Throughout the old testament, we see that God commands the Israelites to steal and plunder livestocks and goods of their neighbors. And in the new testament, God impregnated Mary without asking or even informing Joseph about it first. So did God broke the commandment of "Thou shall not steal" and "Though shall not commit adultery "?
There are so many contradictions, the whole thing is a mess
DroidPhysX
Actually, as long as you pay attention to language, context, and cultural/historic context then there are no contradictions. God often commanded the Israelites into wars with other nations as a way to punish the other nations for their wickedness. "Thou shalt not kill" refers to murder, not war.
If it could be proven; according to Christianity, God isn't bound by the rules of anything... he's supposed to be the supreme power, answerable to no one.
If the rules applied to him, he would have broken them - but they don't apply to him (if he theoretically existed). It's safe to say however, that if he does exist, God is evil and vindictive.
Were Mary and Joseph even married at the time? Anyways, I hardly take stories in bible literally anyway, even though I'm a Christian. I'm just casual Christian, I would just want to take it metaphorically and just forget about any imperfections of the book which was obviously written by some old guy in ancient times. This reminds me, if I'm a Christian and believe in evolution, would I burn in hell? Because I want to believe in evolution without burning in hell.
No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?
Throughout the old testament, we see that God commands the Israelites to steal and plunder livestocks and goods of their neighbors. And in the new testament, God impregnated Mary without asking or even informing Joseph about it first. So did God broke the commandment of "Thou shall not steal" and "Though shall not commit adultery "?Lonelynight
lol thats the contradiction you chose? I dont think God came in the middle of the day while Joseph was at work and have sex with his wife, despite how family guy may depict it
[QUOTE="Acemaster27"] Actually, as long as you pay attention to language, context, and cultural/historic context then there are no contradictions. God often commanded the Israelites into wars with other nations as a way to punish the other nations for their wickedness. "Thou shalt not kill" refers to murder, not war.Then why were the Children killed?
Were Mary and Joseph even married at the time?funsohng
No, though they were engaged. [QUOTE="funsohng"] This reminds me, if I'm a Christian and believe in evolution, would I burn in hell? Because I want to believe in evolution without burning in hell. Since you already believe in evolution, you can always just believe that there is no hell(or at least, the modern day version of hell) as the earliest form of Christians(the ones who were closest to Jesus' time) did not believe in such a thing as well.
No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?mindstorm
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?Lonelynight
Then how would you explain his actions? God is God and is completely justified in his actions - all of them. Keep in mind that I as a Calvinist believe that all humanity is utterly depraved and deserve absolutely nothing but the infinite and just wrath of God. To ask, "Why does God allow suffering in the world?" or "Why does God kill in the Bible?" are wrong questions. Rather, it should be phrased, "Why would God in his grace allow even one sinner to breath his first breath?"
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="funsohng"] This reminds me, if I'm a Christian and believe in evolution, would I burn in hell? Because I want to believe in evolution without burning in hell. Since you already believe in evolution, you can always just believe that there is no hell(or at least, the modern day version of hell) as the earliest form of Christians(the ones who were closest to Jesus' time) did not believe in such a thing as well. But I do believe in hell and heaven. I use it as a control measure for my behaviours.
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?mindstorm
Then how would you explain his actions? God is God and is completely justified in his actions - all of them. Keep in mind that I as a Calvinist believe that all humanity is utterly depraved and deserve absolutely nothing but the infinite and just wrath of God. To ask, "Why does God allow suffering in the world?" or "Why does God kill in the Bible?" are wrong questions. Rather, it should be phrased, "Why would God in his grace allow even one sinner to breath his first breath?"
More like, why would an omniscient God create sinners and sin in the first place...?
No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?mindstorm
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt?
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?HoolaHoopMan
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt? I call that murdering innocent kids.
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]he always seemed like a "do as i say, not as i do" type guy.mindstorm
Excluding the whole sinless life of Jesus thing, of course. i remember jesus more or less losing his **** over the business practices in the temple. vandalism doesnt quite measure up to the wrath of the god of the old testament, but it still seemed very unjesus.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?HoolaHoopMan
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt? No, he didn't. When God does it, it isn't murder. It's divine intervention.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"] Keep in mind that I as a Calvinist believe that all humanity is utterly depraved and deserve absolutely nothing but the infinite and just wrath of God. To ask, "Why does God allow suffering in the world?" or "Why does God kill in the Bible?" are wrong questions. Rather, it should be phrased, "Why would God in his grace allow even one sinner to breath his first breath?" Then aren't we just God's toys? It seems that it would've been more merciful if he created without sin and made sure we would be that way, or just never had created us in the first place.[QUOTE="funsohng"] But I do believe in hell and heaven. I use it as a control measure for my behaviours.From my understanding, the early version of hell was kinda like a place for you to be cleansed, but it is still some sort of punishment, just not eternal. You should ask GabuEx about this since I really don't know much about it. Also, you would probably rest better if you believe that everyone of your friends and family will one day be together with you in heaven, rather than having them suffer in hell forever.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?HoolaHoopMan
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt? Or the great flood, or the plagues of Egypt. It is kind of crazy to believe in something that won't stand by their own rules.
[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]No, the Law expresses the very character and nature of God. To say that he breaks his own law is to call him an inconstant liar and the very foundations for reality breaks down as nothing can be trusted. If God does not abide by his moral law then why do laws such as the Law of Gravity remain constant?scorch-62
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt? No, he didn't. When God does it, it isn't murder. It's divine intervention. Gotcha. Seems like every time he "intervenes" we get some holy killing.
More like, why would an omniscient God create sinners and sin in the first place...?
raynimrod
There are some things that are not explicitly stated in Scripture. Regardless, it can very well be said explicitly in Scripture that his plans are greater than our plans - even when we do not understand them.
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt? HoolaHoopMan
To quote Ezekiel 33:11, "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?" It is not God's desire to kill but to live a good and pleasing God-honoring life. Did the Egyptians do this?
[QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Keep in mind that I as a Calvinist believe that all humanity is utterly depraved and deserve absolutely nothing but the infinite and just wrath of God. To ask, "Why does God allow suffering in the world?" or "Why does God kill in the Bible?" are wrong questions. Rather, it should be phrased, "Why would God in his grace allow even one sinner to breath his first breath?" Then aren't we just God's toys? It seems that it would've been more merciful if he created without sin and made sure we would be that way, or just never had created us in the first place. Maybe, maybe not. However, I am willing to trust that God is good.
To quote Ezekiel 33:11, "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?" It is not God's desire to kill but to live a good and pleasing God-honoring life. Did the Egyptians do this?
mindstorm
How are innocent, naive, and ultimately naive children deemed wicked by an all loving God? What exactly did these children do?
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Lonelynight"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Keep in mind that I as a Calvinist believe that all humanity is utterly depraved and deserve absolutely nothing but the infinite and just wrath of God. To ask, "Why does God allow suffering in the world?" or "Why does God kill in the Bible?" are wrong questions. Rather, it should be phrased, "Why would God in his grace allow even one sinner to breath his first breath?" Then aren't we just God's toys? It seems that it would've been more merciful if he created without sin and made sure we would be that way, or just never had created us in the first place. Maybe, maybe not. However, I am willing to trust that God is good. Good on what basis? Because if I killed little Egyptian children, I'm sure you wouldn't allot me that same courtesy.
:lol Good luck with that. Should god even exist, and if he/she/it came to this planet, and told people their religion is completely wrong, the extremists still believe in their god and continue to kill over cartoons. So no point in arguing logic. That will never win.
[QUOTE="raynimrod"]More like, why would an omniscient God create sinners and sin in the first place...?
mindstorm
There are some things that are not explicitly stated in Scripture. Regardless, it can very well be said explicitly in Scripture that his plans are greater than our plans - even when we do not understand them.
So God never murdered? What exactly do you call the systematic killing of first borns in Egypt? HoolaHoopMan
To quote Ezekiel 33:11, "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?" It is not God's desire to kill but to live a good and pleasing God-honoring life. Did the Egyptians do this? Another prime example of a total lack of freewill, pretty much if you don't follow him you are wicked ??? Also if God is all powerful and he does not require anything why does he need people to worship and honour him?? It doesn't make any sense.
Do as I say, not as I do? God seems like a "my way or the highway (to hell)" kinda guy.
XilePrincess
Again, you're comparing God and humans as if they're equals. God is the most perfect, amazing being imaginable who created everything that exists. He has the right to shape life as he pleases because life comes from him in the first place. I'm just some dude, that's why I don't have the right to take life. Also, God doesn't send people to hell, he offers a way out that most don't take.
[QUOTE="raynimrod"]More like, why would an omniscient God create sinners and sin in the first place...?
mindstorm
There are some things that are not explicitly stated in Scripture. Regardless, it can very well be said explicitly in Scripture that his plans are greater than our plans - even when we do not understand them.
And how do you know the scripture is true?
The way I see it, he's either incompitent and therefore non-omnipotent, or he's malevolent.
This reminds me, if I'm a Christian and believe in evolution, would I burn in hell? Because I want to believe in evolution without burning in hell.funsohng
No. I'm a Christian, I believe that the whole bible is the true and inspired word of God but I also study physics and believe the universe is 12.6 billion years old. When Genesis discusses creation it is not trying to give a logical, scientific account of what happened, but rather a poetic account the fact that God created the universe and how mankind came to have dominion over the Earth. That is how Christians throughout most of history have interpreted it actually. If you have more questions, I suggest you check out Biologos, I find it to be a great website. There are also a number of books on the subject I could recommend for you.
How are innocent, naive, and ultimately naive children deemed wicked by an all loving God? What exactly did these children do?
HoolaHoopMan
It's not what sin they or their parents have committed. Rather, it is being of a sinful creature in nature, character, and being. Even in the most innocent time of our lives we are still fallen beings.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Did the Egyptians do this?Lonelynight
Did they had a chance? I'm one to believe so. Did not Moses offer the chance to Pharaoh countless times? Do you really believe that it was only those who were ethnically Hebrew who would eventually follow Moses out of Egypt? It was those who trusted in the "blood of the lamb" during passover who were saved from the wrath of God. They had no less of a chance than you or me.
Do as I say, not as I do? God seems like a "my way or the highway (to hell)" kinda guy.
jim_shorts
Again, you're comparing God and humans as if they're equals. God is the most perfect, amazing being imaginable who created everything that exists. He has the right to shape life as he pleases because life comes from him in the first place. I'm just some dude, that's why I don't have the right to take life. Also, God doesn't send people to hell, he offers a way out that most don't take.
Do as I say, not as I do? God seems like a "my way or the highway (to hell)" kinda guy.
jim_shorts
Again, you're comparing God and humans as if they're equals. God is the most perfect, amazing being imaginable who created everything that exists. He has the right to shape life as he pleases because life comes from him in the first place. I'm just some dude, that's why I don't have the right to take life. Also, God doesn't send people to hell, he offers a way out that most don't take. For a perfect being God sure does seem to mess up a lot of things, especially with his creations.
[QUOTE="funsohng"]This reminds me, if I'm a Christian and believe in evolution, would I burn in hell? Because I want to believe in evolution without burning in hell.Acemaster27
No. I'm a Christian, I believe that the whole bible is the true and inspired word of God but I also study physics and believe the universe is 12.6 billion years old. When Genesis discusses creation it is not trying to give a logical, scientific account of what happened, but rather a poetic account the fact that God created the universe and how mankind came to have dominion over the Earth. That is how Christians throughout most of history have interpreted it actually. If you have more questions, I suggest you check out Biologos, I find it to be a great website. There are also a number of books on the subject I could recommend for you.
So you cherry-pick the parts of the Bible you want to believe? On what basis does that make sense?
[QUOTE="xxmatt125xx"] Another prime example of a total lack of freewill, pretty much if you don't follow him you are wicked ??? Also if God is all powerful and he does not require anything why does he need people to worship and honour him?? It doesn't make any sense. No, we are all wicked and it is by God's grace that any of us come to know his mercy. As far as God's need to be worshiped, no. He does not require our sacrifices but delights in our pleasure of him not because of his need but because of his want.
It's not what sin they or their parents have committed. Rather, it is being of a sinful creature in nature, character, and being. Even in the most innocent time of our lives we are still fallen beings.
mindstorm
Ah that's right.
Egyptian children are full of original sin that they inherited from some jack off that disobeyed God, so he murders them. You don't see some twisted messed up sense of justice in any of this?
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="xxmatt125xx"] Another prime example of a total lack of freewill, pretty much if you don't follow him you are wicked ??? Also if God is all powerful and he does not require anything why does he need people to worship and honour him?? It doesn't make any sense. No, we are all wicked and it is by God's grace that any of us come to know his mercy. As far as God's need to be worshiped, no. He does not require our sacrifices but delights in our pleasure of him not because of his need but because of his want. But because of his want for worship, which means he desires it wants it envys those who has it, he will strike wrath on those who has it. In other words to furfil his greed.
I'm one to believe so. Did not Moses offer the chance to Pharaoh countless times? Do you really believe that it was only those who were ethnically Hebrew who would eventually follow Moses out of Egypt? It was those who trusted in the "blood of the lamb" during passover who were saved from the wrath of God. They had no less of a chance than you or me.mindstorm
Moses made the offer to the Pharaoh, not the people of Egypt. And thus, the Egyptians did not have a chance.
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