Alcoholism: disease or not?

I think it is a condition that acts like a disease. I beleive that some people simply cannot drink in moderation and must abstain completely to live norman lives. Would like to hear anyone's opinion on this.

Like anything in life, it's a choice that gets out of control. There's no gene that tells you to take that first drink.

It's non chemically addicting. It's 100% mental. It's not a disease.

It can be both be a simple weakess and a serious mental addiction.. And it can end up being a disease by becoming a phsyical addiction. ie, your body is dependant on alcohol.ShadowJax04

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]It can be both be a simple weakess and a serious mental addiction.. And it can end up being a disease by becoming a phsyical addiction. ie, your body is dependant on alcohol.Pirate700

Yes you can. Your body gets used to it and starts to rely on it. Withdrawal.. DT's..

It's non chemically addicting. It's 100% mental. It's not a disease.

Pirate700

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]It can be both be a simple weakess and a serious mental addiction.. And it can end up being a disease by becoming a phsyical addiction. ie, your body is dependant on alcohol.Pirate700

I wouldn't call it a disease...

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]It can be both be a simple weakess and a serious mental addiction.. And it can end up being a disease by becoming a phsyical addiction. ie, your body is dependant on alcohol.ShadowJax04

Yes you can. Your body gets used to it and starts to rely on it.

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Your body cannot become dependant on alcohol. :lol:

Yes you can. Your body gets used to it and starts to rely on it.

Like anything in life, it's a choice that gets out of control. There's no gene that tells you to take that first drink.

jubino

And there's no gene telling people to eat wrong. Yet, peoples' poor eating habits can directly lead to such things as diabetes, which is a disease. Diseases do NOT have to be directly caused by one's genes. Diseases can be caused by all kinds of environmental factors. In the case of alcoholism, it is caused by excessive alcohol consumption, which is itself likely largely influenced by genes (your genes cannot make you start drinking, but there's evidence that they can make you more prone to addiction).

The point is that people aren't BORN with alcoholism. They get it after becoming addicted to alcohol. But once you've got it, it IS a disease. And you can still be an alcoholic for the rest of your life, even if you never take another drink.

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Your body cannot become dependant on alcohol. :lol:

Pirate700

Yes you can. Your body gets used to it and starts to rely on it.

[QUOTE="jubino"]

Like anything in life, it's a choice that gets out of control. There's no gene that tells you to take that first drink.

And there's no gene telling people to eat wrong. Yet, peoples' poor eating habits can directly lead to such things as diabetes, which is a disease. Diseases do NOT have to be directly caused by one's genes. Diseases can be caused by all kinds of environmental factors. In the case of alcoholism, it is caused by excessive alcohol consumption, which is itself likely largely influenced by genes (your genes cannot make you start drinking, but there's evidence that they can make you more prone to addiction).

The point is that people aren't BORN with alcoholism. They get it after becoming addicted to alcohol. But once you've got it, it IS a disease. And you can still be an alcoholic for the rest of your life, even if you never take another drink.

Disease:noun, plural: diseases

Anabnormalcondition of anorganismwhich interrupts the normal bodily functions that often leads to feeling ofpainand weakness, and usually associated withsymptomsand signs.

Apathologiccondition in which the normal functioning of an organism or body is impaired or disrupted resulting in extremepain,dysfunction, distress, or death.

Alcoholism:(n)alcoholism,alcohol addiction,inebriation,drunkenness(habitual intoxication; prolonged and excessive intake of alcoholic drinks leading to a breakdown in health and an addiction to alcohol such that abrupt deprivation leads to severe withdrawal symptoms

--

I would say yes but, I am biased as my father is an ("functional") alcoholic.

It's non chemically addicting. It's 100% mental. It's not a disease.

Pirate700

Really? Because when an alcoholic stops drinking, there can be very severe PHYSICAL effects. In rare cases, suddenly ceasing to drink can cause some alcoholics' hearts to stop. It's possible for people to become so physically dependant on alcohol that they DIE if they suddenly stop drinking it.

It's not "100% mental". And even if it were, that doesn't make it NOT a disease. There are people with various mental diseases who are physically fine. But mentally, they're very sick.

I think it is a condition that acts like a disease. I beleive that some people simply cannot drink in moderation and must abstain completely to live norman lives. Would like to hear anyone's opinion on this.

waltw_84

Of course its a disease. A self-inflicted disease, yes, but still a disease.

And yes, I have friends who used to do a lot of alcohol / drugs and now cannot have a single drink (T-total), to have a normal life.

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]It can be both be a simple weakess and a serious mental addiction.. And it can end up being a disease by becoming a phsyical addiction. ie, your body is dependant on alcohol.Pirate700

As I said, it's possible to become so physically dependant on alcohol that you DIE if you don't get it. These are admittedly rare and extreme cases, but there is no question whatsoever that alcohol can cause a very real and SERIOUS physical dependency. Alcohol isn't all fun and giggles, it can be a serious and dangerous drug.

I would say yes but, I am biased as my father is an ("functional") alcoholic.

clayron

"Functional alcoholic" seems more like "alcohol dependence", which is NOT the same as an "alcoholic".

I am "alcohol dependant". I am NOT an "alcoholic". There is a difference.

It's non chemically addicting. It's 100% mental. It's not a disease.

Pirate700

Tell that to the people who die from alcohol withdrawl.

Unlike other drugs, alcohol withdrawl can actually kill you. Hence the reason why alcohol rehab centers give a limited amount of alcohol to recovering addicts.

Anyway, I'd say it's a disease. While the initial choice to drink and keep drinking is a choice, it's a fact that there are biological/genetic factors that predispose you to becoming an alcoholic. I'm not just talking out of my ass here either. I've taken university classes on psychopharmacology, talked with professors about it, and even the lab I work in has been able to develop a strain of rats that naturally consume a ridiculous amount of alcohol. To put that in perspective, normal rats hate alcohol. They won't drink the stuff unless you train them to. The rats we've got though absolutely love booze. So think about that for a second. If you think that alcoholism is a purely mental thing then explain how scientists (not just in my lab, but many others) have been able to create entire rat lines that naturally drink an abnormally large amount of alcohol. Such a result is impossible unless genetic factors are at work.

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]It can be both be a simple weakess and a serious mental addiction.. And it can end up being a disease by becoming a phsyical addiction. ie, your body is dependant on alcohol.Pirate700

:|

You should not laugh when you are wrong. *Warning* Long complex read.

GS wont link so here:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1439093/?page=1

[QUOTE="clayron"]

I would say yes but, I am biased as my father is an ("functional") alcoholic.

MrGeezer

"Functional alcoholic" seems more like "alcohol dependence", which is NOT the same as an "alcoholic".

I am "alcohol dependant". I am NOT an "alcoholic". There is a difference.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

It's non chemically addicting. It's 100% mental. It's not a disease.

MrGeezer

Really? Because when an alcoholic stops drinking, there can be very severe PHYSICAL effects. In rare cases, suddenly ceasing to drink can cause some alcoholics' hearts to stop. It's possible for people to become so physically dependant on alcohol that they DIE if they suddenly stop drinking it.

It's not "100% mental". And even if it were, that doesn't make it NOT a disease. There are people with various mental diseases who are physically fine. But mentally, they're very sick.

You are correct. Alcoholism is both a psychological and physical/chemical dependence on alcohol, not just the former. Alcohol stimulates receptors that direct the relaxation (depression) of the central nervous system. When alcohol use in high quantities is continued over long periods of time, the receptors become desensitized to this and the effect is that the central nervous system begins to normalize with the use of alcohol. Hence, if alcohol consumption is greatly reduced abruptly, it leads to the nervous system being extremely overstimulated.

The main difference between the chemical/physical addiction of alcohol and some other drug like heroin is that abrupt withdrawal of alcohol from an alcoholic can easily prove fatal. Morphine for instance can cause a similar chemical/physical addiction, but because the effect is mainly the desensitization of the effect of natural endorphines in combination with a natural lowering of the body's endorphine production, the results affect mood and pain centers, but don't usually lead to a fatality. An ubrupt withdrawal of alcohol however can easily lead to the central nervous system firing off uncontrollably, leading to seizures and even cardiac arrest.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

It's non chemically addicting. It's 100% mental. It's not a disease.

gameguy6700

Tell that to the people who die from alcohol withdrawl.

Unlike other drugs, alcohol withdrawl can actually kill you. Hence the reason why alcohol rehab centers give a limited amount of alcohol to recovering addicts.

Anyway, I'd say it's a disease. While the initial choice to drink and keep drinking is a choice, it's a fact that there are biological/genetic factors that predispose you to becoming an alcoholic. I'm not just talking out of my ass here either. I've taken university classes on psychopharmacology, talked with professors about it, and even the lab I work in has been able to develop a strain of rats that naturally consume a ridiculous amount of alcohol. To put that in perspective, normal rats hate alcohol. They won't drink the stuff unless you train them to. The rats we've got though absolutely love booze. So think about that for a second. If you think that alcoholism is a purely mental thing then explain how scientists (not just in my lab, but many others) have been able to create entire rat lines that naturally drink an abnormally large amount of alcohol. Such a result is impossible unless genetic factors are at work.

Sadly, far too many diseases get thought of in such a way by the public at large. People tend to think of drunken winos as pieces of trash, when many of them have a very real and debilitating disease. There's a big social stigma against many mental illnesses, as if those people "just chose to be crazy". Just the whole idea that "I can binge drink without becoming an alcoholic, so why can't YOU? I can act normal, so you should also be able to make it through the day without acting crazy".

And the worst thing about it is that culturally it's seen as a good thing to use alcohol. Especially for young people, if you're the dude who doesn't drink, then you're gonna be seen as a weirdo. Massive consumption of alcohol is seen as being all fun and giggles, and then the people who become alcoholics (because of genetic factors) get looked at as scum by the same people who egg their buddies on to get ****faced because they think it'll be fun.

I don't consider addictions diseases.

I don't consider addictions diseases.

gamer_10001

I'm not sure on what the exact definition of disease is, but I'm sure it incorporates more than just what we normally think of as diseases (colds and cancer and whatnot), so it might be. I dunno.

Like anything in life, it's a choice that gets out of control. There's no gene that tells you to take that first drink.

jubino

I think that it's definitely a choice, especially at first. You chose to get into drinking, and you chose to take it too far. I do believe that one can become addicted to it (probably only psychologically though - it's all in you rhead), but it was still a choice in the beginning. I definitely don't think that it's a "disease."t3hrubikscube

My thoughts exactly.

I choose to drink, I choose to not drink too much.

[QUOTE="jubino"]

Like anything in life, it's a choice that gets out of control. There's no gene that tells you to take that first drink.

II_Seraphim_II

Again, that's like saying that diabetes isn't a disease, just because you got it by choosing to eat too much candy.

LOTS of diseases can be seen as someone's "fault". It's a dude's "fault" that he has AIDS because he chose to have unprotected sex with a prostitute. Doesn't mean that AIDS isn't actually a disease.

Alcoholism is both a psychological and physical/chemical dependence on alcohol, not just the former.m0zart

Agreed and if you are a child of an alcoholic/s (or similar or worse conditions) I think odds are higher that you may find yourself to be one some day.

Definitely a disease. Others in this thread have discussed the physical dependence on the substance.

Does anyone ever read the definitions and links? :cry:

[QUOTE="m0zart"]Alcoholism is both a psychological and physical/chemical dependence on alcohol, not just the former.quadraleap

Agreed and if you are a child of an alcoholic/s (or similar or worse conditions) I think odds are higher that you may find yourself to be one some day.

[QUOTE="quadraleap"]

[QUOTE="m0zart"]Alcoholism is both a psychological and physical/chemical dependence on alcohol, not just the former.Amnesiac23

Agreed and if you are a child of an alcoholic/s (or similar or worse conditions) I think odds are higher that you may find yourself to be one some day.

[QUOTE="t3hrubikscube"]I think that it's definitely a choice, especially at first. You chose to get into drinking, and you chose to take it too far. I do believe that one can become addicted to it (probably only psychologically though - it's all in you rhead), but it was still a choice in the beginning. I definitely don't think that it's a "disease."CBR600-RR

My thoughts exactly.

I choose to drink, I choose to not drink too much.

Again, if it's "all in their heads", are you telling me that alcohol addicts are simply IMAGINING it when they die from withdrawal symptoms?

I seriously hope that some people here never take a drink until they learn more about the effects of alcohol, because we're NOT just talking about a simple matter of self-control here. Alcohol is some serious ****, and the people who think that addiction "is all in peoples' heads" are seriously ignorant enough about this stuff that they have no business drinking at all.

Again, if it's "all in their heads", are you telling me that alcohol addicts are simply IMAGINING it when they die from withdrawal symptoms?

I seriously hope that some people here never take a drink until they learn more about the effects of alcohol, because we're NOT just talking about a simple matter of self-control here. Alcohol is some serious ****, and the people who think that addiction "is all in peoples' heads" are seriously ignorant enough about this stuff that they have no business drinking at all.

MrGeezer

I've been drinking for some time now, I'm not addicted, I can stop completely if I wanted. I chose not to drink so much that I become dependant on it.. there is no way I'll become addicted by drinking low amounts, which I'm choosing to.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Again, if it's "all in their heads", are you telling me that alcohol addicts are simply IMAGINING it when they die from withdrawal symptoms?

I seriously hope that some people here never take a drink until they learn more about the effects of alcohol, because we're NOT just talking about a simple matter of self-control here. Alcohol is some serious ****, and the people who think that addiction "is all in peoples' heads" are seriously ignorant enough about this stuff that they have no business drinking at all.

CBR600-RR

I've been drinking for some time now, I'm not addicted, I can stop completely if I wanted. I chose not to drink so much that I become dependant on it.. there is no way I'll become addicted by drinking low amounts, which I'm choosing to.

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Again, if it's "all in their heads", are you telling me that alcohol addicts are simply IMAGINING it when they die from withdrawal symptoms?

I seriously hope that some people here never take a drink until they learn more about the effects of alcohol, because we're NOT just talking about a simple matter of self-control here. Alcohol is some serious ****, and the people who think that addiction "is all in peoples' heads" are seriously ignorant enough about this stuff that they have no business drinking at all.

clayron

I've been drinking for some time now, I'm not addicted, I can stop completely if I wanted. I chose not to drink so much that I become dependant on it.. there is no way I'll become addicted by drinking low amounts, which I'm choosing to.

I know this, that's why I choose not to drink so much.

My father is an alcohalic and as much as I hate that fact, I've struggled with addiction myself. It can be over come though, so I have no sympothy for him. It should never be refered to as a disease in the common sense of the word.Amnesiac23

Mine is too. Hes 82 now and been sober since 1984 or so and I give him allot of credit. I've had my struggles too, but nothing too severe (as far as consqequences anyway) and something I am still working on to totally eliminate from my daily life. More power to you and your quest.

I would tend to call it a condition rather than a disease.

Yes, it most certainly is a disease. The United States needs to start treating drug addiction as a disease like European states do.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/closetohome/science/index.html

http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/understand.html

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="jubino"]

Like anything in life, it's a choice that gets out of control. There's no gene that tells you to take that first drink.

MrGeezer

Again, that's like saying that diabetes isn't a disease, just because you got it by choosing to eat too much candy.

LOTS of diseases can be seen as someone's "fault". It's a dude's "fault" that he has AIDS because he chose to have unprotected sex with a prostitute. Doesn't mean that AIDS isn't actually a disease.

You bring up some very good points, and I guess if you really wanted to you could call it a mental disease, but I fear that we have moved into the age where nothing is anyone's fault anymore. Once you get AIDS you can't just stop having sex and it will go away. Once you have diabetes, you can't just stop eating crappy and it will go away; there is a whole medication regiment. On the other hand, Alcoholism is completely in the hands of the user. If you got your will power up and decided to just stop, your alcoholism will infact go away. If you are a raging alcoholic and lock yourself up in your house for 1 month without alcohol, when you come out, you probably won't have the craving. This is why I say it's your fault. I understand that for some people it's harder and takes more will power, but the fact remains that, that's all it takes, willpower. With that in mind, it's a choice throughout, which is why I don't consider it a disease.

If you are determined enough, you can stop alcoholism at anytime without any medication, but after the initial "choice" with a disease like AIDS, you no longer have a choice. The disease takes it's course without your aid. And even for curable diseases, you no longer have a choice to stop it, unless you take medication. Understand that I'm not going by the dictionary description of "Disease", but in my books, if you are able to stop the ailment at any point without medical assistance, it's not a disease, it's a lack of willpower.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Again, if it's "all in their heads", are you telling me that alcohol addicts are simply IMAGINING it when they die from withdrawal symptoms?

I seriously hope that some people here never take a drink until they learn more about the effects of alcohol, because we're NOT just talking about a simple matter of self-control here. Alcohol is some serious ****, and the people who think that addiction "is all in peoples' heads" are seriously ignorant enough about this stuff that they have no business drinking at all.

CBR600-RR

I've been drinking for some time now, I'm not addicted, I can stop completely if I wanted. I chose not to drink so much that I become dependant on it.. there is no way I'll become addicted by drinking low amounts, which I'm choosing to.

Again, if you're making these kinds of assumptions, it was dangerous and irresponsible for you to ever start drinking in the first place. Drinking excessively is the TRIGGER which causes alcoholism to appear, but it's not likely to happen if you're not already predisposed to it. People do NOT have to "drink a lot" in order to become alcoholics. And people who binge drink often can easily stop on a whim if they are not unlucky enough to be genetically predisposed to alcoholism.

For you to even start drinking without knowing this is like playing Russian Roulette. If YOU aren't one of the ones who develops alcoholism, then all you did was pull the trigger on an empty chamber.

I will post this again. Read It! GS WONT LINK!!! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1439093/?page=1