

JP_Russell

I don't know about the USA but here down under there are like no commercials for PC games at all..

Only commercials I saw are for Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Lost Oddysey, and Drakes Fortune...hmm, majority seem to be 360 exclusives, haha, Microsoft seems to give their platform all the attention, oh, and there's that PS3 commercial where the PS3 is having a drug trip morphing into all sorts of things and a song is playing going "BOOM DO YOU WANT IT?!?!" .

It's amazing how well off PC gaming is when it has virtually no marketing.

Those were PC game commercials? Last one I saw for the PC was for Civilization IV.

Crysis was advertised here in Florida. (which of course probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't EA paying for it). I guess you could count Bioshock, too, even if the 360 was the lead platform.

Last PC game I saw advertised on screen in UK was the original Dawn of War, and that surprised the hell out of me.

Console games are regularly advertised, though - even handhelds.

I wouldn't call Cliffy B a fool, he and his company have done some great things for PC gaming. That said though it seems like he and Mark Rein are on some kind of crusade to derail PC gaming. All I see from them lately is PC bashing comments and frankly I've had enough. I didn't pickup UT3, but planned to. I really wanted to play GoW on the PC, but forget it I'm not buying another one of their games again at least until they change their stinky stance.

Just to add, it really rubs me the wrong way to blame your customers on your poor sales. Has anyone ever seen a commercial for GoW or UT3 for the PC? Oh I thought not. I see 'em all the time for the consoles. Hmm you think there's a correlation between sales and advertising...

Krall

true !

also they relesed geow 1 yr late and both ut 3 and geow in such a poor state on their release and then they expect people to buy their game

Ya know imagine if Gears wasn't released when the 360 had only like, 3 games out for it. That's why it sold so well, because people were sick of playing Halo 2, they bought a 360 to play 360 games, not replay Halo 2 with that joke feature the 360 has called "backwards compatibility".

Now EPIC has a big stiffy for itself and think's they are so damn great, when the only reason they are still here is because Microsoft came and saved their sorry asses with GeOW's marketing and timing, if it was released later, then that game would have been considered "mediocre at best" - and c'mon, they totally got the Chainsaw bayonet thing from Dawn of War.

Now they release GeOW on PC a year later, and expect it to sell 4.5 million AGAIN, but sorry EPIC, it doesn't work that way, people don't buy the same game twice if they already have it on one problem, not every time that is. Then they repaint UT04 and call it UT3, where the only new mode is some Orb added into Onslaught, and then they expect that to sell too? Sorry EPIC, but, people want QUALITY games, and the GFW Live doesn't help with sales either. PC doesn't want Xbox live, you can't scam us like that (this is directed to microsoft.), there's only like, 3 games on GFW Live, why would we pay 60 bucks for achievments that don't matter?

-but no, just insult us and say "PC is only for sims and warcraft" as if you're a console tard yourself. I'm sorry you didn't expect your new daddy M$ to give you another 4.5 million by re-selling the same game a year later, Konami does the same with the Metal Gear games, every time they make one, they make another with extras, but it sure as hell doesn't sell as much as the original did.

I really shouldn't care so much about this guy's opinion, but, when people say stupid and ignorant things like that it just (as we say in the ghetto) puts my knickers in a twist.

i read all the comments in this forum.

Personally, i agree with the fact that Cliffy B shouldn't blame the pc gamers community just because of the losses

Many games come out exclusively in consoles. They care less about the pc gamers.

Suddenly the games come out on pc and expect us to buy from them. When the sales failed, they blamed us.

I juz think its not fair for all the pc gamers.

they should apologize to us! Without us giving money to them by buying UT franchise long ago

Epic wouldn't be big company nowadays

I've always believed that CliffyB gets more praise than he deserves in the game industry. All the games he is involved with play similar, look similar, and just feel similar. Gears, especially, was nothing extraordinary from a PC perspective. If he would rather cater to a less demanding crowd to sell more, then so be it and good riddance. It will just mean that we won't be getting anymore UT and UT-like games.

The shooter was born on the PC. Shame on him for forgetting that and abandoning his roots.

Ya know imagine if Gears wasn't released when the 360 had only like, 3 games out for it. That's why it sold so well, because people were sick of playing Halo 2, they bought a 360 to play 360 games, not replay Halo 2 with that joke feature the 360 has called "backwards compatibility".

Now EPIC has a big stiffy for itself and think's they are so damn great, when the only reason they are still here is because Microsoft came and saved their sorry asses with GeOW's marketing and timing, if it was released later, then that game would have been considered "mediocre at best" - and c'mon, they totally got the Chainsaw bayonet thing from Dawn of War.

Now they release GeOW on PC a year later, and expect it to sell 4.5 million AGAIN, but sorry EPIC, it doesn't work that way, people don't buy the same game twice if they already have it on one problem, not every time that is. Then they repaint UT04 and call it UT3, where the only new mode is some Orb added into Onslaught, and then they expect that to sell too? Sorry EPIC, but, people want QUALITY games, and the GFW Live doesn't help with sales either. PC doesn't want Xbox live, you can't scam us like that (this is directed to microsoft.), there's only like, 3 games on GFW Live, why would we pay 60 bucks for achievments that don't matter?

-but no, just insult us and say "PC is only for sims and warcraft" as if you're a console tard yourself. I'm sorry you didn't expect your new daddy M$ to give you another 4.5 million by re-selling the same game a year later, Konami does the same with the Metal Gear games, every time they make one, they make another with extras, but it sure as hell doesn't sell as much as the original did.

I really shouldn't care so much about this guy's opinion, but, when people say stupid and ignorant things like that it just (as we say in the ghetto) puts my knickers in a twist.

ElArab

I know what you are probably going to say... "Who?" and I wouldn't blame you.smokeydabear076

yeah thats pretty much it, he's ignorant if he thinks piracy is the problem. Again crysis looked like it had poor NDP sales but in reality it actually sold 1 million copies. These guys need to abandon the NDP system because its not accurate of the number of sales games get.

[QUOTE="smokeydabear076"]I know what you are probably going to say... "Who?" and I wouldn't blame you.filmography

yeah thats pretty much it, he's ignorant if he thinks piracy is the problem. Again crysis looked like it had poor NDP sales but in reality it actually sold 1 million copies. These guys need to abandon the NDP system because its not accurate of the number of sales games get.

If you read the interview he clearly says that instead of selling a millon copies on PC, they want to sell 4,5 mill copies on consoles. So I don't understand the logic behind your argument.

I've always believed that CliffyB gets more praise than he deserves in the game industry. All the games he is involved with play similar, look similar, and just feel similar. Gears, especially, was nothing extraordinary from a PC perspective. If he would rather cater to a less demanding crowd to sell more, then so be it and good riddance. It will just mean that we won't be getting anymore UT and UT-like games.

The shooter was born on the PC. Shame on him for forgetting that and abandoning his roots.

Qixote

Yup what a douche. Forgot what MADE Epic. Consolized UT3 good job cliff - PC gamers have higher standards.

Great little posting over at VE3D about CliffyB and why Gears PC just isn't that great to warrant a purchase one year later, all very good points:

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/36776/Weekend-Wranglings

"Rocket Science 101 or Why Gears of War on the PC didn't sell:

1. Games for Windows Live: Since the PC isn't a closed platform you can't get away with nerfing basic multiplayer support. Microsoft needs to remember that Windows is what pays the bills.

2. Bugs: If you spent X number of hours making sure the 360 version was ship-shape; why not do the same for the PC? Nothing is worse than releasing a poorly polished product.

3. Release Dates: PC/360 are both Microsoft products. Why not release them at the same time?

4. Basic UI changes: I don't want to see 360 controller icons in the PC version. Thanks!"