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Nirgal

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#1 Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 687 Posts

After the Palestine- Israel war started, it seems like public attention on the invasion of Ukraine has completely disappeared.

Support has run dry as well, with the USA senate rejecting the further support for Ukraine for now.

Putin's hope to outlast the west in the war seems to be going well and it seems he will succeed in consolidating the Territories he has taken as well perhaps conquering more of them.

It seems the west is quite weak and will not accept even Minor economical costs for protecting the current order.

This is likely to further incentivize other countries such as china to also engage in expansive military actions as they known resistance will be short-lived.

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uninspiredcup

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#2 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58988 Posts

No.

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mrbojangles25

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#3 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58328 Posts

No, but he might. Especially if the GOP tries to cut off aid in an effort to help out their buddy Putin.

People seem to be under the impression that "_ billion dollars" of aid to Ukraine means we are giving them giant crates of cash and taking away from the American people.

We aren't. We are giving them aid. This means outdated military equipment and other material that we would otherwise mothball. Cannon shells that are getting towards the end of their life. Artillery guns that are due to be replaced shortly. And so on and so forth.

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Bond007uk

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#4 Bond007uk
Member since 2002 • 1642 Posts

Hardly. Two years of war, 30,000+ Young Russian soldiers dead, many more wounded. A failed invasion that was likely thought to last no longer than a month. Total failure. Even if there was a ceasefire/peace treaty on Russia's terms, it still won't be a victory. A victory perhaps in the end, but a pyrrhic one.

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horgen

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#5 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127506 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

No, but he might. Especially if the GOP tries to cut off aid in an effort to help out their buddy Putin.

People seem to be under the impression that "_ billion dollars" of aid to Ukraine means we are giving them giant crates of cash and taking away from the American people.

We aren't. We are giving them aid. This means outdated military equipment and other material that we would otherwise mothball. Cannon shells that are getting towards the end of their life. Artillery guns that are due to be replaced shortly. And so on and so forth.

Also more and more the aid will also keep people working. We need to ramp up production of new weapons, so most of the money is pumped into our economy, only the final product will end up Ukraine.

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nintendoboy16

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#6 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41535 Posts

Right now? No! However, between the GOP, Netanyahu (who still refused to help Ukraine after Zelensky gave his condolences after 10/7), and Hamas? He has an edge!

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LJS9502_basic

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#7 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178847 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

No, but he might. Especially if the GOP tries to cut off aid in an effort to help out their buddy Putin.

People seem to be under the impression that "_ billion dollars" of aid to Ukraine means we are giving them giant crates of cash and taking away from the American people.

We aren't. We are giving them aid. This means outdated military equipment and other material that we would otherwise mothball. Cannon shells that are getting towards the end of their life. Artillery guns that are due to be replaced shortly. And so on and so forth.

I've been trying to tell people that since the war started. It's equipment we don't use and the money was already spent.

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pyro1245

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#8 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 9399 Posts

No, I would not call what Putin is doing in Ukraine "winning".

Also, China knows that they have very little chance to successfully take Taiwan by force without a stupid high cost. It's more likely that China hopes that Taiwan never declares independence so they never have to attempt it.

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Vaasman

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#9  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts

Russian propaganda is doing it's best to sell a doom and gloom narrative because they have no momentum and want a breakthrough while Putin is selling another fixed reelection.

The reality is, though the front is stagnant it is still in Ukraine's favor in the long term. EU nations like Germany and France are only upping tech support and shell production, while Russia is still scraping the bottom of the barrel for troops, equipment, and vehicles. Their only advantage in the long term is a 3 to 1 population advantage and 0 regard for human life.

While it is true that congress is humming and hawing on support, unless Republicans want to take the fall again for a shutdown, they'll have to negotiate more aid for Ukraine and Israel eventually, even if it isn't as fast as would be ideal. Additionally the US still has a few billion left in Ukraine reserve, so while they may not send the bestest leftovers for a bit, they'll still be sending parts, ammo, and materials for a solid 5-6 months at the rate they're sending now. And even then, Biden has some flexibility on executive order, debt management, and executive allocated budget that can maintain basic support for a while after that. The only real issue in America would be 2025 if Trump wins.

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mrbojangles25

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#10 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58328 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

No, but he might. Especially if the GOP tries to cut off aid in an effort to help out their buddy Putin.

People seem to be under the impression that "_ billion dollars" of aid to Ukraine means we are giving them giant crates of cash and taking away from the American people.

We aren't. We are giving them aid. This means outdated military equipment and other material that we would otherwise mothball. Cannon shells that are getting towards the end of their life. Artillery guns that are due to be replaced shortly. And so on and so forth.

I've been trying to tell people that since the war started. It's equipment we don't use and the money was already spent.

Yeah the Marines can only take so much 50-year old gear 😋 we have to send the rest somewhere

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palasta

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#11 palasta
Member since 2017 • 1397 Posts

@nirgal said:

It seems the west is quite weak and will not accept even Minor economical costs for protecting the current order.

Thats not minor...

Ukraine war expected to cost Germany 160 billion euros by year-end

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-war-expected-cost-germany-160-bln-euros-by-year-end-2023-02-19/

German industry is set to pay about 40% more for energy in 2023 than in 2021, before the crisis triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 last year, a study by Allianz Trade said last month.

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Maroxad

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#12 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23920 Posts

No, however, support is waning for ukraine (as much as it shouldn't), his best tool is to use war fatigue in his favor.

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horgen

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#13 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127506 Posts

@palasta said:
@nirgal said:

It seems the west is quite weak and will not accept even Minor economical costs for protecting the current order.

Thats not minor...

Ukraine war expected to cost Germany 160 billion euros by year-end

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-war-expected-cost-germany-160-bln-euros-by-year-end-2023-02-19/

German industry is set to pay about 40% more for energy in 2023 than in 2021, before the crisis triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 last year, a study by Allianz Trade said last month.

Cost of energy was on the rise before Russia invaded. Cost of food would probably be much higher too if Europe didn't support Ukraine.

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SargentD

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#14 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Loading Video...

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#15 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 1058 Posts

It seems like Putin has worse conditions in his country and has pissed off oligarchs and foreign investors, has complicated import/export, has had many casualties in terms of trained soldiers and army leaders, had to use up favors from allies, and has raised questions and concerns from some of the constituency.

By what measure is Putin winning?

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mrbojangles25

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#16 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58328 Posts

@horgen said:
@palasta said:
@nirgal said:

It seems the west is quite weak and will not accept even Minor economical costs for protecting the current order.

Thats not minor...

Ukraine war expected to cost Germany 160 billion euros by year-end

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-war-expected-cost-germany-160-bln-euros-by-year-end-2023-02-19/

German industry is set to pay about 40% more for energy in 2023 than in 2021, before the crisis triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 last year, a study by Allianz Trade said last month.

Cost of energy was on the rise before Russia invaded. Cost of food would probably be much higher too if Europe didn't support Ukraine.

All the more reason to build more nuclear plants for medium and long-term, and renewable energy sources for long-term.

Sadly Germany has shut down all their nuclear plants.

I understand wanting to get away from nuclear down the road, and focusing on renewables, but shutting down nuclear plants before renewables are in place was just a really bad move.

The fear is unwarranted, though, as nuclear power has a lower body count than coal, fossil fuels, and even renewables (how many people have fallen off those wind turbines doing repairs, after all). Accidents like Chernobyl and Fukishima might scare people but even with those counted in, they are dwarfed by the slow march of coal and fossil fuel.

Honestly if we want to avoid costly wars and scale back the military-industrial complex, we need to transition to renewables. This isn't just hippie talk, this is smart business and the financial prudent (arguably financially conservative) thing to do. Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, should get behind this.

If there were no customers for Russian oil, would this war have happened? If we could power greenhouses and desalination plants to grow food with cheap and abundant energy, would Russia have invaded? Hell, Russia produces a lot of chemical fertilizer it needs to export; the West might even be on better terms with them if we were their best customers.

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#17 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts

@sargentd said:

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Ukraine has recaptured over 50% of the territory claimed by Russia.Another Source

Have you ever considered posting something that was correct for a change?

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SargentD

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#18 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Ukraine has recaptured over 50% of the territory claimed by Russia.Another Source

Have you ever considered posting something that was correct for a change?

That is 100% wrong information.

You shouldn't throw rocks in glass houses

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SargentD

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#19  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@Vaasman: "Ukraine has recaptured 50% of territory taken by russia"

Sure they have smh...

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Vaasman

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#20 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts

@sargentd said:
@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Ukraine has recaptured over 50% of the territory claimed by Russia.Another Source

Have you ever considered posting something that was correct for a change?

That is 100% wrong information.

You shouldn't throw rocks in glass houses

Fucking great response Russian bot. Post some citation Ukraine regained virtually no territory since the start of the war or quit embarrassing yourself and hide until the next thread.

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SargentD

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#21  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:
@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Ukraine has recaptured over 50% of the territory claimed by Russia.Another Source

Have you ever considered posting something that was correct for a change?

That is 100% wrong information.

You shouldn't throw rocks in glass houses

Fucking great response Russian bot. Post some citation Ukraine regained virtually no territory since the start of the war or quit embarrassing yourself and hide until the next thread.

"UkrInE HaS TaKEn BacK 50%"

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Vaasman

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#22 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts

@sargentd said:
@Vaasman said:

Fucking great response Russian bot. Post some citation Ukraine regained virtually no territory since the start of the war or quit embarrassing yourself and hide until the next thread.

"UkrInE HaS TaKEn BacK 50%"

Truly amazing that your account outlived political gamer with this trolling.

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SargentD

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#23 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:
@Vaasman said:

Fucking great response Russian bot. Post some citation Ukraine regained virtually no territory since the start of the war or quit embarrassing yourself and hide until the next thread.

"UkrInE HaS TaKEn BacK 50%"

Truly amazing that your account outlived political gamer with this trolling.

Who’s Gaining Ground in Ukraine? This Year, No One.

Although both sides have launched ambitious offensives, the front line has barely shifted. After 18 months of war, a breakthrough looks more difficult than ever.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/28/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-map-front-line.html

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#24 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts
Loading Video...

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lamprey263

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#25 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44568 Posts

This is a war of attrition that won't come down to troops but of supplies. Russia's been burning through their supplies of armor and missiles and Ukraine's is contingent on western support and the US is leading on that end, but their survival relies on that that, but I've no doubt as long as they're supplied they'll hold out. Not to mention Russia's best trained soldiers have been largely wiped away and their troops are merely cannon fodder, like literally, that's what their human wave tactics are. Not to mention Russia lost one of its greatest military assets, mainly the perception of its strength, shown to be nothing more than a paper tiger plagued by corruption, a lack of capabilities from the onset.

This is a significant proxy war so the price tag is relatively miniscule compared to NATO waging such a war, or what they'll spend to bolster NATO should Russia take Ukraine, but long term is cost saving because our military spending is largely tied to being prepared to face off against an equal adversary, which won't be a factor should this cripple the Putin regime. This might mean post-war, west will spend considerable money to rebuild Ukraine, and Russia's economy, but tie it to the dismantling of their nuclear arsenal.

It's also a field test of western technology and capability and will no doubt shape how our own military branches shape their power. Already there's talk of replacing Abraham tank numbers with Bradleys due to their mobility. Though early on the effectiveness of Javelins and NLAWs showed how formidable foot soldiers can be against armor and aircraft, drones themselves of all shapes and sizes are proving more invaluable to the effort than the more expensive ordinance. Cheap civilian drones can be repurposed to be tank killers with a price tag of $1000 a piece, exploiting the still massive defect in Russian armor design to have all their ammo susceptible to ignition from a top turret hit from and drone strapped with an incendiary ordinance.

China's support for Russia materially seems like a dual purpose hedged bet. There's been murmerings they benefit two ways. Either continuing this war will lead to the crumbling and fracturing of the Russian nation state, whereby China may stand to gain territory in that event. Plus, China's aspiration to take Taiwan, they're hoping US support for Ukraine will weaken the ability of US to intervene in a China-Taiwan conflict escalation. So, that's why I think they do what they do. But I've no doubt they've checked themselves no to not want to repeat Russia's mistake. Plus China's advanced military equipment is reverse engineered from Russia's, and Russia's technology being captured by Ukraine intact is no doubt being delivered to US to be dissected by DARPA for development of countermeasures. Something else they're no doubt concerned over.

As far as Russia's ability to wage this war, they have an endless supply of cannon fodder, but above that their supplies aren't limitless. They blew through their artillery within the first year and rely on repurposed surface to air missiles for offensive capabilities and have had to essentially dismantle their nations air defense system to take it to Ukraine for offensive purposes. But a war with China would be much shorter, essentially a naval blockade, cut off on imports would starve the country to ruin in months. Reliance by western economies on China's manufacturing is trending less significant largely due to companies abandoning operations there. Labor isn't as cheap as it use to be and Chinese government is too overbearing on business setting up operations there. Companies are taking their business elsewhere. Furthermore one strategic advantage China was hoping to gain was cornering market of semiconductors to make advanced nations bend the knee or risk being technologically crippled. Taiwanese companies making these have already started taking their manufacturing outside Taiwan to take that advantage off the table for China.

Russia to have ordinance produced by China due to calculations in more efficient corruption. In Russia funds get siphoned at every level, that just be the nature of their economy. In China, misappropriation usually happens at the top, with fsr less of it happening down the chain. Iran is involved in drone manufacturing for Russia, a consequence of Trump unilaterally ending western relations to bring Iran into international community. I think this support could be cut if western nations can manage to bring back the original nuclear monitoring deal with extra caveats related to Iran's support with Russia.

There's been a bolstering over the last year of Ukranian opporatives within Russian borders sabotaging domestic wartime production of chemical plants, manufacturing, and now their logistics routes. Lately the lengrhy underground rail routes that conceal the supplies China gives to Russia have been eliminated, so China's supplies will likely come open routes that will be able to be monitored by Western satellites and more accurately where they end up going which will no doubt send sappers to take out logistic supply hubs.

The use of western armor has also proven invaluable in ways people seem to not quite understand. Because last winter Russia dug in a defensive network, western armor is largely used as bait to attract artillery fire. Whereby drone operators watching defensive positions can pinpoint artillery positions and take out Russian equipment and ammo supplies. The main benefit of western tanks over the Russian ones is survivability. When a Russian tank takes a hit that's it for the crew. Western tanks are much better designed to keep crews alive, they're impervious to being immobilized, but they do better to keep crew alive, and much better suited for reconnaissance efforts than direct assaults.

What mostly gets overlooked on the slow territorial gains is what the gains they are getting mean. Right now in Zaporizhzhia their wedging a hole in their tiers of defenses to cut off Russian logistic capabilities. Further gains across the Dnipro River are further encroaching on a significant Russian logistic supply route to the Eastern provinces that come up from Crimea. People often forget those important nuances to warfare that have been crucial from the onset. Some of the earliest strategies from Russia's initial border incursion was for Ukraine to use their Turkish drones effectively. They'd circle large columns of armor and troops, dozens and dozens of vehicles single file, and what did they hit with their limited ordinance(?), the fuel trucks, effectively immobilizing the entire column. As the saying goes, "logistics wins wars", and this war has probably demonstrated this concept best in recent years.

And thus, Ukraine is still on track to win this war, but it's contingent on US supplying them. The only threat comes from the ultra-MAGA GOP, who've been Russian cheerleaders since the start, who champion Russian disinformation in news and social media. So yeah, if Ukraine outlook is bleak, well, that's a problem in US politics, an namely one faction is entirely to blame, namely that coalition of flat earthers and shills of anti-intellectualism who roll their eyes at science, believe the world is run by Satan worshipping reptilian shapeshifters that eat babies. That's the real enemy of world piece, and why we can't have nice things.

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Vaasman

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#26  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts
@sargentd said:

Who’s Gaining Ground in Ukraine? This Year, No One.

Although both sides have launched ambitious offensives, the front line has barely shifted. After 18 months of war, a breakthrough looks more difficult than ever.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/28/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-map-front-line.html

🥱🥱🥱Literally not what you said. I'm well aware the front is currently static attrition but you said Ukraine reclaimed .25% of territory since the start of the war. You lied and you're wrong. I don't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

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#27 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Who’s Gaining Ground in Ukraine? This Year, No One.

Although both sides have launched ambitious offensives, the front line has barely shifted. After 18 months of war, a breakthrough looks more difficult than ever.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/28/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-map-front-line.html

🥱🥱🥱Literally not what you said. I'm well aware the front is currently static attrition but you said Ukraine gained .25% of territory since the start of the war. You lied and you're wrong. I don't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

You trying to attribute Russia pulling out of the north in 2022 to Ukraine making any gainful comeback is nonsense. No different than blinken trying to justify all the money we are wasting. Whatever

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Vaasman

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#28 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts

@sargentd said:
@Vaasman said:

🥱🥱🥱Literally not what you said. I'm well aware the front is currently static attrition but you said Ukraine gained .25% of territory since the start of the war. You lied and you're wrong. I don't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

You trying to attribute Russia pulling out of the north in 2022 to Ukraine making any gainful comeback is nonsense. No different than blinken trying to justify all the money we are wasting. Whatever

And the entire territory west of the Dnipro constituting thousands of square kilometers and thousands of square kilometers east of Kharkiv. I can agree at least that 2023 hasn't seen much change, would that make you feel better about being incorrect? Either way don't say wrong statements and maybe you wouldn't be called out for them? 🤔

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Nirgal

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#29 Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 687 Posts

@sargentd: he is right. You were wrong on this one. It doesn't matter how the territory was recovered. And invading force doesn't leave just because, they did so because they could not afford to keep troops there.

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uninspiredcup

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#30 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58988 Posts

Just, amazing.

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#31 THUMPTABLE
Member since 2003 • 2357 Posts

@sargentd said:
@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Ukraine has recaptured over 50% of the territory claimed by Russia.Another Source

Have you ever considered posting something that was correct for a change?

That is 100% wrong information.

You shouldn't throw rocks in glass houses

Why troll ALL the fucking time??

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SargentD

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#32 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@nirgal said:

@sargentd: he is right. You were wrong on this one. It doesn't matter how the territory was recovered. And invading force doesn't leave just because, they did so because they could not afford to keep troops there.

Yeah it kind of does matter. When your trying to make a point if Ukraine is winning or loosing the ****ing war

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comp_atkins

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#33 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38678 Posts

@lamprey263: it's pretty remarkable to see how effective cheap drones have been against conventionally powerful tactics and equipment. fpv drones w/ explosives duct taped to them disabling / destroying tanks and apcs. crazy.

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#34  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts
Loading Video...

It's like a late night comedy sketch.

Except it's not, it's just sad, depressing, and alot of people die for no good reason.

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uninspiredcup

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#35  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58988 Posts
@THUMPTABLE said:

Why troll ALL the fucking time??

Many right-wingers buy into this stuff. I'd say most do. De Facto support Russia.

Russia flooded the airwaves with misinformation (bingo ball we are justified because A/B/C let us win because A/B/C) and concurrently -and independently right-wing media gobbled it up and vomited it out again.

Seems to be an unfortunate part of democracy Russia (whom they love) deny. Putting up with this shit.

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#36  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:
@THUMPTABLE said:

Why troll ALL the fucking time??

Many right-wingers buy into this stuff. I'd say most do. De Facto support Russia.

Russia flooded the airwaves with misinformation (bingo ball we are justified because A/B/C let us win because A/B/C) and concurrently -and independently right-wing media gobbled it up and vomited it out again.

Seems to be an unfortunate part of democracy Russia (whom they love) deny. Putting up with this shit.

Is it so hard to believe many Americans don't actually like seeing billions of tax dollars going to millitary conflicts in foreign lands like Ukraine and Israel.

You guys who just go into the "ahhhhh you putin stooge!!!" Are so ******* stupid lol

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#37 adrian1480
Member since 2003 • 15033 Posts

With Ukraine as a proxy, the West reduced Russia's ability to conduct war by 50% and counting, reduced their ability to be a threat in other regions, trained soldiers by tens of thousands, and quite a few generals and high-level military members...all without losing a single NATO life. While also adding new members.

No, Vlad lost real hard. He may yet save some face with a treaty that gives him something he wanted, but it won't be much of what he wanted.

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#38 Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 687 Posts

@sargentd: territory won without a fight is much better than territory won while fighting, because attack and counter attack operations are much more costly than defense operations.

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SargentD

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#39 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@adrian1480 said:

With Ukraine as a proxy, the West reduced Russia's ability to conduct war by 50% and counting, reduced their ability to be a threat in other regions, trained soldiers by tens of thousands, and quite a few generals and high-level military members...all without losing a single NATO life. While also adding new members.

No, Vlad lost real hard. He may yet save some face with a treaty that gives him something he wanted, but it won't be much of what he wanted.

What did he want from the start?

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#40 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58988 Posts

@sargentd said:

What did he want from the start?

Ukraine.

Now it's "just chunk of Ukraine"

Because Jimmy Dores who def doesn't need his nose broken and his propagandists are 2000% right in that this is clearly not a land-grab but just reasonable Russians leveling cities and going on mass rape murder sprees. (America forced them to)

Loading Video...

Peace is the only option!

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SargentD

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#41 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@sargentd said:

What did he want from the start?

Ukraine.

Now it's "just chunk of Ukraine"

Loading Video...

Did russia/putin specifically say they were invading Ukraine to take over the entire country. What was russias reasoning? Can you share with me maybe some statements by Russias officials? Because most of the statements I saw from Russia never mentioned a goal of taking over the entire country of Ukraine as thier goal.

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#42 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127506 Posts

@sargentd said:
Loading Video...

Did russia/putin specifically say they were invading Ukraine to take over the entire country. What was russias reasoning? Can you share with me maybe some statements by Russias officials? Because most of the statements I saw from Russia never mentioned a goal of taking over the entire country of Ukraine as thier goal.

Leaders/Putin still thinks Ukraine is a vital part of Russia. All the countries that was part of USSR are his goal to take over.

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#43 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@horgen said:
@sargentd said:
Loading Video...

Did russia/putin specifically say they were invading Ukraine to take over the entire country. What was russias reasoning? Can you share with me maybe some statements by Russias officials? Because most of the statements I saw from Russia never mentioned a goal of taking over the entire country of Ukraine as thier goal.

Leaders/Putin still thinks Ukraine is a vital part of Russia. All the countries that was part of USSR are his goal to take over.

Again

I'll ask again...

Can you link me to some statements by Russia officials on what thier goal was with this invasion of Ukraine??

You are saying thier goal is to recreate the USSR.. but I never saw Russia say that.

What was Russias goal, in russias words.

Like seriously how do you guys expect to understand thier goals if you refuse to listen to them at all

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#44 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127506 Posts
@sargentd said:

Again

I'll ask again...

Can you link me to some statements by Russia officials on what thier goal was with this invasion of Ukraine??

You are saying thier goal is to recreate the USSR.. but I never saw Russia say that.

What was Russias goal, in russias words.

Like seriously how do you guys expect to understand thier goals if you refuse to listen to them at all

Hmmm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/why-did-russia-invade-ukraine-b2374515.html lists this

Vladimir Putinbegan the war by claiming Russia’s neighbour needed to be “demilitarised and de-Nazified”,

Also from the same source:

Rumbling tensions in in the region first began in December 2021 when Russian troops amassed at its western border with Ukraine, creating widespread international concern but not acting until the final week of February 2022, when Mr Putin moved to officially recognise the pro-Russian breakaway regions of theDonetsk People’s Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR)as independent states.

There is also more history here.

Going back even further to 2014 gives the current situation more context.

Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula that year in retaliation after the country’s Moscow-friendly president, Viktor Yanukovych, was driven from power by the midwinter mass protests seen in Kyiv’s Maidan Square, an angry reaction to his decision to reject a treaty strengthening economic and diplomatic ties between his country and the EU, probably acting under pressure from the Kremlin.

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#45 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@horgen:

so where is the statement by Russia that thier goal is to overtake Ukraine to rebuild the USSR???

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#46 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127506 Posts

@sargentd said:

@horgen:

so where is the statement by Russia that thier goal is to overtake Ukraine to rebuild the USSR???

Putin has never mentioned he wanted to rebuild USSR. He has called the fall of USSR the greatest tragedy to ever happen to Russians. He is also way to interested in former USSR states.

Here are some readingmaterial

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#47 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178847 Posts

@sargentd said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@THUMPTABLE said:

Why troll ALL the fucking time??

Many right-wingers buy into this stuff. I'd say most do. De Facto support Russia.

Russia flooded the airwaves with misinformation (bingo ball we are justified because A/B/C let us win because A/B/C) and concurrently -and independently right-wing media gobbled it up and vomited it out again.

Seems to be an unfortunate part of democracy Russia (whom they love) deny. Putting up with this shit.

Is it so hard to believe many Americans don't actually like seeing billions of tax dollars going to millitary conflicts in foreign lands like Ukraine and Israel.

You guys who just go into the "ahhhhh you putin stooge!!!" Are so ******* stupid lol

Much of the support has been outdated equipment that was paid for already but isn't much use to us now. You're conflating the analysis of the initial cost as something new, it's not. Money was already spent. So you can give it to Ukraine, hold it in storage, or destroy it. But the money is gone.

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#48 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127506 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

Much of the support has been outdated equipment that was paid for already but isn't much use to us now. You're conflating the analysis of the initial cost as something new, it's not. Money was already spent. So you can give it to Ukraine, hold it in storage, or destroy it. But the money is gone.

Secondly who produce the gear US supports Ukraine with?

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#49  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178847 Posts

@horgen said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Much of the support has been outdated equipment that was paid for already but isn't much use to us now. You're conflating the analysis of the initial cost as something new, it's not. Money was already spent. So you can give it to Ukraine, hold it in storage, or destroy it. But the money is gone.

Secondly who produce the gear US supports Ukraine with?

The US military industrial complex.

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#50  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Since the start of the war and 250 billion dollars of millitary aid later...

Ukraine has taken back .025% of land taken by Russian

So you tell me?

Ukraine has recaptured over 50% of the territory claimed by Russia.Another Source

Have you ever considered posting something that was correct for a change?

Holy cow that Sargent guy lies in almost every one of his posts.