A Question About Your Eternal Destiny (See Poll).

If I ignore God, isn't it only because he designed me to be apathetic towards divine education? Still God's fault._______1_______

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]I simply wanted to know for sure. You're part of the Athiest Union, or at least promote it in your sig, yet you're saying you should persish? Or do you claim you have the Holy Spirit within you anyway?Genetic_Code

The entire Bible is the inerrant, inspired, preserved, revelation from God of Himself, His interaction with and plan of salvation for His creation with Jesus Christ as the central revelation.

blackregiment

[QUOTE="blackregiment"] You sure have a lot of excuses. _______1_______

That's Ok though, God will not force you to accept eternal salvation. blackregiment

Here maybe this will help you to understand man's fallen state and God's plan of salvation in Christ.

Here is the point that I think many miss. I hope this helps clarify things. God by His nature is good, holy, just, and righteous. He cannot allow sin into His presence for He would not be holy. If He did not punish sin, He would not be just or righteous. We are all sinners and deserving of destruction. No one is good. We are all born with a sin nature.

We are all on a super highway heading for judgment and destruction. We are all on that highway and cannot change that whether we like it or not. God created us and He is in control.God owes us nothing more than what He has given us already. He does not owe us our next breath or heartbeat.God loves us however so He created an exit ramp from this highway to judgment and destruction in Christ who lived a perfect, sinless life, and suffered and died in payment for the sins of those that put their faith and trust in Him.He paid the price for us, the price we deserve to pay. He is the exit ramp of that super highway that we are all on.

God gave us a free will. We can use that free will to stay on the highway to destruction and judgment or choose the exit ramp to eternal life in Christ. The choice is oursGod will not force us onto the exit ramp. He allows us to choose. He will be faithful in giving us the eternity we choose.

It matters not if one thinks God is a dictator. He is the Creator and it is His prerogative to do as He wishes with His creation. Thankfully, God is love and He showed His love for us in that while we were yet sinners, He manifested Himself in Christ, suffered, and died so that we could be saved. There is no greater love than this. God's the price of God's wrath against sin could only be paid by Christ. We are unable to save ourselves. Salvation is available only through Christ. We do not make the rules nor can we change them.

We can complain about it, reject it, or choose to disbelieve but we cannot avoid the consequences of our choice. God will be faithful in respecting our free will choice.

We should all be thankful that God gave us a choice, an exit ramp from that super highway that we are all on until we take the exit ramp in Christ.

One final thing. There are those that ask why Christians share their faith rather than keep it to themselves. There are those on these very threads that complain about Christians sharing their faith,.We share our faith because our Lord and Savior has commanded us to be road signs on the super highway of life, pointing to the exit ramp in Christ.We cannot force anyone onto that exit ramp as some falsely accuse, all we can do is point to the exit ramp. While there are some that choose to ignore the road signs, there are others that do not. God is pleased when even a single soul chooses the exit ramp andHis name is glorified by our presence on that super highway in obedience to His command to spread the Good News of salvation in Christ..

we were made to WorshipShowStopper102

Whoa, there. You're saying God created us just so he would have someone to worship him and follow him? I resent that.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]I am a bit curious to see these verses which say the Holy Spirit does, in fact, indwell the bodies of non-believers.GabuEx

I'll bite. Though it doesn't specifically say those words...

"Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God." (1 John 4:7)

(Note here that loving comes first - if someone loves, then they have been born of God and know God, not the other way around.)

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." (John 14:21)

I perceive the commandment to love God to be much more profound, in my view, than evangelical Christians give it credit for. I would even argue that there is evidence that Jesus' two commandments - love God, and love your neighbor as yourself - are, in fact, intended to be considered synonymous.

for love is of God: to love one another is the command of God, it is his revealed will, and is well pleasing in his sight; it comes from him, is a gift of his grace, and a fruit of his Spirit, and which he teaches regenerate ones to exercise:

and everyone that loveth God, as the Alexandrian copy reads, or Christ, and the saints, who seem to be particularly meant:

is born of God; for love to the brethren is an evidence of regeneration; See Gill on 1Jo_3:14;

and knoweth God; he knows God in Christ, and therefore loves those who have the grace of God in them, and the image of Christ upon them; he knows the mind and will of God, being taught of God to love the brethren; and he knows the love of God, and has had an experience of the grace of God, which influences him to love the saints."
Source, John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible.
As to the second verse, I do not see any evidence to the claim the Holy Spirit lives inside of non-believers given in that verse.

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]we were made to Worshipdog64

Whoa, there. You're saying God created us just so he would have someone to worship him and follow him? I resent that.

To Teenaged: you wrote: "Again how are you certain that what is written in the Bible is the unaltered and unchanged and genuine word of god???????" I'm pretty sure this was you, anyway. Well, for one, the Word of God has never been proven wrong, and there is clear evidence of his work today. "The LORD will keep you from all harm-he will watch over your life" - Psalm 121:7, and indeed He has. "Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows, but take heart, for I have overcome the world." - John 16:33. I have faced trials, I've had sorrows, but God has already come through, and the truth of Jesus overcoming the world and dying on the cross for me still undoubtedly reamins.ShowStopper102

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Frattracide"] Not according to Romans Chapter 9Frattracide

No, our all knowing God knows who will choose to follow Christ. Those that do, He predestinates to be conformed to the image of Christ. Being all knowing and therefore knowing who will accept Christ is not the same as forcing them to accept Him.

Romans 9:18: Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Romans 9:19-21

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:22-24

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

And your point is.....

There is no doubt that God is sovereign. He owes us nothing. He has blessed us in so many ways. He would be perfectly justified to destroy His entire creation right now. Yet He loves us so much that He provided a path to salvation. We should be grateful for that rather that reject it. It always amazes me that there are those that choose to reject God's plan of salvation in Christ and then complain about the consequences of their free will choice.I consider that a contradiction.

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]we were made to Worshipdog64

Whoa, there. You're saying God created us just so he would have someone to worship him and follow him? I resent that.

God created us for His pleasure. Our purpose is to know God, glorify Him, and enjoy Him forever.

And your point is.....

There is no doubt that God is sovereign. He owes us nothing. He has blessed us in so many ways. He would be perfectly justified to destroy His entire creation right now. Yet He loves us so much that He provided a path to salvation. We should be grateful for that rather that reject it. It always amazes me that there are those that choose to reject God's plan of salvation in Christ and then complain about the consequences of their free will choice.I consider that a contradiction.

blackregiment

My point is that Romans Chapter nine says explicitly that god chooses certain people to be prepared for destruction and certain people to be delivered for salvation. The fact that you would ignore your own bible for the sake of your dogma is delicious.

God gave us a free will. We can use that free will to stay on the highway to destruction and judgment or choose the exit ramp to eternal life in Christ. The choice is oursGod will not force us onto the exit ramp. He allows us to choose. He will be faithful in giving us the eternity we choose.

It matters not if one thinks God is a dictator. He is the Creator and it is His prerogative to do as He wishes with His creation. Thankfully, God is love and He showed His love for us in that while we were yet sinners, He manifested Himself in Christ, suffered, and died so that we could be saved. There is no greater love than this. God's the price of God's wrath against sin could only be paid by Christ. We are unable to save ourselves. Salvation is available only through Christ. We do not make the rules nor can we change them.

We can complain about it, reject it, or choose to disbelieve but we cannot avoid the consequences of our choice. God will be faithful in respecting our free will choice.

blackregiment

I explained earlier in this thread that free will is living life as you choose without consequence. Since there is consequence in this case, then it is not free will. It is a test. God is letting you choose to go this way or that way. If you choose the wrong way, you will fail. That is a test, just like when you were doing tests in school. You either gave the right answer or the wrong answer.

In addition, since God is supposed to be a very loving God, I do not accept the basis of "I can do what I want with my creation because I'm God". That is not a loving statement. That would be like your father telling you "I can do what I want with you, because I am your father. I may not feed you or give you shelter if I choose, because I brought you into this world". A loving God, with higher standards than human, should be loving in his decisions.

Another is through the accuracy of fulfilled prophecy. There are dozens and dozens of fulfilled prophecies regarding nations, people, places, and events recorded in the Bible as well as hundreds of prophecies regarding Christ the Messiah. blackregiment

Many of these are simply exaggerations and stretches of the prophecy. Another thing is, any prophecy can easily be fulfilled simply because people could force something to happen to make it look as if the bible is valid. For example, if the bible could say that on Jan. 21, 2009, that I will make a ham sandwich at 12:00 noon. Now, I might not have any intention of making a ham sandwich for lunch tomorrow, but if I was a bible-thumping christian who is trying to validate my beliefs to the rest of the world, I could make that sandwich exactly as stated in the bible, and then claim "Oh see! it happened! I didn't even have any control over it! It was like the spirit was guiding me to fulfill the prophecy!" People will say a load of crap to try and validate their beliefs, no matter how wacky they are.

Another is the power of the Word of God to change lives.blackregiment

Placebo effect.

Still another is the history of the nation of Israel. There is also the vast amount of archeological evidence that confirms people, places, and events recorded in the Bible, as well as the tremendous quantity of manuscript evidence that confirms that accuracy of the teachings of the Bible we have today. There is no other book that has been written the even comes close to the Bible. blackregiment

The fact that a book was written, included characters based upon the actual people around at the time, offers no proof whatsoever that it was written or even inspired by a divine deity. Proof of Earthly artifacts is not even close to being the same thing as proof of God.

The Bible is composed of 66 separate books, written over approximately 1,600 years, by at least 40 distinct authors, from all walks of life, written in three different languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, on three different continents, all in perfect agreement and revealing a consistent message, the path to salvation in Jesus Christ. blackregiment

Anyone can pick a verse out of the Bible and try to discredit it but when one openly and honestly looks at all of the evidence for the truth of the Bible in its entirety, only one that chooses to remain in rebellion to the Lord will reject it. blackregiment

Why so negative? Maybe that one who you think is rebellious is only trying to make sure he's doing the right thing? This is where questioning comes in. It is not necessarily rebellion, and if God can't see that, he is an idiot.

It has been said, even by secular psychologists, that if one studies the Sermon on the Mount, in the 5th, 6th, and 7th chapters of Matthew, the excellence of the wisdom, guidance, and life lessons of the words and teachings of Jesus in just those verses, surpasses the totality of all advice ever written in the history of man by all psychologists and sociologists that ever lived. Many concede that if all the advice ever written by those experts were condensed down, into one document, the wisdom for living in Jesus' teachings would dwarf them in significance. This is overwhelming evidence for the divine inspiration and truth of the Bible as well as the divinity of Christ. blackregiment

Care to post it? I'd like to read it.

God has not revealed His entire plan and everything regarding the natural world to man. Man could not possibly comprehend it with our finite mind. He has revealed what He, as our Creator, wants us to know. blackregiment

What he wants us to know? Ok then, if we don't get it, it really is God's fault! Once again, you've strengthened my argument.

Well I must go. I have enjoyed the discussion. Till later, God bless.blackregiment

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]we were made to Worshipblackregiment

Whoa, there. You're saying God created us just so he would have someone to worship him and follow him? I resent that.

God created us for His pleasure. Our purpose is to know God, glorify Him, and enjoy Him forever.

Well, that is not how I would view a loving father. In relation, why did your parents have you? Why did any parent have any child? So that they would have their own child that would obey them? Hopefully not.

The question is asked by many: Why did God create us in the first plave? If there is a God who created us, I believe he created us simply to pass on the gift of life. God obviously enjoys his life in heaven, so I believe he created us to share the joy. Why else would we have the ability to recognize thousands of different smells and tastes, and be able to see in color? If the sole purpose of life was to be God's "pleasure toys" then why would he do all these things?

We should all be thankful that God gave us a choice, an exit ramp from that super highway that we are all on until we take the exit ramp in Christ. blackregiment

Screw the off-ramp that leads away from the super-highway of destruction...why doesn't he just lift us from the highway, and into his loving arms, if he really cares that much?_______1_______

Because that would affect our "free will". ;)

Maybe some of you will be interested in this website. http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtmlShowStopper102

"clarifyingchristianity"? That would be like a Christian going to an Athiest website.

God loves you. Some think that God isn't fair because He is treating Christians "better." If God treated unbelievers like this, then they wouldnt change! They would remain the same, accepting the blessings. But that's not what God wants!ShowStopper102

Would it not make more sense to care about that change than about the believing, then? What I've argued all along is that that is precisely the case.

[QUOTE="_______1_______"]Screw the off-ramp that leads away from the super-highway of destruction...why doesn't he just lift us from the highway, and into his loving arms, if he really cares that much?dog64

Because that would affect our "free will". ;)

That first verse is speaking of brotherly love (for some reason, what you quoted doesn't have all of the verse). John Gill puts it well:
"1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let its love one another,.... The apostle having finished what he proposed to say concerning the trying of spirits, returns to his former exhortation to brotherly love, and which comes with fresh force and strength; for since worldly men follow, hear, embrace, and cleave to the false teachers; such as are of God, and on the side of truth, should love one another, and their faithful ministers, and stand fast in one spirit by the truths of the Gospel, in opposition to every error:

for love is of God: to love one another is the command of God, it is his revealed will, and is well pleasing in his sight; it comes from him, is a gift of his grace, and a fruit of his Spirit, and which he teaches regenerate ones to exercise:

and everyone that loveth God, as the Alexandrian copy reads, or Christ, and the saints, who seem to be particularly meant:

is born of God; for love to the brethren is an evidence of regeneration; See Gill on 1Jo_3:14;

and knoweth God; he knows God in Christ, and therefore loves those who have the grace of God in them, and the image of Christ upon them; he knows the mind and will of God, being taught of God to love the brethren; and he knows the love of God, and has had an experience of the grace of God, which influences him to love the saints."
Source, John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible.
As to the second verse, I do not see any evidence to the claim the Holy Spirit lives inside of non-believers given in that verse.

Crushmaster

Of course the verse is speaking of brotherly love. That's precisely my point.

However, your reading that "everyone that loveth" is refering to love of God is - no offense - just not supported by the text at all. Here is a more broader context of the verse:

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. .... Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." (1 John 4:7,11-12) (emphasis mine)

I see no room for misinterpretation here, unless you are saying that the speaker first talks about brotherly love and then randomly starts talking about love of God with no prior introduction of that change of topic. The speaker then goes on to say with no uncertainty that God lives in us if we love one another. I don't mean to offend, but you seem to be reading into this what you already thought to be the case instead of reading the bare text of what it says.

As for the second verse, Jesus says that he will show himself to anyone who keeps his commandments.

By the way, Crushmaster, I just found out that you copied and pasted that response verbatim from here. This would not be the first time that a passage written by a human has just been copied and pasted as a response in this thread. Honest question: have you actually read the Bible without carrying human annotations alongside it the entire time? It seems to me that the Bible would be a more authoritative source for what the Bible says than men. You are effectively trusting that that person's writings are divinely inspired like the Bible - if not, they could well be in error or even just made up.

I just looked through some things in that website and the guy writes entire paragraphs for single phrases that say things that are just flat-out not found anywhere in the actual text. Does he have any actual evidence for these long passages of things he injects into the Bible, or is this Man playing editor after God has finished his Word? Tons of times he'll cite a phrase that uses words like "all" in a completely unqualified manner and will be like "oh but that doesn't really mean 'all', it actually means only those people who conveniently mesh with what I want this verse to say!" - and all this without a single citation or supporting piece of evidence: it's presented just by his say-so, and people are expected to believe it.

And I'm the one who gets accused of reading into the Bible what isn't there...

By the way, Crushmaster, I just found out that you copied and pasted that response verbatim from here. Do you actually do research yourself, or do you just trust the words of men? It seems to me that the Bible would be a more authoritative source for what the Bible says than men.

I just looked through some things in that website and the guy writes entire paragraphs for single phrases that say things that are just flat-out not found anywhere in the actual text. Does he have any actual evidence for these long passages of things he injects into the Bible, or is this Man playing editor after God has finished his Word? Tons of times he'll cite a phrase that uses words like "all" in a completely unqualified manner and will be like "oh but that doesn't really mean 'all', it actually means only those people who conveniently mesh with what I want this verse to say!" - and all this without a single citation or supporting piece of evidence: it's presented just by his say-so, and people are expected to believe it.

And I'm the one who gets accused of reading into the Bible what isn't there...

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

And your point is.....

There is no doubt that God is sovereign. He owes us nothing. He has blessed us in so many ways. He would be perfectly justified to destroy His entire creation right now. Yet He loves us so much that He provided a path to salvation. We should be grateful for that rather that reject it. It always amazes me that there are those that choose to reject God's plan of salvation in Christ and then complain about the consequences of their free will choice.I consider that a contradiction.

Frattracide

My point is that Romans Chapter nine says explicitly that god chooses certain people to be prepared for destruction and certain people to be delivered for salvation. The fact that you would ignore your own bible for the sake of your dogma is delicious.

I cannot be held responsible if one, without Christ, has difficulty in understanding the Bible's teaching. God has told us that without Christ, one is without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot understand the spiritual things of God. God does choose people that He knows will respond to His call but God never chooses anyone to be eternally lost. We do that ourselves when we reject Christ.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Here is something that might help to explain the sections of Romans that you mentioned.

"In Romans Chapter 9-11 we hear Paul's answer to the Jewish objector who asks: Does the gospel, by promising salvation to Gentiles as well as Jews, mean that God has broken His promises to His earthly people, the Jews? Paul's answer covers Israel's past (chapter 9), its present (chapter 10), and its future (chapter 11).

Romans Chapter 9-11 contains a great emphasis on divine sovereignty and human responsibility. Romans 9 is one of the key passages in the Bible on the sovereign election of God. Romans 10 sets forth the balancing truth, the responsibility of man to God's call.

When we say that God is sovereign, we mean that He is in charge of the universe and that He can do as He pleases. In saying that, however, we know that, because He is God, He will never do anything wrong, unjust, or unrighteous. Therefore, to say that God is sovereign is merely to allow God to be God.

In His sovereignty, God has elected or chosen certain individuals to belong to Himself. But the same Bible that teaches God's sovereign election also teaches human responsibility. While it is true that God elects people to salvation, it is also true they must choose to be saved by a definite act of the will.

D. L. Moody illustrated the two truths this way: When we come to the door of salvation, we see the invitation overhead, "Whosoever will may come." When we pass through, we look back and see the words "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God" above the door. Thus the truth of man's responsibility faces people as they come to the door of salvation. The truth of sovereign election is a family truth for those who have already entered.

How can God choose individuals to belong to Himself and at the same time make a bona fide offer of salvation to all people everywhere? How can we reconcile these two truths? The fact is that we cannot. To the human mind they are in conflict. But the Bible teaches both doctrines, and so we should believe them, content to know that the difficulty lies in our minds and not in God's.

Although God chooses some men to be saved, He never chooses anyone to be damned. To put it another way, though the Bible teaches election, it never teaches divine reprobation. But someone may object, "If God elects some to blessing, then He necessarily elects others to destruction." But that is not true! The whole human race was doomed to destruction by its own sin and not by any arbitrary decree of God. If God allowed everyone to go to hell—and He could justly have done that—people would be getting exactly what they deserved. The question is, "Does the sovereign Lord have a right to stoop down and select a handful of otherwise-doomed people to be a bride for His Son?" The answer, of course, is that He does. So what it boils down to is this: if people are lost, it is because of their own sin and rebellion; if people are saved, it is because of the sovereign, electing grace of God." Source Bible Believers Commentary.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Another is through the accuracy of fulfilled prophecy. There are dozens and dozens of fulfilled prophecies regarding nations, people, places, and events recorded in the Bible as well as hundreds of prophecies regarding Christ the Messiah. _______1_______

Many of these are simply exaggerations and stretches of the prophecy. Another thing is, any prophecy can easily be fulfilled simply because people could force something to happen to make it look as if the bible is valid. For example, if the bible could say that on Jan. 21, 2009, that I will make a ham sandwich at 12:00 noon. Now, I might not have any intention of making a ham sandwich for lunch tomorrow, but if I was a bible-thumping christian who is trying to validate my beliefs to the rest of the world, I could make that sandwich exactly as stated in the bible, and then claim "Oh see! it happened! I didn't even have any control over it! It was like the spirit was guiding me to fulfill the prophecy!" People will say a load of crap to try and validate their beliefs, no matter how wacky they are.

Another is the power of the Word of God to change lives.blackregiment

Placebo effect.

Still another is the history of the nation of Israel. There is also the vast amount of archeological evidence that confirms people, places, and events recorded in the Bible, as well as the tremendous quantity of manuscript evidence that confirms that accuracy of the teachings of the Bible we have today. There is no other book that has been written the even comes close to the Bible. blackregiment

The fact that a book was written, included characters based upon the actual people around at the time, offers no proof whatsoever that it was written or even inspired by a divine deity. Proof of Earthly artifacts is not even close to being the same thing as proof of God.

The Bible is composed of 66 separate books, written over approximately 1,600 years, by at least 40 distinct authors, from all walks of life, written in three different languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, on three different continents, all in perfect agreement and revealing a consistent message, the path to salvation in Jesus Christ. blackregiment

Anyone can pick a verse out of the Bible and try to discredit it but when one openly and honestly looks at all of the evidence for the truth of the Bible in its entirety, only one that chooses to remain in rebellion to the Lord will reject it. blackregiment

Why so negative? Maybe that one who you think is rebellious is only trying to make sure he's doing the right thing? This is where questioning comes in. It is not necessarily rebellion, and if God can't see that, he is an idiot.

It has been said, even by secular psychologists, that if one studies the Sermon on the Mount, in the 5th, 6th, and 7th chapters of Matthew, the excellence of the wisdom, guidance, and life lessons of the words and teachings of Jesus in just those verses, surpasses the totality of all advice ever written in the history of man by all psychologists and sociologists that ever lived. Many concede that if all the advice ever written by those experts were condensed down, into one document, the wisdom for living in Jesus' teachings would dwarf them in significance. This is overwhelming evidence for the divine inspiration and truth of the Bible as well as the divinity of Christ. blackregiment

Care to post it? I'd like to read it.

God has not revealed His entire plan and everything regarding the natural world to man. Man could not possibly comprehend it with our finite mind. He has revealed what He, as our Creator, wants us to know. blackregiment

What he wants us to know? Ok then, if we don't get it, it really is God's fault! Once again, you've strengthened my argument.

Thank you, as you have supplied yet more confirmation for a theory I have. Your entire response, offering you opinons on why you feel Christianity in not the truth is so revealing and confirms something I have observed over the years. Often non-believers ask for evidence. When one attempts to comply with this request, rather than seriously consider it, the requestor simply immediatey rejects it in its entirity and offers their opinions on every bit of evidence as to why it is not evidence while failing to support their opinion with any evidence of their own that supports their opinion. Here is something I wrte on another thread that explains this theory.

God has revealed Himself in His creation, in His providence, in His Word, in Jesus Christ, in our conscience, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change the lives of those that put their faith in Christ.

The evidence bounds, one just has to want to look for it. Therein lies the problem for many non-believers, they choose to refuse to look.One confirmation for this is the response from non-believers to any evidence supplied.With virtual 100% certainty, when one presents a non-believer with any evidence whatsoever, the vast majority of non-believers immediately discount it, refuse to consider it, and immediately begin to attempt to discredit it.I can honestly say that in years of debates with non-believers I can count on my fingers, and I am not sure I would even need to go past a digit or two on one hand, the number of times a non-believer has responded with even the slightest acknowledgement that an evidence presented was even in the slightest way compelling.On the other hand, they are quick to accept as truth the unproven fact that the universe, all matter, energy, space and time, created itself from a singularity that occupied no dimension in space since space did not eve exist. They are quick to accept the "truth" that black holes exist based on mathematical formulas and observations of their alleged effect on their surroundings because science sys they exist. Or they are quick to accept that all that exists is the natural world because science has proclaimed that. And they are quick to believe that life formed from non-living chemical by chance.The amazing thing is that for anything in this world, for example, in a criminal trial, there exists evidence of guilt and evidence of innocence that is considered by the jury in reaching their decision. Yet in the minds of many non-believers, any evidence for the existence of God is in never acknowledged as a even a remote possibility worthy of consideration.

I find this very compelling evidence that the majority of non-believers are not openly searching for the truth, but rather are attempting to just comfort themselves by justifying their non-belief.

Our words are the fossils of our the true intent of our hearts.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]We should all be thankful that God gave us a choice, an exit ramp from that super highway that we are all on until we take the exit ramp in Christ. _______1_______

Your whole argument is a contradiction. You seem to want God to remove our free will so we cannot sin yet you also seem to want a free will to reject God and ignore His commands. You appear to want your cake and eat it to. You want God to allow us to live in sin and disobedience and then absolve us of the consequences of that sin and disobeidience. God would not be holy and just if he did that.

[QUOTE="ShowStopper102"]God loves you. Some think that God isn't fair because He is treating Christians "better." If God treated unbelievers like this, then they wouldnt change! They would remain the same, accepting the blessings. But that's not what God wants!GabuEx

Would it not make more sense to care about that change than about the believing, then? What I've argued all along is that that is precisely the case.