Minimum wage = poverty

This, like it or not, is currently a true statement. My question is should the minimum wage mean a life of poverty? Something to consider is that it didn't originally start out this way.

This video led me to making this thread. It's worth the watch.

You can't make it alone on min wage. You need 2 or 3 people living together all making min wage to make it.

This thread will be fun

Cue some idiot ignoring reality and saying "you're not meant to make a career from minimum wage"

Minimum Wage is a very tricky subject. At one point in time minimum wage was considered a living wage. But in recent years wage increases have failed to keep up with inflation which has resulted in wages that don't meet the necessary standards needed to make it by. It isn't just minimum wage that is effected though. All wages across the board, minus the super rich, have pretty much been stalled. That means as inflation continues to rise even those making above minimum wage eventually won't be making enough to get by. While raising minimum wage would certainly be helpful it's only a stop gap measure unless we can either A. increase wages across the board or B. Control the level of inflation on goods and services. Unfortunately I don't know how to accomplish either of those things.

We absolutely know how to control inflation with relative precision over the long term (some high points and low points along the way notwithstanding). Zero percent inflation is almost universally considered to be a bad thing, however, and the target is currently set at 2%.

I believe we should do what Greece did and employ lots of people on government programs thus providing them with excellent wages, pensions, and other full benefits. Could raise the minimum wage to 40-50$/hour to help those make up the difference. It's total bullshit to say that jobs like mcDonald's, Wendy's, Burger king, etc. should be considered starter jobs. If we didnt have people working those jobs, how could you feed your obesity?

i've heard a lot of poor people have refrigerators and televisions. what kind of bullshit is that?

Hahaha, LOL.

OK, I know this reply was written in jest but I don't like that last line (And no, I'm not fat. Very much the opposite. So this is not an "I'm offended" thing). People railing on about cheap, high calorie food bug me cuz really it's an elitist thing. What's the alternative to consuming high calorie food for a decent price? Having to eat mounds of low calorie food for huge sums of money, that's what. If ya wanna eat nothing but nuts and veggies then you're gonna have to spend all damned day eating cuz your body does need around 2000 calories a day and it takes a lot of that stuff to get there. And you're gonna break your bank account doing it. And the obesity problem that the western world is facing right now is not because of fast food and junk food. Seriously, those things existed for decades before this was a big problem. The reason for it is lack of exercise. People spending lots of time on their phones, on their PC, playing video games, etc. Tech is making us fat, not McDonald's.

It does not necessarily mean a life of poverty, I had a time in my life where I was working 3 minimum wage jobs and going to college (100% funded by student loans) at the same time, it was rough but it enabled me to better my situation. I think the minimum wage sucks but at the same time I don't think there is an easy solution to the problem.

I guess we can distinguish between abject poverty and relative poverty. People getting minimum wage shouldn't be living in abject poverty: I think the U.S. as a whole has a strong enough economy to ensure than nobody here lives in abject poverty. On the other hand there will always be income inequality, and there should be some degree of income inequality. So people on minimum wage should be poorer in relation to most Americans.

Raising the minimum wage is a dilemma. On the one hand raising the wage would help the people who's wages are raised, on the other, a higher minimum wage raises the cost-per-employee, making employers less likely to higher and more likely to lay off.

Alright, let met raise this yet again - There is true poverty in this country. Not merely some lighthearted BS we laugh at and label "relative poverty" while we drop nudges and winks hinting that they're well off. We have true "going hungry" poverty in this country, and I find the nudges and winks about them being well off to be not only damaging but grimly disgusting.

I'm from Greece and you can forget the early pension.

As of this year it has been raised.

we're all footing the bill for these people one way or another.

if we keep the min. wage at poverty levels, we pay for them through social programs. in the video above essentially that means that taxpayers are subsidizing a portion of mcdonald's profits. if min. wage is increased to the point that businesses need to raise prices to meet salary requirements and maintain profitability, we pay with higher prices.

either way, we pay

People on minimum wage all need safety nets and government support, which in itself costs more than increasing it.

Except, increasing minimum wage could have devastating effects in trying to receive support. There are some people who hate relying on the government for support, like my mom which never got support when we were poor. Instead she worked 80+ hours/week at two jobs.

There's a lot more determining the price of goods and services than just employee wages. McDonald's entire business model is about moving large quantities of food at cheap price so they wouldn't go ahead and raise prices like that - they'd just eat the cost. A minimum wage increase would hit small mom and pop shops more than giant megacorps.

I'm not making the claim that you will never be able to get out of poverty, but if you had not gone to college you would still be in poverty today even while working three jobs.

This is a terrible problem for everyone in society. I think access to education can increase thinking capacity for people who otherwise would be only capable of working minimum wage jobs.

Platforms like edX and coursera are very helpful. If finances are too limiting for paying for college credit, University of the People is a tuition-free college, but even then prospective students should note that there are costs for every test and that can add to a few thousand dollars for the total degree program.

European countries offer tuition free schools for citizens and, in some cases, for international students as well (thank you, Germany as well as others). America can do it as well, but people want money more than societal improvement and think that organizational improvement is better than personal improvement when in fact personal improvement is better for society as noted with the improvements to the world due to the American Revolution and the example that the United States sets for other countries through its international influence.

Shit, I barely make it on $30.00 an hour....

The people talking bad about raising minimum wage/poor people are probably super privileged.

Minimum wage revenue is more a reasonable revenue.

@afrosamurai: or just see the negatives.

If you're over 24, and still working min. Wage, You are failing. If you are over 24 and still working at fast food restaurants, you are failing.

How many hours a week did you work? How many hours a week did you study?

correct, and I knew several guys who i worked with who also worked 2-3 jobs. The thing is I chose to go to college because I did not want to work 3 jobs my whole life and everyone who is in that situation can make the same choice. I had no money for tuition and had to borrow 100% of my college tuition, I am now at the point where I need to start paying it back and it is something I am dreading but regardless of that I am in a better situation today than I would have been if I had not went to college.

@horgen: I worked roughly 90 hours a week, I couldnt tell you how many hours I studied though, most of my classes had paper based assessments so I did not need to study much but did need to write a lot of papers.

Maybe she should have thought about how to raise a kid before she had sex and had a child with a felon.

So no empathy here , and if a min. wage job at McD is all she can get, she should be glad that she even had the chance to get a job.

Also Min wage is temp solution not something that people should ever want to make a career out of getting.

great. they're failing. feel better about yourself by putting them down now?

now that we're past that, what can we do to help?

if we don't and just point fingers and say "you're bad!" nothing gets solved and we all still pay

It also ends up hurting the little guy more than the big guy as well. The big guys could handle paying their employees the increased rate, but the smaller businesses probably could not.

I think the better question is what can they do to help themselves. The harsh reality of life is noone is going to help you and you can't rely on any outside entity to help you, you need to make the choice to help yourself, and there are a number of viable ways to do that.

I knew a few guys who worked at McDonalds and were working 2 other jobs, they eventually got themselves promoted to manager of Mcdonalds and no longer had to work 3 jobs. College loans are always an option if you want to go that route and you can take entry level civil service exams and try and find a better paying job that way, there are options, none of them are easy, but they exist.

As soon as the minimum wage was agreed to be raised to $15.00 an hour in NY some people went to their employer and ask that their hours be cut so they could keep their well fare and food stamps. Also more and more fast food companies are automating and eliminating patrons having an exchange with a human person. The minimum wage may be increased but who will be working a low level jobs to receive the wage?

agreed. poor choice of wording on my part.

"what can we do to help them help themselves?" would have been better. for example, adjusting the social benefits programs to remove incentives for people not to work ( sudden income cliffs ).

I can tell you how my grandparents did it as immigrants in 1960 with two children who barely spoke a word of English and barely had two nickles to rub together.

-Grandfather started working in a local food market in NY and was very poor

-Grandmother cooked very cheap but nutritious meals (rice, vegetables, limited meat, pasta, etc)

-They did not waste money on things the family did not absolutely need

-Even with the limited money they made, they managed to always put at least something away

-Time goes by, grandfather continues to work hard/steady and makes a little more money (still poor)

-Remaining frugal, they save even more money

-At some point the owner of the market is getting close to retirement, grandfather approaches works out a deal and buys the store using a combination of saved funds, small business loan, and ongoing payments

-Now a business owner, their wealth starts rapidly increasing

-Over the years, they continue to live within their means and saving money

-They both retire fairly well off to a beautiful neighborhood in Delray Beach, FL.

I used to speak to my grandparents a lot about stuff like this, and glad I did. I had a rough childhood and there was a million reasons why I should have failed...and if I focused on those reasons I surely would have. Doesn't mean there aren't roadblocks or additional hurdles that people in the lower economic rungs of society don't have to overcome to get ahead, however, for the vast majority of able bodied and mentally sound folks there is practically nothing actually stopping them, only themselves, their choices, and their own wills.

@comp_atkins: we more than likely already help. Welfare, food stamps, etc.

It shouldn't but what can "we" do, it's should what can "they do" Its not my job or respobilitie to help them through poor choices.

Removing the incentives that encourage people not to work would help. I forget how many states offer better government assistance than people who work 40hours a week. Frequent drug testing. Maybe some sort of government work program for the unemployed. We have too many taking advantage of the system.

i agree it is not your responsibility, but as a taxpayer ( i'm assuming you are a taxpayer ) you are helping to foot the bill. wouldn't you just for selfish reasons want to eliminate that cost burden on yourself?

@comp_atkins: I added more to my reply after seeing your next comment.

And of course I want to eliminate the cost ofbtakijg care of those people from my self. Some people are truley in need, most cases are poor choices. We need a better system that can't be so easily abused.

agreed, my best friend works for social services and the number of people abusing the system is absolutely disgusting, the sad thing about the current state of welfare is there are a lot of people who are in genuine need who are denied benefits because they do not know how to work the system, meanwhile you have loads of others manipulating and abusing the system.

The system is broken, but given the current political climate I do not ever see it being fixed.

Nice post. My view as well.

@Serraph105 said:

This, like it or not, is currently a true statement. My question is should the minimum wage mean a life of poverty? Something to consider is that it didn't originally start out this way.

This video led me to making this thread. It's worth the watch.

Loading Video...

Ok, this is why they are moving up the minimum wage dollar up. But where is the daddy child support ? That might help her lots.

Horseshit. What it means is you have to eat more basic foods like rice, pasta, chicken, frozen vegetables, potatoes, and things like that. People can absolutely eat nutritious, filling food for cheap...the problem in most cases is laziness.

And yes, while people living a more sedimentary lifestyle contributes, junk food is absolutely a contributing factor to the US's growing waist line.

Trying to live above your means = poverty, not minimum wage.

$7.50/h x 40 = $300 a week = $1,200 a month.

I wish I made $300 a week working only 40 hours.

she should have got an abortion if she cant afford a kid. Now there is yet another kid who has to grow up in poverty.

You're asking the wrong people. Everyone here is privileged, have been able to grow up and live a normal life and go to school without issue. No one here has struggled in life and they've always been used to living in a nice home, using the computer with fast internet. For real, who are you even asking?

Where do you live where you make less than that?

*citation needed

I feel like you're just making things up or repeating what you heard on fox to take a cheap dig at poor people.

Minimum wage is an absolute joke, you can't live on $9 or $10 an hour especially when most jobs these days are part time positions.

I've got a minimum wage job right now and thankfully I already have a place to stay at as paying for groceries and rent with this wage would be nigh impossible, especially in San Diego where the rent is absolutely ridiculous.

how could you possibly make that assumption? How many people here do you know in real life?

For real.

Having fast internet isn't really much of luxury these days, you can find it in nearly any reasonably sized city.

Minimum wage should be raised to account for inflation (the people taking these jobs tend to be in your late 20s to thirties as well as seniors, not your typical teenager) and work hours should be reduced from 40 to 30/35 imo.

As for shorter work hours, the 40 hour work week is an outdated concept, and by having shorter work hours for everyone, they could focus on other things such as relaxation, their children, education, and etc. Also shorter work weeks lead to better productivity among workers.