US soldier who leaked info to Wikileaks being tortured?

In most countries, he would have been shot on the spot. stanleycup98

Generally what happens when you betray your country IS NOT sunshine and lollipops. I may not totally agree with his punishment, but there's no way anyone can say he did not have it coming.

When you're with the government, you play by their rules. Plain and simple.

Also, the first link almost gave me a virus, but my anti-virus blocked it, thanks TC.

supa_badman

When was he convicted?

[QUOTE="stanleycup98"]In most countries, he would have been shot on the spot. inoperativeRS

Tell me something: why were W. Mark Felt and Daniel Ellsberg never charged with treason?

worlock77

Ellsberg was charged with treason.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Radiatedrich91"]

The people he exposed are the real traitors.

Hockey_Slayer

Traitors to what exactly?

No....... unless of course people think it's reasonable to force the army to give out classified information when it is still relevant.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Forget all the legal nonsense of the oath he took or the level of his clearance; can anyone say with a straight face that what he did was WRONG, ethically? Heck no. UnknownSniper65

Oath of enlistment to the United States Armed Forces

"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

He better be glad he's not being executed for treason.Acemaster27

He was not CONVICTED of treason. In fact, he has not even been put on trial.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"]

Generally what happens when you betray your country IS NOT sunshine and lollipops. I may not totally agree with his punishment, but there's no way anyone can say he did not have it coming.

When you're with the government, you play by their rules. Plain and simple.

Also, the first link almost gave me a virus, but my anti-virus blocked it, thanks TC.

Dark_Knight6

When was he convicted?

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Forget all the legal nonsense of the oath he took or the level of his clearance; can anyone say with a straight face that what he did was WRONG, ethically? Heck no. UnknownSniper65

Oath of enlistment to the United States Armed Forces

"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"]He better be glad he's not being executed for treason.Dark_Knight6

He was not CONVICTED of treason. In fact, he has not even been put on trial.

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Traitors to what exactly?

Espada12

No....... unless of course people think it's reasonable to force the army to give out classified information when it is still relevant.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"]He better be glad he's not being executed for treason.Acemaster27

He was not CONVICTED of treason. In fact, he has not even been put on trial.

Then, it seems to me that they can have a trial, and duly convict him of such, no?

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"]He better be glad he's not being executed for treason.Acemaster27

He was not CONVICTED of treason. In fact, he has not even been put on trial.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"]

Generally what happens when you betray your country IS NOT sunshine and lollipops. I may not totally agree with his punishment, but there's no way anyone can say he did not have it coming.

When you're with the government, you play by their rules. Plain and simple.

Also, the first link almost gave me a virus, but my anti-virus blocked it, thanks TC.

sSubZerOo

Imprisonment yes.. But this? This is torture. If this article is accurate, this is most likely a violation of the geneva convention.. Because sleep deprevation along with other things can be described as a form of torture and is a human rights violation.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="stanleycup98"]In most countries, he would have been shot on the spot. stanleycup98

If I remember correctly, didn't he put tons of people who works for government in danger? This is more like a mass muder if those people got killed due to his information leak. He might as well released nuke code and said he didn't killed millions of people because he didn't launch the nuke.magicalclick

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Traitors to what exactly?

Espada12

No....... unless of course people think it's reasonable to force the army to give out classified information when it is still relevant.

They hid information that was only hidden because it made the government look bad, and because they could be held accountable for the helicopter fiasco.

Until they can be trusted to be honest with the poeple, it's our right to know whats going on.

If it's relevant we shouldn't have to force them to do anything. We deserve to hear the information.

Hockey_Slayer

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

If I remember correctly, didn't he put tons of people who works for government in danger?magicalclick

There is not one piece of evidence that I know of that these leaks endangered lives.

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

If it's relevant we shouldn't have to force them to do anything. We deserve to hear the information.

Espada12

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

He was not CONVICTED of treason. In fact, he has not even been put on trial.

GabuEx

Then, it seems to me that they can have a trial, and duly convict him of such, no?

Exactly.

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

If it's relevant we shouldn't have to force them to do anything. We deserve to hear the information.

Espada12

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

They hid information that was only hidden because it made the government look bad, and because they could be held accountable for the helicopter fiasco.

Until they can be trusted to be honest with the poeple, it's our right to know whats going on.

xLFTMx

It doesn't matter the reason why they hid it. If they believe it's harmful in anyway way I see no issue with them hiding it. Though I'd like to know where every nuclear submarine is located in the world and where every nuclear missle is located in the US! I have a right to know!!!!!!

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

If it's relevant we shouldn't have to force them to do anything. We deserve to hear the information.

Espada12

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

If it's relevant we shouldn't have to force them to do anything. We deserve to hear the information.

Ace6301

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

There are documents from 05 on there....

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

If it's relevant we shouldn't have to force them to do anything. We deserve to hear the information.

Hockey_Slayer

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

Espada12

There are documents from 05 on there....

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

Espada12

I am watching 24, and, it really pissed me off when those traitors don't care about other people's life, but, themselves. And what pissed me off is because they know they can get away with it by hiring an evil lawyer. And people like Jake who does everything for his country is treated as a criminal. Anyway, if I work for government, the first thing I will tell them is, don't give me anything important :). I don't want to get tortured by bad guys or become traitor and get tortured by good guys.magicalclick

[QUOTE="Hockey_Slayer"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Classified information when it's relevant remains classified because it is relevant and showing the whole world at the current time is not a smart idea. If you want some transparency wait till it pops up here.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

Espada12

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

inoperativeRS

I never argued that was what manning gave out, someone told me that we have a right to hear classified relevant information. I'm merely backing up my stance on why that is not true.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

Espada12

I never argued that was what manning gave out, someone told me that we have a right to hear classified relevant information. I'm merely backing up my stance on why that is not true.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

Espada12

I never argued that was what manning gave out, someone told me that we have a right to hear classified relevant information. I'm merely backing up my stance on why that is not true.

So I suppose if he had leaked classified information that civilians were being secretly detained, placed into FEMA death camps, and being experimented on, you would call "TREASON" and say that the people don't have a right to that information? You'd be happy for Manning to be tortured, imprissoned for life or executed?

Governments work for their people, not the other way around.

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

He was not CONVICTED of treason. In fact, he has not even been put on trial.

GabuEx

Then, it seems to me that they can have a trial, and duly convict him of such, no?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"] Knowingly giving classified documents to anyone not authorized to have them is treason. And the penalty is death.Acemaster27

Then, it seems to me that they can have a trial, and duly convict him of such, no?

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

It's ****fied to benefit us of course, would you like the world to know all the base locations, defenses, the numbers of personnel, the location of all the nukes, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, naval patrol routes, operational data/tactics and all the military technology (experimental and current) of your country?

Espada12

I never argued that was what manning gave out, someone told me that we have a right to hear classified relevant information. I'm merely backing up my stance on why that is not true.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Tell me something: why were W. Mark Felt and Daniel Ellsberg never charged with treason?

GabuEx

Ellsberg was charged with treason.

I believe he was charged with espionage but not treason.

In that case you're still not explaining why people shouldn't be allowed to know the information that Manning leaked. False dilemma.inoperativeRS

Because the government doesn't want it to be out in the open for whatever reasons. That's a good enough reason. Can someone explain to me why we should know? I mean we know it... now what? What have we gained?

I'm am becoming more and more ashamed to call myself a human being.

[QUOTE="inoperativeRS"]

In that case you're still not explaining why people shouldn't be allowed to know the information that Manning leaked. False dilemma.Espada12

Because the government doesn't want it to be out in the open for whatever reasons. That's a good enough reason. Can someone explain to me why we should know? I mean we know it... now what? What have we gained?

You don't understand why CIVILIAN casualty statistics are important? Thats a major deal and may affect the US citizens opinion on the war as a whole. Which is why it was kept from us. Which is not democratic.

We've gained truth.