if God exists, considering that space and time are connected, and God created the universe and everything in it, it would follow that he created time as well.
Either God was created by another more powerful God, or God created himself, time would have always had to existence prior to those events happening. Therefore time must have existed before God.
Either God was created by another more powerful God, or God created himself, time would have always had to existence prior to those events happening. Therefore time must have existed before God.
Either God was created by another more powerful God, or God created himself, time would have always had to existence prior to those events happening. Therefore time must have existed before God.
Either God was created by another more powerful God, or God created himself, time would have always had to existence prior to those events happening. Therefore time must have existed before God.
Neoklondiak
And what created time...
Father Time.
Let UK speak, I wanna see how he wants to try to strip God of his validity...
Either God was created by another more powerful God, or God created himself, time would have always had to existence prior to those events happening. Therefore time must have existed before God.
Let UK speak, I wanna see how he wants to try to strip God of his validity... God did not create time, rather in a sense time created God. Why do you think that.
[QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="champion837"] Let UK speak, I wanna see how he wants to try to strip God of his validity... God did not create time, rather in a sense time created God. Why do you think that. Why do you not?
[QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"] God did not create time, rather in a sense time created God. Why do you think that. Why do you not? God is known for creating (which is why we call him "God"), so he would create time as well.
[QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="champion837"] Why do you think that. Why do you not? God is known for creating (which is why we call him "God"), so he would create time as well. No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God.
[QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"] Why do you not?Mike-uk
God is known for creating (which is why we call him "God"), so he would create time as well. No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God.
Time created everything? How is that? Time cannot create, it is something that is placed in the plane of existence. God can transcend time, know what is going to happen before it does..... and stuff like that...
[QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"] Why do you not? God is known for creating (which is why we call him "God"), so he would create time as well. No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God. That sorta throws out the whole "God is infinite and everlasting" theory Time didn't exist before the big bang
[QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="champion837"] God is known for creating (which is why we call him "God"), so he would create time as well.champion837
No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God.
Time created everything? How is that? Time cannot create, it is something that is placed in the plane of existence. God can transcend time, know what is going to happen before it does..... and stuff like that...
[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="champion837"] God is known for creating (which is why we call him "God"), so he would create time as well. No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God. That sorta throws out the whole "God is infinite and everlasting" theory Time didn't exist before the big bang Perhaps the Big Bang did not occur? And lets just say that it did, time is the only thing in or out of the universe which had always been in existence. Time has no creator, it is essentially the unintended creator of everything, because everything exists or has existed in time.
[QUOTE="Mike-uk"] No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God. chaoscougar1
Time created everything? How is that? Time cannot create, it is something that is placed in the plane of existence. God can transcend time, know what is going to happen before it does..... and stuff like that...
What created time if God did not?
Physics?
I believe in the creator (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I put the spirit in priority over something that doesnt feel "physics".
[QUOTE="Mike-uk"][QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="Mike-uk"] No not necessarily, for God to even attempt to create anything it would require time. The beginning of Gods existence would have had to been a produce of time. Time created everything, not God. That sorta throws out the whole "God is infinite and everlasting" theory Time didn't exist before the big bang Perhaps the Big Bang did not occur? And lets just say that it did, time is the only thing in or out of the universe which had always been in existence. Time has no creator, it is essentially the unintended creator of everything, because everything exists or has existed in time. Its either that or M-theory And what about space hmmmmm?
Yes, anything else is must be wrong, those two things had to had occur *waits another hundred years for another theory*, then it would be the gas theory, and then everything else must be wrong after that:roll:
[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] Its either that or M-theorychampion837
Yes, anything else is must be wrong, those two things had to had occur *waits another hundred years for another theory*, then it would be the gas theory, and then everything else must be wrong after that:roll:
Sorry I can't look to the future to see what theories pan out and which do not However, those two theories are our best estimates at the current time At least science updates it's theories with new discoveries and thoughts Christians pretty much wait for a scientific discovery then just add God at the end
Time is a result of the universe God created. And God obviously exists outside of it.
Not a hard concept.
chaoscougar1
God exists outside our universe in a place independent of time That is an extremely hard concept "extremely hard" We are talking about "God", not a normal dude, so of course he would be able to do it.
Time is a result of the universe God created. And God obviously exists outside of it.
Not a hard concept.
champion837
God exists outside our universe in a place independent of time That is an extremely hard concept "extremely hard" We are talking about "God", not a normal dude, so of course he would be able to do it. That's brilliant reasoning God can do it because God Infallible
[QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] God exists outside our universe in a place independent of time That is an extremely hard conceptchaoscougar1
"extremely hard" We are talking about "God", not a normal dude, so of course he would be able to do it. That's brilliant reasoning God can do it because God Infallible
If you don't believe in God in the first place that's fine.
[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] Its either that or M-theorychaoscougar1
Yes, anything else is must be wrong, those two things had to had occur *waits another hundred years for another theory*, then it would be the gas theory, and then everything else must be wrong after that:roll:
Sorry I can't look to the future to see what theories pan out and which do not However, those two theories are our best estimates at the current time At least science updates it's theories with new discoveries and thoughts Christians pretty much wait for a scientific discovery then just add God at the end I am just pointing out the psychological flaw of saying what you just said by you ruling out that God created the universe.
[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="champion837"] "extremely hard" We are talking about "God", not a normal dude, so of course he would be able to do it.Neoklondiak
That's brilliant reasoning God can do it because God Infallible
If you don't believe in God in the first place that's fine.
Please go away, you give Christians a bad name by failing to use any sort of philosophical or logical reasoning.
[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] God exists outside our universe in a place independent of time That is an extremely hard concept "extremely hard" We are talking about "God", not a normal dude, so of course he would be able to do it. That's brilliant reasoning God can do it because God Infallible Your psychology of thinking about it is what is wrong. If we were talking about "gravity", then this wouldnt be an issue, yet that is "extremely hard" (by what you said) to create as well.
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"] Please go away, you give Christians a bad name by failing to use any sort of philosophical or logical reasoning. Neoklondiak
What are you talking about?
Are you mad about what I said in the capitalism thread or something?
Just saying by committing an obvious logical fallacy and using that as a valid argument makes Christians seem dumb. "He's God" is not a valid argument. Like anything you need to use reasoning's to make your claim.
[QUOTE="champion837"][QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="champion837"] "extremely hard" We are talking about "God", not a normal dude, so of course he would be able to do it. That's brilliant reasoning God can do it because God Infallible Your psychology of thinking about it is what is wrong. If we were talking about "gravity", then this wouldnt be an issue, yet that is "extremely hard" (by what you said) to create as well. What does gravity have to do with it? You don't create gravity
Yes, anything else is must be wrong, those two things had to had occur *waits another hundred years for another theory*, then it would be the gas theory, and then everything else must be wrong after that:roll:
champion837
Sorry I can't look to the future to see what theories pan out and which do not However, those two theories are our best estimates at the current time At least science updates it's theories with new discoveries and thoughts Christians pretty much wait for a scientific discovery then just add God at the end I am just pointing out the psychological flaw of saying what you just said by you ruling out that God created the universe. Where is your reasoning and logic behind your theory? hmmm?
Are you mad about what I said in the capitalism thread or something?
Just saying by committing an obvious logical fallacy and using that as a valid argument makes Christians seem dumb. "He's God" is not a valid argument. Like anything you need to use reasoning's to make your claim.
How would you respond then? God doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that humans can always rationalize with the limited amount of information we have.
Are you mad about what I said in the capitalism thread or something?
Just saying by committing an obvious logical fallacy and using that as a valid argument makes Christians seem dumb. "He's God" is not a valid argument. Like anything you need to use reasoning's to make your claim. I'm not entirely sure logical fallacies can really be seen as any less valid than anything else when discussing a being quite literally capable of anything and everything with no exceptions.
Are you mad about what I said in the capitalism thread or something?
Neoklondiak
Just saying by committing an obvious logical fallacy and using that as a valid argument makes Christians seem dumb. "He's God" is not a valid argument. Like anything you need to use reasoning's to make your claim.
How would you respond then?
Well I would start by not making the claim that God existing outside of time is an easy concept. In fact it is a quite difficult concept that we as humans can never fully hope to understand. However I would then point out the Aristotelian understanding of matter and form and how a view of the universe in this regard can help us at least catch a glimpse of how it could be possible for a deity to exist outside of the restraints of a material universe, because in fact true form would require no such material cooperations such as time. Of course you then have to be able to defend the idea that maybe the universe, not God is pure form, a task even more difficult. In the end an argument like this would be extremely difficult if not impossible over an internet forum.
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