All things related to Donald Trump's ever-growing legal woes

@sargentd: The rigged court in Florida gags Trump now he can not defend him self - look at select leak in MSM to affect Trump but if he say any counter argue he will have the contempt of courts and large penalty fine and every body want to put him in jail and he can not take any risk.

@thatforumuser: our DOJ and Intelligence Agencies are compromised. They hate Trump, they will go to extreme measures to stop him. But the funny thing about it is, when they over extend to go after Trump like this, they show their own ass everytime. Trump just existing has pulled off mask and we can see exactly for what they are.

Lots of things happening right now.

MSM ignoring it to talk about dead rich people who got in a submarine that's controlled by a PS3 controller. Apparently the FED knew it imploded 5 days ago lol...

That;s why we need this trial. To establish precedent.

This might come as a shock, but corruption in many other countries is punished! Yes, even foreign leaders; presidents and prime ministers.

We need this trial to go through and, if guilty, for Trump to go to prison. So in the future, presidents and politicians that commit these sins (and others) are likewise punished for them.

I mean the whole reason Trump did this is because we don't punish presidents when we should. There should be many presidents sitting in jail right now (or should have been, since most are old and dead).

America needs this trial to occur, and if guilty, America needs Trump in prison. If not for basic law and order and justice, than at least as a cautionary tale for future leaders.

And sure, same applies to Biden and any other president if there is enough evidence. It's just there isn't.

@thatforumuser: a lot happening

FBI is a joke now. What a bunch of clowns

This guy... "We will share within our perimeters" x100 drone behavior.

Joe Biden exposed for "allegedly" pocketing.....

Yeah. Little problem called evidence to substantiate the desperate conspiracy theories.

Jared Kushner got 2 billion from Saudi Arabia after Trump did nothing when Saudis murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi, after Trump had approved 8.1 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia.

Trump made just resently $4 billion deal with Saudi Arabian real estate developer

And that's only couple of the Trump family deals with the Saudis. Then there's the LIV golf deal. Maybe Biden and his family made few millions, that's bad. But Trump and his family made billions by doing whatever the Saudis asked them to do. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia, MbS, went so far that said reportedly that Kushner was in his pocket

Trump is the most corrupt president the US has had ever and that is a very high bar to cross.

From what I've seen of the GOP House, it's nothing but a clown show to get revenge because trump was found out and so far being held somewhat accountable. MAGA is not Conservative nor is it the Republican Party that's existed in the past. I honestly wonder about why people are voting for these unqualified children. Their lives depend on government policy, yet they line up to vote for a letter, not a candidate.

@sargentd: Your defence of Trump is always that someone else did something else that maybe was illegal.

10 million dollar bribe from a foreign national vs having boxes taken home

Eh.. it's worth comparing what goes checked and what goes unchecked by the DoJ

Oh it's all about revenge. This whole thing, when whittled down, is nothing but partisan one-upmansship. Not to imply that Trump didn't break the law, he did. For Biden, I'm not a cult member. I don't care if he's charged or found in wrongdoing. If he is, nail him to the wall. For Trump supporters, they're beholdened to personality. Pathetic, especially considering what type of personality they worship.

They're voting for these children because they're in the grips of demagoguery from a conman who has deceived them. I have to wonder what the conservative party is going to be left with after Trump. He's used it and exploited it to his own gain, for no care for it, and he's going to leave it in ruins. Then those cult members are going to begging for the likes of Cheney to return.

I wonder if Trump should release a second series of his trading cards, depicting all of his recent achievements.

I will happily trade one shiny Trump Gets Caught Hoarding Military Secrets for an extended art Trump Accidentally Convinces A Jury That He's A Rapist.

@sargentd: Incredible that Trump is being persecuted for bringing home cereal boxes. Witch-hunt!!!

CNN has published the audio recording on their website.

It's exactly as the transcript described. He's bragging about his "highly classified" documents, showing them to people "off the record", and saying that he can't declassify them because he isn't the president anymore.

The tape alone should be enough to put anyone in prison, even Trump. The tons of other evidence of him obstructing the DOJ and hiding the documents should be enough to keep him there.

Yeah it’s a remarkable listen.

I can’t decide what to believe about Trump. Is he literally so stupid that he held no idea about the legal peril he was putting himself in? He must’ve known he was being documented, and by his own admission, knew he couldn’t do what he was. Yet he openly bragged about it.

Is it arrogance? Does he live under the belief that he is untouchable? Trump has always been incredibly shrewd in his ability to operate around the boundaries of the law; to flirt right alongside the ambiguities of its determinations of accountability, but this is him giving himself no room to wiggle. I almost believe that he wants to be caught, or wanted to see how flagrantly he could push it.

When you are extremely insecure, no amount of bragging, praise etc could satiated the insecurities, thus the unbelievable behavior that has been thoroughly documented of the former president.

Does anyone at all care that these documents apparently show that the Pentagon was plotting for America to go to war with Iran? And Trump is calling them out for it in the recording??

Even Robbie, the anti trump metrosexual from the Hill can recognize... That's a bigger story than Trump having documents given to him by the military after his presidency

@sargentd: That story isn't being raised because that's not what the documents show.

But they are sharing this recording as evidence?? He's talking about papers saying the military plans war against Iran??? Why even share this recording if the documents he's talking about in the recording... Aren't the documents they are talking about???

@sargentd: "He's talking about papers saying the military plans war against Iran??"

That's not what the papers say. Please understand what contingency plans are - plans on what to do should something occur, not plans on what they intend to do under current conditions.

To put it in more light hearted terms as requested by users of this site:

It like when Batman develops plans on how to take out Superman. He doesn't develop them with the intention of using them, he develops them in case he has to use them.

@sargentd: "Does anyone at all care that these documents apparently show that the Pentagon was plotting for America to go to war with Iran? And Trump is calling them out for it in the recording??"

Stuff like this exists as contingency plans. Doesn't mean there's a desire for conflict, just that if one ever does break out, they already have plans for a coordinated response to any number of potential scenarios, including some of the most imaginative and unlikely situations. Point is to be prepaired to respond to any conceivable eventuality, no matter how likely or unlikely. Hell, not kidding here, Pentagon already has a contingencies in the event of a global zombie apocalypse.

It'd be laughable to think that Trump's base even concerns themselves about avoiding conflict with Iran given he's done a lot to unilaterally roll back years of diplomatic progress with the Iran nuclear deal. Trump himself has no need to have his hands on such documents unless he planned to horde them to sell to the Saudis.

@lamprey263: @mattbbpl: but what do these plans say? And if this recording is in regards to those plans? And those plans aren't in the documents for this case.. then why does this recording matter at all.

Honestly both of you are giving the military the benefit of the doubt and don't raise the slightest eyebrow? Not at all curious to what they were planning in regards to Iran??

@sargentd: the Pentagon serves at the behest of both the President of the United States, Secretary of Defense, and their activities and funding and oversight by Congress and their committees.

Why would I worry unless there was a total nutjob in the White House like that diaper wearing spicy Cheeto, or a bunch of his rabid enablers living in fantasy land serving in Congress?

When you talk like this and aren't responding to my questions, comes across as you being blinded by your hate for Trump that you can't see that there are legitimate questions being asked here.

First that is NOT what those papers were. We have contingency plans for every country in case something happens. . Also it's EXTREMELY SENSITIVE and should not be shown around to assuage ego.

@sargentd: I answered your question, why should I be worried? Pentagon acts with oversight from the Executive and Legislative branch. Right now they're engaged in diplomatic efforts to bring back the Iran nuclear deal that Trump unraveled. There's no indication United States of America is on the verge of a hostile military action toward Iran, rather, just the opposite. And I take greater comfort knowing General Milley was so concerned about Trump's unhinged behavior that the top brass held a meeting and agreed to defy any calls to action Trump might request without first getting General Milley's approval. A good indication the Pentagon isn't just going to blindly follow orders of severe consequence out of the blue. If a war with Iran were to happen it would be deliberated for months before it actually happened, and again, no indication except from a circle jerk of conjecture from people ill informed right wing extremists who live in a bubble of a make believe shared dilusions.

Thank u Donald J Trump drain the Pentagon Swamp - every lib complain when he put Chris Miller but now the Republic becomes thankfull.

You r welcome.

Donald J Trump trying to prove about correct action on Iran but the corruption is showing when the government try to persecute him when he discuss his argument - exactly my prediction before the MSM have specific leak to target Trump and he can not defend bc the Judge order to discuss nothing - very unfair.

@thatforumuser: "Donald J Trump trying to prove about correct action on Iran but the corruption is showing when the government try to persecute him when he discuss his argument - exactly my prediction before the MSM have specific leak to target Trump and he can not defend bc the Judge order to discuss nothing - very unfair."

He's being prosecuted for illegal retention of classified materials under the Espionage Act. He's not on trial because he thinks a contingency plan vindicated him for criticism he may face regarding foreign policy... but if he were he'd lose that fight too. 🤣

And of course the details of the classied documents he was in possession of is being protected by judge. It's classified. If they weren't, and Trump keeps saying they were declassified, we'd know. The fact we don't have these documents in question publicly available means they were never declassified, also means Trump is lying. More importantly just illustrates though that those that belive him are 💯 lying to themselves.

@lamprey263: U think this is fair to leak prosecution tape with Donald J Trump hand tied behind the back?

Prosecution cannot withhold evidence. He's guilty.

You do know we have plans to attack EVERY country, right? They're called contingency plans. Some old ones have even leaked. You can go read how we 'planned to attack' places such as Canada and the UK in the 50's and 60's.

Sounds stupid? Because you're not thinking deep enough.

These scenarios cover such cases as where the US declares war against and embargoes a third party, but Canada/UK keeps trading with them. There's all kinds of scenarios the military plans for that never happens.

It's standard practice, and it's not even modern. Hell, look up Plan Red.

As far as I'm aware, nothing is precluding Trump from going on TV and spewing his delusions and lies. He's already done so. He's simply not allowed to discuss with those involved in the case, like his co-defendant Nauta.

But something tells me that's not going to matter. Trump will Trump, regardless of what people impose upon him.

Huh, I wrote a big long post that went missing.

Anyway, it's important to not be distracted by arguments about the content of the documents. The contents really don't matter - if they've been given confidential designations, it doesn't matter whether they are invasion plans or soup recipes.Either way, it's illegal to show them to people, and illegal to lie to the DOJ about returning them.

Those are the parts that Trump can't avoid, because the evidence supporting those points is airtight.

@thatforumuser: "U think this is fair to leak prosecution tape with Donald J Trump hand tied behind the back?"

Donald Trump isn't prohibited from seeing the classified documents, but there are restrictions to how, and it has to be in the presence of his legal council, given their sensitivity, doubly appropriate in the greater context of the crimes he's accused of. He cannot retain these documents or copies of them for his personal records. And even though you're oh-so super-duper very wrong about Trump having access to discovery, it'd be amusing to act like it's exculpatory evidence, it's the exact opposite, it's the smoking gun, and yeah, he has access to it, or else it couldn't be used in trial by prosecution, it's just controlled access.

The judge will likely set additional constraints during the evidentiary hearing. Both sides will tell the judge what evidence and witnesses they plan to use, in prosecution/defense and how they plan to structure their prosecution/defense, both sides can make submission and suppression requests and a judge will rule on those before the trial begins. The prosecution and defense will know what they can and can't talk about.

Mostly likely the judge will not grant evidence of irrelevant facts to the trial. Any of the normal right wing spin like arguing the the tape vindicated him because the issue was he's being prosecuted for policy and a contingency plan constitutes hypocrisy by Milley ergo Trump is innocent, the judge would slap the fuuuck out of any attorney that brings that bullshit before their court, even a MAGA nutter recruited from the Federalist Society. Nor would a competent judge allow the defense to argue something along lines that this is a President Records Act issue and the law doesn't say what he did isn't a crime, again, because the judge knows he's being prosecuted under criminal statutes laid out under the Espionage Act. None of that right wing spin BS you all love because even though you can't wrap your heads around it you think the person who thought it up must be a genius. I think it'll be a jump-ball whether she'll even let him argue his claim he declassified them, because the judge will know this isn't the case. But even if she granted that, the prosecution will tear that defense to shreds.

And who leaked this tape? Could have been Trump, there'd be no restriction from him having access to other evidence that doesn't require such protections, and leaked it thinking it would vindicate him. That's the spin you guys slurped up with no resistance to its absurdity. Worse is despite this tape he has countless times admitted to having these classified documents, just he claims he has a right to them, also something a judge might prohibit claiming in court. No lawyer either will argue that for him, and I am sure any competent lawyer won't let Trump take the stand to argue that himself as a cross examination from the prosecutors will seal the deal.

And I really don't see this tape as enlightening in the least since we knew of this event during his indictment, we just hear it outright and not just read a transcription. The groundbreaking news of late IMO is how he's likely going to indicted again in the fake electors plot, that all requests to testify to the grand jury about it have until end of month to do so. Sounds like he'll be indicating Trump AGAIN in coming weeks.

Also, the world isn't trying Trump's arms behind his back, he's doing it himself. Any defense Trump could have tried, like feigning ignorance he had them, gone the moment he admits to taking them. He even could have avoided a lot of his troubles if he listened to his lawyers. Again, his fault. Some point this guy needs to learn a lesson, not feed his sense of entitlement never to be held accountable.

@br0kenrabbit: they even have a contingency plan should the zombie apocalypse happen, yes, they have every angle covered

In the show "The Increasingly Poor Decisions Of Todd Margaret", the central character is a habitual liar, and among many of his countless lies is that he was born in Leeds. By the end of season two he's standing trial for a litany of serious crimes, but during his trial a bombshells is dropped that one of the many lies he told, the one about him being born in Leeds, unbeknownst to him turned out to be true all along.

Him and his defense attorney jubilantly celebrate within the courtroom as if this development exonerated him from the numerous crimes he's standing trial for. Of course, this is a total non sequitur, has no bearing on the charges he faces, and he's found guilty.

Anyhow, I bring this up because this whole line of reasoning from Trump's most faithful devotees about the leaked audio exonerated him is... well, his Todd Margaret in court moment of premature celebration.

It is more likely that Trump's team themselves leaked the tapes. The prosecution had the tapes for 11 months. After indictment the prosecution must turn over all evidence to the defence. In this case, the prosecution turned over the evidence including the recording and 2 days later it was leaked. Then we get Trump releasing endless drivel attacking the recording with fantasy defense.

It is the opposite of Trump having having his hands tied behind his back. Indeed, everything Trump accuses others of saying/doing is actually projection of himself, which isn't surprising for a malignant narcissist.

@SUD123456: More indictments may be forthcoming. He's being investigated for January 6 and documents in New Jersey.

Doesn't make sense for media to report this recording as evidence in this documents case with Trump.... if its not a recording of the documents in the case..??

Even Tim Bald came to the same realization

Media is filled with scumbags

@sargentd: The thought is trump/his team leaked it. You can't deny now though he knew he had classified documents unsecured and was waving them around to people that shouldn't have seen them.

no way.. makes 0 sense

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

― George Orwell, 1984

Come on... give me one good reason Trump's legal team would leak this audio to CNN.. nobody who wants to protect Trump would be leaking this to mislead people into thinking he's talking about the documents in this stupid ass case. LJS that doesn't make a lick of sense and you know it.

I will give you two good reasons.

1. It allows him to invent his own fantasy narrative of what he was holding and talking about....which is exactly the nonsensical garbo that he has posted now in response. In short, it is an attempt to drive and redefine the narrative now...before a trial. It is way better to try to weave whatever bullshit fantasy story now to influence opinions of weak minded people, then it is to try to do that in court where facts and evidence actually matter.

2. The defense will use knowledge of and the prior hearing of the recording to try to weed out potential jurors. Normal people will respond truthfully to jury selection questions. Trump supporters will parrot whatever he tells them to say and/or simply lie.

Sure it does. The defense knows that this will come out in court. They know everyone will hear it, it's unavoidable, and it is pretty damning. If you leak it, you accomplish two things: 1) you nullify the potency, impact and shock it will have when initially heard as evidence (even though there's already a transcript of it), and 2) it will allow Trump and his team to get in front of it and attempt to direct it to their benefit.

Which is how he's trying to beat this. He's obviously appealing to the court of public opinion to try to con them into believing his story above the law's, as a court is comprised of the people. Perhaps in the hopes if he can persuade enough, the case will somehow be dropped, or influenced in a certain way enough to get him off. He's going to be trying his best to take this by the reigns, and getting it out there in front allows him to try his best to take control and defang it or redirect it.

I personally don't believe the defense leaked this, but I do see a rationale behind it if they in fact did.

Honestly, the mental gymnastics you go through are amazing. Maybe look up the definition of contingency plan. I would offer to mail a dictionary to you, but there's this thing called the 'internet' that you can use to help you understand words and concepts. You should try it.

You could even make your own contingency plan, like maybe a fire escape plan for your family/home... which does not mean you plan on setting your house on fire.

Prosecution had it for quite some time. Evidence was released to the defense, it goes public.

As for why, because it lets trump set the narrative and pollute the jury poll.

@sargentd Is there a point where you will drop your support for Trump?