It brings tears of joy to my eyes

...to see that Wind Waker has a 1 point (should be tenfold) lead in Metacritic score tables compared to Twilight Princess.

Have you people no shame? Have you no respect of plot and dialogue? And who was the wise guy that decided to strip Ganondorf of a personality?

Man, people are rating Twilight Princess so high just because they had been expecting a realistic looking Zelda so long. That title offers nothing new to the series. Just a remake of Ocarina of Time with widely improved graphics, lol.

OK. Am I traveling in time? Because these kinds of threads had been made like in 2006. I enjoyed Twilight Princess and that's matters. chris3116

In 2006 TP had a 98% average score. :|

I thought Twilight Princess was amazing

I'm sorry to hear you didn't? :|

wind waker was great dont get me wrong, and i really liked its artistic graphic style. But i felt it was too short, too easy, had a weaker plot than other Zelda's, too much sailing around and Ganondorf didnt transform into Ganon :|

Twilight Princess was longer, had a better game world in my opionoin and i liked the combat inovations (learning extra moves/attacks) They are both amazing games, but i personally preferd Zelda Twilight Princess over The Wind Waker.

Windwaker was awesome because Nintendo took a gamble and it payed off. TP was a fantastic game but to me it felt like OoT with a face-lift.

My favorite Zelda of all time is Majora's Mask but opinions, opinions...

I will admit that Windwaker was an enjoyable game. Clearly, the good outweighed the bad. The controls were amazing and innovative for its time, making Twighlight Princess' control scheme nothing special. However, Windwaker's major flaw, by far, was the time spent on that atrocious ocean! 75% of the game was traveling around, having to constantly redirect the wind. Any game where you have to change the channel while playing a game because you're too bored, having to wait to reach your destination, can't be praised too highly. Even when you had the abillity to teleport, they only let you teleport to 20% of the squares on the map, which meant that you still had to constantly change the wind and wait. Any completionist that doesn't like cheating and using FAQs the first time around will tell you how annoying it can be to find and search for anything.

(In case you haven't played the game, this paragraph holds some spoilers.) Another major flaw of the game was the story. It was just way too predictable. Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess? Not to mention the ending of the game! The ENTIRE game ended up being completely useless, because victory wasn't even held by Link beating Ganandorf! The ghost king ends up saving everyone! You might as well have just went straight to Ganandorf and given him your piece of triforce, so that you could get knocked on your butt and the king could grab it before Ganondorf grabbed it anyway!

I know Zelda isn't played for its story, but when they just stop trying, it gets annoying. At least in Twiglight Princess, they had something somewhat innovative and different from the other Zeldas. The Triforce wasn't even mentioned throughout the entire game. Obviously, I don't have to go into how amazing the graphics and world was. Even though graphics shouldn't be the defining trait of any game, it certainly added to the epic feel of the game. It was also a much darker kind of Zelda, not just with the graphics (In the first cut scene, you have an enemy smashing away a child!). The storytelling was amazing, even if the storyline itself wasn't (the throwing in of Ganandorf at the end was kind of lame, admittedly, but I'd have been peeved if he wasn't in it at all). Twighlight Princess was more of an epic adventure akin to what Zelda should be, with no tedious and tiresome qualities like Windwaker.

I will admit that Windwaker was an enjoyable game. Clearly, the good outweighed the bad. The controls were amazing and innovative for its time, making Twighlight Princess' control scheme nothing special. However, Windwaker's major flaw, by far, was the time spent on that atrocious ocean! 75% of the game was traveling around, having to constantly redirect the wind. Any game where you have to change the channel while playing a game because you're too bored, having to wait to reach your destination, can't be praised too highly. Even when you had the abillity to teleport, they only let you teleport to 20% of the squares on the map, which meant that you still had to constantly change the wind and wait. Any completionist that doesn't like cheating and using FAQs the first time around will tell you how annoying it can be to find and search for anything.

(In case you haven't played the game, this paragraph holds some spoilers.) Another major flaw of the game was the story. It was just way too predictable. Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess? Not to mention the ending of the game! The ENTIRE game ended up being completely useless, because victory wasn't even held by Link beating Ganandorf! The ghost king ends up saving everyone! You might as well have just went straight to Ganandorf and given him your piece of triforce, so that you could get knocked on your butt and the king could grab it before Ganondorf grabbed it anyway!

I know Zelda isn't played for its story, but when they just stop trying, it gets annoying. At least in Twiglight Princess, they had something somewhat innovative and different from the other Zeldas. The Triforce wasn't even mentioned throughout the entire game. Obviously, I don't have to go into how amazing the graphics and world was. Even though graphics shouldn't be the defining trait of any game, it certainly added to the epic feel of the game. It was also a much darker kind of Zelda, not just with the graphics (In the first cut scene, you have an enemy smashing away a child!). The storytelling was amazing, even if the storyline itself wasn't (the throwing in of Ganandorf at the end was kind of lame, admittedly, but I'd have been peeved if he wasn't in it at all). Twighlight Princess was more of an epic adventure akin to what Zelda should be, with no tedious and tiresome qualities like Windwaker.

gdorf101

(In case you haven't played the game, this paragraph holds some spoilers.) Another major flaw of the game was the story. It was just way too predictable. Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess? Not to mention the ending of the game! The ENTIRE game ended up being completely useless, because victory wasn't even held by Link beating Ganandorf! The ghost king ends up saving everyone! You might as well have just went straight to Ganandorf and given him your piece of triforce, so that you could get knocked on your butt and the king could grab it before Ganondorf grabbed it anyway!

gdorf101

You're saying that sticking the Master Sword through the skull of Ganondorf turning him into stone (still leaving the sword through his head) was unsatisfying?!

[QUOTE="gdorf101"]

(In case you haven't played the game, this paragraph holds some spoilers.) Another major flaw of the game was the story. It was just way too predictable. Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess? Not to mention the ending of the game! The ENTIRE game ended up being completely useless, because victory wasn't even held by Link beating Ganandorf! The ghost king ends up saving everyone! You might as well have just went straight to Ganandorf and given him your piece of triforce, so that you could get knocked on your butt and the king could grab it before Ganondorf grabbed it anyway!

wiifan001

You're saying that sticking the Master Sword through the skull of Ganondorf turning him into stone (still leaving the sword through his head) was unsatisfying?!

That was one of the most memorable Zelda moments...EVER!

I've yet to play Twilight Princess. I'm waiting for the price to drop.CheeChee_Macko

On a 1st party game? Good luck.

You are better off coughing up the money for it. It's worth it.

...Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess?gdorf101

[QUOTE="CheeChee_Macko"]I've yet to play Twilight Princess. I'm waiting for the price to drop.Boba_Fett_3710

On a 1st party game? Good luck.

You are better off coughing up the money for it. It's worth it.

The GameCube version was featured as a daily deal on Amazon.com a week or so back for $19.99 and now the price has been set to only $25.99. I also got Metroid Prime 3 for $29.99 as part of one of their Lightning Deals, so I may not have to be so lucky to get it for a low price.

Man, people are rating Twilight Princess so high just because they had been expecting a realistic looking Zelda so long. That title offers nothing new to the series. Just a remake of Ocarina of Time with widely improved graphics, lol. Heinous-Uranus

I thought Twilight Princess was amazing

I'm sorry to hear you didn't? :|

Erebyssial

Same here. The hate toward Twilight Princess seems to grow stronger and stronger all the time. I honestly don't understand it. It was and still is an incredible game. What exactly did people want out of the game?

When it comes down to it, every Zelda game since A Link to the Past has had the same gameplay elements, although each have an element of thier own. Ocarina of Time had, well, the ocarina as well as time travel. Majora's Mask had time travel as well as changing forms. Wind Waker had sailing. Minish Cap had shrinking. Phantom Hourglass had, okay, sailing and time manipulation again (but lets not complain about that). Twilight Princess had Wolf form.

Each of those game make you go out from dungeon to dungeon to solve puzzles and fight big creatures. There are side quests that'll help you along the way. Then you go out and gather hearts pieces and rupees, collect items that will bring you to another point in the game which will lead to a final battle.

Every Zelda game is this way, why pick on Twilight Princess?

"Twilight Princess is too much like Ocarina of Time." Oh really? Even if that were so, why is that a bad thing? I personally don't think it's true. "Oh, but there are Gorons and Zora's." So? They're a part of the Zelda universe, and have been for a long time. Zora's have been around since ALttP. "Yeah, but Epona...." Would you rather walk? Oh, and gee, you can battle and attack enemies while riding her, that hasn't been done before. "But the Dark World, it's been done before." Not like this. Instead of a pink bunny, you're a kick ass wolf with abilities never even touched in any of the other games. "But, but..." Just stop.

Twilight Princess is a great game, and nowhere near deserves the crap it gets from so many of you. Show it some bloody respect.

Awesome! I loved WW. Though searching for the triforce peices was one of the most annoying parts of any Zelda game to date.

Twilight Princess is a great game, and nowhere near deserves the crap it gets from so many of you. Show it some bloody respect.

I will admit that Windwaker was an enjoyable game. Clearly, the good outweighed the bad. The controls were amazing and innovative for its time, making Twighlight Princess' control scheme nothing special. However, Windwaker's major flaw, by far, was the time spent on that atrocious ocean! 75% of the game was traveling around, having to constantly redirect the wind. Any game where you have to change the channel while playing a game because you're too bored, having to wait to reach your destination, can't be praised too highly. Even when you had the abillity to teleport, they only let you teleport to 20% of the squares on the map, which meant that you still had to constantly change the wind and wait. Any completionist that doesn't like cheating and using FAQs the first time around will tell you how annoying it can be to find and search for anything.

(In case you haven't played the game, this paragraph holds some spoilers.) Another major flaw of the game was the story. It was just way too predictable. Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess? Not to mention the ending of the game! The ENTIRE game ended up being completely useless, because victory wasn't even held by Link beating Ganandorf! The ghost king ends up saving everyone! You might as well have just went straight to Ganandorf and given him your piece of triforce, so that you could get knocked on your butt and the king could grab it before Ganondorf grabbed it anyway!

I know Zelda isn't played for its story, but when they just stop trying, it gets annoying. At least in Twiglight Princess, they had something somewhat innovative and different from the other Zeldas. The Triforce wasn't even mentioned throughout the entire game. Obviously, I don't have to go into how amazing the graphics and world was. Even though graphics shouldn't be the defining trait of any game, it certainly added to the epic feel of the game. It was also a much darker kind of Zelda, not just with the graphics (In the first cut scene, you have an enemy smashing away a child!). The storytelling was amazing, even if the storyline itself wasn't (the throwing in of Ganandorf at the end was kind of lame, admittedly, but I'd have been peeved if he wasn't in it at all). Twighlight Princess was more of an epic adventure akin to what Zelda should be, with no tedious and tiresome qualities like Windwaker.

gdorf101

i kinda liked the ocean, gave the game some scale and an epic feeling to it.

however, i dont really think i can put one ontop of the other. i liked 'em both

[QUOTE="gdorf101"]...Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess?Cesar_Barba

uh, right, Tetra. my bad, hahahah. Clearly, she did not leave a memorable impression. Guess it's been too long since I played that game.

1.Every Zelda game is this way, why pick on Twilight Princess?

2. "Twilight Princess is too much like Ocarina of Time." Oh really? Even if that were so, why is that a bad thing? I personally don't think it's true. "Oh, but there are Gorons and Zora's." So? They're a part of the Zelda universe, and have been for a long time. Zora's have been around since ALttP. "Yeah, but Epona...." Would you rather walk? Oh, and gee, you can battle and attack enemies while riding her, that hasn't been done before. "But the Dark World, it's been done before." Not like this. Instead of a pink bunny, you're a kick ass wolf with abilities never even touched in any of the other games. "But, but..." Just stop.

ozzsoad

1. If we pick on TP, it's certainly because there is something about it. Consider that almost no one was dissing TP or avoiding the hype before launch (= before actually playing it), and this talk started only after it. No one wanted to bash it, but after the actual game was released, it started. There has to be something, don't act as if we are just dumb and blind.

2. There you go, everyone who loves TP loves it because it's similar to OoT, yet they deny it and try no matter what to prove TP is original. In other words, you're just admitting a Zelda needs to be original. If TP was original, no one would need to get through the trouble of proving it.

[QUOTE="gdorf101"]

I will admit that Windwaker was an enjoyable game. Clearly, the good outweighed the bad. The controls were amazing and innovative for its time, making Twighlight Princess' control scheme nothing special. However, Windwaker's major flaw, by far, was the time spent on that atrocious ocean! 75% of the game was traveling around, having to constantly redirect the wind. Any game where you have to change the channel while playing a game because you're too bored, having to wait to reach your destination, can't be praised too highly. Even when you had the abillity to teleport, they only let you teleport to 20% of the squares on the map, which meant that you still had to constantly change the wind and wait. Any completionist that doesn't like cheating and using FAQs the first time around will tell you how annoying it can be to find and search for anything.

(In case you haven't played the game, this paragraph holds some spoilers.) Another major flaw of the game was the story. It was just way too predictable. Honestly, who didn't suspect Tess? Not to mention the ending of the game! The ENTIRE game ended up being completely useless, because victory wasn't even held by Link beating Ganandorf! The ghost king ends up saving everyone! You might as well have just went straight to Ganandorf and given him your piece of triforce, so that you could get knocked on your butt and the king could grab it before Ganondorf grabbed it anyway!

I know Zelda isn't played for its story, but when they just stop trying, it gets annoying. At least in Twiglight Princess, they had something somewhat innovative and different from the other Zeldas. The Triforce wasn't even mentioned throughout the entire game. Obviously, I don't have to go into how amazing the graphics and world was. Even though graphics shouldn't be the defining trait of any game, it certainly added to the epic feel of the game. It was also a much darker kind of Zelda, not just with the graphics (In the first cut scene, you have an enemy smashing away a child!). The storytelling was amazing, even if the storyline itself wasn't (the throwing in of Ganandorf at the end was kind of lame, admittedly, but I'd have been peeved if he wasn't in it at all). Twighlight Princess was more of an epic adventure akin to what Zelda should be, with no tedious and tiresome qualities like Windwaker.

mrjam0

i kinda liked the ocean, gave the game some scale and an epic feeling to it.

however, i dont really think i can put one ontop of the other. i liked 'em both

The only reason they put in a massive ocean was because people complained that Ocarina of Time had too small of a world. So what was Nintendo's solution? Make you have to travel for hours on end to reach any destination! Even if it ends up being the wrong one by mistake! Yea! That should give them less to b**** about! :P

I hated the ocean. Sorry. hahah. Otherwise, it would have been a near flawless game (minus the ending).

[QUOTE="ozzsoad"]

1.Every Zelda game is this way, why pick on Twilight Princess?

2. "Twilight Princess is too much like Ocarina of Time." Oh really? Even if that were so, why is that a bad thing? I personally don't think it's true. "Oh, but there are Gorons and Zora's." So? They're a part of the Zelda universe, and have been for a long time. Zora's have been around since ALttP. "Yeah, but Epona...." Would you rather walk? Oh, and gee, you can battle and attack enemies while riding her, that hasn't been done before. "But the Dark World, it's been done before." Not like this. Instead of a pink bunny, you're a kick ass wolf with abilities never even touched in any of the other games. "But, but..." Just stop.

Wintry_Flutist

1. If we pick on TP, it's certainly because there is something about it. Consider that almost no one was dissing TP or avoiding the hype before launch (= before actually playing it), and this talk started only after it. No one wanted to bash it, but after the actual game was released, it started. There has to be something, don't act as if we are just dumb and blind.

2. There you go, everyone who loves TP loves it because it's similar to OoT, yet they deny it and try no matter what to prove TP is original. In other words, you're just admitting a Zelda needs to be original. If TP was original, no one would need to get through the trouble of proving it.

There are a lot of reasons that people pick on TP. For one, it was released on a next gen system, so people's expectations were probably even higher than their already too-high expectations. I say that they were already too high, because there was massive hype for the game, and, especially after WW, people were expecting something fresh, new, and innovative. However, the game wasn't originally meant for a next gen system, so that expectation was flawed. And as for new and innovative? Well, let me just say that uniqueness does not a good game make. Just because WW had an incredible control scheme that TP didn't really improve on that much, doesn't mean that WW was a better game. If you gave both games to a neutral gamer that had never played or heard of either's hype, that would be the true test. I contend that such a player would choose TP over WW, because of all of the reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't enjoy TP because it was like OoT. Frankly, I didn't find OoT to be all that great... (let the stoning begin). I didn't find many similarities to OoT. Although OoT had dark settings and atmospheres, it still wasn't really as mature or epic as TP, because TP capitalized on those settings and put more depth to the story. It had the feeling of doom being brought upon towns and civilizations, with children actually in danger and all. Not just having people happy, living their lives, while monsters are all around destroying the world. It also gave impressions that the enemies had lives and weren't mindless monsters, and made Link's adventure more of a quest than a hack and slash through armies and puzzles.

There were a lot of reasons why TP was great. However, with all of the hype, it wasn't as enjoyed as it should have been, and was far more open to scrutiny. If you expect filet mignon and get a rib eye, it's going to affect your taste.

There are a lot of reasons that people pick on TP. For one, it was released on a next gen system, so people's expectations were probably even higher than their already too-high expectations. I say that they were already too high, because there was massive hype for the game, and, especially after WW, people were expecting something fresh, new, and innovative. However, the game wasn't originally meant for a next gen system, so that expectation was flawed. And as for new and innovative? Well, let me just say that uniqueness does not a good game make. Just because WW had an incredible control scheme that TP didn't really improve on that much, doesn't mean that WW was a better game. If you gave both games to a neutral gamer that had never played or heard of either's hype, that would be the true test. I contend that such a player would choose TP over WW, because of all of the reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't enjoy TP because it was like OoT. Frankly, I didn't find OoT to be all that great... (let the stoning begin). I didn't find many similarities to OoT. Although OoT had dark settings and atmospheres, it still wasn't really as mature or epic as TP, because TP capitalized on those settings and put more depth to the story. It had the feeling of doom being brought upon towns and civilizations, with children actually in danger and all. Not just having people happy, living their lives, while monsters are all around destroying the world. It also gave impressions that the enemies had lives and weren't mindless monsters, and made Link's adventure more of a quest than a hack and slash through armies and puzzles.

There were a lot of reasons why TP was great. However, with all of the hype, it wasn't as enjoyed as it should have been, and was far more open to scrutiny. If you expect filet mignon and get a rib eye, it's going to affect your taste.

gdorf101

I can only say you are easily impressed. Good for you, you'll enjoy a lot more things than me, but frankly, Harry Potter delivers more feeling of doom than TP and those weird kids.

[QUOTE="ozzsoad"]

1.Every Zelda game is this way, why pick on Twilight Princess?

2. "Twilight Princess is too much like Ocarina of Time." Oh really? Even if that were so, why is that a bad thing? I personally don't think it's true. "Oh, but there are Gorons and Zora's." So? They're a part of the Zelda universe, and have been for a long time. Zora's have been around since ALttP. "Yeah, but Epona...." Would you rather walk? Oh, and gee, you can battle and attack enemies while riding her, that hasn't been done before. "But the Dark World, it's been done before." Not like this. Instead of a pink bunny, you're a kick ass wolf with abilities never even touched in any of the other games. "But, but..." Just stop.

Wintry_Flutist

1. If we pick on TP, it's certainly because there is something about it. Consider that almost no one was dissing TP or avoiding the hype before launch (= before actually playing it), and this talk started only after it. No one wanted to bash it, but after the actual game was released, it started. There has to be something, don't act as if we are just dumb and blind.

2. There you go, everyone who loves TP loves it because it's similar to OoT, yet they deny it and try no matter what to prove TP is original. In other words, you're just admitting a Zelda needs to be original. If TP was original, no one would need to get through the trouble of proving it.

Originality went out the door a long time ago when it comes to the structure of these games. A Zelda game is a Zelda game. We've been doing the same things, collecting the same items, solving the same puzzles, fighting the same kind of enemies for about 17 years now, since ALttP changed the series forever. When it comes to originality, not even Ocarina of Time is safe. The backbone of this series has been the same ever since.

What makes Twilight Princess so different? How is it any less original than any entry in the series? Look at Wind Waker, if it weren't for the cartoony cell shading and the sailing, how much different would it be from any other Zelda game?

[QUOTE="ozzsoad"]

1.Every Zelda game is this way, why pick on Twilight Princess?

2. "Twilight Princess is too much like Ocarina of Time." Oh really? Even if that were so, why is that a bad thing? I personally don't think it's true. "Oh, but there are Gorons and Zora's." So? They're a part of the Zelda universe, and have been for a long time. Zora's have been around since ALttP. "Yeah, but Epona...." Would you rather walk? Oh, and gee, you can battle and attack enemies while riding her, that hasn't been done before. "But the Dark World, it's been done before." Not like this. Instead of a pink bunny, you're a kick ass wolf with abilities never even touched in any of the other games. "But, but..." Just stop.

Wintry_Flutist

1. If we pick on TP, it's certainly because there is something about it. Consider that almost no onewas dissing TP or avoiding the hype before launch (= before actually playing it), and this talk started only after it. No one wanted to bash it, but after the actual game was released, it started. There has to be something, don't act as if we are just dumb and blind.

2. There you go, everyone who loves TP loves it because it's similar to OoT, yet they deny it and try no matter what to prove TP is original. In other words, you're just admitting a Zelda needs to be original. If TP was original, no one would need to get through the trouble of proving it.

Here's what I think happened (flashback) Wind Waker is released, the majority of people, at the time, raise up their voices in shouts of "We, hate this game give us something more like OoT." now, let us fast forward ahead a few years to the release of TP, Nintendo "OK, here's what you wanted, a Zelda more like OoT." but by this time the majority of Zelda gamers are over their initial shock at how WW was and have decided that they liked the change, so they raise up their voices once again, only this time shouting "We want something new and fresh Nintendo, WW opened our eyes." (just kidding about the "opened our eyes" part).

EDIT: I'm gona workout for a little while I'll come back later and see how the conversation is progressing, God bless, and Peace to all.

[QUOTE="gdorf101"]

There are a lot of reasons that people pick on TP. For one, it was released on a next gen system, so people's expectations were probably even higher than their already too-high expectations. I say that they were already too high, because there was massive hype for the game, and, especially after WW, people were expecting something fresh, new, and innovative. However, the game wasn't originally meant for a next gen system, so that expectation was flawed. And as for new and innovative? Well, let me just say that uniqueness does not a good game make. Just because WW had an incredible control scheme that TP didn't really improve on that much, doesn't mean that WW was a better game. If you gave both games to a neutral gamer that had never played or heard of either's hype, that would be the true test. I contend that such a player would choose TP over WW, because of all of the reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't enjoy TP because it was like OoT. Frankly, I didn't find OoT to be all that great... (let the stoning begin). I didn't find many similarities to OoT. Although OoT had dark settings and atmospheres, it still wasn't really as mature or epic as TP, because TP capitalized on those settings and put more depth to the story. It had the feeling of doom being brought upon towns and civilizations, with children actually in danger and all. Not just having people happy, living their lives, while monsters are all around destroying the world. It also gave impressions that the enemies had lives and weren't mindless monsters, and made Link's adventure more of a quest than a hack and slash through armies and puzzles.

There were a lot of reasons why TP was great. However, with all of the hype, it wasn't as enjoyed as it should have been, and was far more open to scrutiny. If you expect filet mignon and get a rib eye, it's going to affect your taste.

Wintry_Flutist

I can only say you are easily impressed. Good for you, you'll enjoy a lot more things than me, but frankly, Harry Potter delivers more feeling of doom than TP and those weird kids.

Easily impressed because when comparing two things I can see a difference..? Nice, attack me instead of the argument. Very mature. TP wasn't the most epic game in the world, and did not have the best storyline ever, but COMPARED to OoT, it was MUCH greater in those elements. I'm not just talking about the kids. The kids were only in the game for the first third or so of the game, if even that. I'm surprised you can say I'm easily impressed, when you're the one trying to defend WW over TP, which is well, even less than OoT in every element except for gameplay...

Originality went out the door a long time ago when it comes to the structure of these games. A Zelda game is a Zelda game. We've been doing the same things, collecting the same items, solving the same puzzles, fighting the same kind of enemies for about 17 years now, since ALttP changed the series forever. When it comes to originality, not even Ocarina of Time is safe. The backbone of this series has been the same ever since.

What makes Twilight Princess so different? How is it any less original than any entry in the series? Look at Wind Waker, if it weren't for the cartoony cell shading and the sailing, how much different would it be from any other Zelda game?

ozzsoad

Someone here (maybe yourself) listed what made every Zelda game "different". The ocarina, masks, wind, time travel, wolf, stylus gameplay, and the list goes on.

I invite you to honestly compare how much fleshed out the "new" elements of TP (Basically, the Twilight and the Wolf) are compared to the "new" elements from previous games. Simply, Nintendo ignored them, and they are pretty much irrelevant. What's even worse, they are often annoying. The wolf is useless (could be better replaced by bringing back the shovel, the Lens of Truth, and putting a few Hookshot targets where the Wolf is insanely useful to jump), and the Twilight only appears at the very beginnig of the game, and is just a pain in the ass.

Blimey, TP would actually be better if it was a full OoT rip off instead of featuring weak excuses to claim it's "new"!

[QUOTE="ozzsoad"]

Originality went out the door a long time ago when it comes to the structure of these games. A Zelda game is a Zelda game. We've been doing the same things, collecting the same items, solving the same puzzles, fighting the same kind of enemies for about 17 years now, since ALttP changed the series forever. When it comes to originality, not even Ocarina of Time is safe. The backbone of this series has been the same ever since.

What makes Twilight Princess so different? How is it any less original than any entry in the series? Look at Wind Waker, if it weren't for the cartoony cell shading and the sailing, how much different would it be from any other Zelda game?

Wintry_Flutist

Someone here (maybe yourself) listed what made every Zelda game "different". The ocarina, masks, wind, time travel, wolf, stylus gameplay, and the list goes on.

I invite you to honestly compare how much fleshed out the "new" elements of TP (Basically, the Twilight and the Wolf) are compared to the "new" elements from previous games. Simply, Nintendo ignored them, and they are pretty much irrelevant. What's even worse, they are often annoying. The wolf is useless (could be better replaced by bringing back the shovel, the Lens of Truth, and putting a few Hookshot targets where the Wolf is insanely useful to jump), and the Twilight only appears at the very beginnig of the game, and is just a pain in the ass.

Blimey, TP would actually be better if it was a full OoT rip off instead of featuring weak excuses to claim it's "new"!

Easily impressed because when comparing two things I can see a difference..? Nice, attack me instead of the argument. Very mature. TP wasn't the most epic game in the world, and did not have the best storyline ever, but COMPARED to OoT, it was MUCH greater in those elements. I'm not just talking about the kids. The kids were only in the game for the first third or so of the game, if even that. I'm surprised you can say I'm easily impressed, when you're the one trying to defend WW over TP, which is well, even less than OoT in every element except for gameplay...

gdorf101

I expected you not to take that as an insult (as I tried to 'counterweight' my comment by saying you'll enjoy more things than me), but since you want to argue...

I rather have "no story" like OoT (a game that is nowhere supposed to feature a story, yet have enough of it to balance the overall achievement) than a weak story like in TP. I don't know what went through the staff mind when they came up with that, it's like they want to be taken seriously and deliver something memorable, but the characters are bland and the plot has no direction whatsoever. As far as storytelling in gaming goes, one has to have played very few games to accept what TP proposed as a "story".

I don't know why bring Wind Waker here, specially if you don't bring something better than "it's even less than OoT".

[QUOTE="Erebyssial"]

I thought Twilight Princess was amazing

I'm sorry to hear you didn't? :|

ozzsoad

Same here. The hate toward Twilight Princess seems to grow stronger and stronger all the time. I honestly don't understand it. It was and still is an incredible game. What exactly did people want out of the game?

When it comes down to it, every Zelda game since A Link to the Past has had the same gameplay elements, although each have an element of thier own. Ocarina of Time had, well, the ocarina as well as time travel. Majora's Mask had time travel as well as changing forms. Wind Waker had sailing. Minish Cap had shrinking. Phantom Hourglass had, okay, sailing and time manipulation again (but lets not complain about that). Twilight Princess had Wolf form.

Each of those game make you go out from dungeon to dungeon to solve puzzles and fight big creatures. There are side quests that'll help you along the way. Then you go out and gather hearts pieces and rupees, collect items that will bring you to another point in the game which will lead to a final battle.

Every Zelda game is this way, why pick on Twilight Princess?

"Twilight Princess is too much like Ocarina of Time." Oh really? Even if that were so, why is that a bad thing? I personally don't think it's true. "Oh, but there are Gorons and Zora's." So? They're a part of the Zelda universe, and have been for a long time. Zora's have been around since ALttP. "Yeah, but Epona...." Would you rather walk? Oh, and gee, you can battle and attack enemies while riding her, that hasn't been done before. "But the Dark World, it's been done before." Not like this. Instead of a pink bunny, you're a kick ass wolf with abilities never even touched in any of the other games. "But, but..." Just stop.

Twilight Princess is a great game, and nowhere near deserves the crap it gets from so many of you. Show it some bloody respect.

Damn, it's just a game! No respect needed for a game dude! Anyway, we complain because the formula has been overused with TP, and resembles to much the other games! For an instance, OoT IS the game that defined the Genre of Zelda in a 3D World, so it cannot really be compared to ALttP. Mayora´s Mask is a completely different game from any of the series! IMO I think the character development in this game is mind blowing and the time manipulation you talk about is completely different from the one in OoT, which creates wonderful dynamics on the sidequests! Also, the tranformations where introduced into the series! WW its really different too: sailing, fantastic art style and a completely different plot from the other games. In The Minish Cap you could shrink, which is a cool efature that copes good with the puzzles and other stuff, and you fight Vaati, not Ganon (actually, this game is better compared to ALttP, not Zelda 3D games). Phantom Hourglass has got nothing to do with it because it came later and at the end is just so different that it can't be compared either (DS gave new breath to the series, but at the end it just didn't felt like Zelda to me IMO). So, like you can see every game introduced something new and fresh into the series! All this things you listed it what makes every single game special and different. But then comes TP and recycles all this great features! Transformation, dark world (which is a little bit boring imo), someone gets kidanapped in the beggining, the locales are so similar (Kakakiro-Death Mountain, Zora Domain-Lake Hylia)... I know they are from the same universe, but did it really had to be so similar??? They could include all those and yet create a different experience! I mean, come on, even he get to see Forest, Fire and Water in the same order again. Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, most of it was new but built upon the foundations of all it's predeccesors, and at some points it just felt to similar to them. It's like they tried to put all the cool great features of the predeccesor's into one game and at the end it was overwhelming and they couln't take care of details and originality of the game itself, one example is the huge world which is empty... or the market overpopulated but you cannot interact with anyone. It would be much cooler if you could actually do something it that huge world!! I mean, it is a great Zelda game, and I really enjoyed it, but it seems that the lack of originality really hits hard the game! But still, it a great experience! Especially on the Wii (Wiimote adds some fresh content, but its the same old formula in the end).

My thoughts are that Windwaker=Light,Bright,Happy,Nice,RPG... Twilight=Heavy,Dark,Gloomy,Evil,Action...

Most of the Windwaker has the sort of happy atmosphere, their are plenty of people to see, you're not the only guy alive.

For most of Twilight you are in what is almost an entire dungeon, everywhere their is evil around, and generally things are dark.

Windwaker was more of an RPG for me because of all the running around and sort of things one could do, while Twilight seemed to rely heavily on action. I prefer the Windwaker over Twilight, although I will not deny that I enjoyed Twilight to a great degree. Unfortunetly Twilight doesn't have much or any replay value. After you finish the game, if you load your game file, you are back to before you beat the boss, leaving the feel of accomlplishment left behind and you are (at least I was) to beat the final area before you go and do other things available. Even though it was a light addition to replay in Windwaker, you had the new shirt, and the colored camera. Which was enough to make me play again.

Et Fini

[QUOTE="ozzsoad"]

Originality went out the door a long time ago when it comes to the structure of these games. A Zelda game is a Zelda game. We've been doing the same things, collecting the same items, solving the same puzzles, fighting the same kind of enemies for about 17 years now, since ALttP changed the series forever. When it comes to originality, not even Ocarina of Time is safe. The backbone of this series has been the same ever since.

What makes Twilight Princess so different? How is it any less original than any entry in the series? Look at Wind Waker, if it weren't for the cartoony cell shading and the sailing, how much different would it be from any other Zelda game?

Wintry_Flutist

Someone here (maybe yourself) listed what made every Zelda game "different". The ocarina, masks, wind, time travel, wolf, stylus gameplay, and the list goes on.

I invite you to honestly compare how much fleshed out the "new" elements of TP (Basically, the Twilight and the Wolf) are compared to the "new" elements from previous games. Simply, Nintendo ignored them, and they are pretty much irrelevant. What's even worse, they are often annoying. The wolf is useless (could be better replaced by bringing back the shovel, the Lens of Truth, and putting a few Hookshot targets where the Wolf is insanely useful to jump), and the Twilight only appears at the very beginnig of the game, and is just a pain in the ass.

Blimey, TP would actually be better if it was a full OoT rip off instead of featuring weak excuses to claim it's "new"!

Whatcha talking about??!? Not even Twilight and Wolf are new: Twilight = Dark World Lame Edition, Wolf = transformations in MM. And no, an OoT ripoff is not better. The game is new on its own and never would I want a remake over a different Zelda Game. Twilight Princess is excellent, it just resembles too much the other games IN SOME PARTS imo.

I invite you to honestly compare how much fleshed out the "new" elements of TP (Basically, the Twilight and the Wolf) are compared to the "new" elements from previous games. Simply, Nintendo ignored them, and they are pretty much irrelevant. What's even worse, they are often annoying. The wolf is useless (could be better replaced by bringing back the shovel, the Lens of Truth, and putting a few Hookshot targets where the Wolf is insanely useful to jump), and the Twilight only appears at the very beginnig of the game, and is just a pain in the ass.

Blimey, TP would actually be better if it was a full OoT rip off instead of featuring weak excuses to claim it's "new"!

Wintry_Flutist

I found playing as Wolf Link to be a lot of fun, honestly. I didn't think anything was tacked on or irrelevant.

The reasons for why I liked this game starts with the fact that it's easily the most epic in the series. Attacking was made easier and actually made funner to do. I enjoyed fighting with the Wolf, especially when attacking multiple enemies at the same time. Aiming with the Wii-mote added a lot as well as being able to attack on horseback made for some great battles. The mood and style of the game had it's own feel, which I liked a lot for this type of game. I liked the more mature, dark feel to the game. An enormous map to explore and discover new things was a lot of fun. Little touches like fishing were done very, very well with the Wii's controls...

It's just an all around great game. I didn't find anything in the game unnecessary or badly executed in any way. I can't agree with a single thing you've complained about.

Whatcha talking about??!? Not even Twilight and Wolf are new: Twilight = Dark World Lame Edition, Wolf = transformations in MM. And no, an OoT ripoff is not better. The game is new on its own and never would I want a remake over a different Zelda Game. Twilight Princess is excellent, it just resembles too much the other games IN SOME PARTS imo.

dan543

No matter how you look at this, the Twilight and Wolf are what is supposed to set TP apart. But Nintendo didn't give those elements depth enough. The way you talk, it seems you are closing your eyes to a lot of things.

All twilight princess did was keep the series where it is. It didnt move it forward like any of the other zelda's did. Adding the wolf was pretty boring since the wolf gameplay sucked.
Haziqonfire

How did Ocarina of Time move the series forward? What about Majora's Mask or Wind Waker, how did those games or any other titles in the series move anything forward? Tell me. What did you want this game to be? The only game to move the series forward was A Link to the Past. Things have been the same ever since when it comes to the structure of the games, nothing has changed.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]All twilight princess did was keep the series where it is. It didnt move it forward like any of the other zelda's did. Adding the wolf was pretty boring since the wolf gameplay sucked.
ozzsoad

How did Ocarina of Time move the series forward? What about Majora's Mask or Wind Waker, how did those games or any other titles in the series move anything forward? Tell me. What did you want this game to be? The only game to move the series forward was A Link to the Past. Things have been the same ever since when it comes to the structure of the games, nothing has changed.

Majora's Mask made a step foreward (I hear) in the Zelda Series, but then it was kinda left where it ended up. I am not sure how they can advance it. If they change the gameplay too much then it wont be the same game and then some zelda fans wont like it, and some new ones will. I think Windwaker was a change (being on the sea) and Twilight was a change (Wolf and Twilight Zone) but as far as advancing the series...

I found playing as Wolf Link to be a lot of fun, honestly. I didn't think anything was tacked on or irrelevant.

The reasons for why I liked this game starts with the fact that it's easily the most epic in the series. Attacking was made easier and actually made funner to do. I enjoyed fighting with the Wolf, especially when attacking multiple enemies at the same time. Aiming with the Wii-mote added a lot as well as being able to attack on horseback made for some great battles. The mood and style of the game had it's own feel, which I liked a lot for this type of game. I liked the more mature, dark feel to the game. An enormous map to explore and discover new things was a lot of fun. Little touches like fishing were done very, very well with the Wii's controls...

It's just an all around great game. I didn't find anything in the game unnecessary or badly executed in any way. I can't agree with a single thing you've complained about.

ozzsoad

Oh, and I'm a noob, so how do I start a poll?

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

I invite you to honestly compare how much fleshed out the "new" elements of TP (Basically, the Twilight and the Wolf) are compared to the "new" elements from previous games. Simply, Nintendo ignored them, and they are pretty much irrelevant. What's even worse, they are often annoying. The wolf is useless (could be better replaced by bringing back the shovel, the Lens of Truth, and putting a few Hookshot targets where the Wolf is insanely useful to jump), and the Twilight only appears at the very beginnig of the game, and is just a pain in the ass.

Blimey, TP would actually be better if it was a full OoT rip off instead of featuring weak excuses to claim it's "new"!

ozzsoad

All twilight princess did was keep the series where it is. It didnt move it forward like any of the other zelda's did. Adding the wolf was pretty boring since the wolf gameplay sucked.
Haziqonfire

The flaws I point out are elements that should have been worked a lot more in order to move the series forward, as we actually should expect. A new Zelda game is supposed to redefine adventure in some extent. Something TP is far from having done.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]All twilight princess did was keep the series where it is. It didnt move it forward like any of the other zelda's did. Adding the wolf was pretty boring since the wolf gameplay sucked.
ozzsoad

How did Ocarina of Time move the series forward? What about Majora's Mask or Wind Waker, how did those games or any other titles in the series move anything forward? Tell me. What did you want this game to be? The only game to move the series forward was A Link to the Past. Things have been the same ever since when it comes to the structure of the games, nothing has changed.

There you go again, by saying TP is as good as its predecessors, you are obliged to say those games are just as bland as TP. And that is among the worst denials ever.

Ocarina of Time solved pretty much every 3D gaming paradigm that Mario 64 left behind. The solutions OoT brought are still used in every game to date. Ocarina of Time is not just a terrific Zelda game, it is the game thanks to which we can control games properly nowadays.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker brought alot of new things that, while less impacting than what Ocarina of Time did, gave them proper personality. The time system in Majora's Mask is unprecedent, and what people judge to be only the 'skin' of Wind Waker, the cel shaded graphics, is actually what boosted 'art direction' as a recurrent and important element to be worked on a game. It obviously existed before, but you didn't see anyone using the words "art direction" in those forums before that.

There you go again, by saying TP is as good as its predecessors, you are obliged to say those games are just as bland as TP. And that is among the worst denials ever.

Ocarina of Time solved pretty much every 3D gaming paradigm that Mario 64 left behind. The solutions OoT brought are still used in every game to date. Ocarina of Time is not just a terrific Zelda game, it is the game thanks to which we can control games properly nowadays.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker brought alot of new things that, while less impacting than what Ocarina of Time did, gave them proper personality. The time system in Majora's Mask is unprecedent, and what people judge to be only the 'skin' of Wind Waker, the cel shaded graphics, is actually what boosted 'art direction' as a recurrent and important element to be worked on a game. It obviously existed before, but you didn't see anyone using the words "art direction" in those forums before that.

Wintry_Flutist

Oh, and to people who say we should stop arguing we enjoy arguing our points.

[QUOTE="ozzsoad"]

How did Ocarina of Time move the series forward? What about Majora's Mask or Wind Waker, how did those games or any other titles in the series move anything forward? Tell me. What did you want this game to be? The only game to move the series forward was A Link to the Past. Things have been the same ever since when it comes to the structure of the games, nothing has changed.

Wintry_Flutist

There you go again, by saying TP is as good as its predecessors, you are obliged to say those games are just as bland as TP. And that is among the worst denials ever.

Ocarina of Time solved pretty much every 3D gaming paradigm that Mario 64 left behind. The solutions OoT brought are still used in every game to date. Ocarina of Time is not just a terrific Zelda game, it is the game thanks to which we can control games properly nowadays.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker brought alot of new things that, while less impacting than what Ocarina of Time did, gave them proper personality. The time system in Majora's Mask is unprecedent, and what people judge to be only the 'skin' of Wind Waker, the cel shaded graphics, is actually what boosted 'art direction' as a recurrent and important element to be worked on a game. It obviously existed before, but you didn't see anyone using the words "art direction" in those forums before that.

Wow, okay, no, I was saying there hasn't been anything in the series that has impacted future titles in the series like A Link to the Past did. I'm comparing every Zelda game after that title because at the core, they're all the same game. What I'm getting at is that there's no difference between ALttP and every Zelda game after it once you've stripped the visuals and get to the core of the gameplay.

Ocarina of Time had changed the perspective of the gameplay, but is it any different from ALttP? The theme is the same in every Zelda game, there are very little surprises.

You may argue that Twilight Princess lacked in some areas, like Wolf Form, but in my opinion I could say just as many negative things about Majora's Mask, my least favorite in the series. Admittedly, it strayed farthest away from the traditional Zelda we know, but where has that gone? Nowhere. In Wind Waker, the boat is just another means to travel.

What I'm getting at is that no Zelda game is all that different from each other. We're still doing the same things in each game. Why does Twilight Princess stand out so much? How is any game in the series so different or "new" from each other?

EDIT: I'm done with this. I could have been playing the game instead of wasting my time on here. I never would have thought I'd have to stand up for a game this great. See ya haters later, I have a Princess to save.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"] There you go again, by saying TP is as good as its predecessors, you are obliged to say those games are just as bland as TP. And that is among the worst denials ever.

Ocarina of Time solved pretty much every 3D gaming paradigm that Mario 64 left behind. The solutions OoT brought are still used in every game to date. Ocarina of Time is not just a terrific Zelda game, it is the game thanks to which we can control games properly nowadays.

Majora's Mask and Wind Waker brought alot of new things that, while less impacting than what Ocarina of Time did, gave them proper personality. The time system in Majora's Mask is unprecedent, and what people judge to be only the 'skin' of Wind Waker, the cel shaded graphics, is actually what boosted 'art direction' as a recurrent and important element to be worked on a game. It obviously existed before, but you didn't see anyone using the words "art direction" in those forums before that.

MaceKhan

Oh, and to people who say we should stop arguing we enjoy arguing our points.

Something like this new lock on system can be done "en passant", but is far from enough to move action/adventure forward. The recurrent elements of Zelda are supposed to be more polished every new game, but what about new stuff?

People seem to love to say "if you look at it no Zelda actually innovates!!!11!", but let's be honest here, no one can say every Zelda relied solely on what ALttP did (actually it didn't do anything much different than the original Zelda, so I don't see why ozzsoad wants to divide the series in before and after ALttP, OoT is a much more valid twist point). And as I keep reminding (or trying to remind) people, when TP was announced, Nintendo had solid plans to introduce a lot of fresh ideas in the game: for instance, animal interaction was going to be the main theme.

As we know, this didn't happen, Nintendo actually even started to compare TP to OoT too much, every goal was set accordingly to OoT: TP had to be bigger than OoT, it had to feature more dungeons, more items, etc. No one can deny it, Nintendo suddenly wanted TP to be like OoT (= they wanted to push Wii sales). Why they still kept a few elements of the original concept, I can't really know, but it strongly feels like they needed something to say TP was new...