All things related to Donald Trump's ever-growing legal woes

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lamprey263

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#1  Edited By lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 43937 Posts

Update: updated the topic title to include everything from his federal Flordia and DC criminal indictments, his New York case, and his Georgia indictments coming down tonight. Feel free to discuss any civil cases ongoing as well, like with E Jean Carroll or Michael Cohen.

- - - - -

Given there's no more Political Gamera forum, this is the most appropriate place by default, so...

So, this is all according to Donald Trump himself. Good. I don't think the issue was so much he had them, others have had them when they shouldn't, as sure his die-hard defenders will point out. But none went to the lengths he did to retain them, the obstruct their return, or even obstruct the investigations. He should be held accountable.

According to Trump's social media posts, he's expected to appear in Florida on Tuesday. Guess we'll see if he'll still live up to his Teflon Don nickname.

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DaVillain

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#2 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 54942 Posts

Just 7 counts? Seems light if you ask me. Best to wait until Tuesday to find out what they really are.

This seems light treason.

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lamprey263

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#3 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 43937 Posts

@davillain said:

Just 7 counts? Seems light if you ask me. Best to wait until Tuesday to find out what they really are.

This seems light treason.

Could be for multitude of reasons. For starters it's been discussed this is an Espionage Act case where document classification won't be relevant, and easier to prosecute given how disputing the nature of classified documents can muddle proceedings. They also discussed on TV why there's a Florida federal grand jury, and something to do with the conservative Supreme Court is sitting on ruling over the issue of venue in federal cases and whether if that's ever contested they may decide that cases can't be retried if it means getting Trump off the hook. Maybe they're keeping the scope of charges narrow because of the venue, under that consideration that the venue can be contested and charges tossed. There's also consideration of time with regard to the 2024 elections. I also figure, depending on how this plays out, that they can always pursue additional charges later, and if that's the case it might be easier after he's been convicted, both in obtaining information and with the DOJ dealing with his hostile political supporters after he's been publicly disgraced in the national and worldwide spotlight.

But, as you say, guess we'll see when they list the charges. I don't think they'll be light. And to Donald Trump, he takes the slightest of slights as the worst affront to his ego. No doubt he'll be Truth Social'ing on the shitter at 3am about how he's the worst treated person in history and how it's so unfair he never once did anything wrong. This really needs to be his theme song:

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SUD123456

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#4 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6897 Posts

Willful Retention under the Espionage Act, Conspiracy to Obstruct, and False Statements (this one is possibly also a Conspiracy charge).

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LJS9502_basic

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#5 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178620 Posts

Deservedly so.

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MirkoS77

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#6 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17528 Posts

Good.

But conviction is a whole ‘nother matter entirely, one that I’m skeptical about. But anything that places the heat onto Trump I welcome.

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SargentD

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#7 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

Stupid

and the general public will think it's stupid, especially after seeing Biden with boxes of classified documents laying around his garage.

Double standard.

This will just rally the Trump base and make him more popular. Makes him look like the political outsider. (He kind of is) *shrug*

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Planeforger

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#8  Edited By Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19422 Posts

@sargentd: There's no double standard here.

Trump repeatedly lied about owning the documents and returning the documents, and he supposedly moved them after being instructed to return them. He knew he had them, he knew he hadn't declassified them, and he wanted to share them.

There's a massive difference between that and Biden, who self-reported that he had some documents, agreed to a search to find any more documents, and immediately returned everything he could.

There's also a matter of scale. Biden had 25-30 documents. Trump had 184 (plus any he hasn't returned yet).

So yeah, any member of the general public would obviously side against Trump here. You'd have to be blindingly devoted to the guy to think he wasn't in deep shit for this one.

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SargentD

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#9 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

@Planeforger: you need to hear other people's perspectives, it's good for you. embrace that I interrupted the circle jerk with a different but very valid perspective *pats shoulder*

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SargentD

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#10  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts
Loading Video...

Great Rant! 👍👍👍

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MirkoS77

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#11 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17528 Posts

@sargentd said:

@Planeforger: you need to hear other people's perspectives, it's good for you. embrace that I interrupted the circle jerk with a different but very valid perspective *pats shoulder*

But you haven’t addressed his points as to how it’s not a double standard, which are valid.

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Master_Live

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#12  Edited By Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20510 Posts

No one is (or should be) above the law.

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Master_Live

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#13 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20510 Posts

Also, what happened to the Political Gamers forum?

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Planeforger

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#14  Edited By Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19422 Posts

@sargentd: This isn't about perspectives.

You were in the other thread when this story first broke. You remember Trump initially saying he didn't have any documents. Then he said he returned them. Then he said he didn't return them but he didn't have to. Then he implied that the documents were planted. Then he said everyone took documents and it was fine. Then he said he would have returned them if they just asked him. Then he said the folders were empty. Then he said the documents were declassified.

Trump's stories never lined up. He changed his explanation over and over again, and they can't all be true. He lied, repeatedly. There's audio evidence and other testimony showing that he lied. And now he's facing serious criminal charges.

You were watching this story unfold. You saw Trump repeatedly change his story. So I don't know how you can be across all of that information, and still somehow act shocked at the possibility that maybe he committed a crime.

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#15 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2036 Posts

@Planeforger said:

You were watching this story unfold. You saw Trump repeatedly change his story. So I don't know how you can be across all of that information, and still somehow act shocked at the possibility that maybe he committed a crime.

It's called being in a cult.

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lamprey263

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#16 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 43937 Posts

@SUD123456 said:

Willful Retention under the Espionage Act, Conspiracy to Obstruct, and False Statements (this one is possibly also a Conspiracy charge).

I hope right now he's thinking...

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#17  Edited By Litchie  Online
Member since 2003 • 33815 Posts
@Master_Live said:

Also, what happened to the Political Gamers forum?

GameSpot thought it's better if they'd be the only ones talking politics in articles that they don't let people comment on. So they shut it down.

This website is an embarrassing pile of shit, basically.

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Gifford38

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#18 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 6585 Posts

trump will not be stopped this time. Biden is going to f up more of the united states before trump goes in. 2024 can't come fast enough.

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#19 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178620 Posts

@sargentd said:

@Planeforger: you need to hear other people's perspectives, it's good for you. embrace that I interrupted the circle jerk with a different but very valid perspective *pats shoulder*

What trump did was wrong. Because you hang around echo chambers doesn't change what the majority of people who don't hang around there think about this. He's lost some Republican voters as well. And he didn't have enough voters to start with for a general election.

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shellcase86

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#20 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 6784 Posts

@gifford38 said:

trump will not be stopped this time. Biden is going to f up more of the united states before trump goes in. 2024 can't come fast enough.

Accept the inevitably. Unless sleepy Joe walks by his decision to run again or has a severe health incident, he will have a second term regardless of who the GOP puts up.

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comp_atkins

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#21 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38569 Posts

@Litchie said:
@Master_Live said:

Also, what happened to the Political Gamers forum?

GameSpot thought it's better if they'd be the only ones talking politics in articles that they don't let people comment on. So they shut it down.

This website is an embarrassing pile of shit, basically.

look at that. the most active thread in the past month on OT is a political thread.

soooo we don't want user's interacting with a site now? good for business?

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Serraph105

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#22 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36026 Posts

Donald Trump, always making history :)

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#23 ThatForumUser
Member since 2019 • 596 Posts

I believe in justice - do not believe this smearing until you hear the case in the court under oaths.

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#24 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178620 Posts

@thatforumuser said:

I believe in justice - do not believe this smearing until you hear the case in the court under oaths.

Court does not always render justice.

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#25 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 54942 Posts

@Master_Live said:

Also, what happened to the Political Gamers forum?

Wait, you didn't see the sticky-locked thread in OT? Taken from Gamespot Staff:

Fandom is proud to be a place of belonging for all fans. We take online trust & safety very seriously across all our brands and as of Tuesday, May 16, we closed all political discussion boards on GameSpot and GameFAQs, specifically ones that violate our terms of use by promoting abusive language.

More details here in this thread if you want to hear everyone's opinion: PG forum gone

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SUD123456

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#26  Edited By SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6897 Posts
@SUD123456 said:

Willful Retention under the Espionage Act, Conspiracy to Obstruct, and False Statements (this one is possibly also a Conspiracy charge).

Update:

Indictment

1. Willful Retention of national defense information, Espionage Act - 31 counts

2. Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice

3. Withholding a document or record

4. Corruptly concealing a document

5. Concealing a document in a federal investigation

6. Scheming to conceal

7. False Statements and representations

There is a whole bunch more info...he is cooked, IMO

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lamprey263

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#27  Edited By lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 43937 Posts

Reading the indictment, doesn't look good. His aid/staffer or whatever, Nauta, they coordinated hiding the documents from Trump's own attorney, who went to search Mar-A-Lago June 2nd to do a search, and Nauta moved the boxes to Trump"s residence while they searched the storage room, where they still found documents. That attorney would not sign to response to the DOJ to return the subpoenaed documents and instead they brought another in to sign off of the subpeona.

So, Trump and Nauta basically coordinated hiding documents from his own attorney. Most baffling in DOJ's indictment is mentioning of Trump loading these boxes of classified documents onto his private plane and taking them with him in his travels, and haven't done subsequent searches of his other properties.

Here's a link if you wanna read the whole indictment, and the DOJ his holding a press briefing in about 20 minutes, 3pm eastern time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/09/us/trump-indictment-document-annotated.html

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texasgoldrush

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#28 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14635 Posts

The Feds win 95% of their cases.

Trump is cooked.

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lamprey263

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#29 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 43937 Posts

@texasgoldrush: the venue is Florida, which has become a Mecca for MAGA Karens, and the judge appointed to oversee proceedings is that Aileen Cannon, the Trump appointed judge who appeased Trump's tactics to jam up DOJ with his special masters request, and who the DOJ had to go to a higher court to intervene against her. So, will be interesting, I don't think Trump will get not guilty charges, but I can see a hung jury and a retrial or few.

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#30 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14635 Posts

@lamprey263 said:

@texasgoldrush: the venue is Florida, which has become a Mecca for MAGA Karens, and the judge appointed to oversee proceedings is that Aileen Cannon, the Trump appointed judge who appeased Trump's tactics to jam up DOJ with his special masters request, and who the DOJ had to go to a higher court to intervene against her. So, will be interesting, I don't think Trump will get not guilty charges, but I can see a hung jury and a retrial or few.

The government can file a motion to get rid of Cannon, and voir dire should get rid of the Karens.

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SUD123456

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#31 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6897 Posts

He convicted himself in section 34.

Taped interview with 2 staffers, a writer, and a publisher.

Discusses and waves around a secret document describing a contingency plan to attack a foreign country and explicitly states:

1. It's a secret document, brags about it

2. Shouldn't be sharing it with them

3. Could have declassified it when POTUS, but didn't

4. Can't declassify it now because he isn't POTUS

5. It is still secret.

I laugh. Moron convicts himself with his own words on tape. Zero room for interpretation.

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#32 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20510 Posts

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#33 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17807 Posts

@Master_Live said:

Oof.

He straight up says "This is still secret and I can't declassify now I'm not president. Have a look!"

What a tool.

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#34 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 6585 Posts

@shellcase86 said:
@gifford38 said:

trump will not be stopped this time. Biden is going to f up more of the united states before trump goes in. 2024 can't come fast enough.

Accept the inevitably. Unless sleepy Joe walks by his decision to run again or has a severe health incident, he will have a second term regardless of who the GOP puts up.

well if biden wins expect another civil war.

people have had enough and will over run him. constitution allows us to over run the government.

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texasgoldrush

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#35  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14635 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@Master_Live said:

Oof.

He straight up says "This is still secret and I can't declassify now I'm not president. Have a look!"

What a tool.

He also exposed himself not only to this case but the Georgia one in that CNN Town Hall.

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#36 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 22835 Posts

@gifford38: Show us where.

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#37 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17807 Posts

@gifford38 said:

constitution allows us to over run the government.

You haven't read The Constitution.

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#38 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19422 Posts

The unsealed parts of the Indictment show that Trump was hoarding nuclear defence secrets of the US and other nations. Yikes.

If there's any indication that he sold or leaked that information to foreign powers...I wonder, does the US hang its traitors anymore?

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#39 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178620 Posts

@gifford38 said:

well if biden wins expect another civil war.

people have had enough and will over run him. constitution allows us to over run the government.

No it does not.

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SargentD

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#40 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

Need to liquidate the FBI and DOJ. Too many partisan hacks working for the DNC in these agencies. The weaponization of our agencies against political opposition is destructive to our Republic. You could say it's interference with our elections at this point. It's a slippery slope.

Need to nip this in the Bud. No doubt Trump is sick of this kangaroo court Bullshit. Will vote for him to go Schedule F on all these beauracrats working for the DOJ.

I want Vengeance!! And if I want it I know Trump wants it even 100x more.

Want him to go in and clean this shit up.

Trump 2024

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SargentD

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#41 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

Really tired of this weekend at Bernie's skit with Joe Biden.

It's embarrassing to watch.

The only things Democrats are good at accomplishing:

Higher Crime

Higher Inflation

Higher illegal immigration

Higher Taxes

More War

And calling everyone a racist or homophobe for calling out their failures.

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Serraph105

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#42  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36026 Posts

@sargentd said:

Need to liquidate the FBI and DOJ. Too many partisan hacks working for the DNC in these agencies. The weaponization of our agencies against political opposition is destructive to our Republic. You could say it's interference with our elections at this point. It's a slippery slope.

Need to nip this in the Bud. No doubt Trump is sick of this kangaroo court Bullshit. Will vote for him to go Schedule F on all these beauracrats working for the DOJ.

I want Vengeance!! And if I want it I know Trump wants it even 100x more.

Want him to go in and clean this shit up.

Trump 2024

Loading Video...

You want to get rid of the FBI and Department of Justice, because they are doing their jobs? And that bit about vengeance.....come on man, you don't even sound like a real person anymore. You sound like a tv character who's writer jumped the shark a few seasons ago.

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LJS9502_basic

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#43  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178620 Posts

@sargentd: Grand Jury from the conservative state of Florida dude.

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SargentD

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#44 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: DC Indictment DUUDDDEEE

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SargentD

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#45  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

I'm not the only one who sees this for what it is..

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KathaarianCode

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#46 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3147 Posts

Damn, Anonymous of all people? Then something must be wrong if even Anonymous thinks that. Maybe that screenshot could be used in court as Trump's main defence strategy.

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LJS9502_basic

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#47  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178620 Posts

@sargentd said:

@LJS9502_basic: DC Indictment DUUDDDEEE

Grand Jury in Florida!

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SargentD

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#48  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

@kathaariancode said:

Damn, Anonymous of all people? Then something must be wrong if even Anonymous thinks that. Maybe that screenshot could be used in court as Trump's main defence strategy.

Just letting people know what others or saying. My view is this is the weaponization of our federal agencies (DOJ,FBI) to go after the opposition candidate to the Establishment 👍👍👍👍

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#49 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 54942 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@gifford38 said:

constitution allows us to over run the government.

You haven't read The Constitution.

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#50 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 7135 Posts

"The walls are closing in"

For like the 137473939x time.

I'm tired of this stupid shit, he's running for president.

If you want to beat him in 2024 you'll have to do it with votes, not by using the DOJ to go after him.

Super dangerous precident this is.