Romney Manages to Piss off Both Big Bird and Levar Burton

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#101 Posted by Abbeten (3140 posts) -
The fact that he went for PBS as his main area to cut shows how deeply unserious he is about the budget deficit.
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#102 Posted by Nuck81 (6615 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]are you aware that educators are paid and told what to do by the government?airshocker

What??!!!?!!!!? SINCE WHEN?!?!?! Maybe there's a reason our education system sucks so badly.

I hope you're trolling. The ENTIRE Public Education system is funded by tax revenue and run by the Government. When Education becomes private an for profit, it turns into what the United States Secondary Education is now. An Overpriced, Underachieving calamity.
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#103 Posted by Allicrombie (26205 posts) -

I don't get why people are getting worked up over PBS. Nobody even watches that channel anymore. It should be privately funded.

Pirate700
I watch it. =P
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#104 Posted by Jandurin (95559 posts) -

Jand probably enjoys Vegemite or something equally repulsive.

Aljosa23
never had

Yet you support a man that has openly said that 47% of the population are leachers, people who more or less don't work or underwork who want a welfare state..

sSubZerOo
no no no i saw on the tv today in the break room that he rescinded that comment and loves all 100% of us equally
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#105 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]are you aware that educators are paid and told what to do by the government?Nuck81

What??!!!?!!!!? SINCE WHEN?!?!?! Maybe there's a reason our education system sucks so badly.

I hope you're trolling. The ENTIRE Public Education system is funded by tax revenue and run by the Government. When Education becomes private an for profit, it turns into what the United States Secondary Education is now. An Overpriced, Underachieving calamity.

:lol:

That's a good one.

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#106 Posted by Allicrombie (26205 posts) -
[QUOTE="Jandurin"] i saw on the tv today in the break room that he rescinded that comment and loves all 100% of us equally

LOL sure he does.
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#107 Posted by Perfect_Blue (29102 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]are you aware that educators are paid and told what to do by the government?Nuck81

What??!!!?!!!!? SINCE WHEN?!?!?! Maybe there's a reason our education system sucks so badly.

I hope you're trolling. The ENTIRE Public Education system is funded by tax revenue and run by the Government. When Education becomes private an for profit, it turns into what the United States Secondary Education is now. An Overpriced, Underachieving calamity.

What? The only "for-profit" American schools are degree mills like DeVry or ITT Tech which are awful. If you're talking about places like Harvard or Columbia, those are private but not for profit.

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#108 Posted by TacticalDesire (10713 posts) -

Let me just say something to all of you:

I consider every single one of you to be friends. Yes, I dislike most of your politics, and yes I trade insults with all of you, but I'd never wish for any of you to be unemployed, lose your homes, or anything bad to happen to any of you. Despite the times where I'm made to look stupid.

I simply think there is a better way to go. I want all of you to achieve your dreams, I simply think there's a better way to do it.

airshocker

I don't want you to lose your job either. Also, I don't think you will regardless of who is elected president.

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#109 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -
Jon Chait said it best, "Romney is a candidate of a 20 percent cut in tax rates, a new plan to cover people with preexisting conditions, and higher defense spending, and he will accomplish it all by eliminating federal funding for PBS."
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#110 Posted by Nuck81 (6615 posts) -

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

What??!!!?!!!!? SINCE WHEN?!?!?! Maybe there's a reason our education system sucks so badly.

Aljosa23

I hope you're trolling. The ENTIRE Public Education system is funded by tax revenue and run by the Government. When Education becomes private an for profit, it turns into what the United States Secondary Education is now. An Overpriced, Underachieving calamity.

What? The only "for-profit" American schools are degree mills like DeVry or ITT Tech which are awful. If you're talking about places like Harvard or Columbia, those are private but not for profit.

They make Money. So do "State" Colleges. They make money off the students, from the students, and for most with little regard as to how their students progress, if they learn, or if they even go to class.
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#111 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

I am sorry but you are overexaggerating things. And PBS is not the best news source either despite what some people claim, it's almost as biased as FOX, just toward the liberal slant. Independent funded companies are also baised to the people who donate them money, so they will of course support people their views.

PBS will be fine regardless. But I'm voting Obama, not Romeny. Thought that being said, Romeny definitely won the debate, he was confident and prepared, Obama was not. His body language did not help him either.

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#112 Posted by jeremiah06 (7172 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Wouldn't it be a cruel twist of karma that if Romney won, Airshocker was laid off from his government job through the cuts Romney wants to put in place? airshocker

Wow, that's pretty fvcked up. I don't think I've ever wished for any of you to be unemployed.

Yet the irony is clear... Government cutting funding to pbs will mean people losing their jobs... Cruel as it may sound the same as cutting police funding... The fact that his comments hit you should at least allow you to see what pbs feels... We tend to think of things as processes and procedures but people and lives are involved...
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#113 Posted by jeremiah06 (7172 posts) -

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Let me just say something to all of you:

I consider every single one of you to be friends. Yes, I dislike most of your politics, and yes I trade insults with all of you, but I'd never wish for any of you to be unemployed, lose your homes, or anything bad to happen to any of you. Despite the times where I'm made to look stupid.

I simply think there is a better way to go. I want all of you to achieve your dreams, I simply think there's a better way to do it.

sSubZerOo

Yet you support a man that has openly said that 47% of the population are leachers, people who more or less don't work or underwork who want a welfare state.. To me it sounds like your just calling it something else.. That you don't want to see people of PBS to go unemployed but you want them to be unfunded the $400 million they get, which will undoubtably lead to unemployment of them.. Same goes for numerous out right cuts of programs.. That is basically a round about "guiltless" way of saying it though.. Same goes for public sector jobs like teachers, in which they have been scapegoated as some how lazy bad leaches that do not contribute and have a apparently cushy lifestyle.. You may claim to care about people employed, yet the policies and platform you support states other wise.. And quite many of the people who are struggling have been labeled by the said side as stupid, lazy, or a leach.. This is the rhetoric that has been flying around for months now..

Truth
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#114 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

If enough people actually care about PBS to justify its existence, it can get by just fine on private funding. People shouldn't be forced by law to fund a television channel that they have no interest in. That's an assault on economic freedom. That said, there are other assaults on our economic freedom (e.g. the military budget, welfare) that should be handled first. PBS is a distraction from much more serious problems.

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#115 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -
If enough people actually care about PBS to justify its existence, it can get by just fine on public funding. People shouldn't be forced by law to fund a television channel that they have no interest in. That's an assault on economic freedom. That said, there are other assaults on our economic freedom (e.g. the military budget, welfare) that should be handled first. PBS is a distraction from much more serious problems.Laihendi
That thinking can apply to all government spending....
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#116 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]If enough people actually care about PBS to justify its existence, it can get by just fine on public funding. People shouldn't be forced by law to fund a television channel that they have no interest in. That's an assault on economic freedom. That said, there are other assaults on our economic freedom (e.g. the military budget, welfare) that should be handled first. PBS is a distraction from much more serious problems.Person0
That thinking can apply to all government spending....

What is your point?
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#117 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -
[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]If enough people actually care about PBS to justify its existence, it can get by just fine on public funding. People shouldn't be forced by law to fund a television channel that they have no interest in. That's an assault on economic freedom. That said, there are other assaults on our economic freedom (e.g. the military budget, welfare) that should be handled first. PBS is a distraction from much more serious problems.Laihendi
That thinking can apply to all government spending....

What is your point?

Then the government should not exist to you because all government spending is an assault on economic freedom.
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#119 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -
[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Person0"] That thinking can apply to all government spending....

What is your point?

Then the government should not exist to you because all government spending is an assault on economic freedom.

Certain government organizations can protect our freedom, such as a military and a court system. That's about it.
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#120 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] What is your point?

Then the government should not exist to you because all government spending is an assault on economic freedom.

Certain government organizations can protect our freedom, such as a military and a court system. That's about it.

Lol, thats incredibly naive to think that modern life would be possible with only a military and a court system from the government.
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#121 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Person0"] Then the government should not exist to you because all government spending is an assault on economic freedom.Person0
Certain government organizations can protect our freedom, such as a military and a court system. That's about it.

Lol, thats incredibly naive to think that modern life would be possible with only a military and a court system from the government.

If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.

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#122 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] Certain government organizations can protect our freedom, such as a military and a court system. That's about it.Laihendi

Lol, thats incredibly naive to think that modern life would be possible with only a military and a court system from the government.

If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.

No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......
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#123 Posted by LJS9502_basic (159271 posts) -
Government needs to start cutting.....
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#124 Posted by TopTierHustler (3894 posts) -

Right wing = anti-intellectual.

Been this way for a while.

Not surprised they'd oppose educational programming like Nova while saying honey boo boo is good for the free market.

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#125 Posted by Jolt_counter119 (4226 posts) -

Government needs to start cutting.....LJS9502_basic

Where it would make a difference.

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#126 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] Lol, thats incredibly naive to think that modern life would be possible with only a military and a court system from the government.Person0

If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.

No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.
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#127 Posted by Person0 (2944 posts) -

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.Laihendi
No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? A lot..............................Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? Compared to what is available for people now, those things would only be for certain people.. I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive. How?

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#128 Posted by Perfect_Blue (29102 posts) -

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.

Laihendi

No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.

Gotta love 15 year old "Libertarians" on the internet.

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#129 Posted by Pikdum (2244 posts) -

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

Cutting $400 million dollars will help with a trillion dollar deficit. Um, not so much. The value of PBS is far more than simple the cost from the federal government, especially since it's so little compared to other programs.

Romney wants to come across as a fiscal hawk, but saying baldly on national television that you are going to axe PBS is idiotic.

airshocker

There is no value in state-sponsored television. There shouldn't even be ANY funding for any type of media. Media should be objective and not beholden to the government because of where it's funding comes from.

I disagree. I would love to see America have a fair and professional news source similar to BBC in the UK. You just can't seem to get that with corporate media, they dictate who gets coverage and what gets covered.

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#130 Posted by LJS9502_basic (159271 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Government needs to start cutting.....Jolt_counter119

Where it would make a difference.

Cut enough "minor" programs and it will....
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#131 Posted by Perfect_Blue (29102 posts) -

[QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Government needs to start cutting.....LJS9502_basic

Where it would make a difference.

Cut enough "minor" programs and it will....

I think you're overestimating how much funding PBS gets. It's literally 0.012% of the budget. You're going to have to cut A LOT of minor programs to even make a dent in the deficit.

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#132 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Person0"] No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......Aljosa23

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.

Gotta love 15 year old "Libertarians" on the internet.

1. That's an appeal to ridicule. It contributes nothing to this discussion and refutes none of the things I have said. 2. I'm not 15, so what you're saying is false in addition to being irrelevant.
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#133 Posted by Jandurin (95559 posts) -
Laihendi are you 16
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#134 Posted by LJS9502_basic (159271 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]

Where it would make a difference.

Aljosa23

Cut enough "minor" programs and it will....

I think you're overestimating how much funding PBS gets. It's literally 0.012% of the budget. You're going to have to cut A LOT of minor programs to even make a dent in the deficit.

Every little bit helps.....
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#135 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -
[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Laihendi are you 16

Sure I'll go with 16.
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#136 Posted by hoola (6422 posts) -

Wow I actually agree with him on something. The US government should be borrowing hundreds of billions so they can fund a public television channel (along with other things).

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#137 Posted by Abbeten (3140 posts) -
[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.Laihendi
No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.

This is lovely. I love internet libertarians.
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#138 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Person0"] No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......Abbeten
What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.

This is lovely. I love internet libertarians.

1. That's an appeal to ridicule. It contributes nothing to this discussion and refutes none of the things I have said.Laihendi

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#139 Posted by Abbeten (3140 posts) -

I love internet libertarians because they will always substitute ideology for practicality. They will disregard history and experience and empirical data in favor of a nigh-religious concept of the individual. Does it matter that the FDA is a necessary corrective to market forces that incentivize food and drug providers to cut corners with regards to sanitation and safety? No, because clearly eliminating it and 'increasing our freedoms' will lead to even better food and medication! Never mind the fact that this hasn't been true at all in our own country's history, let alone that of Europe or Asia. **** an Upton Sinclair. It doesn't matter that left to it's own devices, a free market will either fail to provide public goods like roads and other infrastructure or inefficiently allocate land resources to do so. I love internet libertarians because they've never heard of a collective action problem.

I think there's a lot to sympathize with in libertarianism. But they are far, FAR too dogmatic and stringently ideological to ever accomplish anything meaningful.

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#140 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] If by modern life you mean life in an authoritarian regime that is so irresponsible with managing our money that it's 15 trillion dollars in debt, then obviously I am not an advocate of modern life.

Laihendi

No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.

So if I'm a private road corporation what's my incentive to build roads where I do not believe it will be profitable for me?

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#141 Posted by Jolt_counter119 (4226 posts) -

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Cut enough "minor" programs and it will....LJS9502_basic

I think you're overestimating how much funding PBS gets. It's literally 0.012% of the budget. You're going to have to cut A LOT of minor programs to even make a dent in the deficit.

Every little bit helps.....

Why? Right now it seems like there should be more focus put in other areas like education and medicare (yes I know, we already spend a lot on them) then worrying about debt. Debt is a problem but it really isn't that big of a deal that will do major damage to the country. Economic growth would be better to solve it than cutting Scientific funding, NASA, PBS, and other small cuts.

Ideally if cuts were made imo military is a no brainer, but it doesn't look like that's happening.

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#142 Posted by Allicrombie (26205 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Person0"] No, i mean life where you have safe food, safe water, running water, electricity, relative safety from being harmed by other people, roads , education, safe air to breathe etc etc......worlock77

What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.

So if I'm a private road corporation what's my incentive to build roads where I do not believe it will be profitable for me?

how else are people gonna get to their commercial and industrial zones?
Avatar image for worlock77
#143 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] What does the government have to do with food, water, electricity, roads, or education? Do you really think those things can't exist without the government? I forgot to mention police in addition to military and courts. A police force and court system are sufficient to ensure that people are as safe from being harmed by others as they can be, and that pollution is not excessive.Allicrombie

So if I'm a private road corporation what's my incentive to build roads where I do not believe it will be profitable for me?

how else are people gonna get to their commercial and industrial zones?

That can be profitable. But what incentive do I have to build a road out in the country where few people live? If I can only get tolls from 10 cars a day then it doesn't really seem worth it.

Avatar image for Laihendi
#144 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

[QUOTE="Allicrombie"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So if I'm a private road corporation what's my incentive to build roads where I do not believe it will be profitable for me?

worlock77

how else are people gonna get to their commercial and industrial zones?

That can be profitable. But what incentive do I have to build a road out in the country where few people live? If I can only get tolls from 10 cars a day then it doesn't really seem worth it.

The roads in those places are generally made out of dirt. They're not at all expensive to make or maintain.
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#145 Posted by l4dak47 (6838 posts) -
I find it really dumb since there's other things that we can make huge cuts to like our insanely over-bloated military.
Avatar image for Laihendi
#146 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

I love internet libertarians because they will always substitute ideology for practicality. They will disregard history and experience and empirical data in favor of a nigh-religious concept of the individual. Does it matter that the FDA is a necessary corrective to market forces that incentivize food and drug providers to cut corners with regards to sanitation and safety? No, because clearly eliminating it and 'increasing our freedoms' will lead to even better food and medication! Never mind the fact that this hasn't been true at all in our own country's history, let alone that of Europe or Asia. **** an Upton Sinclair. It doesn't matter that left to it's own devices, a free market will either fail to provide public goods like roads and other infrastructure or inefficiently allocate land resources to do so. I love internet libertarians because they've never heard of a collective action problem.

I think there's a lot to sympathize with in libertarianism. But they are far, FAR too dogmatic and stringently ideological to ever accomplish anything meaningful.

Abbeten
The free market is always efficient, whether you're dealing with food, medicine, roads, or whatever else.
Avatar image for Abbeten
#147 Posted by Abbeten (3140 posts) -
[QUOTE="Abbeten"]

I love internet libertarians because they will always substitute ideology for practicality. They will disregard history and experience and empirical data in favor of a nigh-religious concept of the individual. Does it matter that the FDA is a necessary corrective to market forces that incentivize food and drug providers to cut corners with regards to sanitation and safety? No, because clearly eliminating it and 'increasing our freedoms' will lead to even better food and medication! Never mind the fact that this hasn't been true at all in our own country's history, let alone that of Europe or Asia. **** an Upton Sinclair. It doesn't matter that left to it's own devices, a free market will either fail to provide public goods like roads and other infrastructure or inefficiently allocate land resources to do so. I love internet libertarians because they've never heard of a collective action problem.

I think there's a lot to sympathize with in libertarianism. But they are far, FAR too dogmatic and stringently ideological to ever accomplish anything meaningful.

Laihendi
The free market is always efficient, whether you're dealing with food, medicine, roads, or whatever else.

Yeah this is what I'm talking about. I love internet libertarians because they took econ 101 and stopped there. Nothing about externalities, nothing about market failures. The market is god, and mortals shall bendeth at the knee.
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#148 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Allicrombie"] how else are people gonna get to their commercial and industrial zones?Laihendi

That can be profitable. But what incentive do I have to build a road out in the country where few people live? If I can only get tolls from 10 cars a day then it doesn't really seem worth it.

The roads in those places are generally made out of dirt. They're not at all expensive to make or maintain.

That does not answer the question at all.

Avatar image for chessmaster1989
#149 Posted by chessmaster1989 (30204 posts) -

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]

I love internet libertarians because they will always substitute ideology for practicality. They will disregard history and experience and empirical data in favor of a nigh-religious concept of the individual. Does it matter that the FDA is a necessary corrective to market forces that incentivize food and drug providers to cut corners with regards to sanitation and safety? No, because clearly eliminating it and 'increasing our freedoms' will lead to even better food and medication! Never mind the fact that this hasn't been true at all in our own country's history, let alone that of Europe or Asia. **** an Upton Sinclair. It doesn't matter that left to it's own devices, a free market will either fail to provide public goods like roads and other infrastructure or inefficiently allocate land resources to do so. I love internet libertarians because they've never heard of a collective action problem.

I think there's a lot to sympathize with in libertarianism. But they are far, FAR too dogmatic and stringently ideological to ever accomplish anything meaningful.

Laihendi

The free market is always efficient, whether you're dealing with food, medicine, roads, or whatever else.

You should read up on market failures.

Avatar image for worlock77
#150 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]

I love internet libertarians because they will always substitute ideology for practicality. They will disregard history and experience and empirical data in favor of a nigh-religious concept of the individual. Does it matter that the FDA is a necessary corrective to market forces that incentivize food and drug providers to cut corners with regards to sanitation and safety? No, because clearly eliminating it and 'increasing our freedoms' will lead to even better food and medication! Never mind the fact that this hasn't been true at all in our own country's history, let alone that of Europe or Asia. **** an Upton Sinclair. It doesn't matter that left to it's own devices, a free market will either fail to provide public goods like roads and other infrastructure or inefficiently allocate land resources to do so. I love internet libertarians because they've never heard of a collective action problem.

I think there's a lot to sympathize with in libertarianism. But they are far, FAR too dogmatic and stringently ideological to ever accomplish anything meaningful.

Laihendi

The free market is always efficient, whether you're dealing with food, medicine, roads, or whatever else.

Yup. Enjoy paying tolls every few miles while you're on the road.