Communism VS. Laissez-Faire Capitalism

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StripTheSoul

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#151 StripTheSoul
Member since 2009 • 1665 Posts

Easily capitalism.

Screw this equality crap.

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coolbeans90

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#152 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]I don't know they both suck when there is nothing mixed.....but I suppose Communism because when a monopoly happens there is nothing no one can do. The company could make milk $20 for all they care. I'd rather work for the same then be worked to death trying to afford things like milk or oil.MgamerBD

Thing is, people would stop buying milk. Sure prices would be higher, but profit comes from quantity x price. I think the assumption that monopolies would control the entire market is rather... baseless. Sure, in Laissez-faire capitalism, some monopolies would come into existence. However the idea that most industries would in point of fact be monopolized is rather... baseless.

true...but still. If a company had the power to raise prices of such things as food. Things people need to survive. There is nothing stopping them from doing it.

Yes, the prices are more elastic for goods necessary for survival. However, there would be the constant threat of a rising competitor which could take their market share by starting a price war...

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coolbeans90

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#153 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="megahaloman64"]

In the cold war, which country ended up in a giant econimic hole? Exactly.

Ace_WondersX

The United States is NOT a laissez-faire capitalistic state. How many times will I have to say this?

Probably about as often as you'll need to say U.S.S.R. wasn't communist :P

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Commander-Gree

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#154 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
I'll pick Laissez-Faire any day.
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Major_Commie

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#155 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts

real communism has no government.

i picked communism because its more humane

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SeanDog123

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#156 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts
Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.
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RushMetallica

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#157 RushMetallica
Member since 2007 • 4501 Posts
Capitolism, but not laisez-faire. True Keneasian (or however its spelled) works the best. If only people could view things long-term.
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Major_Commie

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#158 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.SeanDog123
despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.
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SeanDog123

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#159 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts
Capitolism, but not laisez-faire. True Keneasian (or however its spelled) works the best. If only people could view things long-term.RushMetallica
No it doesn't... Keynesian economics are fun and easy, but only build up debt long term.
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SeanDog123

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#160 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts
[QUOTE="SeanDog123"]Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.Major_Commie
despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.

You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.
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Major_Commie

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#161 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"]Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.SeanDog123
despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.

You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.

such compelling (emotion based) arguments.
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coolbeans90

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#162 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="RushMetallica"]Capitolism, but not laisez-faire. True Keneasian (or however its spelled) works the best. If only people could view things long-term.SeanDog123
No it doesn't... Keynesian economics are fun and easy, but only build up debt long term.

I am not a huge fan of Keynesian economics myself, but it's not nearly as simple as that. If the government could spend large sums of to get the economy moving again, in the long run, it may pay itself off. In theory, it works very well. I am rather skeptical of the Federal government's ability to apply Keynesian policies. I'd hardly call the stimulus an appropriate application of Keynesian economics. A lot of the spending in the bill is not spent in a way which would have a large multiplier effect, or employ many people.

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NLahren

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#163 NLahren
Member since 2009 • 1927 Posts
capitalism is good when u have a lot of luck sozialism is better
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fidosim

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#164 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts

real communism has no government.

i picked communism because its more humane

Major_Commie
Robbing someone of their ambitions and the fruits of their human faculties is just about the most inhumane thing human beings can do to one another.
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SeanDog123

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#165 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"] despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.

You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.

such compelling (emotion based) arguments.

It's emotion based because its so sad to me that America is becoming a socialist country. The free market produces the best products at the lowest cost because the people determine them. Socialism is very far from freedom, and very close to communism.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#166 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Hrmm, slavery or freedom? I'll take freedom, therefore, i'll take capitalism.

I_am_george
Communism is not slavery.. Marx was actually pretty partial to the British political system.. Both systems to their extremes, are extremely flawed.. In the end both will turn into slavery..
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coolbeans90

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#167 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="SeanDog123"]Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.Major_Commie
despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

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leviathan91

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#168 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

capitalism is good when u have a lot of luck sozialism is better NLahren

When an individual or family has a good income/works hard, pays off their debt, and make responsible decisions, they get luckier over time.

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theone86

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#169 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.SeanDog123

It's only freedom in the loosest sense of the word, if we're talking about lassez-faire that is. I'll take this moment to point out that neither communism or capitalism when used as braod terms say anything about government or freedoms of a society, they're simply economic models. However, a true lassez-faire society would only be a completely free society in the sense that anyone could do whatever they want without fear of regulation, so yes in that sense it means freedom. However, when we start talking about civil liberties, rights, standards of living, then everything is in the hands of the wealthy elite. They control jobs, education, and access to both; they control necessary goods like food and water; they control industries like power, fuel, and other necessities, and to top it all off they have no regulation so they can use their wealth and resources to manipulate markets, politics, and society in general without opposition, save for maybe an all-outrevolt. Perhaps freedom is protected, but life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are thrown out entirely for most of the population.

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Major_Commie

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#170 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"]

real communism has no government.

i picked communism because its more humane

fidosim
Robbing someone of their ambitions and the fruits of their human faculties is just about the most inhumane thing human beings can do to one another.

no its not the most inhumane thing a person can do to another. but thats not really the point because you havent described communism
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Major_Commie

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#171 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"]Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.coolbeans90

despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.
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SeanDog123

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#172 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"]Capitalism is true freedom. I don't think many people understand that.coolbeans90

despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

In a socialist society, every single citizen is in debt to the government.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#173 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"] You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.SeanDog123
such compelling (emotion based) arguments.

It's emotion based because its so sad to me that America is becoming a socialist country. The free market produces the best products at the lowest cost because the people determine them. Socialism is very far from freedom, and very close to communism.

Your statement illustrates that your completely ignorant of the situation.. Guess how much the United States government owns of businesses in the United States? A whooping number less then 1 %.. Man that sure sounds like communism.. Furthermore our system has been the strongest when it has been mixed.. The largest changes were in the late 1800s, and early 1900s to today.. That time period is far more important for the US's gaining in economic strength then anything before that ever mustered.. You are seriously nieve if you think that a complete capitalism would be any better then a complete communism.. They would both lead to the same things, of a elite controling every one through tyranny.
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T_P_O

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#174 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts
[QUOTE="SeanDog123"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"] You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.

such compelling (emotion based) arguments.

It's emotion based because its so sad to me that America is becoming a socialist country. The free market produces the best products at the lowest cost because the people determine them. Socialism is very far from freedom, and very close to communism.

Socialism =/= authoritarianism, communism =/= totalitarianism.
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SeanDog123

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#175 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"] despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.Major_Commie

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.

Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.
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Ace6301

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#176 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
Laissez-Faire Capitalism can lead to very, very bad things. Communism (true communism) is the lesser of two evils here.
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Major_Commie

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#177 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="SeanDog123"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"] You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.

such compelling (emotion based) arguments.

It's emotion based because its so sad to me that America is becoming a socialist country. The free market produces the best products at the lowest cost because the people determine them. Socialism is very far from freedom, and very close to communism.

until our system becomes about equality, its not socialist. communism and socialism are pretty different. why did you ignore my arguments and spout dogma?
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Major_Commie

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#178 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

SeanDog123

for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.

Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.

really? when? which forms of socialism have beem tried?

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fidosim

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#179 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"]

real communism has no government.

i picked communism because its more humane

Major_Commie
Robbing someone of their ambitions and the fruits of their human faculties is just about the most inhumane thing human beings can do to one another.

no its not the most inhumane thing a person can do to another. but thats not really the point because you havent described communism

The goal is no material inequalities, is it not?
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theone86

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#180 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="SeanDog123"] You sir have either been brainwashed, or have no idea what capitalism is. You are wrong.SeanDog123
such compelling (emotion based) arguments.

It's emotion based because its so sad to me that America is becoming a socialist country. The free market produces the best products at the lowest cost because the people determine them. Socialism is very far from freedom, and very close to communism.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

If that were true people would only pay enough for a product to justify its production cost plus the profit necessary to keep the company operational. You need only to look to the profits companies are posting for things as simple as toys to see that statement is false.

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coolbeans90

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#181 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"] despotism isnt freedom. if someone land locks you, you arent free. capitalism cant be freedom.Major_Commie

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.

I see an "if..."

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#182 SeanDog123
Member since 2005 • 1327 Posts

[QUOTE="SeanDog123"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"] for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.Major_Commie

Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.

really? when? which forms of socialism have beem tried?

It doesn't matter, its just bad. Poor people need to be weeded out of our society and slowly killed, not supported by taxpayers.
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jetpower3

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#183 jetpower3
Member since 2005 • 11631 Posts

I've changed my mind. I'm choosing laissez-faire capitalism because it better suits my ambitions. Actually the other choice would be horrible for me.

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Major_Commie

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#184 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="fidosim"] Robbing someone of their ambitions and the fruits of their human faculties is just about the most inhumane thing human beings can do to one another.

no its not the most inhumane thing a person can do to another. but thats not really the point because you havent described communism

The goal is no material inequalities, is it not?

no. communism: A classless society with no exploitation. No state machine used by one section of the population to oppress another section. No need for professional armies or police forces. No use of production for profit or exchange. Society runs in accord with the principle: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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T_P_O

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#185 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"]

[QUOTE="SeanDog123"] Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.SeanDog123

really? when? which forms of socialism have beem tried?

It doesn't matter, its just bad. Poor people need to be weeded out of our society and slowly killed, not supported by taxpayers.

True colours or badly timed sarcasm? :/
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coolbeans90

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#186 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

SeanDog123

for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.

Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.

I think we're talking about communism dude. Different arguments...

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fidosim

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#187 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts

I've changed my mind. I'm choosing laissez-faire capitalism because it better suits my ambitions.

jetpower3
It better suits ambitions, period.
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Ace6301

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#188 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"]

[QUOTE="SeanDog123"] Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.SeanDog123

really? when? which forms of socialism have beem tried?

It doesn't matter, its just bad. Poor people need to be weeded out of our society and slowly killed, not supported by taxpayers.

I have this book I think you might enjoy good sir. It's rather long winded and fairly poorly written though...
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Major_Commie

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#189 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"]

[QUOTE="SeanDog123"] Socialism has been proven to be ineffective, stop arguing.SeanDog123

really? when? which forms of socialism have beem tried?

It doesn't matter, its just bad. Poor people need to be weeded out of our society and slowly killed, not supported by taxpayers.

so you dont actually believe in capitalism? youre more of a fascist then
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#190 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Why do you think capitalism cannot be freedom? Seems like an emotionally charged argument that is loaded with assumptions...

for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.

I see an "if..."

Complete "freedom" as it were through capitalism is a paradox.. Because in the end it turns into slavery in which the person with the biggest stick keeps the rest down for their own gains.. Government intervention on some levels such as creating workers rights, a minimum wage, etc etc prevents the elite from choking the rest of the population to death.. Its silly to suggest that real capitalism is any better then real communism.. Both are tremendously flawed..
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fidosim

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#191 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"] no its not the most inhumane thing a person can do to another. but thats not really the point because you havent described communism

The goal is no material inequalities, is it not?

no. communism: A classless society with no exploitation. No state machine used by one section of the population to oppress another section. No need for professional armies or police forces. No use of production for profit or exchange. Society runs in accord with the principle: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

A classless society. I.E. No social or economic inequalities. People are divided into classes based on those criteria.
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Major_Commie

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#192 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

I've changed my mind. I'm choosing laissez-faire capitalism because it better suits my ambitions.

fidosim
It better suits ambitions, period.

i disagree, i would rather be able to do whatever project i want without worrying about money. this is where true communism would work best. true communism has never been tried unfortunately, and i dont know if its even possible.
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leviathan91

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#193 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

I've changed my mind. I'm choosing laissez-faire capitalism because it better suits my ambitions.

fidosim

It better suits ambitions, period.

The human race is an ambitious race. Limit their ambitions (i.e. drive to greater wealth, knowledge, power), then progress would only decline and I fear that society would only enter a comatose state, similar to the middle ages. Capitalism works. It has its faults but it works. Communism would never work.

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Major_Commie

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#194 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="fidosim"] The goal is no material inequalities, is it not?

no. communism: A classless society with no exploitation. No state machine used by one section of the population to oppress another section. No need for professional armies or police forces. No use of production for profit or exchange. Society runs in accord with the principle: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

A classless society. I.E. No social or economic inequalities. People are divided into classes based on those criteria.

in a communist society you can take what you need. it does not mean you have to be completely equal to everyone else. a family living on a farm, living off of the land is a primitive example of communism.
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Major_Commie

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#195 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Major_Commie"] for the reasons i mentioned in the quote.sSubZerOo

I see an "if..."

Complete "freedom" as it were through capitalism is a paradox.. Because in the end it turns into slavery in which the person with the biggest stick keeps the rest down for their own gains.. Government intervention on some levels such as creating workers rights, a minimum wage, etc etc prevents the elite from choking the rest of the population to death.. Its silly to suggest that real capitalism is any better then real communism.. Both are tremendously flawed..

the dogma preached by right wingers is always about freedom until the argument turns into "well, people would be too lazy if they could do whatever they want."
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fidosim

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#196 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="jetpower3"]

I've changed my mind. I'm choosing laissez-faire capitalism because it better suits my ambitions.

Major_Commie
It better suits ambitions, period.

i disagree, i would rather be able to do whatever project i want without worrying about money. this is where true communism would work best. true communism has never been tried unfortunately, and i dont know if its even possible.

I suppose you could stop "worrying about money" when you're positive that you won't be getting as much as you're worth, regardless of your capacities.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#197 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="jetpower3"]

I've changed my mind. I'm choosing laissez-faire capitalism because it better suits my ambitions.

It better suits ambitions, period.

The human race is an ambitious race. Limit their ambitions (i.e. drive to greater wealth, knowledge, power), then progress would only decline and I fear that society would only enter a comatose state, similar to the middle ages. Capitalism works. It has its faults but it works. Communism would never work.

Real capitalsim does not work.. It will create the same kind of staganation..
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Major_Commie

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#198 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"][QUOTE="fidosim"] It better suits ambitions, period.

i disagree, i would rather be able to do whatever project i want without worrying about money. this is where true communism would work best. true communism has never been tried unfortunately, and i dont know if its even possible.

I suppose you could stop "worrying about money" when you're positive that you won't be getting as much as you're worth, regardless of your capacities.

no. you wouldnt have to worry about money because whatever you need is available to everyone. for example, if i wanted to prove some scientific fact in a capitalist society i would need money, if i dont have money, the people who DO have money have power over me. in a true communist society, i can just gather the resources.
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#199 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
[QUOTE="Major_Commie"] in a communist society you can take what you need. it does not mean you have to be completely equal to everyone else. a family living on a farm, living off of the land is a primitive example of communism.

Sort of like what the Khmer Rouge did to Cambodia? That's your idea of a perfect society?
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#200 Major_Commie
Member since 2009 • 186 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="Major_Commie"] in a communist society you can take what you need. it does not mean you have to be completely equal to everyone else. a family living on a farm, living off of the land is a primitive example of communism.

Sort of like what the Khmer Rouge did to Cambodia? That's your idea of a perfect society?

communism has never been tried on any significant scale.