AMD addressing microstuttering for single-GPU and Crossfire.

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Marfoo

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#1 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts

The issue of frame-latency problems with single-GPU setups (particularly Radeon) recently has sparked a lot talk on our forums, and for even longer, the issues of microstuttering with Crossfire and SLI setups has long been an issue that has not been addressed. In a very lenghthy discussion (worth the read if you're interested in the interworkings of everything, as I am) Anandtech spoke with AMD about why the problem is there, how it can be resolved and some nifty features they will be adding to their drivers later this year.

The full read is here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6857/amd-stuttering-issues-driver-roadmap-fraps

Here is a recap for those who don't want to read.

1. Radeon has latency issues.

  • This is true, and AMD now evaluated frame latency for every game they optimize.
    • As a result of stuttering optimzations, AMD has squeezed untapped potential from their GPUs. (ex. 13% in Borderlands!)
    • Expect better consistency and performance from all games from here on out.
  • FRAPS is can sometimes provide false positives of stuttering because it measures the wrong part of the pipeline
    • FRAPS measures time between "present()" calls, which is not a good indicator of when the frame actually reaches your screen.
    • FRAPS may indicate latency spikes even when frames are hitting your screen in a consistent manner.
    • More in depth tools, like GPUView are needed to truly asses frame latency.

2. Crossifire Microstuttering.

  • The primary method for Crossfire/SLI is AFR (alternate frame rendering).
    • GPUs render every other frame.
    • Best results happen when GPU2 starts rending the next frame when GPU1 is halfway done with the present frame.
  • Timing issues occur.
    • Sometimes one frame takes longer to render than other making timing hard to predict.
    • Sometimes the next frame depends on information from the previous frame
    • These timing issues cause "microstuttering".
  • Microstuttering can be smoothed out by holding onto frames longer.
    • Proividng a buffer time allows more consistent frame latencies.
    • Providing a buffer time will result in "input lag".
    • The effect is similar to enabling vsync.
  • Giving the user control.
    • Crossfire users will be able to select two modes of operation.
    • Mode 1: Traditional mode, frame latencies are reduced, no input lag. Microstuttering occurs.
    • Mode 2: Smooth mode, a buffer is utilized to smooth out microstuttering, input lag occurs.

The Bottom Line

  • AMD admits to finding latency issues.
  • All titles are already being screened for latency issues and optimized. (all games from here on out should be as stutter free as possible)
  • Optimizations have increased performance on AMD GPUs.
  • Micostuttering will be addressed for Crossfire setups.
  • Crossfire users will gain new driver options to control microstuttering in July.


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Marfoo

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#2 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts
Lol, guess I was the only one who found this interesting.
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Cyberdot

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#3 Cyberdot
Member since 2013 • 3928 Posts

Damn, this is why I'm avoiding AMD. I've been hearing a lot of negative feedback from the AMD userbase.

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Marfoo

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#4 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts

Damn, this is why I'm avoiding AMD. I've been hearing a lot of negative feedback from the AMD userbase.

Cyberdot
Well, I can tell you they've really fixed the single-GPU stuttering stuff. The only real game I saw it in was Skyrim (and the whole time I thought it was just the engine loading objects as you explored) but now it's smooth as butter. I'm just glad they're honest about it and present the problem at a technical level and are offering solutions. As for Crossfire/SLI, ATI users and Nvidia alike have been complaining about microstutter for years. This is the first time either company has offered an explanation of why it happens and is going to provide tools to deal with it, pretty cool in my book.
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soolkiki

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#5 soolkiki
Member since 2008 • 1783 Posts

Hmm...I wondered...Usually I got stuttering when I was running and looking down at the same time and at no other time. I'll have to see if all my drivers are up to date.

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Marfoo

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#6 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts

Hmm...I wondered...Usually I got stuttering when I was running and looking down at the same time and at no other time. I'll have to see if all my drivers are up to date.

soolkiki
Interesting, I'll have to try that, see if it affect me too.
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Krigen89

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#7 Krigen89
Member since 2003 • 3907 Posts
Lol, guess I was the only one who found this interesting.Marfoo
I think it's super interesting, but really had nothing to add lol.
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Marfoo

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#8 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts
[QUOTE="Marfoo"]Lol, guess I was the only one who found this interesting.Krigen89
I think it's super interesting, but really had nothing to add lol.

Okay, good to know, lol.
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Angry_Mushroom

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#9 Angry_Mushroom
Member since 2009 • 708 Posts
Can't say I've had much of an issue with stuttering in BF3 since most of my problems stem from lag. Still it is nice to see AMD acknowledge this issue, and work to fix it. Since I have a pair of 5850s running in my rig I'm looking forward to playing with the settings.
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andmcq

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#10 andmcq
Member since 2012 • 259 Posts

Beautiful. They need to fix this otherwise there's little reason to go AMD and no reason to go Crossfire (frame latency is much lower on SLi).

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Elann2008

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#11 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts
It's about damn time.
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mitu123

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#12 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

This makes me interested in trying Crossfire whenever I go back to AMD again.

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osan0

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#13 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17814 Posts
Note to self: update drivers in a few months. in fairness though i havent really noticed it on my rig....though maybe i have but am blaming the engine loading in assets as mentioned above. my laptop uses an AMD a6 3420 though and i currently dont have access to my PC. although it plays skyrim pretty well it does stutter at times and, i suspect, that is not a microstuttering problem. funny story though....my laptop plays skyrim better than oblivion.
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Marfoo

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#14 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts
[QUOTE="osan0"]Note to self: update drivers in a few months. in fairness though i havent really noticed it on my rig....though maybe i have but am blaming the engine loading in assets as mentioned above. my laptop uses an AMD a6 3420 though and i currently dont have access to my PC. although it plays skyrim pretty well it does stutter at times and, i suspect, that is not a microstuttering problem. funny story though....my laptop plays skyrim better than oblivion.

Oblivion does not make good use of multi-core, Skyrim is easier to run as a result.
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blaznwiipspman1

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#15 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16539 Posts

i didnt notice any microstuttering so i could care less about this however the performance increase is welcome.

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godzillavskong

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#16 godzillavskong
Member since 2007 • 7904 Posts
[QUOTE="Cyberdot"]

Damn, this is why I'm avoiding AMD. I've been hearing a lot of negative feedback from the AMD userbase.

Marfoo
Well, I can tell you they've really fixed the single-GPU stuttering stuff. The only real game I saw it in was Skyrim (and the whole time I thought it was just the engine loading objects as you explored) but now it's smooth as butter. I'm just glad they're honest about it and present the problem at a technical level and are offering solutions. As for Crossfire/SLI, ATI users and Nvidia alike have been complaining about microstutter for years. This is the first time either company has offered an explanation of why it happens and is going to provide tools to deal with it, pretty cool in my book.

I'm glad they're addressing it. Hasn't really been that bad with my 6870s. VRAM limitations is my issue and no driver update is gonna fix that. Lol
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Elann2008

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#17 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts

This makes me interested in trying Crossfire whenever I go back to AMD again.

mitu123
Same. This is really good on them (AMD). This was something I was hoping they would address since the HD 4870 days. Reading this: "As a result of stuttering optimzations, AMD has squeezed untapped potential from their GPUs. (ex. 13% in Borderlands!) Expect better consistency and performance from all games from here on out." Makes me really happy.
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Marfoo

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#18 Marfoo
Member since 2004 • 6002 Posts
[QUOTE="mitu123"]

This makes me interested in trying Crossfire whenever I go back to AMD again.

Elann2008
Same. This is really good on them (AMD). This was something I was hoping they would address since the HD 4870 days. Reading this: "As a result of stuttering optimzations, AMD has squeezed untapped potential from their GPUs. (ex. 13% in Borderlands!) Expect better consistency and performance from all games from here on out." Makes me really happy.

Yeah, it would be very interesting to see how much more they could have gotten out of R700. My 4870 Crossfire setup ran like a champ though, I ran it from summer 2008 until just this January.
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kraken2109

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#19 kraken2109
Member since 2009 • 13271 Posts

i didnt notice any microstuttering so i could care less about this however the performance increase is welcome.

blaznwiipspman1
The expression is 'couldn't care less'