Minimum wage = poverty

But you should be able to pay the bills if you are working full time correct? Not exactly a career to be able to do the bare minimum is it?

Here's a decent map of how it's gone down. Now i don't support 15 bucks, i think that's overkill, but 7 bucks is not a living wage.

Link

So you are saying people shouldn't have to earn their living and just be handed it for showing up?

Giving people a means to endeavour to do better in order to make their lives better is a positive thing. It creates people willing to work.

And really, living on a budget is more than possible on minimum wage if one doesn't expect luxury goods as the norm. And one need not worry about staying at minimum wage for the rest of their lives if work hard and attempt to actually advance up in the company they work for. Hard work is always rewarded in non-union companies.

I am honestly really curious of this baffling mentality.. Who the **** says to them selves "Oh I am just making it, I am settled for life and have no wish to improve my situation".. Absolutely fucking no one, inless they are suffering from a mental illness.. This idea in raising the minimum wage equating to people not wishing to move up in the world is hilarious.. Expect luxury goods? What the hell does that even mean? Are you even aware of the buying power of the minimum wage?? Furthermore if your logic actually made sense, than people during the 1950's, 60's, 70's were all lazy assholes because the minimum wage had far FAR greater spending value than what it is today..

I think you misinterpreted what I said. I meant that people who WANT to have a better life should have to work for it, not just be handed it because they don't have the ability to live with fancy things.

... Fancy things? Yet again, we have people in this country working full time and they are eligible to receive things like food stamps.... By fancy things are we talking about FOOD?? Is that what you would consider a luxury item?

No. Smartphones, big screen TV's and brand name clothing. Something I see a lot of low-income people in THIS country endeavouring to acquire as much as they can of on their meager wage. Despite having to provide for a family.

The minimum wage for the province of Ontario went up to $11.25 on October 1st.

We aren't talking about "low" income people, we are talking about MINIMUM wage.. A minimum wage person has trouble even making the bills and being able to feed themselves.. Seriously wtf do you guys think your able to get with minimum wage in many parts of the country? Things like rent literally take up 40% or more of your yearly income on minimum wage.. Forget even trying to support some one else on that wage, your going to have trouble supporting your self already.. Between food, transport, utility bills, let alone emergencies that happen.. Etc etc.. This idea that the working poor who are struggling on minimum wage are doing so because they don't know how to spend money is absolute horse shit.. Sargon of Akkad discussed this exact same thing about the minimum wage in the UK in breaking down all the costs of living which led the working poor in having a extremely small amount of money to begin with to even "waste"..

To illustrate

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/14/where-the-poor-and-rich-spend-really-spend-their-money/

Well you're not. Those aren't career sustaining jobs. Minimum wage jobs will also NEVER catch up. So you have a choice. Get a goal. You don't have to go to college to get a decent paying job by the way. Learn a trade. Work for a government. But if fast food is all you aspire to do....then you'll get no sympathy from anyone.

Cost are always passed on to the consumers. Otherwise you'd put the companies out of business. Increased cost eats at profit. If you raise minimum wage then it pretty much is raised everywhere. The competition has to increase cost as well.

Should CEO's make as much as they do? No. But that isn't going to change. Not sure why they are in so much demand as to be offered what they get.

You should live within your means.

If Reaganomics would of never been allowed to fester inside this country we would of been looking at roughly a $20 minimum wage now. Bush just made it worse with supportive policies and outrageous war spending, Reagan was the real prick.

Trickledown weatlh was a complete lie.

LOL it trickled down....the politicians pissed on the tax payers.

lol, I suppose so. Just the wealth part was left out is all.

I was thinking of something like this:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=United+States&city=Tucson%2C+AZ

I'd like to see something similar for other countries. I see other other countries with higher minimum wage than the US. But, I also want to see what living expenses are. For example, some people have to pay monthly taxes just to own a TV. I can imagine how much I'd have to pay if I have a TV in every room.

It tabulates individual expenses. We could make an educated guess on realistic expenses and correlate that with minimum wage.

The costs related to the US labour done on said products yes. Imported goods shouldn't go up so much.

US distributors sell imported goods and likely hire American workers. The costs will go up across the board.

And who fucking cares? if I want to work in fast food my whole god damn life, thats MY choice, and I should atleast be able to support myself on that job.

I struggle on $21.50 p/h :\

The TC chose my answer as the best answer.

You can support yourself on any job if you don't waste money on things you can't afford. However, you take the job at the pay it offers. And fast food is not going to pay well. You can't have it both way.s

No one cares what job you have.....but we don't want to hear the whining that someone with no ambition thinks flipping burgers should pay him well.

Yes, and it's supposed to be. Even if it were raised, that's still what it will become anyway.

Why? because there is no perfect society, that would be communism.

If you can live comfortably off of minimum wage then no one would aspire to go to college or make anything of themselves. People would just do the least amount they would have to do to get themselves a low paying job right out of, or in some cases instead of graduating high school

So wrong on so many levels, sorry Fox but people need money to eat, live, pay bills ect ect and you're not gonna do that when majority of the jobs out there are minimum wage jobs/part time jobs so there's no "climbing the ladder" to a lot of people and the chances everyone "climbing the ladder" is...lets put it simple...not gonna happen. Have you been ignoring the last 6 years? cause you might have missed the part when even College grads were having a hard time landing jobs (even though it's slightly better now, a degree won't automatically land you a job).

I've been on both sides of the fence, I went from making $35,000 in 7 months (worked as a private contractor on a oil field, only did it for 7 months cause I wanted to move back closer to family) to making $11.88 and hour working around vegetables/fruit all day busting my ass off everyday lifting 50 pound boxes and I average around 14,000 steps a day at work (that's over 6 miles a day walking) and the arse holes that tell me my job is easy and I shouldn't be making livable wage are the worst beings on earth, oh and I forgot I have to make sure everything is not poisoned, needs to be recalled and in a eatable state.

I know some people are gonna QQ that fast food/retail jobs are easy and shouldn't be above minimum wage lvl, I wonder how many of those people have ever done that type of work, cause the amount of willpower you need to deal with the BS in society is just.....if I'd put a label on todays society it would be the equivalent to the people who post on 4chan, in fact if there was a layer under 4chan that's where I would put society at. Also I doubt any of those people have had to deal with cleaning a deep fryer......cause smelling like death after work is always amazing.

That is simply untrue, people can hardly afford, if afford at all, the bare minimums to survive. There is no excess of cash remaining. Perhaps you need to simply stop sounding judgmental towards these individuals. There is a difference between being paid "well" and being paid enough to actually live.

@StrifeDelivery:

This is simply untrue. You cannot make blanket statements. One who lives with their parents and pays no rent for instance could live on lower wages than someone paying rent.

Excess of cash has absolutely nothing to do with being able to live on one's wages. Hell there are people that never save money check to check and can afford to pay their bills. You are confusing money management with poverty. They are not the same.

My point stands. You HAVE to live within your means.

Nonetheless as I stated minimum wage jobs are not careers. They are for kids or supplemental income.

True. But who the **** wants to suck at life? I didn't stoop that low with my very first job.

I don't see the harm in raising the minimum wage so people can actually afford the bare minimum in life, Food, Clothes, Shelter, paying the bills and spare money for emergencies/savings/occasional recreational use.

I also think some of the excuses not to are illogical and baseless.
For being a country that always says " We care about eachother", You sure don't.

*sigh* Raising minimum wage does nothing in regard to one's economic situation. Increased costs merely mean the price of goods go up. When that happens the cost of living is increased and pay increases with it leaving the minimum wage job earner in the exact same position as before.

Minimum wage jobs are NOT meant to be a living wage. If you are an adult trying to maintain a home life you need to get a better job. And if you don't want to do anything more with your life than sling burgers and fries that's fine. But don't whine about your choice.

And if you are unable to get a better job because of lack of qualifications and your resume consists of minimum wage jobs?

I mean, it's exceptionally arrogant to say " Just get a better job then" if they are unable to do so and are stuck having to work 2-3 minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. What are they supposed to do if nobody wants to hire someone who's only jobs have been minimum wage?

@Treflis:

Then you keep trying. Honestly if you think you can successfully raise the minimum wage and NOT effect the economic system then I guess you haven't studied economics.

Of course it would affect the economical system, But then you take a look at what increase would be benefical for both the minimum wage and the inflation rate. Which would be the best balance for both.
Sure prices might go up a little, but if properly balanced the increased income from the minimum wage will stimulate the economy. Business might spend more on goods and yet gain a profit when the increase of minimum wage workers purchase or use their products.

Sounds alot better trying to do something like that, rather then going " **** em if they can't get a better job"

Prices would go up in proportion to the increased cost. It could also have the effect of some lost jobs. Business is NOT going to run at a loss to give unskilled labor a living wage. Most minimum wage jobs were traditionally done by retired seniors supplementing their social security or teens making some money. They aren't and shouldn't be a living wage.

And yet for about 20.6 million people they are.

Question is if something should be done so they can get a increase of income so they don't have to struggle as much to get the bare minimum of living.
I say Yes, you seem to say No.

Well that's the fault of the people that assume minimum wage jobs are good enough.

I'm saying that if you understand economics you would know that raising the minimum wage increases across the board and they will STILL be making a non sustainable wage if they have to depend on it for a career.

If you are on minimum wage now you need to do something to raise your living standard. Else you won't ever be able to stop working.

That is asinine. You do realize that the over whelming majority of jobs ARE minimum wage, right? And the majority of people have minimum wage jobs. You are just dumb. And most businesses can easily afford $15/h. If Reagan hadn't fucked up the way the economy works, we would already be at $15, at the very least.

Does it make you feel smarter to insult someone to help make your point? 4.7% is NOT an overwhelming majority. And most businesses can afford $15? Go to your local mom and pop shop and ask them if they can but you know the answer already

That is why I said MOST, not counting mom and pop shops. But bigger places like walmart and the like? Hell yeah they can. And right now, companies like those are receiving welfare checks...multi billion dollars corporations are getting welfare money...how about giving those welfare checks to the mom and pop shops to help pay there workers if they are having trouble doing so? And LJS IS dumb because he thinks everyone should be doctors, and CEOs. That is not how it works.

I'm sure there are mom and pop shops right now already having trouble with the minimum wage, and some businesses always will no matter what the minimum wage is so that's not a particularly good argument to make. Especially since small businesses (which mom and pop shops are) are actually in favour of raising the minimum wage to $12. The rationale is they want this because if people are making more money they will be spending more money at their stores, benefiting the company and increasing the bottom line.

Think you need to back up and realize that you are the one making blanket statements here, hence your "You can support yourself on any job if you don't waste money on things you can't afford". I said people can hardly afford, or afford at all, which means that it is a different situation for varying people, but the bottom line is that is that it is immensely difficult for a lot of individuals. Also, I'm not confusing money management with poverty. Congratulations, I know they are not the same, continue to bring up points that are not relevant to the situation. You keep talking about living within your means, which means nothing when at the end of the day the money they bring in doesn't pay the necessities to begin with. Also, you continue to sigh and tell people to understand economics when it comes to minimum wage jobs, when it seems that you are the one that does not understand the economics behind it.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

Most minimum wage positions in fast food offer training and advancement programs for those that work hard and want to pursue higher positions in the company. Most corporate-level employees of places like McDonald's or Super Store (here in Canada at least) started as burger flippers and cashiers.

I work hard to make my living. I expect everyone else to have to do the same.

The minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage it was a wage for an entry level person with no job skills. With the push to raise the minimum wage way beyond the entry job level, companies are eliminating those jobs. Fast food places are going to be fully automated very soon. and entry level jobs are going to require more education and skill which people applying for entry jobs will not have, so many people will stay poor with no hope of advancement.

@JimB: That's not true according to Franklin Delano Roosevelt who was the first president to get a minimum wage passed.

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."