Logical Proof that God Created Nothing

I'm sure it did. However it seems like quite the mistake giving it to humans, unless he really really wanted to put in some serious design flaws.

Maybe God got bored and needed some entertainment? Therefore he created the universe.

Not always, they simply had to be present before or at the point at which the big bang occured. The big bang didn't create the materials in the universe, it was the rapid expansion of the existing materials. To say they always existed before that is incorrect because that is when the physical laws of our universe began, including time. To say they always existed before that is to say that the physical laws that preceded the big bang existed in the same ways that the physical laws the existed after the big bang do, which at best cannot be concretely known.

That being said, to respond to rabbit, is infinity necessarily a procession of time without end? I know it was conceived as such, but I believe that was oppositional thinking done without a knowledge of the operation of the laws of spacetime. In other words, they asked what is the opposite finitude and came up with the concept of infinity, which is still judged according to our laws of spacetime, hence the difficulty in imagining the concept. Perhaps a more accurate definition of infinity would be spacetime that acts according to different laws (or perhaps there simply was no spacetime before the big bang, I dunno, not a physicist). In that case, it makes some sense that god existed in the spacetime (or lack thereof) before the big bang and then decided to cause the big bang, it's essentially the same sort of problem physicists are dealing with in trying to answer why the big bang banged at all. I'm still not going to ascribe the big bang to an omnipotent deity, I just think it makes more sense than "god was sitting around jacking it when he suddenly decided to create stuff."

"Wait a minute! No, wait a minute! What is boredom? What is boredom? You're applying an anthropomorphic principle there. Boredom is an unpleasant emotion that Human beings feel, to coerce us into stimulating our brains and acquiring information, because our bodies suffer from atrophy if our organs are not being stimulated. That's what boredom is. Because the brain's not being stimulated enough, it will begin to decay due to atrophy if it's not stimulated. So basically boredom is a self-defense mechanism to make up for a deficiency that we have. A god would never ever get bored. Boredom is a trait that Human beings possess, and other animals too because they suffer from the same deficiencies that we do. So, it would never get bored."

Source of quote:

Here we go. This is awesome. This post highlights why it is so difficult to discuss a God in scientific terms.

We apply all of these human concepts to a being that, for all we know, could exist outside of the constraints of everything that we have known or could ever potentially know.

Even IF the Christian Bible is speaking of an actual extant God, if this God was in fact the creator of all things in our reality then perhaps the Bible is simply the misguided scribbling of men in the wake of discovering or experiencing something they could never have hoped to accurately define within the confines of human understanding. We're all debating how he could possibly defy natural laws when discussing a hypothetical being which would, if real, be in the position of "creator of everything." How do laws apply to such an entity? Who says that said entity does not exist outside of the influence of these things, or move in and out of the influence of them at will?

@BluRayHiDef: You can't compare a God to a human. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

I am not religious but evolution and the big bang theory have far more holes in it than creation does.

perfection is merely a human concept. if god exists, he may not fall into our "perfect" category at all.

lol

Why is god a "male"? If he created us in his image why are we not all male? Why do we look so different to each other?

Another point was made the other day to me; why would God create people to then "answer" their problems? Why create and allow for problems in peoples lives, why create such a divide from starving people to those who have more food and wealth than needed. Why "answer" peoples prayers for new nike trainers at Christmas but not anothers prayer to save their dying mother?

Honestly the problem with discussing the reality of God in the "Logical" sense is that God defies logic, his, her or its presence defies logic and reasoning so its really a pointless topic to try and discuss in that respect.

I don't think we can figure out god with our limited understandings.

@darkmark91: Fail. When did I compare god to a human?

Excuse me... what?

In the basis of this thread... your original premise is invalid, as 'desire' is a human construct.

Well something created the universe didn't it? What is the universe? Where is the exact point of the big bang? What created the big bang? How did those particles, atoms, gasses etc etc get created to supposedly create the big bang? How did they get there? What was there before that? You want me to believe the universe at one time didn't exist? Truth is nobody knows a thing, it's all theory and speculation on both sides. Lol logically there is more evidence that we are all inside a computer simulated matrix than anything else.

God is dead, as proven by EnigmaHood.

I would have to agree with this.

how dare you question magical space daddy!

magical space daddy loves you so much that he will kill you and have you tortured for eternity for doubting.

and why wouldn't a vastly superior supernatural being act just like a 14 year old girl?

what could make more sense?

yup!

@Riverwolf007: It's funny because typically some replies might have sounded something like this.

However, for a thread questioning the existence and nature of God, there has been very little of that.

You're right to question of course, but to state that creationist theory has less holes is disingenuous - it (creationism) merely relies on a single answer (a creator) to cover any and all eventualities - the scientific approach may well raise a multitude of questions, but that is it's nature, and it is based on logic, rather than unfounded speculation.

What I consider a common peculiar premise I have heard others say and others write has to do with limiting the Most High's abilities within the bounds of the universe He created. This one is like those past experiences. I believe He is not. I will say that if you read the direct translation of Genesis then you will probably be asking different questions.

Well creation unlike evolution doesn't have to rely on facts or actual data. With a few simple questions I can create holes the size of the grand canyon. Creation has to follow the path that has been laid out for it. Vs creation I am arguing against a wizard and his magick. Far far more possibilities.

@Assassin_87: @s_h_a_d_o: science can only speculate as to what created the mass expansion also, as science can only learn and explain what it can observe, and you can't observe what happened before the Big Bang. So all speculation as to the creation of the universe is unfounded.

@Assassin_87: yes I'm quite surprised that there hasn't been a lot more comments like Riverwolf007's. It's good that there hasn't been.

@br0kenrabbit: Maybe god is effected by time differently then we are ?

The answer is, we know the big bang happened, we do not know how. Not knowing an answer and understanding that it is okay not to know is better than making up an answer to feel fuzzy inside. Curious also as to why you say "the universe at one time didnt exist." As it does now, of course it didn't exist. Maybe this is just one 'atom' inside another universe, that existed forever. There doesn't need to be a creation point...asserting that there does is dishonest because you can't possibly know that right now.

@BluRayHiDef:

My definition of a perfect being would include being all-good or omnibenevolent.

And God is said to be omnibenevolent, and so the desire to do good or for good things to happen would flow out of this aspect of His nature, would it not?

One such desire that may flow out of this aspect of His nature would be to create free agents who may--if they so wish--establish a relationship with Himself, the source of all beauty, goodness, etc., basking in His perfection for all eternity, absolutely fulfilled. Wouldn't such an act by God be noble? Beautiful? Benevolent? And the fact that He doesn't need anything just accentuates this point. God is a being that needs nothing and yet and He created us. Why? For OUR sakes. That's why. Have you never heard of altruism?

So, as you can see, I reject your notion that a perfect being cannot have desires. If your definition of a perfect being includes omnibenevolence, then I don't see why you would think such a being wouldn't possess desires for the reasons I've described above.

@BluRayHiDef: He hasnt proved anything, its just a decent point but not empirical, its a philosophical video

Yeah I agree.

Using Creation as a single answer is not the way to do it. It would mean you have an answer first before asking the question. If we used that logic for everything we would never discover ayhthing

OK, so let me see if I get this.

You try to narrow down whatever reasons for creation exists into just 2 (that is one brave assumption).

And then tell us that, if we don't accept this, then we must leave?.

So, in other words, if we don't accept a major flaw in your argument, we must leave. Hah, thats a nice way to cover your ass.

That is basically like saying "I bet you guys can't enter my house when I'm gone! but you can't use the doors or windows or any hole in which you could fit through!"

Mind-boggling, isn't it? :/

But big bang is a theory there is no fact really to back up the claim. They say the universe is speeding up and expanding(I did read though they say it was slowing down) because of big bang. But they cannot find big bang origin, outer rim of universe etc etc. They base all math off speed of light but then I read speed of light barrier can be broken. The math does not remain constant. They cannot plot the known universe as we know it, they cannot understand many things in our known universe but yet you think they know the creation of the universe lol many things on earth they don't even understand.

Just to momentarily interject:

Do not confuse the colloquial meaning of "theory" with the scientific use of the word. Within science, a theory is the highest level of certainty which a concept can reach.

i believe there is a higher power... just not exactly in the religious way.......we will never know or understand because its beyond our knowledge... and we too far away from the past.... documents of original presentation has been destroyed thanks to the eruopeans

@blutfahne:

To expand on what Above says, the Earth Revolving around the Sun is a Theory,but its not doubted by anyone of sane mind and accepted as fact.

the original religion the europeans had destroyed 8 books and got the bible and put it in their own words... and then they started using religion for profit and control.. when someone was a slave they didnt know it. its not like what you see on the movies like . " im a slave i want to be free"

@dennysinny: Did they ? How do you know this ?

Also using Religion for Profit and Control is not unique to Europe

same way you know the things you know ? by studying ..... history besides what they tell you at school to brain washing to think that christopher columbus is a hero !

(palm on the face )

lol it has a lot to do with it but okay... i can see you haven't look back far away enough in history there is not point of debating ....

i never said it didnt originate from there....

everything you just quickly popped in Wikipedia and saw those religions

suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... you didnt ... your just mad because you got busted !

i never said they were the first.... of course they put it in their own words... because that what is has originated from....

According to that, a perfect being cannot be unhappy. It just sounds... wrong.