Most overrated retro games?

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="Articuno76"]Resident Evil 2. I was going to mention 1 and 2, but I think when RE1 came out the survival horror genre was still quite new to consoles so it was quite scary. Now graphics and sound fidelity age, but what those graphics and sounds can evoke can stay true for decades. It isn't how these factors have aged that pull RE2 down, it's the voice acting: bad acting is bad, regardless of what decade or what technology is available. The effect this has on RE2 is devastatingly counter to what the game is about. RE2 I consider overated precisely because so many reviewers felt the game was 'scary'. Even at the time we knew the voice acting and writing was comically bad. The last thing you want when trying to make a game scary is cutscenes where the player has to control their urge to laugh out hysterically. And yet we all played along. Looking back on it now it is even harder to look past. The performance is so bad it actually undermines the 'horror' aspect for which the game is often praised. For that I consider it overated.Articuno76

You're gonna fault RE2 for it's voice-acting over RE1? Neither of them were good, by any means, but RE1 was just on a entirely different level. It's like they were trying their hardest to be campy.

re1 wasn't the first survival horror game. still the storie ain't too bad imo, although with code veronica they really did their first triple a game that stood the test of time imo

I suggest you read this review of shenmue 2 from me. basically the same counts for shenmue 1(although 2 is better in many ways) the amount of detail gone into a game the size of this had never been done before or done since, for instance EVERY character is different. that's right every person you encounter in the games is unique, you can enter virtuall every place,shop,home! like skyrim for instance. in almost every way it's better than gta 3. story, graphics, gameplay(fighting), there's a lot more things to do in general.

http://www.gamespot.com/shenmue-ii/user-reviews/786680/platform/dreamcast/

pls read, the same counts for shenmue 1, although 2 is bigger

bultje112

The problem with Shenmue for me is that it unfortunately left us hanging. 2's cliffhanger is terrible. Almost as bad as Darkwing Duck's (til the newest comic series came out).

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

I suggest you read this review of shenmue 2 from me. basically the same counts for shenmue 1(although 2 is better in many ways) the amount of detail gone into a game the size of this had never been done before or done since, for instance EVERY character is different. that's right every person you encounter in the games is unique, you can enter virtuall every place,shop,home! like skyrim for instance. in almost every way it's better than gta 3. story, graphics, gameplay(fighting), there's a lot more things to do in general.

http://www.gamespot.com/shenmue-ii/user-reviews/786680/platform/dreamcast/

pls read, the same counts for shenmue 1, although 2 is bigger

Aero5555

The problem with Shenmue for me is that it unfortunately left us hanging. 2's cliffhanger is terrible. Almost as bad as Darkwing Duck's (til the newest comic series came out).

what do you mean terrible? I think it's great and made you look forward so much to part 3.

[QUOTE="Aero5555"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

I suggest you read this review of shenmue 2 from me. basically the same counts for shenmue 1(although 2 is better in many ways) the amount of detail gone into a game the size of this had never been done before or done since, for instance EVERY character is different. that's right every person you encounter in the games is unique, you can enter virtuall every place,shop,home! like skyrim for instance. in almost every way it's better than gta 3. story, graphics, gameplay(fighting), there's a lot more things to do in general.

http://www.gamespot.com/shenmue-ii/user-reviews/786680/platform/dreamcast/

pls read, the same counts for shenmue 1, although 2 is bigger

bultje112

The problem with Shenmue for me is that it unfortunately left us hanging. 2's cliffhanger is terrible. Almost as bad as Darkwing Duck's (til the newest comic series came out).

what do you mean terrible? I think it's great and made you look forward so much to part 3.

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Aero5555"]

The problem with Shenmue for me is that it unfortunately left us hanging. 2's cliffhanger is terrible. Almost as bad as Darkwing Duck's (til the newest comic series came out).

Dudersaper

what do you mean terrible? I think it's great and made you look forward so much to part 3.

the only bad thing is, we never got shenmue 3, but that'd hardly a fault of shenmue 2. that game is awesome to the end

Resident Evil 2. I was going to mention 1 and 2, but I think when RE1 came out the survival horror genre was still quite new to consoles so it was quite scary. Now graphics and sound fidelity age, but what those graphics and sounds can evoke can stay true for decades. It isn't how these factors have aged that pull RE2 down, it's the voice acting: bad acting is bad, regardless of what decade or what technology is available. The effect this has on RE2 is devastatingly counter to what the game is about. RE2 I consider overated precisely because so many reviewers felt the game was 'scary'. Even at the time we knew the voice acting and writing was comically bad. The last thing you want when trying to make a game scary is cutscenes where the player has to control their urge to laugh out hysterically. And yet we all played along. Looking back on it now it is even harder to look past. The performance is so bad it actually undermines the 'horror' aspect for which the game is often praised. For that I consider it overated.Articuno76

Besides, the vast majority of video games back then had equally bad voice acting. That's why the voice acting (despite us knowing how bad it is) was never an issue, simply because that was the norm in video games at the time. It wasn't until Metal Gear Solid came along that video games actually started having decent voice acting. Up until then, most gamers never expected video games to have good voice acting.

In other words, I wouldn't consider the early RE games 'overrated' simply because of the voice acting. RE2 was from the pre-MGS era, so I don't think it's fare to judge it by post-MGS voice acting standards. Ironically, the voice acting in the original MGS hasn't aged all that well either, despite being hailed for its voice acting quality at the time.

I really don't like any of the Metroid games.

I also hate Metroidvania. The last great Castlevania game was Dracula X.

The Sonic Adventure games are terrible. The original Sonic the Hedgehog is bad, too.

Edit: Didn't even see that the OP says the same exact thing

To my knowledge the voice acting in Resident Evil was made to resemble a B-grade horror flick.Heirren

To my knowledge the voice acting in Resident Evil was made to resemble a B-grade horror flick.Heirren

no it wasn;t. that's why they got rid of the opening vide on the gamecube, the japanese voice acting for re1 is very good. this happens all the time when japanese let americans do voice overs and they think it sounds great because they don't know english, one of the few early exceptions was snatcher, but then again that translation was done by an american jeremy blaustein

I LOVE the PSX era voice acting of Resi Evil.

Anyone who doesn't is a fuking douche.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]To my knowledge the voice acting in Resident Evil was made to resemble a B-grade horror flick.bultje112

no it wasn;t. that's why they got rid of the opening vide on the gamecube, the japanese voice acting for re1 is very good. this happens all the time when japanese let americans do voice overs and they think it sounds great because they don't know english, one of the few early exceptions was snatcher, but then again that translation was done by an american jeremy blaustein

I LOVE the PSX era voice acting of Resi Evil.

Anyone who doesn't is a fuking douche.

Ilovegames1992

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

no it wasn;t. that's why they got rid of the opening vide on the gamecube, the japanese voice acting for re1 is very good. this happens all the time when japanese let americans do voice overs and they think it sounds great because they don't know english, one of the few early exceptions was snatcher, but then again that translation was done by an american jeremy blaustein

Heirren

I LOVE the PSX era voice acting of Resi Evil.

Anyone who doesn't is a fuking douche.

Ilovegames1992

I agree with the sentiment behind it, but I wouldn't be so blunt.

I didn't know that, but it would make a lot of sense.

The issue I have isn't with the voice acting itself (which was on par with many games at the time). I am applying the term 'overated' by looking at what the games were, by contemporary audiences, 'rated' for and then judging whether I feel those evaluations were accurate. RE2 was evaluated positively at the time for being scary, but I find that the effect the voice acting has on the game makes those claims hard to buy into. In order for it to work as scary you would have to buy into what should appear from the outsiders perspective (a non-gamer for instance) ridiculous. RE2 may have scared people, but a lot of that may have been because the audience was willing to suspend belief and allow it to scare them (the same is true I guess to an extent for anything in the horror genre)...but I can't shake the feeling that the suspension of belief came far more from the audiences' willingness to play along rather than the innate qualities of the game itself. For that reason I consider it overated based on what people (I feel) mis-praised when the game was new.

I won't go as far as to make an evaluation on the quality of the game as a whole (whether it is a good or a bad game) as that goes beyond the scope of this topic. What I am looking at is 'over'-rating in particular. Contemporary reviewers for instance noted, even then, that the controls were clunky and problematic. So it wasn't the case that the audience back then was evaluating the controls positively (overating) in spite of evidence to the contrary (though many may argue as to just how much the controls effect the overall experience).

On an aside, I hope more people will take a detailed look as to why they feel a game is overated (which first demands an understanding of which aspects a game were and were not not praised). Its far more interesting than simply upturning a popular opinion. Articuno76

I don't really see any point in singling out RE2 over something that nearly all PS1 games were guilty of at the time. Nearly all PS1 games at the time had bad voice acting, or at least the English versions did. And it's not like reviewers weren't aware of this, but even back then they criticized RE2 for having "B-movie"  voice acting, but they still considered it an improvement over the first RE, and there was no point in docking points for it simply because of the fact that it wasn't any worse than the English voice acting for nearly every other PS1 game at the time (up until MGS improved the voice acting standards a lot by the end of 1998).

Besides, good voice acting isn't necessarily a requirement for horror movies. Sam Raimi's movies, for example, are known to have bad B-movie acting, yet Raimi movies like Evil Dead and Drag Me To Hell are still great horror movies and can even be very scary at times. Hell, I even found Drag Me to Hell to be one of the scariest movies I've ever seen despite the bad, cheesy, B-movie acting, even though most of the horror movies which take themselves way too seriously couldn't scare me. Bad acting isn't always a bad thing for horror movies, but sometimes it can be a good thing when it comes to Sam Raimi's B-movie horror.

no it wasn;t. that's why they got rid of the opening vide on the gamecube, the japanese voice acting for re1 is very good. this happens all the time when japanese let americans do voice overs and they think it sounds great because they don't know english, one of the few early exceptions was snatcher, but then again that translation was done by an american jeremy blaustein

bultje112

And oh yeah, I almost forgot about Snatcher. That game had pretty good voice acting for its time. And so did the games that Working Designs localized, like the Lunar and Grandia games. The quality of the English translation and voice acting really came down to who was localizing the game. As long as it was localized by people like Jeremy Blaustein or Working Designs, then you were pretty much guaranteed that the English voice acting wouldn't suck like most other dubbed games at the time.

 ff7

 silent hill 1

My list of over-rated retro games would look something like this:

Final Fantasy - Worst.  Grind.  Ever.  Okay, not quite as bad as Dragon Warrior, but most RPGer's think Dragon Warrior is very mediocre.

Sonic The Hedgehog - Gameplay actually quite limited.  Very pretty, though.

Final Fantasy VII - The antithesis of VI in terms of gameplay, character development and concept; what it had in CGI cutscenes it lacked in character substance.  Plus the story was f*cking ridiculous.

Final Fantasy X - 40 hour long RPG on rails requiring grinding, and with the most insipid characters since 7.  I'll pass, thank you very much.

Super Mario RPG - Short, boring.  Neat combat system, though.

Top Gear - Top Gear 2 owns this.  I have no idea why so many people think that an Outrun clone is better than sequels that are actually much more thought out, and play like they are.

Quake - Fugly as hell, interactivity is a huge leap backward, weapons are boring, level design is very uninspired.

Super Mario 64 - Looked like Mario, didn't feel like it.  Left me feeling bamboozled.  Plus I genuinely felt that Mario did not transition well to 3D at that time.

Earthworm Jim - Stupidly hard, boring and did not feel like there was any real direction; I felt that I was punished far more than rewarded for exploration which greatly deterred me from playing.  I didn't make it past the first level.  Ironically, I nearly finished Earthworm Jim 2.

Super Street Fighter 2 SNES - framerate drops make this game very annoying, although multiplayer suite was absolutely fantastic and set this above its arcade origins.  That said, Genesis version is arguably better.

Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask - The time limit made this game stupidly irritating

Jungle Strike - boring as hell, but great concept.  The sequels are much better and its contemporaries, the Mercenaries games, were absolutely fantastic.

Resident Evil 2 - Terrible controls especially compared to other contemporaries at the time; Capcom could have learned several things from titles like Shadowman.

X-Men Arcade - Felt like moving from one boxed region to another, uninspired gameplay compared even to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtless; Konami really dropped the ball in the name of the license there.  Especially with somewhat unique contemporaries such as The Punisher which had much more to offer.

Double Dragon V - It was that bad.

Battletoads - stupidly hard, gimmicky.  The kill animations are cool when you're six, but they don't hide the fact that the game's combat system is dumb as rocks.

Mortal Kombat - it's all about the gore.  Other than special moves and finishers, the characters are carbon-copies of each other, and this really wouldn't pan out until 3.  Clearly it was all about spamming specials; otherwise, everyone would be playing the same putz who punched and kicked high and low and fired off the same uppercuts, round houses and jump kicks.

Final Fight - Shallow combat based around attack button spamming.  Completely backwards from superior arcade brawlers like Double Dragon.  Granted, it looked a lot prettier and Mike Haggar's suplexes and piledrivers looked pretty cool.  Granted, Knights of the Round did essentially come of this, and that game was awesome.

Gauntlet - Boooooooring.  Great quarter-killer, though.  Granted, it more or less took Rogue and put it in a more accessible domain, but after a dozen levels, you want to gouge your own eyes out.  Its later sequels - particularly Gauntlet Legends - are pretty good, though.  Seven Sorrows is also much underappreciated.

Halo 2 - Completely undid much of the awesomeness of Halo 1 in favour of dual-wielding.  The combat was poorly balanced and local multiplayer suffered from the pointlessness of disabling shields.  If you've ever played Halo with no shields and human weapons only, you'll understand what I mean.  Not to mention it was cut short so that Microsoft could have Halo titles ready for the 360 - completely the opposite of Bungie's promise that Halo 2 was the last one, and it left many gamers like myself feeling ripped off.

Ghost Recon 2 - Completely backwards; it took a brilliant thinking man's tactical shooter that focused on team work, tactical positioning and stealth, and turned into a twitch shooter.  Eff you very much.  Advanced War Fighter on the XBox sucked, and I didn't bother with the 360 version; I am liking Future Soldier quite a bit, though.  Which brings me to my next one:

Rainbow Six 3 (console, can't speak for PC) - No planning elements, no team management; all of the depth stripped right down. 

Metal Gear Solid 2 (aka Movie Gear Solid 2) - the game plays you far too much, and there's way too much emphasis on Kojima's pretensious assumptions of what tactical warfare and the relations between the participants should be.  The ending left me feeling frustrated and deflated, like the whole thing was completely pointless.

Half-Life - Cinematic does not equal good.  Half-Life brought a lot of ideas that began in the DOS days to the fore-front as far as scripted design goes; it takes most of its cues from a game called CyberMage (an awesome but buggy mess).  Conceptually, Half-Life is hardly innovative, and while its execution was good, I really didn't like it for all the hype (which is, granted, often a huge buzzkill for me which is why I ignore it until a game comes out unless I have access to real gameplay details).  I enjoyed Goldeneye's multiplayer far more, and Half-Life's singleplayer experience left me feeling extremely underwhelmed as well.

My list of over-rated retro games would look something like this:

Final Fantasy - Worst.  Grind.  Ever.  Okay, not quite as bad as Dragon Warrior, but most RPGer's think Dragon Warrior is very mediocre.

Sonic The Hedgehog - Gameplay actually quite limited.  Very pretty, though.

Final Fantasy VII - The antithesis of VI in terms of gameplay, character development and concept; what it had in CGI cutscenes it lacked in character substance.  Plus the story was f*cking ridiculous.

Final Fantasy X - 40 hour long RPG on rails requiring grinding, and with the most insipid characters since 7.  I'll pass, thank you very much.

Super Mario RPG - Short, boring.  Neat combat system, though.

Top Gear - Top Gear 2 owns this.  I have no idea why so many people think that an Outrun clone is better than sequels that are actually much more thought out, and play like they are.

Quake - Fugly as hell, interactivity is a huge leap backward, weapons are boring, level design is very uninspired.

Super Mario 64 - Looked like Mario, didn't feel like it.  Left me feeling bamboozled.  Plus I genuinely felt that Mario did not transition well to 3D at that time.

Earthworm Jim - Stupidly hard, boring and did not feel like there was any real direction; I felt that I was punished far more than rewarded for exploration which greatly deterred me from playing.  I didn't make it past the first level.  Ironically, I nearly finished Earthworm Jim 2.

Super Street Fighter 2 SNES - framerate drops make this game very annoying, although multiplayer suite was absolutely fantastic and set this above its arcade origins.  That said, Genesis version is arguably better.

Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask - The time limit made this game stupidly irritating

Jungle Strike - boring as hell, but great concept.  The sequels are much better and its contemporaries, the Mercenaries games, were absolutely fantastic.

Resident Evil 2 - Terrible controls especially compared to other contemporaries at the time; Capcom could have learned several things from titles like Shadowman.

X-Men Arcade - Felt like moving from one boxed region to another, uninspired gameplay compared even to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtless; Konami really dropped the ball in the name of the license there.  Especially with somewhat unique contemporaries such as The Punisher which had much more to offer.

Double Dragon V - It was that bad.

Battletoads - stupidly hard, gimmicky.  The kill animations are cool when you're six, but they don't hide the fact that the game's combat system is dumb as rocks.

Mortal Kombat - it's all about the gore.  Other than special moves and finishers, the characters are carbon-copies of each other, and this really wouldn't pan out until 3.  Clearly it was all about spamming specials; otherwise, everyone would be playing the same putz who punched and kicked high and low and fired off the same uppercuts, round houses and jump kicks.

Final Fight - Shallow combat based around attack button spamming.  Completely backwards from superior arcade brawlers like Double Dragon.  Granted, it looked a lot prettier and Mike Haggar's suplexes and piledrivers looked pretty cool.  Granted, Knights of the Round did essentially come of this, and that game was awesome.

Gauntlet - Boooooooring.  Great quarter-killer, though.  Granted, it more or less took Rogue and put it in a more accessible domain, but after a dozen levels, you want to gouge your own eyes out.  Its later sequels - particularly Gauntlet Legends - are pretty good, though.  Seven Sorrows is also much underappreciated.

Halo 2 - Completely undid much of the awesomeness of Halo 1 in favour of dual-wielding.  The combat was poorly balanced and local multiplayer suffered from the pointlessness of disabling shields.  If you've ever played Halo with no shields and human weapons only, you'll understand what I mean.  Not to mention it was cut short so that Microsoft could have Halo titles ready for the 360 - completely the opposite of Bungie's promise that Halo 2 was the last one, and it left many gamers like myself feeling ripped off.

Ghost Recon 2 - Completely backwards; it took a brilliant thinking man's tactical shooter that focused on team work, tactical positioning and stealth, and turned into a twitch shooter.  Eff you very much.  Advanced War Fighter on the XBox sucked, and I didn't bother with the 360 version; I am liking Future Soldier quite a bit, though.  Which brings me to my next one:

Rainbow Six 3 (console, can't speak for PC) - No planning elements, no team management; all of the depth stripped right down. 

Metal Gear Solid 2 (aka Movie Gear Solid 2) - the game plays you far too much, and there's way too much emphasis on Kojima's pretensious assumptions of what tactical warfare and the relations between the participants should be.  The ending left me feeling frustrated and deflated, like the whole thing was completely pointless.

Half-Life - Cinematic does not equal good.  Half-Life brought a lot of ideas that began in the DOS days to the fore-front as far as scripted design goes; it takes most of its cues from a game called CyberMage (an awesome but buggy mess).  Conceptually, Half-Life is hardly innovative, and while its execution was good, I really didn't like it for all the hype (which is, granted, often a huge buzzkill for me which is why I ignore it until a game comes out unless I have access to real gameplay details).  I enjoyed Goldeneye's multiplayer far more, and Half-Life's singleplayer experience left me feeling extremely underwhelmed as well.

Apathetic_Prick

Troll post.

[QUOTE="Apathetic_Prick"]

My list of over-rated retro games would look something like this:

Final Fantasy - Worst.  Grind.  Ever.  Okay, not quite as bad as Dragon Warrior, but most RPGer's think Dragon Warrior is very mediocre.

Sonic The Hedgehog - Gameplay actually quite limited.  Very pretty, though.

Final Fantasy VII - The antithesis of VI in terms of gameplay, character development and concept; what it had in CGI cutscenes it lacked in character substance.  Plus the story was f*cking ridiculous.

Final Fantasy X - 40 hour long RPG on rails requiring grinding, and with the most insipid characters since 7.  I'll pass, thank you very much.

Super Mario RPG - Short, boring.  Neat combat system, though.

Top Gear - Top Gear 2 owns this.  I have no idea why so many people think that an Outrun clone is better than sequels that are actually much more thought out, and play like they are.

Quake - Fugly as hell, interactivity is a huge leap backward, weapons are boring, level design is very uninspired.

Super Mario 64 - Looked like Mario, didn't feel like it.  Left me feeling bamboozled.  Plus I genuinely felt that Mario did not transition well to 3D at that time.

Earthworm Jim - Stupidly hard, boring and did not feel like there was any real direction; I felt that I was punished far more than rewarded for exploration which greatly deterred me from playing.  I didn't make it past the first level.  Ironically, I nearly finished Earthworm Jim 2.

Super Street Fighter 2 SNES - framerate drops make this game very annoying, although multiplayer suite was absolutely fantastic and set this above its arcade origins.  That said, Genesis version is arguably better.

Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask - The time limit made this game stupidly irritating

Jungle Strike - boring as hell, but great concept.  The sequels are much better and its contemporaries, the Mercenaries games, were absolutely fantastic.

Resident Evil 2 - Terrible controls especially compared to other contemporaries at the time; Capcom could have learned several things from titles like Shadowman.

X-Men Arcade - Felt like moving from one boxed region to another, uninspired gameplay compared even to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtless; Konami really dropped the ball in the name of the license there.  Especially with somewhat unique contemporaries such as The Punisher which had much more to offer.

Double Dragon V - It was that bad.

Battletoads - stupidly hard, gimmicky.  The kill animations are cool when you're six, but they don't hide the fact that the game's combat system is dumb as rocks.

Mortal Kombat - it's all about the gore.  Other than special moves and finishers, the characters are carbon-copies of each other, and this really wouldn't pan out until 3.  Clearly it was all about spamming specials; otherwise, everyone would be playing the same putz who punched and kicked high and low and fired off the same uppercuts, round houses and jump kicks.

Final Fight - Shallow combat based around attack button spamming.  Completely backwards from superior arcade brawlers like Double Dragon.  Granted, it looked a lot prettier and Mike Haggar's suplexes and piledrivers looked pretty cool.  Granted, Knights of the Round did essentially come of this, and that game was awesome.

Gauntlet - Boooooooring.  Great quarter-killer, though.  Granted, it more or less took Rogue and put it in a more accessible domain, but after a dozen levels, you want to gouge your own eyes out.  Its later sequels - particularly Gauntlet Legends - are pretty good, though.  Seven Sorrows is also much underappreciated.

Halo 2 - Completely undid much of the awesomeness of Halo 1 in favour of dual-wielding.  The combat was poorly balanced and local multiplayer suffered from the pointlessness of disabling shields.  If you've ever played Halo with no shields and human weapons only, you'll understand what I mean.  Not to mention it was cut short so that Microsoft could have Halo titles ready for the 360 - completely the opposite of Bungie's promise that Halo 2 was the last one, and it left many gamers like myself feeling ripped off.

Ghost Recon 2 - Completely backwards; it took a brilliant thinking man's tactical shooter that focused on team work, tactical positioning and stealth, and turned into a twitch shooter.  Eff you very much.  Advanced War Fighter on the XBox sucked, and I didn't bother with the 360 version; I am liking Future Soldier quite a bit, though.  Which brings me to my next one:

Rainbow Six 3 (console, can't speak for PC) - No planning elements, no team management; all of the depth stripped right down. 

Metal Gear Solid 2 (aka Movie Gear Solid 2) - the game plays you far too much, and there's way too much emphasis on Kojima's pretensious assumptions of what tactical warfare and the relations between the participants should be.  The ending left me feeling frustrated and deflated, like the whole thing was completely pointless.

Half-Life - Cinematic does not equal good.  Half-Life brought a lot of ideas that began in the DOS days to the fore-front as far as scripted design goes; it takes most of its cues from a game called CyberMage (an awesome but buggy mess).  Conceptually, Half-Life is hardly innovative, and while its execution was good, I really didn't like it for all the hype (which is, granted, often a huge buzzkill for me which is why I ignore it until a game comes out unless I have access to real gameplay details).  I enjoyed Goldeneye's multiplayer far more, and Half-Life's singleplayer experience left me feeling extremely underwhelmed as well.

GreekGameManiac

Troll post.

Oh, I'm sorry if I said something that hurt your ego, princess.  This is a topic about games that we feel are overrated and why.  Few people have actually presented lists and cogent arguments.  Not my fault if I happen to do both and you disagree with my points.  If you don't like my arguments, present some of your own, maybe we can get an intelligent discussion going.

My list of over-rated retro games would look something like this:

Final Fantasy - Worst.  Grind.  Ever.  Okay, not quite as bad as Dragon Warrior, but most RPGer's think Dragon Warrior is very mediocre.

Sonic The Hedgehog - Gameplay actually quite limited.  Very pretty, though. -Limited? as in...?

Final Fantasy VII - The antithesis of VI in terms of gameplay, character development and concept; what it had in CGI cutscenes it lacked in character substance.  Plus the story was f*cking ridiculous. -Not it wasn't,i liked it

Final Fantasy X - 40 hour long RPG on rails requiring grinding, and with the most insipid characters since 7.  I'll pass, thank you very much. Um.what? it had some of the best stories in the seies

Super Mario RPG - Short, boring.  Neat combat system, though. Ok,i give

Top Gear - Top Gear 2 owns this.  I have no idea why so many people think that an Outrun clone is better than sequels that are actually much more thought out, and play like they are.

Quake - Fugly as hell, interactivity is a huge leap backward, weapons are boring, level design is very uninspired.

Super Mario 64 - Looked like Mario, didn't feel like it.  Left me feeling bamboozled.  Plus I genuinely felt that Mario did not transition well to 3D at that time. You're completely wrong.

Earthworm Jim - Stupidly hard, boring and did not feel like there was any real direction; I felt that I was punished far more than rewarded for exploration which greatly deterred me from playing.  I didn't make it past the first level.  Ironically, I nearly finished Earthworm Jim 2.

Super Street Fighter 2 SNES - framerate drops make this game very annoying, although multiplayer suite was absolutely fantastic and set this above its arcade origins.  That said, Genesis version is arguably better. -SNES ver. still cool though

Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask - The time limit made this game stupidly irritating - Nope,it made it better

Jungle Strike - boring as hell, but great concept.  The sequels are much better and its contemporaries, the Mercenaries games, were absolutely fantastic.

Resident Evil 2 - Terrible controls especially compared to other contemporaries at the time; Capcom could have learned several things from titles like Shadowman. -I thought they were fine

X-Men Arcade - Felt like moving from one boxed region to another, uninspired gameplay compared even to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtless; Konami really dropped the ball in the name of the license there.  Especially with somewhat unique contemporaries such as The Punisher which had much more to offer.

Double Dragon V - It was that bad.

Battletoads - stupidly hard, gimmicky.  The kill animations are cool when you're six, but they don't hide the fact that the game's combat system is dumb as rocks.

Mortal Kombat - it's all about the gore.  Other than special moves and finishers, the characters are carbon-copies of each other, and this really wouldn't pan out until 3.  Clearly it was all about spamming specials; otherwise, everyone would be playing the same putz who punched and kicked high and low and fired off the same uppercuts, round houses and jump kicks. -Lol.have you played any recent ones? yeah....

Final Fight - Shallow combat based around attack button spamming.  Completely backwards from superior arcade brawlers like Double Dragon.  Granted, it looked a lot prettier and Mike Haggar's suplexes and piledrivers looked pretty cool.  Granted, Knights of the Round did essentially come of this, and that game was awesome.

Gauntlet - Boooooooring.  Great quarter-killer, though.  Granted, it more or less took Rogue and put it in a more accessible domain, but after a dozen levels, you want to gouge your own eyes out.  Its later sequels - particularly Gauntlet Legends - are pretty good, though.  Seven Sorrows is also much underappreciated.

Halo 2 - Completely undid much of the awesomeness of Halo 1 in favour of dual-wielding.  The combat was poorly balanced and local multiplayer suffered from the pointlessness of disabling shields.  If you've ever played Halo with no shields and human weapons only, you'll understand what I mean.  Not to mention it was cut short so that Microsoft could have Halo titles ready for the 360 - completely the opposite of Bungie's promise that Halo 2 was the last one, and it left many gamers like myself feeling ripped off.

Ghost Recon 2 - Completely backwards; it took a brilliant thinking man's tactical shooter that focused on team work, tactical positioning and stealth, and turned into a twitch shooter.  Eff you very much.  Advanced War Fighter on the XBox sucked, and I didn't bother with the 360 version; I am liking Future Soldier quite a bit, though.  Which brings me to my next one:

Rainbow Six 3 (console, can't speak for PC) - No planning elements, no team management; all of the depth stripped right down. 

Metal Gear Solid 2 (aka Movie Gear Solid 2) - the game plays you far too much, and there's way too much emphasis on Kojima's pretensious assumptions of what tactical warfare and the relations between the participants should be.  The ending left me feeling frustrated and deflated, like the whole thing was completely pointless. Die! the story was amazing,so many plot twists! gameplay was good,too

Half-Life - Cinematic does not equal good.  Half-Life brought a lot of ideas that began in the DOS days to the fore-front as far as scripted design goes; it takes most of its cues from a game called CyberMage (an awesome but buggy mess).  Conceptually, Half-Life is hardly innovative, and while its execution was good, I really didn't like it for all the hype (which is, granted, often a huge buzzkill for me which is why I ignore it until a game comes out unless I have access to real gameplay details).  I enjoyed Goldeneye's multiplayer far more, and Half-Life's singleplayer experience left me feeling extremely underwhelmed as well.

Oh, I'm sorry if I said something that hurt your ego, princess.  This is a topic about games that we feel are overrated and why.  Few people have actually presented lists and cogent arguments.  Not my fault if I happen to do both and you disagree with my points.  If you don't like my arguments, present some of your own, maybe we can get an intelligent discussion going.

Apathetic_Prick

Lol,ok look.

[QUOTE="Apathetic_Prick"]

My list of over-rated retro games would look something like this:

Final Fantasy - Worst.  Grind.  Ever.  Okay, not quite as bad as Dragon Warrior, but most RPGer's think Dragon Warrior is very mediocre.

Sonic The Hedgehog - Gameplay actually quite limited.  Very pretty, though. -Limited? as in...?  You run, you roll, you zip around and jump here and there.  Woo hoo.  While it may have been the first high-speed platformer, this series doesn't really get interesting until Sonic and Knuckles IMO.

Final Fantasy VII - The antithesis of VI in terms of gameplay, character development and concept; what it had in CGI cutscenes it lacked in character substance.  Plus the story was f*cking ridiculous. -Not it wasn't,i liked it.  That's just beautiful.  Can you actually explain why you liked it?  Because I can go into much further detail about why I didn't.

Final Fantasy X - 40 hour long RPG on rails requiring grinding, and with the most insipid characters since 7.  I'll pass, thank you very much. Um.what? it had some of the best stories in the seies  If you think The Young and The Restless has great writing, I suppose so.  I quit partway through (probably about 2/3) because I couldn't bother with this piece of crap any further.  The gridsphere is a pretty neat leveling system, and it's cool that they used it for XIII, but it's not enough to save this game from its shallowness.

Super Mario RPG - Short, boring.  Neat combat system, though. Ok,i give Good call.

Top Gear - Top Gear 2 owns this.  I have no idea why so many people think that an Outrun clone is better than sequels that are actually much more thought out, and play like they are.

Quake - Fugly as hell, interactivity is a huge leap backward, weapons are boring, level design is very uninspired.

Super Mario 64 - Looked like Mario, didn't feel like it.  Left me feeling bamboozled.  Plus I genuinely felt that Mario did not transition well to 3D at that time. You're completely wrong.  I'm completely right.  This is how I feel about the game.  I have every right to feel this way because I've been playing Mario games since I was three.  When the NES first came to North America.

Earthworm Jim - Stupidly hard, boring and did not feel like there was any real direction; I felt that I was punished far more than rewarded for exploration which greatly deterred me from playing.  I didn't make it past the first level.  Ironically, I nearly finished Earthworm Jim 2.

Super Street Fighter 2 SNES - framerate drops make this game very annoying, although multiplayer suite was absolutely fantastic and set this above its arcade origins.  That said, Genesis version is arguably better. -SNES ver. still cool though And your point is?

Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask - The time limit made this game stupidly irritating - Nope,it made it better  No, it made it frustrating.  If the the three days didn't translate into a little over an hour, it might be cool; an hour per day is reasonable.  24 minutes, I think it was, most certainly is not.

Jungle Strike - boring as hell, but great concept.  The sequels are much better and its contemporaries, the Mercenaries games, were absolutely fantastic.

Resident Evil 2 - Terrible controls especially compared to other contemporaries at the time; Capcom could have learned several things from titles like Shadowman. -I thought they were fine By this point in time, the Dual-Shock controller existed.  There is no excuse for a consol game to have worse controls than survival horror game on PC.

X-Men Arcade - Felt like moving from one boxed region to another, uninspired gameplay compared even to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtless; Konami really dropped the ball in the name of the license there.  Especially with somewhat unique contemporaries such as The Punisher which had much more to offer.

Double Dragon V - It was that bad.

Battletoads - stupidly hard, gimmicky.  The kill animations are cool when you're six, but they don't hide the fact that the game's combat system is dumb as rocks.

Mortal Kombat - it's all about the gore.  Other than special moves and finishers, the characters are carbon-copies of each other, and this really wouldn't pan out until 3.  Clearly it was all about spamming specials; otherwise, everyone would be playing the same putz who punched and kicked high and low and fired off the same uppercuts, round houses and jump kicks. -Lol.have you played any recent ones? yeah....  Yes, I have.  Have you played the original one, which I was referring to?

Final Fight - Shallow combat based around attack button spamming.  Completely backwards from superior arcade brawlers like Double Dragon.  Granted, it looked a lot prettier and Mike Haggar's suplexes and piledrivers looked pretty cool.  Granted, Knights of the Round did essentially come of this, and that game was awesome.

Gauntlet - Boooooooring.  Great quarter-killer, though.  Granted, it more or less took Rogue and put it in a more accessible domain, but after a dozen levels, you want to gouge your own eyes out.  Its later sequels - particularly Gauntlet Legends - are pretty good, though.  Seven Sorrows is also much underappreciated.

Halo 2 - Completely undid much of the awesomeness of Halo 1 in favour of dual-wielding.  The combat was poorly balanced and local multiplayer suffered from the pointlessness of disabling shields.  If you've ever played Halo with no shields and human weapons only, you'll understand what I mean.  Not to mention it was cut short so that Microsoft could have Halo titles ready for the 360 - completely the opposite of Bungie's promise that Halo 2 was the last one, and it left many gamers like myself feeling ripped off.

Ghost Recon 2 - Completely backwards; it took a brilliant thinking man's tactical shooter that focused on team work, tactical positioning and stealth, and turned into a twitch shooter.  Eff you very much.  Advanced War Fighter on the XBox sucked, and I didn't bother with the 360 version; I am liking Future Soldier quite a bit, though.  Which brings me to my next one:

Rainbow Six 3 (console, can't speak for PC) - No planning elements, no team management; all of the depth stripped right down. 

Metal Gear Solid 2 (aka Movie Gear Solid 2) - the game plays you far too much, and there's way too much emphasis on Kojima's pretensious assumptions of what tactical warfare and the relations between the participants should be.  The ending left me feeling frustrated and deflated, like the whole thing was completely pointless. Die! the story was amazing,so many plot twists! gameplay was good,too.  GFY.  Plot means sweet all, it's purely superficial.  The gameplay was good up until the point where the game screwed with you and turned itself into a giant unskippable cutscene.  Just because Kojima is a pretensious douchebag doesn't mean that this is acceptable game design.  I neither found this rewarding nor fulfilling, and it made me strongly dislike a game that I actually was liking very much up until that point. Half-Life - Cinematic does not equal good.  Half-Life brought a lot of ideas that began in the DOS days to the fore-front as far as scripted design goes; it takes most of its cues from a game called CyberMage (an awesome but buggy mess).  Conceptually, Half-Life is hardly innovative, and while its execution was good, I really didn't like it for all the hype (which is, granted, often a huge buzzkill for me which is why I ignore it until a game comes out unless I have access to real gameplay details).  I enjoyed Goldeneye's multiplayer far more, and Half-Life's singleplayer experience left me feeling extremely underwhelmed as well.

Oh, I'm sorry if I said something that hurt your ego, princess.  This is a topic about games that we feel are overrated and why.  Few people have actually presented lists and cogent arguments.  Not my fault if I happen to do both and you disagree with my points.  If you don't like my arguments, present some of your own, maybe we can get an intelligent discussion going.

GreekGameManiac

Lol,ok look.

Just did.  You know, it's probably more effective if you condense your thoughts into a couple paragraphs than to use my massive list. It would certainly be easier to read.  And now I know why you called me a troll.  I called out your preciouses ;)  Don't worry, they're just games ;)

Lol,wtf?

Sonic: uh,ok,but i don't think it's limited for it's time,though that game is abit overrated (it didn't catch on till the sequel for me)

FFVII: Because i lkiked it at the time? i liked Cloud's story.

About SM64,are you serious? 

"oh,it didn't turn out like i wanted it in 3D,wah" what? :S

I played SMB,then SMW,tthen Yoshi's Island,then SM64,and i thought it was better than the NES & SNES ones,it was just awesome running in 3D and trying to get a star,you're just..from another planet or something.

MGS2- Your opinion,Mr.I thought it was well-written,and i never thought that "the game plays you".

FFX - It wasn't as bad as you make it sound! you SHOULDN'T have given up!

SSF2 SNES - Nothing,just wanted to say that :)

Zelda MM: Yeah,maybe they should've made days longer,but still,it was a good system,and prolonged gameplay.

MK: Well,yes,but i didn't spam specials.

Not sure about most of the others, but he was right about Halo 2. It's a bloomin awful game and stands as a perfect example of what happens when you're in it for the money and not for the game.

While they can't all be regarded as distinctly bad games, all Halo's are overrated because they each have a fog of marketing surrounding them and thousands of completely blinded sheep worshipping their every turn.

Halo 2 is the idol of hype over substance.

Not sure about most of the others, but he was right about Halo 2. It's a bloomin awful game and stands as a perfect example of what happens when you're in it for the money and not for the game.

While they can't all be regarded as distinctly bad games, all Halo's are overrated because they each have a fog of marketing surrounding them and thousands of completely blinded sheep worshipping their every turn.

Halo 2 is the idol of hype over substance.

BarbaricAvatar

that is 100% correct. halo in general is overrated perhaps even worse than nintendo games

Not sure about most of the others, but he was right about Halo 2. It's a bloomin awful game and stands as a perfect example of what happens when you're in it for the money and not for the game.

While they can't all be regarded as distinctly bad games, all Halo's are overrated because they each have a fog of marketing surrounding them and thousands of completely blinded sheep worshipping their every turn.

Halo 2 is the idol of hype over substance.

BarbaricAvatar

Halo 2 has everything going for it. Easily some of the best graphics on a console that generation. Also easily one of the best soundtracks that generation with both full-orchestral tracks and rocking guitar-driven tracks written just for this game. Tight controls and gameplay, so much so that the control scheme used has become the industry-wide standard for FPS. Fantastic multiplayer with well-designed maps and robust online play with XBox Live Arcade. And lots of weapons and vehicles at hand to use.

But most of all, it had one of the most ambitious stories that generation. I'm a huge sci-fi fan, and the story is what keeps me coming back for more. Halo 2 had arguably the best story out of all of the Halo games; full of epic action and grand in scope, full of plot twists, and intrigue and betrayal that is told through the eyes of both The Master Chief (human) and the The Arbitur (Covenant). What's great is you get the story told from both sides of the conflict, which both paths eventually merge at the end. And the music I mentioned earlier perfectly accompanies it getting you in the perfect mindset for the story or getting you all excited for an upcoming fire-fight. The only complaint I have is the cliffhanger ending we were left with.

This is coming from an old-school gamer, too. I'm not the type of gamer that spends hours upon hours on XBox Live Multiplayer, nor am I a FPS/military-shooter junkie. You'll more likely find me playing an old platformer, RPG, or shoot-em up. Halo 2 really is that damn good and easily stands-up to the hype.

[QUOTE="BarbaricAvatar"]

Not sure about most of the others, but he was right about Halo 2. It's a bloomin awful game and stands as a perfect example of what happens when you're in it for the money and not for the game.

While they can't all be regarded as distinctly bad games, all Halo's are overrated because they each have a fog of marketing surrounding them and thousands of completely blinded sheep worshipping their every turn.

Halo 2 is the idol of hype over substance.

Emerald_Warrior

Halo 2 has everything going for it. Easily some of the best graphics on a console that generation. Also easily one of the best soundtracks that generation with both full-orchestral tracks and rocking guitar-driven tracks written just for this game. Tight controls and gameplay, so much so that the control scheme used has become the industry-wide standard for FPS. Fantastic multiplayer with well-designed maps and robust online play with XBox Live Arcade. And lots of weapons and vehicles at hand to use.

But most of all, it had one of the most ambitious stories that generation. I'm a huge sci-fi fan, and the story is what keeps me coming back for more. Halo 2 had arguably the best story out of all of the Halo games; full of epic action and grand in scope, full of plot twists, and intrigue and betrayal that is told through the eyes of both The Master Chief (human) and the The Arbitur (Covenant). What's great is you get the story told from both sides of the conflict, which both paths eventually merge at the end. And the music I mentioned earlier perfectly accompanies it getting you in the perfect mindset for the story or getting you all excited for an upcoming fire-fight. The only complaint I have is the cliffhanger ending we were left with.

This is coming from an old-school gamer, too. I'm not the type of gamer that spends hours upon hours on XBox Live Multiplayer, nor am I a FPS/military-shooter junkie. You'll more likely find me playing an old platformer, RPG, or beat-em up. Halo 2 really is that damn good and easily stands-up to the hype.

:D

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="BarbaricAvatar"]

Not sure about most of the others, but he was right about Halo 2. It's a bloomin awful game and stands as a perfect example of what happens when you're in it for the money and not for the game.

While they can't all be regarded as distinctly bad games, all Halo's are overrated because they each have a fog of marketing surrounding them and thousands of completely blinded sheep worshipping their every turn.

Halo 2 is the idol of hype over substance.

BarbaricAvatar

Halo 2 has everything going for it. Easily some of the best graphics on a console that generation. Also easily one of the best soundtracks that generation with both full-orchestral tracks and rocking guitar-driven tracks written just for this game. Tight controls and gameplay, so much so that the control scheme used has become the industry-wide standard for FPS. Fantastic multiplayer with well-designed maps and robust online play with XBox Live Arcade. And lots of weapons and vehicles at hand to use.

But most of all, it had one of the most ambitious stories that generation. I'm a huge sci-fi fan, and the story is what keeps me coming back for more. Halo 2 had arguably the best story out of all of the Halo games; full of epic action and grand in scope, full of plot twists, and intrigue and betrayal that is told through the eyes of both The Master Chief (human) and the The Arbitur (Covenant). What's great is you get the story told from both sides of the conflict, which both paths eventually merge at the end. And the music I mentioned earlier perfectly accompanies it getting you in the perfect mindset for the story or getting you all excited for an upcoming fire-fight. The only complaint I have is the cliffhanger ending we were left with.

This is coming from an old-school gamer, too. I'm not the type of gamer that spends hours upon hours on XBox Live Multiplayer, nor am I a FPS/military-shooter junkie. You'll more likely find me playing an old platformer, RPG, or beat-em up. Halo 2 really is that damn good and easily stands-up to the hype.

:D

Got anything to actually say about the game itself? Or just make bad assumptions about me? As I said, I'm not the normal online/millitary-shooter fan that loves all FPS. So you can hardly catagorize me as blind sheep.

[QUOTE="BarbaricAvatar"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Halo 2 has everything going for it. Easily some of the best graphics on a console that generation. Also easily one of the best soundtracks that generation with both full-orchestral tracks and rocking guitar-driven tracks written just for this game. Tight controls and gameplay, so much so that the control scheme used has become the industry-wide standard for FPS. Fantastic multiplayer with well-designed maps and robust online play with XBox Live Arcade. And lots of weapons and vehicles at hand to use.

But most of all, it had one of the most ambitious stories that generation. I'm a huge sci-fi fan, and the story is what keeps me coming back for more. Halo 2 had arguably the best story out of all of the Halo games; full of epic action and grand in scope, full of plot twists, and intrigue and betrayal that is told through the eyes of both The Master Chief (human) and the The Arbitur (Covenant). What's great is you get the story told from both sides of the conflict, which both paths eventually merge at the end. And the music I mentioned earlier perfectly accompanies it getting you in the perfect mindset for the story or getting you all excited for an upcoming fire-fight. The only complaint I have is the cliffhanger ending we were left with.

This is coming from an old-school gamer, too. I'm not the type of gamer that spends hours upon hours on XBox Live Multiplayer, nor am I a FPS/military-shooter junkie. You'll more likely find me playing an old platformer, RPG, or beat-em up. Halo 2 really is that damn good and easily stands-up to the hype.

Emerald_Warrior

:D

Got anything to actually say about the game itself? Or just make bad assumptions about me? As I said, I'm not the normal online/millitary-shooter fan that loves all FPS. So you can hardly catagorize me as blind sheep.

I know, i just wanted to use the image. :D

It's more in reference to not seeing why Halo 2 is overrated. I'm not sure what you mean about controls becoming "industry-wide standard" as they're the same as any other FPS that came before. The only differences in H2 are that the input response is lethargic and the sensitivity adjuster doesn't help at all. It also has mouse acceleration and smoothing effects which can't be deactivated, and someone thought it would be a brilliant idea to have an off-centre crosshair. All these things together make it handle like a pregnant walrus on a skateboard with buckled wheels.

Plus it also has the fantastic dual-wield system which means you ALWAYS get confused with which button to press to drop/pick up a weapon. and with the return of being able to carry just 2 sets of weapons you need to do it often.

The story may be the most poetic intergalactic masterpiece ever written. But the gameplay itself is poorly conceived crap.

[QUOTE="BarbaricAvatar"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

Halo 2 has everything going for it. Easily some of the best graphics on a console that generation. Also easily one of the best soundtracks that generation with both full-orchestral tracks and rocking guitar-driven tracks written just for this game. Tight controls and gameplay, so much so that the control scheme used has become the industry-wide standard for FPS. Fantastic multiplayer with well-designed maps and robust online play with XBox Live Arcade. And lots of weapons and vehicles at hand to use.

But most of all, it had one of the most ambitious stories that generation. I'm a huge sci-fi fan, and the story is what keeps me coming back for more. Halo 2 had arguably the best story out of all of the Halo games; full of epic action and grand in scope, full of plot twists, and intrigue and betrayal that is told through the eyes of both The Master Chief (human) and the The Arbitur (Covenant). What's great is you get the story told from both sides of the conflict, which both paths eventually merge at the end. And the music I mentioned earlier perfectly accompanies it getting you in the perfect mindset for the story or getting you all excited for an upcoming fire-fight. The only complaint I have is the cliffhanger ending we were left with.

This is coming from an old-school gamer, too. I'm not the type of gamer that spends hours upon hours on XBox Live Multiplayer, nor am I a FPS/military-shooter junkie. You'll more likely find me playing an old platformer, RPG, or beat-em up. Halo 2 really is that damn good and easily stands-up to the hype.

Emerald_Warrior

:D

Got anything to actually say about the game itself? Or just make bad assumptions about me? As I said, I'm not the normal online/millitary-shooter fan that loves all FPS. So you can hardly catagorize me as blind sheep.

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="BarbaricAvatar"]

:D

BarbaricAvatar

Got anything to actually say about the game itself? Or just make bad assumptions about me? As I said, I'm not the normal online/millitary-shooter fan that loves all FPS. So you can hardly catagorize me as blind sheep.

I know, i just wanted to use the image. :D

It's more in reference to not seeing why Halo 2 is overrated. I'm not sure what you mean about controls becoming "industry-wide standard" as they're the same as any other FPS that came before. The only differences in H2 are that the input response is lethargic and the sensitivity adjuster doesn't help at all. It also has mouse acceleration and smoothing effects which can't be deactivated, and someone thought it would be a brilliant idea to have an off-centre crosshair. All these things together make it handle like a pregnant walrus on a skateboard with buckled wheels.

Plus it also has the fantastic dual-wield system which means you ALWAYS get confused with which button to press to drop/pick up a weapon. and with the return of being able to carry just 2 sets of weapons you need to do it often.

The story may be the most poetic intergalactic masterpiece ever written. But the gameplay itself is poorly conceived crap.

If you get confused about what button to press, or can't use you're crosshairs right, then that's due to you sucking and has nothing to do with the game itself. Millions of other people have no problems with the controls.

And you're right, Halo 2 isn't the first. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Halo: Combat Evolved was the first because other FPS before didn't have 2 analog sticks to work with. If that's the case, then it's predecessor gets the credit for that one.

Lol,wtf?

Sonic: uh,ok,but i don't think it's limited for it's time,though that game is abit overrated (it didn't catch on till the sequel for me)

FFVII: Because i lkiked it at the time? i liked Cloud's story.

About SM64,are you serious? 

"oh,it didn't turn out like i wanted it in 3D,wah" what? :S

I played SMB,then SMW,tthen Yoshi's Island,then SM64,and i thought it was better than the NES & SNES ones,it was just awesome running in 3D and trying to get a star,you're just..from another planet or something.

MGS2- Your opinion,Mr.I thought it was well-written,and i never thought that "the game plays you".

FFX - It wasn't as bad as you make it sound! you SHOULDN'T have given up!

SSF2 SNES - Nothing,just wanted to say that :)

Zelda MM: Yeah,maybe they should've made days longer,but still,it was a good system,and prolonged gameplay.

MK: Well,yes,but i didn't spam specials.

GreekGameManiac

[QUOTE="GreekGameManiac"]

Lol,wtf?

Sonic: uh,ok,but i don't think it's limited for it's time,though that game is abit overrated (it didn't catch on till the sequel for me)

FFVII: Because i lkiked it at the time? i liked Cloud's story.

About SM64,are you serious?

"oh,it didn't turn out like i wanted it in 3D,wah" what? :S

I played SMB,then SMW,tthen Yoshi's Island,then SM64,and i thought it was better than the NES & SNES ones,it was just awesome running in 3D and trying to get a star,you're just..from another planet or something.

MGS2- Your opinion,Mr.I thought it was well-written,and i never thought that "the game plays you".

FFX - It wasn't as bad as you make it sound! you SHOULDN'T have given up!

SSF2 SNES - Nothing,just wanted to say that :)

Zelda MM: Yeah,maybe they should've made days longer,but still,it was a good system,and prolonged gameplay.

MK: Well,yes,but i didn't spam specials.

IveDatedUrMom

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I do find it hilarious that a guy who named his account "IveDatedUrMom" is giving someone a lecture about online manners. lol

[QUOTE="BarbaricAvatar"]

 

It's more in reference to not seeing why Halo 2 is overrated. I'm not sure what you mean about controls becoming "industry-wide standard" as they're the same as any other FPS that came before. The only differences in H2 are that the input response is lethargic and the sensitivity adjuster doesn't help at all. It also has mouse acceleration and smoothing effects which can't be deactivated, and someone thought it would be a brilliant idea to have an off-centre crosshair. All these things together make it handle like a pregnant walrus on a skateboard with buckled wheels.

Plus it also has the fantastic dual-wield system which means you ALWAYS get confused with which button to press to drop/pick up a weapon. and with the return of being able to carry just 2 sets of weapons you need to do it often.

The story may be the most poetic intergalactic masterpiece ever written. But the gameplay itself is poorly conceived crap.

Emerald_Warrior

If you get confused about what button to press, or can't use you're crosshairs right, then that's due to you sucking and has nothing to do with the game itself. Millions of other people have no problems with the controls.

And you're right, Halo 2 isn't the first. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Halo: Combat Evolved was the first because other FPS before didn't have 2 analog sticks to work with. If that's the case, then it's predecessor gets the credit for that one.

Well maybe that's the problem. I don't play PC FPS's with a gamepad, so it's likely that's the reason why the huge compromises were made on the sensitivity and adjustability.

I freely admit when i can't do a game. I suck at most RTS's, i'm average at 3PS's and often miss glaringly obvious things in adventure/mystery games. But i know what makes a good FPS. It always starts with not having the crosshairs in a dumb place on the screen, Halo 1 managed it.

I'm not a 'fan' of the Halo series (obviously), but i'm not into mindless bashing just for the sake of it. Halo 1 while also overated managed to be a decent enough game and i can see why it has a following even though what it achieved isn't as groundbreaking as the bespectacled lambs believe.

Timesplitters 1 (and others) on the PS2 arrived over a year before Halo did, while i haven't played that myself i can't believe the developers would've had the oversight to NOT include dual-analogue control. So perhaps someone else can shed some light on that.

-

We're going to be arguing til the end of time by the way. There is nothing you can say that will change my mind that Halo 2 is a 5/10 game and Halo 1 is a 7.5/10 game. I played Halo 1 all the way through to the end because it was alright. I stuck with Halo 2 for maybe 2 hours only, not because i found it difficult or disliked the setting or story, but because the controls and aiming were so flippin horrible. I manage perfectly well with every other FPS, it's just that one that is wrong.

Metal Gear Solid 2 (aka Movie Gear Solid 2) - the game plays you far too much, and there's way too much emphasis on Kojima's pretensious assumptions of what tactical warfare and the relations between the participants should be.  The ending left me feeling frustrated and deflated, like the whole thing was completely pointless.

I have a lot of issues with old adventure (point-and-click puzzle) games in general. I won't name names, but this puzzle probably sounds familiar?:

You need to get a key to open a safe, but the key is on an electrified main. The only way to reach it is to use an shielded-cable which can only be obtained by praying to a cat god statue which requires offerings of butter (after you pray to it, not before). Of course the only way to get the butter is by turning all the clocks above the fireplace five hours backwards using the pliers you obtained from the mechanic you tricked into leaving his post when you used confetti to simulate him having a seizure (at which point he panics and runs off to the closest hospital). Oh, and the pliers won't work correctly if you don't rub static onto them by using colour-coordinated balloons...don't even get me started on how you have to get the balloons!

n.b. It's a joke.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I do find it hilarious that a guy who named his account "IveDatedUrMom" is giving someone a lecture about online manners. lol

Emerald_Warrior

Lol,ikr?

Ppl are like wtf when they see his name.

Plus he goes around and posts...stuff.

I have a lot of issues with old adventure (point-and-click puzzle) games in general. I won't name names, but this puzzle probably sounds familiar?:

 

You need to get a key to open a safe, but the key is on an electrified main. The only way to reach it is to use an shielded-cable which can only be obtained by praying to a cat god statue which requires offerings of butter (after you pray to it, not before). Of course the only way to get the butter is by turning all the clocks above the fireplace five hours backwards using the pliers you obtained from the mechanic you tricked into leaving his post when you used confetti to simulate him having a seizure (at which point he panics and runs off to the closest hospital). Oh, and the pliers won't work correctly if you don't rub static onto them by using colour-coordinated balloons...don't even get me started on how you have to get the balloons!

n.b. It's a joke.

Articuno76

I have a lot of issues with old adventure (point-and-click puzzle) games in general.

Articuno76

They rise and fall solely on the weight of their plot and the immersiveness of the worlds they're based on. As a kid I hated them (excluding Myst). But now I find them enjoyable because I've grown very fond of interactively immersive stories (e.g. 999 on the DS).

[QUOTE="Articuno76"]

I have a lot of issues with old adventure (point-and-click puzzle) games in general.

Aero5555

They rise and fall solely on the weight of their plot and the immersiveness of the worlds they're based on. As a kid I hated them (excluding Myst). But now I find them enjoyable because I've grown very fond of interactively immersive stories (e.g. 999 on the DS).

Yeah,they can be annoying.

how can anyone hate point and click adventures? monkey island, beneath a steel sky, loom, indiana jones. the list goes on and on. they stood the test of time so well

how can anyone hate point and click adventures? monkey island, beneath a steel sky, loom, indiana jones. the list goes on and on. they stood the test of time so well

bultje112

They take patience. Something alot of kids don't tend to have lol.

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

how can anyone hate point and click adventures? monkey island, beneath a steel sky, loom, indiana jones. the list goes on and on. they stood the test of time so well

Aero5555

They take patience. Something alot of kids don't tend to have lol.

Also, some aren't very entertaining. "The Dig" bored the excrement out of me and has maybe 1 or 2 lines in the entire game that can be considered amusing. I also recall "Simon the Sorceror 2" not being anywhere near as enjoyable as the first game.

While a more recent one, Machinarium, was very good but managed to disguise crucial items you needed to collect amongst other random background objects. And you'd get severely stuck. And annoyed.

how can anyone hate point and click adventures? monkey island, beneath a steel sky, loom, indiana jones. the list goes on and on. they stood the test of time so well

bultje112

This also fails to take into account other weird interface quirks these games have. Do you click the area where you want to use the item and then select the item from the menu? Or do you select the item from the menu and click the area where you want to use the item? It sounds simple, but many of these games expect you to do it in one particular way, and the worst part it is often sometimes not consistent. even within the same game This makes the puzzles even more obtuse and trial and error based because now you not only have to eliminate the item selections but also when to use the item. And this is all of course, totally arbitrary and only happens because the programmer made the game work in one very specific way rather than flexibly; Strict narrative reasons aside, It shouldn't matter if I talk to the guy first and then give him an item or give him the item first and then have the same dialogue play out.

It's not that I don't like these games rather I'm pointing out that I feel they are overated because of the bizarre-obtuse design. It's almost like the designers went out of their way to make these mechanical-interactions (I feel the word 'puzzle' is misleading to be honest) leave the player unable to progress for as long as possible instead of giving the player the core experience of working out the puzzle and then cracking it.

Going back to the Blow interview, he totally nailed it when he alluded to the fact that most of the time you aren't actually solving the puzzle in the game, but instead trying to crack the mechanical-interaction on another level that only exists between the designer and the player (not the game and the player). Then near the end of that mechanical-interaction you actually move onto to solving the puzzle itself (the closing moments I mentioned earlier).

I don't mind solving puzzles but many of these older games aren't really about puzzle-solving but interface trouble-shooting and mechanical-interactions that aren't meaningful (in the sense that they don't make sense within either our world or the game world). I'd go as far to say that only 1/5th of the time spent on what many would consider 'puzzle-solving' is actually the real thing. Fortunately Blow seems to understand the nuance of that and I expect his game will be very good because he grasps these subtle distinctions.

how can anyone hate point and click adventures? monkey island, beneath a steel sky, loom, indiana jones. the list goes on and on. they stood the test of time so well

bultje112

Sometimes they are boring,and feel archaic.

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

how can anyone hate point and click adventures? monkey island, beneath a steel sky, loom, indiana jones. the list goes on and on. they stood the test of time so well

GreekGameManiac

Sometimes they are boring,and feel archaic.

that's like saying rpg's suck because some are bad.

point and click adventure games have always been one of the best games in their time and some like full throttle are still amazing and stood the test of time VERY well

 

that's like saying rpg's suck because some are bad.

 

point and click adventure games have always been one of the best games in their time and some like full throttle are still amazing and stood the test of time VERY well

bultje112

Point and click adventure games?

Come on now man...

Maybe in THEIR TIME,just as u said

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

that's like saying rpg's suck because some are bad.

point and click adventure games have always been one of the best games in their time and some like full throttle are still amazing and stood the test of time VERY well

GreekGameManiac

Point and click adventure games?

Come on now man...

Maybe in THEIR TIME,just as u said

They're actually making a big comeback with touchscreens and DS.

[QUOTE="GreekGameManiac"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

that's like saying rpg's suck because some are bad.

point and click adventure games have always been one of the best games in their time and some like full throttle are still amazing and stood the test of time VERY well

Emerald_Warrior

Point and click adventure games?

Come on now man...

Maybe in THEIR TIME,just as u said

They're actually making a big comeback with touchscreens and DS.

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="GreekGameManiac"]

Point and click adventure games?

Come on now man...

Maybe in THEIR TIME,just as u said

GulliversTravel

They're actually making a big comeback with touchscreens and DS.