# do you believe in the number "zero?"

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#1 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

#2 Posted by Master_Live (18815 posts) -

I believe in Harvey Dent.

#3 Posted by MrGeezer (59113 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

Nothing can exist in certain contexts. The thing to remember here is that the numbers actually refer to things. Numbers are used to describe reality, and that description is context-specific. If I'm on an island and if there are no apples on that island, and if I'm using numbers to describe the number of apples on that island, then it's fair to say that the number is zero. Why? Because in reality, there aren't any apples on that island.

Of course, that's just based on my personal perception. The real question is if a mathematical model that DOESN'T contain zero would work better than the ones that do. And that's a question for the mathematicians of OT, I don't know enough to state whether or not there are better models or systems to use.

#4 Posted by br0kenrabbit (15094 posts) -

#5 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

Don't do drugs, kids

#6 Edited by lightleggy (16090 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

Did you know that ancient egyptians didn't "believed" in 0? They're math included no 0 at all.

Then they kind of realized the 0 was necessary for math to work as an exact science, and 0 has existed ever since.

Now I'm no mathmatician, but I'm guessing that if they had to add 0 just because they realized that they're math wasn't working that well, then 0 must be pretty important.

#7 Edited by br0kenrabbit (15094 posts) -

@lightleggy said:

Did you know that ancient egyptians didn't "believed" in 0? They're math included no 0 at all.

Then they kind of realized the 0 was necessary for math to work as an exact science, and 0 has existed ever since.

Now I'm no mathmatician, but I'm guessing that if they had to add 0 just because they realized that they're math wasn't working that well, then 0 must be pretty important.

In the old world, the concept of 0 was invented in India in about the fifth century CE. In the Americas, the Mayans had independently developed the concept about 300 years earlier.

#8 Posted by MrGeezer (59113 posts) -

@lightleggy said:

@4myAmuzumament said:

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

Did you know that ancient egyptians didn't "believed" in 0? They're math included no 0 at all.

Then they kind of realized the 0 was necessary for math to work as an exact science, and 0 has existed ever since.

Now I'm no mathmatician, but I'm guessing that if they had to add 0 just because they realized that they're math wasn't working that well, then 0 must be pretty important.

And that's a bit more concise than what I was saying.

Modern mathematicians aren't exactly f***ing stupid. They're aware that non-zero mathematical models have existed before, and there are probably lots of then nerdy enough to see what would happen if they tried to use a non-zero mathematical model today. Someone far smarter than any of us has tried this, I f***ing guarantee it.

And yet, today, everyone f***ing uses zero. I strongly suspect that that's because using zero just plain works a lot better than NOT using zero. If not using zero actually worked better, then they'd be f***ing doing it.

#9 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

i believe in love

#10 Edited by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

If nothing doesn't exist then how does science explain how few fucks I give?

I think that's a better philosophical question personally.

#11 Posted by t1striker (1549 posts) -

Zero is a symbol of a number, and this symbol is used everyday. If we didn't have the symbol 0 then this world would be quite different. Things wouldn't run the way they do, and Math would be a mess.

102 wouldn't be able to exist without zero, but 112 could. 0 doesn't just mean nothing.

#12 Posted by hippiesanta (10299 posts) -

yes .... it represent Atheist and PETA

#13 Posted by nigellalawson30 (33 posts) -

yes i do cause every single value is dependent on it......

#14 Posted by elkoldo (1775 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament: When you say "nothing literally does not exist "

I fail to catch your point, mind explaining a bit more? (I mean which is your point, "nothing exists " or "everything, to some degree, exists" ? )

#15 Posted by thegerg (18277 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament: You seem to be confused. There are things that literally do not exist.

#16 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

#17 Posted by elkoldo (1775 posts) -

No, no one called spiderman as far as I could tell

;)

#18 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

@elkoldo said:

@4myAmuzumament: When you say "nothing literally does not exist "

I fail to catch your point, mind explaining a bit more? (I mean which is your point, "nothing exists " or "everything, to some degree, exists" ? )

I mean that there is no such thing as nothing. This stems from my belief that something cannot come from nothing, meaning that there has always been something and never nothing. Zero is a symbol for nothing being there, but that nothing, isn't real.

#19 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@4myAmuzumament: You seem to be confused. There are things that literally do not exist.

i think you're the one that is confused. i know that there are things that do not exist, but there is no such thing as nothing.

#20 Posted by clarinetguy097 (83 posts) -

Zero is a mathematical concept used as a placeholder or to symbolize that none of a given quantity exists.

Numbers in general are simply abstract symbols used to describe the world. Negative numbers and imaginary numbers can't even be visualized concretely, but they're still used because they have applications in mathematics. It's kind of like that with zero.

#21 Posted by Jd1680a (5958 posts) -

Neo might agree there is no spoon.

#22 Edited by playmynutz (7876 posts) -

Math is great, it isn't a pagan belief

#23 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (9363 posts) -

Zero is definitely a number.

#24 Posted by Sword-Demon (7007 posts) -

Zero is obviously a number, but I get what you're saying - "nothing" is the absence of "something", so zero is a purely conceptual number, as an absence doesn't physically exist; it's an idea.

What you're debating is whether or not zero is a natural number.

I don't think zero is truly a natural number, but should be counted as one for convenience's sake.

#25 Edited by MonsieurX (36746 posts) -

Negatives shouldn't count then?

You can't have -1 apple.

#26 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -
@lostrib said:

Don't do drugs, kids

#27 Posted by themajormayor (25536 posts) -
@thegerg said:

@4myAmuzumament: You seem to be confused. There are things that literally do not exist.

Yes and nothing is one of them.

#28 Posted by Makhaidos (2162 posts) -

Forget zero; the square root of -1 equals an imaginary number that still somehow has real mathematical applications. Fucking numbers.

#29 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -
@MonsieurX said:

Negatives shouldn't count then?

You can't have -1 apple.

correct.

#30 Edited by MonsieurX (36746 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:
@MonsieurX said:

Negatives shouldn't count then?

You can't have -1 apple.

correct.

So,what happens if you have 5\$ but have a dept of 10\$?

#31 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

@Sword-Demon said:

Zero is obviously a number, but I get what you're saying - "nothing" is the absence of "something", so zero is a purely conceptual number, as an absence doesn't physically exist; it's an idea.

What you're debating is whether or not zero is a natural number.

I don't think zero is truly a natural number, but should be counted as one for convenience's sake.

this guy gets it/me.

but now I have a new question. when my GPS is on and it's telling me how many miles to drive before the next step, it will sometimes say, "in point five miles, bear right."

do you say 0.5 mile since it's less than a mile, or 0.5 miles because the 5 pluralizes it?

would you say 0.999... mile since 0.999...=1, or would you say 0.999...miles since the 9 is plural?

#32 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

@MonsieurX said:

@4myAmuzumament said:
@MonsieurX said:

Negatives shouldn't count then?

You can't have -1 apple.

correct.

So,what happens if you have 5\$ but have a dept of 10\$?

Well, I can't pay off my debt so I'll just hold on to the cash and go halfsies.

#33 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (22268 posts) -

You're referring to an inherent zero. There is such a thing as a non-inherent zero, you know.

#34 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:

You're referring to an inherent zero. There is such a thing as a non-inherent zero, you know.

i have no knowledge of such things: non-inherent and inherent zeros. can you explain/elaborate on what they are? online descriptions aren't helping me.

#35 Edited by lamprey263 (34416 posts) -

how many men have you cornholed TC?

and answer with a rational number

#36 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (22268 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

@jun_aka_pekto said:

You're referring to an inherent zero. There is such a thing as a non-inherent zero, you know.

i have no knowledge of such things: non-inherent and inherent zeros. can you explain/elaborate on what they are? online descriptions aren't helping me.

Just Google it. I'm busy with replaying Far Cry 3. Here. Just for you. ;)

#37 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto: i give that picture a 0/10. it means nothing to me.

#38 Posted by Sword-Demon (7007 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

@Sword-Demon said:

Zero is obviously a number, but I get what you're saying - "nothing" is the absence of "something", so zero is a purely conceptual number, as an absence doesn't physically exist; it's an idea.

What you're debating is whether or not zero is a natural number.

I don't think zero is truly a natural number, but should be counted as one for convenience's sake.

this guy gets it/me.

but now I have a new question. when my GPS is on and it's telling me how many miles to drive before the next step, it will sometimes say, "in point five miles, bear right."

do you say 0.5 mile since it's less than a mile, or 0.5 miles because the 5 pluralizes it?

would you say 0.999... mile since 0.999...=1, or would you say 0.999...miles since the 9 is plural?

I say miles, but I think, grammatically, it's supposed to be mile

#39 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

Ha my dad took a class in college I think called the theory of zero. There was also one about the number one.

#40 Posted by themajormayor (25536 posts) -

BTW it must be hard for thegerg getting schooled time and time again.

#41 Posted by Perfect_Blue (29925 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

BTW it must be hard for thegerg getting schooled time and time again.

Pretty sure he's just an internet bot or viral marketer for some obscure indie game, bro.

#42 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (22268 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

@jun_aka_pekto: i give that picture a 0/10. it means nothing to me.

Of course not.

It meant something to me, not you. I don't get to play many games for long stretches. So, I make the best of it when the opportunity presents itself.

#43 Posted by alim298 (2747 posts) -

Where is mrmusicman247 ? Maybe he found this thread too cliched...

#44 Posted by clarinetguy097 (83 posts) -
@4myAmuzumament said:

@Sword-Demon said:

Zero is obviously a number, but I get what you're saying - "nothing" is the absence of "something", so zero is a purely conceptual number, as an absence doesn't physically exist; it's an idea.

What you're debating is whether or not zero is a natural number.

I don't think zero is truly a natural number, but should be counted as one for convenience's sake.

this guy gets it/me.

but now I have a new question. when my GPS is on and it's telling me how many miles to drive before the next step, it will sometimes say, "in point five miles, bear right."

do you say 0.5 mile since it's less than a mile, or 0.5 miles because the 5 pluralizes it?

would you say 0.999... mile since 0.999...=1, or would you say 0.999...miles since the 9 is plural?

0.5 miles because the plural form is also used for fractions.

.999 mile because it can't be expressed as a fraction but is still equal to one.

#45 Edited by theone86 (20742 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

How do you know nothing doesn't exist? If it existed could you perceive it? Furthermore, would existing be the right word for it? Wouldn't the right phrase possibly be that nothing non-exists?

#46 Edited by one_plum (6500 posts) -

Yeah, I saw a lot of those in high school.

#47 Posted by curono (7713 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

Oh my god... Really? REALLY?? Welcome to mayans. Like, seriously. You are on the "discover math" like a millenia and a half behind.

#48 Edited by chessmaster1989 (30204 posts) -
@MonsieurX said:

Negatives shouldn't count then?

You can't have -1 apple.

Sure you can it just means you consume -1 apples and are worse off than if you consumed 0 apples.

#49 Posted by Sword-Demon (7007 posts) -

@theone86 said:

@4myAmuzumament said:

As you know, nothing literally does not exist. Not in any form. simply because something exists and nothing doesn't exist.

Can zero really be classified as a number when it isn't a real thing?

discuss

How do you know nothing doesn't exist? If it existed could you perceive it? Furthermore, would existing be the right word for it? Wouldn't the right phrase possibly be that nothing non-exists?

If it existed, then it wouldn't be nothing

#50 Edited by SolidSnake35 (58756 posts) -

Numbers are impossible. How can 2 exist after 1 if there are an infinite number of decimal values in between. It's all a fabrication created by scientists to shift funding away from the humanities. They would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for me.