UK File sharers to be "cut off"

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Alter_Echo

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#101 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Mm, this. People shouldn't have the internet cut off for downloading stuff that they can't get through any other means.AFraud

That doesn't make it right. Nobody is entitled to any piece of music, movies etc.

People have to learn to live without.

When you're 14 and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

I just think they need a pricing restructure. A majority of the asking price for given media is astoundingly high when compared to what you are getting for it. For example, i dont think a 2 hour movie should cost $20-30. I dont think a CD with 10 songs on it ( most of which are 3 minutes long ) should cost $15.

My BIGGEST issue is when i want to purchase a song legitimately and upon finding it i discover that it can only be purchased with the entire CD. There are other shady pricing problems like this that just scream "go pirate our stuff instead of letting us rip you off"

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Carl_W21

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#102 Carl_W21
Member since 2004 • 2021 Posts

I think our government has more to be concerned about than copyright.

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LJS9502_basic

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#103 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Mm, this. People shouldn't have the internet cut off for downloading stuff that they can't get through any other means.AFraud

That doesn't make it right. Nobody is entitled to any piece of music, movies etc.

People have to learn to live without.

When you're 15 or 16 like yourself, and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

When you grow up you realize that you have to use your money wisely. So buy what you want most. This is not justification for piracy. If you don't find it worth the money...yes you do do without.

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AFraud

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#104 AFraud
Member since 2004 • 1500 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] That doesn't make it right. Nobody is entitled to any piece of music, movies etc.

People have to learn to live without.

Alter_Echo

When you're 14 and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

I just think they need a pricing restructure. A majority of the asking price for given media is astoundingly high when compared to what you are getting for it. For example, i dont think a 2 hour movie should cost $20-30. I dont think a CD with 10 songs on it ( most of which are 3 minutes long ) should cost $15.

My BIGGEST issue is when i want to purchase a song legitimately and upon finding it i discover that it can only be purchased with the entire CD. There are other shady pricing problems like this that just scream "go pirate our stuff instead of letting us rip you off"

I agree. In a sane world, videogames would cost $15-20 new, dvds $5, and songs 5-10 cents. The pricing for media is obscenely high for what you're getting.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#105 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] That doesn't make it right. Nobody is entitled to any piece of music, movies etc.

People have to learn to live without.

When you're 15 or 16 like yourself, and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

When you grow up you realize that you have to use your money wisely. So buy what you want most. This is not justification for piracy. If you don't find it worth the money...yes you do do without.

The point being is people are doing regardless of how people think.. Its going to cost the government enormous amounts of money, and its going to be a invasion of our privacy.. All to defend companies that can't adapt..
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LJS9502_basic

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#106 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

I agree. In a sane world, videogames would cost $15-20 new, dvds $5, and songs 5-10 cents. The pricing for media is obscenely high for what you're getting.

AFraud

Then you don't purchase it. The labor of many people goes into the creation of music, movies, and games. Would you work for nothing to provide entertainment for people? Because how would you feed your family?

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LJS9502_basic

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#107 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

The point being is people are doing regardless of how people think.. Its going to cost the government enormous amounts of money, and its going to be a invasion of our privacy.. All to defend companies that can't adapt..sSubZerOo
So if it costs the government too much to crack down on car theft....we should let cars be stolen? When one breaks the law...they lose the right to privacy.

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Ontain

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#108 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
[QUOTE="Fried_Shrimp"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Good, it serves them right.MetalGear_Ninty
Everyone used to copy VHS and Cassettes in the 80's. It's totally hypocritical.

I didn't. Thus I'm not a hypocrite. :|

how old are you that your never made a mix tape or recorded a tv show then let your friend borrow it too?
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AFraud

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#109 AFraud
Member since 2004 • 1500 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] That doesn't make it right. Nobody is entitled to any piece of music, movies etc.

People have to learn to live without.

LJS9502_basic

When you're 15 or 16 like yourself, and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

When you grow up you realize that you have to use your money wisely. So buy what you want most. This is not justification for piracy. If you don't find it worth the money...yes you do do without.

IMO media falls into the same category as books/literature (ie it's intellectual property). You aren't expected to go without books, and the availability of books that can be taken out for free at the library hasn't caused people to stop writing. I don't see anything that wrong with "pirating" music, movies, and games for personal use.

Also, as I said before, the pricing for media is absolutely insane and unfair.

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LJS9502_basic

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#110 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Fried_Shrimp"] Everyone used to copy VHS and Cassettes in the 80's. It's totally hypocritical.Ontain
I didn't. Thus I'm not a hypocrite. :|

how old are you that your never made a mix tape or recorded a tv show then let your friend borrow it too?

Actually it's not against the law to back up that which you purchased.

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AFraud

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#111 AFraud
Member since 2004 • 1500 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

I agree. In a sane world, videogames would cost $15-20 new, dvds $5, and songs 5-10 cents. The pricing for media is obscenely high for what you're getting.

LJS9502_basic

Then you don't purchase it. The labor of many people goes into the creation of music, movies, and games. Would you work for nothing to provide entertainment for people? Because how would you feed your family?

Artists could still do fine at those prices. So Master P might have to do without a private island. Cry me a river.

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LJS9502_basic

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#112 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

When you're 15 or 16 like yourself, and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

AFraud

When you grow up you realize that you have to use your money wisely. So buy what you want most. This is not justification for piracy. If you don't find it worth the money...yes you do do without.

IMO media falls into the same category as books/literature (ie it's intellectual property). You aren't expected to go without books, and the availability of books that can be taken out for free at the library hasn't caused people to stop writing. I don't see anything that wrong with "pirating" music, movies, and games for personal use.

Also, as I said before, the pricing for media is absolutely insane and unfair.

You are expected to pay for your entertainment. That includes books. You can buy most formats second hand. You can rent movies and games....and some music I believe. That is legal. Piracy is justification for I want it now and I shouldn't have to pay. Would you work for free?

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LJS9502_basic

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#113 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

Artists could still do fine at those prices. So Master P might have to do without a private island. Cry me a river.

AFraud

In the free market system....the market sets the price. Have you stopped buying games new?

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MrGeezer

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#114 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] That doesn't make it right. Nobody is entitled to any piece of music, movies etc.

People have to learn to live without.

Alter_Echo

When you're 14 and mommy and daddy pay for everything, you can afford to spend your allowance on movies and games, and it's easy to have a holier-than-thou attitude about piracy.

Grow up and you'll see that you have tons of monthly expenses (car insurance, health insurance, rent, electric, gas, cable, DSL/phone, student loans) that are much more important than paying for some meaningless piece of entertainment. Does that mean people should have to "live without" and be miserable? Hell no. And this is why people pirate. The greedy fatcats at the MPAA and RIAA can handle the losses. Most movies, games, and music cds suck these days anyway and aren't really worth paying for.

I just think they need a pricing restructure. A majority of the asking price for given media is astoundingly high when compared to what you are getting for it. For example, i dont think a 2 hour movie should cost $20-30. I dont think a CD with 10 songs on it ( most of which are 3 minutes long ) should cost $15.

My BIGGEST issue is when i want to purchase a song legitimately and upon finding it i discover that it can only be purchased with the entire CD. There are other shady pricing problems like this that just scream "go pirate our stuff instead of letting us rip you off"

That's about $1.50 for a song. About the price of a cheeseburger from McDonalds. When I hear a song that I like, that's absolutely a fair price in my mind.

*shrugs*

I guess it's just about how much value you personally place on music. If you don't think that an excellent song is worth one or two dollars, then you won't buy it. That's pretty much how all purchasing decisions are made. If I don't think that a PS3 is worth $300 of my money, then I won't buy one.

I just think it's weird how people can say that a song isn't even worth a buck, and then in the same sentence complain about how they're supposed "go without it". If it ain't worth more than about a dollar to you, then going without it shouldn't be that hard.

And similarly, I find it highly unlikely that piracy results in less loss of money to the artists than a dollar. If an artist only makes 10 cents on the dollar, and then 15,000 people illegally download his song instead of buying it, that's a loss of $1500 to the artist. Even if only 1% of his money comes from album sales, he's still making $1500 less than he otherwise would have been. And if a dollar is worth so much to a dude that he has to resort to piracy, how can he turn around and justify piracy which results in MUCH bigger losses to the actual artist?

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#115 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] The point being is people are doing regardless of how people think.. Its going to cost the government enormous amounts of money, and its going to be a invasion of our privacy.. All to defend companies that can't adapt..LJS9502_basic

So if it costs the government too much to crack down on car theft....we should let cars be stolen? When one breaks the law...they lose the right to privacy.

I fail to see how Car theft has any where close to the amount of privacy invasion to which they will be monitoring yoru interent activity at ALL times.. Furthermore the "car theft" prevention fits under a umbrella of law enforcement for funding.. Piracy does not, and its not going to stop.. LJ you surprise me, your the guy I constantly see hating to have the government spending money.. But now you are ok with the government spending enorumous amounts of money to invade your privacy? Right.. There are ways around piracy, and its not the same as car theft.. This isn't belittling the act, this is pointing out the vast difference between them and it can not be treated as such.. You treat it as such and you have already lost the "war against pirates"..
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AFraud

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#116 AFraud
Member since 2004 • 1500 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]When you grow up you realize that you have to use your money wisely. So buy what you want most. This is not justification for piracy. If you don't find it worth the money...yes you do do without.

LJS9502_basic

IMO media falls into the same category as books/literature (ie it's intellectual property). You aren't expected to go without books, and the availability of books that can be taken out for free at the library hasn't caused people to stop writing. I don't see anything that wrong with "pirating" music, movies, and games for personal use.

Also, as I said before, the pricing for media is absolutely insane and unfair.

You are expected to pay for your entertainment. That includes books. You can buy most formats second hand. You can rent movies and games....and some music I believe. That is legal. Piracy is justification for I want it now and I shouldn't have to pay. Would you work for free?

I don't pay for books most of the time. I take them out for free from the library. Lots of people do, and that hasn't stopped authors from writing.

The music and movie industries are greedy bastards. They're paid way too much for what little they provide to society.

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LJS9502_basic

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#117 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] The point being is people are doing regardless of how people think.. Its going to cost the government enormous amounts of money, and its going to be a invasion of our privacy.. All to defend companies that can't adapt..sSubZerOo

So if it costs the government too much to crack down on car theft....we should let cars be stolen? When one breaks the law...they lose the right to privacy.

I fail to see how Car theft has any where close to the amount of privacy invasion to which they will be monitoring yoru interent activity at ALL times.. Furthermore the "car theft" prevention fits under a umbrella of law enforcement for funding.. Piracy does not, and its not going to stop.. LJ you surprise me, your the guy I constantly see hating to have the government spending money.. But now you are ok with the government spending enorumous amounts of money to invade your privacy? Right.. There are ways around piracy, and its not the same as car theft.. This isn't belittling the act, this is pointing out the vast difference between them and it can not be treated as such.. You treat it as such and you have already lost the "war against pirates"..

Look...if you aren't pirating...you're not losing privacy. My comment about the car theft went toward your statement of government spending money....not the privacy issue per se. Crime needs to be curtailed. Otherwise, it grows.

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LJS9502_basic

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#118 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

I don't pay for books most of the time. I take them out for free from the library. Lots of people do, and that hasn't stopped authors from writing.

The music and movie industries are greedy bastards. They're paid way too much for what little they provide to society.

AFraud

Newsflash....the movie and music industry is not for societies own good. You buy what you want with your money. If it's not worth your money...you do without. Simple really....

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Ontain

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#119 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts

Actually it's not against the law to back up that which you purchased.

LJS9502_basic

what about tv shows or sports? I remember I used to record shows with my vcr all the time back in the day and yes i would lend them to my friends if they missed it. I didn't see anything wrong with that. heck i used to also record songs off the radio if i liked it and didn't have the money for an album yet. almost everyone i knew did these things.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#120 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]So if it costs the government too much to crack down on car theft....we should let cars be stolen? When one breaks the law...they lose the right to privacy.

I fail to see how Car theft has any where close to the amount of privacy invasion to which they will be monitoring yoru interent activity at ALL times.. Furthermore the "car theft" prevention fits under a umbrella of law enforcement for funding.. Piracy does not, and its not going to stop.. LJ you surprise me, your the guy I constantly see hating to have the government spending money.. But now you are ok with the government spending enorumous amounts of money to invade your privacy? Right.. There are ways around piracy, and its not the same as car theft.. This isn't belittling the act, this is pointing out the vast difference between them and it can not be treated as such.. You treat it as such and you have already lost the "war against pirates"..

Look...if you aren't pirating...you're not losing privacy. My comment about the car theft went toward your statement of government spending money....not the privacy issue per se. Crime needs to be curtailed. Otherwise, it grows.

What are you talking about? Of course you are, HOW IN THE hell would they know if you pirating or not.. Oh thats right they have to look at your activity, where you go, what you download etc etc... This crime is completely different from the other such things.. It will grow as more people gain access.. These companies need to adapt, as shown in this market business have been able to grow and thirve even in this piracy environement..
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AFraud

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#121 AFraud
Member since 2004 • 1500 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

I don't pay for books most of the time. I take them out for free from the library. Lots of people do, and that hasn't stopped authors from writing.

The music and movie industries are greedy bastards. They're paid way too much for what little they provide to society.

LJS9502_basic

Newsflash....the movie and music industry is not for societies own good. You buy what you want with your money. If it's not worth your money...you do without. Simple really....

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

And movies aren't created for society's good? You need to watch more movies. I would put some of the classics in the same category as literature.

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#122 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

I don't pay for books most of the time. I take them out for free from the library. Lots of people do, and that hasn't stopped authors from writing.

The music and movie industries are greedy bastards. They're paid way too much for what little they provide to society.

Newsflash....the movie and music industry is not for societies own good. You buy what you want with your money. If it's not worth your money...you do without. Simple really....

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

There is no such thing as what a person deserves in a capitalist market.. Its what the people are willing to pay for it..
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Ontain

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#123 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts

IMO media falls into the same category as books/literature (ie it's intellectual property). You aren't expected to go without books, and the availability of books that can be taken out for free at the library hasn't caused people to stop writing. I don't see anything that wrong with "pirating" music, movies, and games for personal use.

Also, as I said before, the pricing for media is absolutely insane and unfair.

AFraud
my library had movies and cd's for borrowing since the early 90's.
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RiseAgainst12

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#124 RiseAgainst12
Member since 2007 • 6767 Posts
Good, it serves them right.MetalGear_Ninty
Maybe so but it doesn't boil down to that.. what baout other people in the house that use that connection? and don't illegally download, does it serve them right?
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LJS9502_basic

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#125 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

What are you talking about? Of course you are, HOW IN THE hell would they know if you pirating or not.. Oh thats right they have to look at your activity, where you go, what you download etc etc... This crime is completely different from the other such things.. It will grow as more people gain access.. These companies need to adapt, as shown in this market business have been able to grow and thirve even in this piracy environement..sSubZerOo
They are adapting. They aren't going to make everyone that pirates stop pirating. So steps have to be made to deal with thost that do....

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#126 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

And movies aren't created for society's good? You need to watch more movies. I would put some of the classics in the same category as literature.

AFraud

You do NOT have a right to entertainment. You pay for that.:|

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#127 deactivated-59d151f079814
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[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]What are you talking about? Of course you are, HOW IN THE hell would they know if you pirating or not.. Oh thats right they have to look at your activity, where you go, what you download etc etc... This crime is completely different from the other such things.. It will grow as more people gain access.. These companies need to adapt, as shown in this market business have been able to grow and thirve even in this piracy environement..LJS9502_basic

They are adapting. They aren't going to make everyone that pirates stop pirating. So steps have to be made to deal with thost that do....

No they are forcing the governments hand to spend enormous amounts of money to police a massive base that is not only a invasion of privacy but has never been proven to be effective. Thats not adapting their business model.. Thats lobbying legislation that is negatively affecting the consumer even if they don't want their products or don't pirate.

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MrGeezer

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#128 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

I don't pay for books most of the time. I take them out for free from the library. Lots of people do, and that hasn't stopped authors from writing.

The music and movie industries are greedy bastards. They're paid way too much for what little they provide to society.

AFraud

Newsflash....the movie and music industry is not for societies own good. You buy what you want with your money. If it's not worth your money...you do without. Simple really....

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

And movies aren't created for society's good? You need to watch more movies. I would put some of the classics in the same category as literature.

Movies also cost millions of dollars to make. Studios go out of business when not enough of their movies turn a profit. And that's to say nothing of the cinemas, which cost a lot of money to operate and actually show people the movies.

Where do you expect movies to come from? Who do you expect to put forward the money that it takes to make them?

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LJS9502_basic

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#129 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]What are you talking about? Of course you are, HOW IN THE hell would they know if you pirating or not.. Oh thats right they have to look at your activity, where you go, what you download etc etc... This crime is completely different from the other such things.. It will grow as more people gain access.. These companies need to adapt, as shown in this market business have been able to grow and thirve even in this piracy environement..sSubZerOo

They are adapting. They aren't going to make everyone that pirates stop pirating. So steps have to be made to deal with thost that do....

No they are forcing the governments hand to spend enormous amounts of money to police a massive base that is not only a invasion of privacy but has never been proven to be effective. Thats not adapting their business model.. Thats lobbying legislation that is negatively affecting the consumer even if they don't want their products or don't pirate.

All crime fighting requires government funds....
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AFraud

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#130 AFraud
Member since 2004 • 1500 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

And movies aren't created for society's good? You need to watch more movies. I would put some of the classics in the same category as literature.

LJS9502_basic

You do NOT have a right to entertainment. You pay for that.:|

Wow are you thick. So there aren't books that are written purely for entertainment that you can get for free at the library? The majority of fiction is purely for entertainment.

And you're trying to tell me a movie like Schindler's List wasn't created for the good of society?

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#131 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]They are adapting. They aren't going to make everyone that pirates stop pirating. So steps have to be made to deal with thost that do....

No they are forcing the governments hand to spend enormous amounts of money to police a massive base that is not only a invasion of privacy but has never been proven to be effective. Thats not adapting their business model.. Thats lobbying legislation that is negatively affecting the consumer even if they don't want their products or don't pirate.

All crime fighting requires government funds....

Except when its gonna be one of the most enormous costs out there, is gonna violate our privacy, and isn't going to be effective as shown time and time again?
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shoot-first

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#132 shoot-first
Member since 2004 • 9788 Posts

Good for them. I don't live in UK. :P

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#133 Triumph_United
Member since 2009 • 156 Posts

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Newsflash....the movie and music industry is not for societies own good. You buy what you want with your money. If it's not worth your money...you do without. Simple really....

MrGeezer

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

And movies aren't created for society's good? You need to watch more movies. I would put some of the classics in the same category as literature.

Movies also cost millions of dollars to make. Studios go out of business when not enough of their movies turn a profit. And that's to say nothing of the cinemas, which cost a lot of money to operate and actually show people the movies.

Where do you expect movies to come from? Who do you expect to put forward the money that it takes to make them?

As movie sells are showing people are willing to pay for movies even when the movie is clearly nothing more than a profit turner IE Transformers 2.
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#134 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="AFraud"]

No the movie and music industries fall into the same category as authors. They create intellectual property. But they have this massively inflated impression of themselves and think they deserve more money, and charge insane prices for their stuff that they don't deserve.

And movies aren't created for society's good? You need to watch more movies. I would put some of the classics in the same category as literature.

AFraud

You do NOT have a right to entertainment. You pay for that.:|

Wow are you thick. So there aren't books that are written purely for entertainment that you can get for free at the library? The majority of fiction is purely for entertainment.

And you're trying to tell me a movie like Schindler's List wasn't created for the good of society?

I remember seeing Schindler's List at the theater and I remember the ticket costing about $7.

I remember buying Schindler's List and the DVD costing almost $20.

Looks to me like it was still created to make money.

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LJS9502_basic

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#135 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

Wow are you thick. So there aren't books that are written purely for entertainment that you can get for free at the library? The majority of fiction is purely for entertainment.

And you're trying to tell me a movie like Schindler's List wasn't created for the good of society?

AFraud

Books aren't written only for libraries. They are written to find an audience and turn a profit. Schinler's List was filmed to find an audience and turn a profit.

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Toriko42

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#136 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts

It's not going to work. Regardless of what they do, people are going to find a way around it.

skelebull3000
Yeah totally, I'm not worried about piracy laws ever
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xTheExploited

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#137 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts
My sister downloads like a maniac so my Firefox and IE have been cut off. I'm using Google Chrome for God's sake! :cry:
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jimmyjammer69

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#138 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Dude, I KNOW musicians. I don't know where you are getting the idea that amateur artists of any kind don't have to actually hold real jobs, but they often do. There are people who have to work 60-70 hours a week just to pay their bills, never mind funding their art. And a few hours a week WON'T get you to the top of your game. I know people who THINK that's enough, and they also suck.

And your argument isn't even internally consistent. You talk about how the unpopular artist SHOULD be making millions of dollars (which is a weird position, seeing as how people aren't spending millions of dollars on their music). But the second that guy signs a contract with a major record company, he's somehow just another artist who is only in it for the money. Those two positions are certainly at odds with each other.

But the fact remains...if some unknown amatuer artist "should be selling millions", then why doesn't he just cut out the middle man, and make his millions without even bothering with the record companies? I mean, if the record companies actually don't do a damn thing to benefit the artist or to get the art to the consumer, then it's sort of odd that people still bother with them, isn't it?

MrGeezer

Where are you getting this stuff? When did I say amateur musicians don't need to have jobs? You KNOW musicians? Well, I guess that makes you the authority to say all amateur musicians suck... or maybe it's just your friends that suck at music. I can imagine that if they need to work 70 hour weeks to keep their heads above water, then they probably aren't going to have any energy to devote to their talents, but for those of us not living in sweat shops, life really isn't that hard.

Did I say they should be making millions of dollars or SELLING millions of songs? In case you haven't worked it out yet, I believe that music is massively overpriced thanks to all the leeches attached to the musicians. Yes, I do believe that the vast majority of mainstream music is unimaginative crap, usually pumped out by people who've let go of all their artistic integrity to float at the top of the charts as they've been encouraged to do by the companies who are profiting off them. I don't get how there's any inconsistency whatsoever in there.

Seeing as this argument with you basically involves trying to explain how you've exaggerated, misrepresented or plain fabricated every view of mine that you're supposedly countering, there's really not a lot left to discuss. I think you understand perfectly what I'm saying and that in your heart of hearts, you totally agree, so let's end this little exchange of views right here :)

Pot calling the kettle black, seeing as how you repeatedly misrepresented my posts in order to say that I was claiming that you have to be rich to be good (I have never said ANYTHING of the sort). So don't you dare try to point the finger at me and accuse me of intentionally misrepresenting your posts.

And as to the "selling millions" thing, your attitude is sort of strange.

Yes, I was wrong. I reread your post and it turns out you DIDN'T say that they should be making millions of dollars. Just that they should be selling millions of songs. I'm assuming that you really mean that millions of people are BUYING the songs, since someone who is prolific enough to have millions of songs to sell is going to be making nothing but crap.

But that's sort of a strange position. If a song costs a dollar, and someone who sells millions of songs should NOT be making millions of dollars, then exactly how much money do you think should be going to the actual artist? Weren't you the one who was previously complaining about how the majority of profit made from the sales of songs doesn't go to the artist?

So hey dude, suppose that I as an artist manage to cut the record company out entirely, and get my music available to millions of people all by myself. This is a pretty unlikely scenario, but it follows that it should be attainable if the record companies truly are worthless and do not in fact benefit me as an artist. So, supposing that when someone buys one of my songs or album that all of the money goes to me, the artist, how much money should I be able to make? If a million people purchase one song from me, then how much should that song cost?

And that's the big question... to me, a thousand songs for a thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Prices are only so high because each stage takes it's cut, and half those stages are now completely unnecessary. I'm sick of the record companies protecting their backs under the guise of caring for creativity, and I find the fact that legislation's being made to protect their interests thanks to their various lobbies sinister, especially when it leads to ISPs being forced to disclose private details of their customers.
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LJS9502_basic

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#139 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

And that's the big question... to me, a thousand songs for a thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Prices are only so high because each stage takes it's cut, and half those stages are now completely unnecessary. I'm sick of the record companies protecting their backs under the guise of caring for creativity, and I find the fact that legislation's being made to protect their interests thanks to their various lobbies sinister, especially when it leads to ISPs being forced to disclose private details of their customers. jimmyjammer69
It's one dollar a song. Which is not high. If you don't have a thousand dollars...just buy the songs you especially like. When did it become justification to take what has a value for nothing just because one doesn't want to spend the money?

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#140 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Good, it serves them right.RiseAgainst12
Maybe so but it doesn't boil down to that.. what baout other people in the house that use that connection? and don't illegally download, does it serve them right?

There is only one person (possibly more) in a house who is entitled to the internet connection, and that's whoever pays for it. It is also that person's responsibilty to ensure that nobody consistently misuses his/her connection.
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#141 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

And that's the big question... to me, a thousand songs for a thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Prices are only so high because each stage takes it's cut, and half those stages are now completely unnecessary. I'm sick of the record companies protecting their backs under the guise of caring for creativity, and I find the fact that legislation's being made to protect their interests thanks to their various lobbies sinister, especially when it leads to ISPs being forced to disclose private details of their customers. jimmyjammer69

But there's the thing...if all of these stages are unnecessary, then WHY aren't these stages cut out?

Look dude, CDs are going to cost about what they cost now, because people actually buy them at that price. Say $13 on average. If the record companies aren't necessary, and do not do anything for the artist, then WHY would artists keep choosing to sign up with these companies and give them the majority of the profits?

If all of these stages are actually so unnecessary, then don't you find it a bit strange that artists are still signing deals with these record companies?

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deshields538

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#142 deshields538
Member since 2005 • 8699 Posts

This is why proxy servers were invented.

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jimmyjammer69

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#143 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]And that's the big question... to me, a thousand songs for a thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Prices are only so high because each stage takes it's cut, and half those stages are now completely unnecessary. I'm sick of the record companies protecting their backs under the guise of caring for creativity, and I find the fact that legislation's being made to protect their interests thanks to their various lobbies sinister, especially when it leads to ISPs being forced to disclose private details of their customers. LJS9502_basic

It's one dollar a song. Which is not high. If you don't have a thousand dollars...just buy the songs you especially like. When did it become justification to take what has a value for nothing just because one doesn't want to spend the money?

I'm not talking at all about justification, but I think high prices contribute to the amount of piracy on the web. If a song cost 10c, I don't believe so many people would pirate. But then... that would really involve the industry getting lean.
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LJS9502_basic

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#144 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]And that's the big question... to me, a thousand songs for a thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Prices are only so high because each stage takes it's cut, and half those stages are now completely unnecessary. I'm sick of the record companies protecting their backs under the guise of caring for creativity, and I find the fact that legislation's being made to protect their interests thanks to their various lobbies sinister, especially when it leads to ISPs being forced to disclose private details of their customers. jimmyjammer69

It's one dollar a song. Which is not high. If you don't have a thousand dollars...just buy the songs you especially like. When did it become justification to take what has a value for nothing just because one doesn't want to spend the money?

I'm not talking at all about justification, but I think high prices contribute to the amount of piracy on the web. If a song cost 10c, I don't believe so many people would pirate. But then... that would really involve the industry getting lean.

Would you want paid a fraction of 10 cents for your work?

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jimmyjammer69

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#145 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]And that's the big question... to me, a thousand songs for a thousand dollars sounds like a lot of money, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Prices are only so high because each stage takes it's cut, and half those stages are now completely unnecessary. I'm sick of the record companies protecting their backs under the guise of caring for creativity, and I find the fact that legislation's being made to protect their interests thanks to their various lobbies sinister, especially when it leads to ISPs being forced to disclose private details of their customers. MrGeezer

But there's the thing...if all of these stages are unnecessary, then WHY aren't these stages cut out?

Look dude, CDs are going to cost about what they cost now, because people actually buy them at that price. Say $13 on average. If the record companies aren't necessary, and do not do anything for the artist, then WHY would artists keep choosing to sign up with these companies and give them the majority of the profits?

If all of these stages are actually so unnecessary, then don't you find it a bit strange that artists are still signing deals with these record companies?

I don't find it strange really. Musicians needn't be the sharpest tools in the box. I think a new form of distribution is beginning to be shaped and there are musicians out there beginning to experiment with the alternatives. Music will drop in price as long as the tools for piracy are available. Already we can see companies employing flexible pricing policies for different countries in music, film and games. A CD, as somebody mentioned, is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.

Once there are systems in place providing artists with a means of recouping a greater share of profits directly, record companies as we know them will begin losing clients. It just takes a few intelligent high-profile musicians to show how it's possible. That's my take on it anyway, and what I'm really hoping will happen.

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jimmyjammer69

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#147 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]It's one dollar a song. Which is not high. If you don't have a thousand dollars...just buy the songs you especially like. When did it become justification to take what has a value for nothing just because one doesn't want to spend the money?

LJS9502_basic

I'm not talking at all about justification, but I think high prices contribute to the amount of piracy on the web. If a song cost 10c, I don't believe so many people would pirate. But then... that would really involve the industry getting lean.

Would you want paid a fraction of 10 cents for your work?

Depends on how large the fraction is. If you look back to the chart I posted, musicians are already paid a pretty small percentage of song revenues. Now, seeing as digital distribution potentially ploughs through physical distribution, printing costs, packaging and retail markup, the musician could theoretically be earning 9 of those 10c himself. Maybe that's idealistic, but it's certainly the way I think things should be.
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LJS9502_basic

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#148 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178846 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]I'm not talking at all about justification, but I think high prices contribute to the amount of piracy on the web. If a song cost 10c, I don't believe so many people would pirate. But then... that would really involve the industry getting lean.jimmyjammer69

Would you want paid a fraction of 10 cents for your work?

Depends on how large the fraction is. If you look back to the chart I posted, musicians are already paid a pretty small percentage of song revenues. Now, seeing as digital distribution potentially ploughs through physical distribution, printing costs, packaging and retail markup, the musician could theoretically be earning 9 of those 10c himself. Maybe that's idealistic, but it's certainly the way I think things should be.

It's a dime. Oh come on....that's not even fair to the artist to expect them to make so little.
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Murj

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#149 Murj
Member since 2008 • 4557 Posts

This completely sucks.

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69ANT69

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#150 69ANT69
Member since 2007 • 8472 Posts
Good, maybe this will put a stop to piracy.